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9:00 PM
hellew
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hallo!
@R.MartinhoFernandes you should visit a dutch snackbar and order all kinds of different junkfood
@R.MartinhoFernandes also you should buy stroopwafels and eat them
 
We're navigating our way to food.
I'll try some if I find them.
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nijmegen is cool.
 
user1804599
I was there a few years ago and I know a cute guy who lives there.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yaaay you're alive!
 
9:08 PM
@Feeds ................................................................................‌​........
wtf
 
kickban the spammer!
 
Can someone bin that?
 
What is .NET and why should I even care?
 
oh ffs
 
feeds is a microsoft shill, ban it
 
9:09 PM
@Feeds U R TEH FAIL TEH IT
 
hm... are they gonna have modules in VS2015?
 
user1804599
Send an invoice to the Visual C++ team.
 
why would anyone star that
 
Oh. I know stroopwafel. They're good.
 
Ooooh they're looking to make std::asio!
 
Xeo
9:13 PM
11 messages moved to bin
9
 
user1804599
I ate one today.
 
user1804599
It was delicieux.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeeesh
@rightfold You can get those in supermarkets here.
 
user1804599
Here too.
 
user1804599
But bakery's are way better.
 
user1804599
9:14 PM
and expensiver
 
user1804599
craft > prefab
 
@Xeo would you sort out when exactly you are going to uncon already!
 
Hm... So C++17 will be completed by C++20...
 
user1804599
Hmm, I should fix the Mill lexer. It currently allows tabs inside string literals and comments.
 
@rightfold Is that so bad?
 
9:18 PM
@rightfold It nicely guarantees that I won't be using it.
 
Oh my god .NET is Java all over again
wtf
"Everything in .NET is an object and no manual memory management"
 
@Cinch The optimists call it C++17, the not-so-optimists call it C++1z.
 
@LucDanton Welp, wtf are we gonna do about all the people who can't even use C++14?
 
'We' being who?
 
@Cinch Poor MSVC users that can't afford better compilers :P
 
9:20 PM
To my knowledge, Android has no C++14 support
 
Before: "hey, C++ is bad, it evolves too slowly". After: "hey, C++ is bad, it evolves too fast"
41 mins ago, by milleniumbug
@HalfEvil Android being horrible, usual stuff.
 
@milleniumbug Mission accomplished!
 
@milleniumbug No, C++ is doing excellent
It's the people around it who cannot support it that is the problem.
 
@Cinch android's ndk has recent versions of both clang and gcc and is regularly updated
 
@Prismatic Nope.
It has GCC 4.8
Which does not have full C++14 support.
 
9:25 PM
You should try reading before you matter of factly state your assumptions
 
@Prismatic Hm, so it does have 4.9
But does it have 5.1?
 
Can you not read?
I just linked the page
 
Ctrl+F 5.1
not found
 
@Prismatic He can’t.
 
user1804599
user image
2
 
9:33 PM
Just saw the movie Manhattan (1979). It was fun :D
 
My god if everyone's going to have C++14 and C++17 support, why the fuck do online resources not teach beginners the new paradigms naturally?
 
@Cinch ...because "someone" needs to update the resources.
 
O.o My home wifi settings got synced to my brand new corporation phone with Windows Phone o.O
 
And if they're not getting paid, don't expect them to actually do it.
 
user1804599
Maybe that's because you're a moron.
 
9:36 PM
@milleniumbug Well who is this "someone" and how do I contact him?
 
This is kinda cool, but also quite scary.
 
Because if not I'm going to try my best to put together something
 
Horrible, Atom editor installs to AppData lolz
 
> Last year, French officials warned of another Facebook challenge for people to throw themselves into rivers or the sea or face buying a meal for the nominator.
 
9:43 PM
So stupid
 
user1804599
@milleniumbug MS Office for Mac puts settings files in the documents folder instead of in the folder where all other applications put their settings.
 
user1804599
@Prismatic lol
 
"Visual Studio Code" also does that
 
user1804599
Epic DarWIN.
 
You've seen the one where there's a challenge to light yourself on fire right?
 
user1804599
9:44 PM
I like the example in the dictionary:
 
user1804599
> cruft |krʌft|
noun [ mass noun ] Computing, informal
badly designed, unnecessarily complicated, or unwanted code or software: this removes all unnecessary cruft from Word documents saved as HTML.
 
Its on youtube if you want to steep yourself in the stupidity
 
user1804599
Stupid people setting themselves on fire means fewer stupid people being alive.
 
user1804599
Which is a net win for humanity.
 
user1804599
Albeit sad for the loving ones.
 
9:46 PM
No, a net win would be an education and an upbringing that instills that lighting yourself on fire for 5 minutes of fame is bad
 
@rightfold So horrible
 
user1804599
Mumble does it with certificates.
 
user1804599
@Prismatic Rather set yourself on fire than others.
 
user1804599
There's a left-wing Dutch politician who was called "a snot" by a narrator of some documentary program for which the narrator was fired and ever since my favourite right-wing weblog uses the term "snot" when referring to the politician in question.
 
user1804599
It's hilarious.
 
9:53 PM
OIC. Both Atom and VS Code use github.com/Squirrel/Squirrel.Windows
Why is "lack of UAC dialogs" even a feature I don't know
 
user1804599
Open bug reports.
 
Ven
@rightfold idk if it can
 
user1804599
Lets both open the same bug report.
 
Ven
but like, there are multiverses in agda
 
user1804599
Apparently you can do (A : Set) -> A.
 
Ven
9:54 PM
yeah
 
user1804599
So I wouldn't be surprised if Set -> T would be allowed as well.
 
Ven
says that A is a type, and you take such an argument
it's not implicit with ()
 
user1804599
However it's not the same.
 
Ven
Set -> T would mean you take a type then a T
 
user1804599
In (A : Set) -> A, A is a Set and Set is a Set1.
 
Ven
9:55 PM
yes
 
user1804599
In Set -> T, Set is a Set1 and T is a Set.
 
Ven
yes
 
user1804599
I don't know whether the LHS and RHS of -> must be of the same type.
 
Ven
that's a function type decl
you can have {A B C : Set} -> A -> B -> C
 
user1804599
Yeah but I want { A : Set1 } -> { B : Set } -> A -> B.
 
Ven
9:57 PM
you can have it
you can also infer the level
 
user1804599
Nice!
 
Ven
this is what I have in my prelude.agda:
_∘_ : ∀ {a b c} {A : Set a} {B : Set b} {C : Set c} → (B → C) → (A → B) → (A → C)
{a b c} are tree (inferred) levels
 
user1804599
What does the implementation look like?
 
Ven
and Set a is such a level
f ∘ g = λ x → f (g x) -- easy enough :-)
 
user1804599
What is Set a as opposed to just Set?
 
user1804599
Oh I see.
 
user1804599
Weird.
 
Ven
the argument is the level
 
user1804599
In Set a I expect Set to be a universe constructor.
 
user1804599
But then unapplied Set shouldn't implicitly mean Set 0.
 
Ven
10:00 PM
it basically is
 
user1804599
Can't you pass Set as a ctor?
 
@Ven Wouldn’t multiverses in the plural involve one multiverse (say, Set₁, Set₂, …), and another (Set_aleph1?), so on and so forth? :)
 
Ven
@LucDanton I can't english for the life of me :)
thought it was "multiverses"
 
user1804599
Agda's custom operators are extremely silly.
 
Ven
nope
mixfix parsing is amazing
 
user1804599
10:02 PM
No, it's terrible.
 
Ven
absolutely gorgeous
 
@Ven I’ve read 'universes' (plural) where e.g. Set₁ is one such universe. Which easily lead into my joke.
 
user1804599
Rules must be super simple and grammars must be context free.
 
user1804599
Otherwise instantly terrible.
 
Ven
:D then agda must feel very wrong to you
and don't get me started on their syntax construct :P
 
user1804599
10:03 PM
Well, if Set is the same thing as Set 0, is square also the same as square 0?
 
user1804599
Can you define default arguments for functions?
 
Ven
default arguments don't make sense in 1-ary languages.
 
user1804599
Then why does Set make sense?
 
Ven
you can have inferred ones tho
I never said it did
 
user1804599
Oh.
 
10:03 PM
I guess my joke would have worked better with transfinite stuff but I don’t know that.
 
user1804599
Is Set a special case?
 
Ven
I have no idea why it's like that, but I don't know. I asked myself the same, but got discouraged trying to look into the core code
 
@Ven Eh, it works okay in OCaml. (It does have its issues I guess.)
 
user1804599
The presence of at least one special case indicates a terrible design.
 
Ven
@LucDanton I don't think it works in ocaml :-)
 
user1804599
10:05 PM
And it makes it impossible to write any generic code anywhere.
 
Ven
I'd argue many things are broken in ocaml, and named/optional arguments are one such thing
 
They might be tied to keyword arguments, I don’t recall exactly.
 
Ven
not really. but they completly fuck up type inference
 
user1804599
In F# you can have named and default arguments but only as part of tuple arguments.
 
Which ones?
 
user1804599
10:06 PM
brb sleep
 
Ven
which ones what?
@rightfold see you on IRC :p
 
@Ven Which of named, optional or defaulted arguments fuck up type inference?
 
Ven
@LucDanton all of them :D.
 
lol
 
Ven
it forbids eta-expansion to work as intended
that's pretty awful.
I'll get to sleep as well, though :-).
 
10:08 PM
@Ven Just inference-wise as you said, right? Can you painstakingly annotate your way out of it?
 
Ven
(F#'s type inferencer is pretty much broken already, eta-expanding or eta-reducing breaks it)
@LucDanton as said, eta-expansion is one big grip
 
I get that.
 
Ven
I want \a -> f a and f to be the same
 
And is that with respect to inference?
 
Ven
say, let x = CCVector.map ((+) 1) won't compile.
I have to write let x f = CCVector.map ((+) 1) f
that's value polymorphism restriction
 
10:10 PM
Ahh, inb4 flag, out of context.
And the comment is not staying.
 
Ven
@Columbo didn't flag, but didn't laugh at it either
@LucDanton also, '_a makes me sad everytime :(
 
@Ven Anticipated that
 
@Ven Why? (Also can you answer my previous questions?)
 
I laugh about pretty much everything, so my taste of humor is shit
 
Ven
@LucDanton which one? I gave an example. for '_a, because oftentimes the function could stay polymorphic but the compiler wouldn't allow it
 
10:12 PM
3 mins ago, by Luc Danton
@Ven Just inference-wise as you said, right? Can you painstakingly annotate your way out of it?
@Ven It wasn’t helpful.
 
Ven
Alright. another example. let x = List.map (function x -> x)
x has type '_a list -> '_a list. That's bad
 
@Ven That won’t help either. How about you answer the question instead?
 
Ven
I don't get what "painstakingly annotate your way through it" means except annotating examples it failed me.
 
Type hints/annotations.
 
Ven
@LucDanton Ahhhh. Alright. Yes! Yes you can.
 
10:14 PM
When you say 'it won’t compile', I was asking if it was just due to lack of inference (as you said) or another limitation altogether.
@Ven I don’t think I’m reading that right. What type would you wish for?
 
Ven
@LucDanton 'a list -> 'a list
'_a <- the _ here means "specialized at first use"
 
Yeah, but you can’t really avoid that in a strict language no? Or at least it’s the least painful options there is.
 
Ven
if I say map \x -> x in haskell, I'll have a function List a -> List a
 
@Ven 'a list -> 'a list presumably—thanks for the '_a refresher though
 
Ven
6 mins ago, by Ven
that's value polymorphism restriction
@LucDanton whoops! fixed, thanks :-)
 
10:17 PM
@Ven As I recall, it’s strictness and impurity that makes this tricky for OCaml. I remember examples with references.
 
Ven
@LucDanton No idea! I don't think so, though, as other languages seem to get it right
 
E.g. let x = ref []; x := a : !x in some settings cannot be as polymorphic as desired; it would imply that x is a family of variables, not just a variable
 
Ven
I'll trust you on that, then.
Another example. let open_window ?title ?width ?height = [...] <- this won't work. you need an extra unit argument
 
Holy shit I should embed JS into my app
 
Ven
..because open_window;; probably doesn't mean what you want it to ;-)
 
10:20 PM
In Haskell if you do let x = newIORef [] you can use it as (1:) <$> modifyIORef x in one place and ("hello":) <$> modifyIORef x in another and it’s all good (I fucked up the syntax nvm)
 
Ven
Alright, it's time for me to go get some sleep, almost 1am!
 
@Cinch What? Has your app done something so horrible you feel a need to punish it or something?
 
@Ven Ciao.
 
Ven
@LucDanton if you have any correction, please ping, I'll read my "messages"
 
Nah I think we covered all angles.
 
10:21 PM
@JerryCoffin No but I've been looking for a reliable scripting language to embed in my app
Maybe JS might be a good idea
 
@Cinch That doesn't seem very likely, but I guess stranger things have undoubtedly happened.
 
@JerryCoffin But Lua is currently lacking a JIT for its most recent versions and probably won't receive one.
Whereas JS has already more than 1 JIT
By two very active companies
 
@Cinch Er, if by that you mean that LuaJIT is the seminal implementation of a dynamic JIT upon which basically all other JITs for dynamic languages are based.
 
@Puppy I don't even
LuaJIT was for a specific version of Lua and it's not going to support later versions, from what I've seen
 
Lua hasn't really changed much.
and LuaJIT is stonkingly fast.
 
10:25 PM
@Puppy LuaJIT is out of date because Lua's done a split with 5.3 similar to Python 2/3
 
eh
it's a FOSS project, just fork it.
 
@Puppy You're talking to me, hello?
I know nothing
 
I know
that's why I'm telling you shit
 
@Puppy How the heck am I supposed to write the JIT for the new Lua 5.3 features?
You tell me?...
It's probably not going to happen...
 
a) look at existing codebase
b) learn shit about JITs
c) just fuckin' do it and if you make a bad mistake, just try again.
 
10:27 PM
@Puppy Maybe I should
Hmm... could be an interesting idea
 
@Cinch Or you might consider using llvm-lua (though I haven't checked, and don't know what version of lua it supports).
 
Ell
last time I checked llvm ir isn't suitable for JIT'ing
but I hope I'm wrong
@Cinch python? :3
 
@Ell If by that you mean that LLVM has shipped a JIT as part of it for several years and just finished a massive overhaul of their JIT, then yes.
 
Mono is not that bad to embed.
Dartlang is an interesting choice.
I wonder if you can use HHVM/Hacklang.
 
Ell
Mono also would be a good choice
I'd go with mono actually
 
10:41 PM
The problem I have with mono is that it is not "scripting", and is difficult to have an interactive console.
 
> llvm-lua git HEAD - Requires LLVM & Clang 3.1 release, download here.
forget i
 
Ell
@Nican mono has an interactive c sharp shell
 
World's tiniest koala.
 
Ell
there probably are ones for other languages
 
10:44 PM
today I played the Battlestar Galactica board game.
 
Ell
today I played bioshock infinite on linux
 
@Puppy Were you secretly a cylon?
 
Ell
your prayers did nothing
 
@Nican No, I was not.
 
@Puppy How was it?
 
10:45 PM
the President was a Cylon who promptly executed me.
@Nooble Fun.
 
@Puppy You seem like a trustworthy guy.
 
we came pretty close to winning
 
11:12 PM
1
Q: Saying that a user is in "top 100%" isn't nice

2mkgzColin is here for the badges, not reputation. And that's okay. Why rub it in by saying he's not even in top 99% of users? It's like saying "he graduated in top 100% of his class". I suggest not showing percentages below 50%.

^^ lol
 
@Mysticial you know this guy has nothing going wrong in his life if he takes the time to complain about that
fkn srsly
 
not complaining
just a suggestion
(you can tell they're not the same user)
he just stumbled upon it
 
so sleepy
 
@Mysticial I think instead of percentages, they should use parts per million. Much more convenient than something like: 0.02%.
 
@JerryCoffin Hey guess what, I'm in the top 100%! I think you are too!
 
11:27 PM
@Mysticial ...and I'm unique, just like everybody else!
 
All people are unique, but some are more unique than others.
 
Xeo
@Puppy I suggest sleep.
 
@Mysticial Not really. Unique is an absolute--if you're not absolutely unique, then you're just not unique.
 
The top 100% of Ratatas
 
11:52 PM
what the fuck
I looked up my ip address on google
and it ends in .0
?!?!
 

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