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10:00 AM
In retrospect, lots of functions should've just allowed multiple arguments. Hello std::max
 
my biggest "C++ should've done this" thing I have right now is C++ shouldn't have had iterator pairs, but range objects
C++ would be a lot more tersely composable if that was the case
 
That and modules.
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara That one does allow multiple arguments :P
 
C++ should have done a lot of things differently.
 
(although you have to use an initializer list, it's not variadic)
 
10:02 AM
but unless you want to spend your lives campaigning the Committee and failing, all you can do is contribute to Wide :P
 
@AndyProwl Now it does :) but it still sucks
 
Should I use a hash function to calculate the index or a map?
 
Yeah, C++11
 
@Elvisjames Use a data structure for it, so the latter.
 
@orlp Don't forget to sprinkle algorithms all over it
 
ok?
rip tony
 
But that would need me to do overhead calculations to map the keys to the values. And I have a huge amount of data. Wouldn't it make the program use more memory?
 
sbi
@AMostMajestuousCapybara For that, little boy, you severely lack in size.
 
I have decided to no longer actively participate in here as much as I used to, so therefore I voluntarily give up my status as Room Owner. @Xeo, @R.MartinhoFernandes, @CatPlusPlus, @Rapptz, @FredOverflow and any other room owners I forgot.
11
 
sbi
10:05 AM
@TonyTheLion Uh oh. The old folks are leaving, aren't we?
 
 
morning everyone else
 
@sbi Size isn't everything
 
@TonyTheLion Without the lion who shall rule the jungle now?
 
@TonyTheLion But why :(
 
10:06 AM
@TonyTheLion You make it sound like you haven't already substantially dropped off your activity in here :P
 
sbi
@AMostMajestuousCapybara No, identity is also important. However, you seem to lack that, too.
 
@Puppy I did yes
 
I nominate Vlad for replacement Lounge owner.
 
I nominate myself for owner of the world.
 
(seen 46 minutes ago; still no posts!)
 
10:07 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Is that a record?
 
> It's my favourite pattern from the ones I know of so far. Really cleans ↑ the code.
gamedev reddit on FSMs
 
@sbi identity is one of the things I carry in truckloads, actually
 
I hate getting ↑ every morning
 
@AlexM. Get a girlfriend.
I heard they like ↑.
 
sbi
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Identity is something you want to have in quality, not in quantity.
 
10:08 AM
@sbi No, you don't understand.
@sbi His ego is so big he needs those trucks.
 
To part is the lot of all mankind. The world is a scene of constant leave-taking, and the hands that grasp in cordial greeting to-day are doomed ere long to unite for the last time when the quivering lips pronounce the word “Farewell.”
It is a sad thought, but should we on that account exclude it from our minds? May not a lesson worth learning be gathered in the contemplation of it? May it not, perchance, teach us to devote our thoughts more frequently and attentively to that land where we meet but part no more?
 
sbi
@orlp See, ego is another one of those things where having too much is seen as a deficiency.
 
@sbi On the Internets, I value the latter more :)
 
You can have a negative identity in huge quantities
 
sbi
10:12 AM
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Did I mention you're lacking?
 
Did I mention this is not relevant
 
No.
 
@sbi like STDs?
 
9 hours ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
but I'm not an algorithms person (fuck 'em)
 
sbi
10:13 AM
@Mr.kbok No. With STDs, even a low quantity is a deficiency.
 
a high quantity is still a bigger deficiency though
 
@TonyTheLion wut
 
Sugar?
 
@sbi Oh yeah. It's more like cholesterol then.
 
10:15 AM
Aw no standard partial specialization of std::hash for std::pair
 
> master cmkle
Commander of the Cod army
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara you should comment it there :)
 
sounds fishy
 
@AndyProwl suck
 
@AndyProwl lol yeah
 
sbi
10:16 AM
@Mr.kbok ISTR cholesterol being restored to "non-critical" in the US last week. After decades of being looked down upon, I think it's now officially rehabilitated.
Anyway, I need to go back to work.
I am, however, very grateful for having chanced upon the very moment when one of the earliest users of the room was stepping down.
 
Is there anyone here that would be willing to help me with my research by running a profiling program? I can send you the source (~450 LOC so you can verify it doesn't format your harddrive), you compile it and it'll run for like 1 minute and then you can send me back the performance information it generates. Then I can make more pretty graphs like this: i.imgur.com/5ZArF1z.png
 
Isn't Anything in huge quantity a deficiency?
 
@BartekBanachewicz There was a proposal but apparently it didn't make it to C++14
 
@Elvisjames Wrong way around mate
 
@sbi well he isn't really leaving
 
10:17 AM
@Elvisjames Money?
 
@orlp Yeah, in principle. Requirements?
 
Oct 15 '10 at 9:10, by Rin
yep not only US - poland here ;)
woah
 
sbi
@BartekBanachewicz Indeed. I was over-dramatizing it.
 
@Elvisjames Are you testing your Markov chains generator again?
 
@Puppy Too much in too little time and it drives you crazy
 
10:18 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit x64 and g++
 
Poland can into Lounge
 
@Elvisjames Only if you're an inferior person
 
@Mr.kbok With f :: us -> us you end up doing a lot of let a' = f a in … chaining.
 
@LucDanton Yeah, Bartek did the explaining in the Haskell room.
 
10:20 AM
Whoa, I had used a Markov chain but never knew it was called that
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit don't care
 
@orlp I'll MinGW it up for you then
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit git clone https://github.com/orlp/pdqsort && cd pdqsort && g++ -std=c++11 -O2 -m64 -march=native profile.cpp && a.exe > profile.txt
should run for like a minute
 
What if you have so much money that you can buy everything there is and still have much left?
 
@Elvisjames That's impossible.
@Elvisjames Think about how money works.
 
10:22 AM
Then you can never have too much money.
 
So money isn't a valid entity in this context.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh you don't have git installed.
 
why would I you git
 
you can download it from github though
 
10:24 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Are you an anti-git activist or something
 
@TonyTheLion wait what. Best of luck!
 
Hello @Mr.kbok
 
@Mr.kbok I'm a GitSnub
 
@sehe He didn't even say why :(
 
Hello
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Good one.
 
10:25 AM
@AMostMajestuousCapybara Does he need to? I can think of a few reasons
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit May I ask you why?
 
@sehe No he does not, obviously. I'm just caring.
 
¬_¬ fix one unit test, break three others... fucking Mondays
 
> profile.cpp:1:0: sorry, unimplemented: 64-bit mode not compiled in
lul
@Mr.kbok never needed it yet
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara I'm not, really. I think I half intuit it (he grows up :))
 
user1804599
10:28 AM
I need a good alternative to S-expressions.
 
> testing time: 80mks
 
ok I got a build. still got a MinGW 64-bit version half-available from my trials and tribulations on Saturday
 
In meter-kilogram-second?
 
@sehe Does that suggest a) we should all eventually leave b) you/sbi/jerry have yet to grow up? :)
@LucDanton milli-kilo-seconds aka seconds
 
Wow i finally have gcc 4.9.2
 
10:30 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you don't have 64 bit mingw?
 
1 min ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
ok I got a build. still got a MinGW 64-bit version half-available from my trials and tribulations on Saturday
 
I don't really dev on this machine
 
hmm
most curious
 
ah didn't see that
 
10:30 AM
I do dev on servers at work
 
I have a bunch of unresolved externals, but they're all functions that are implemented, and furthermore, they're scattered all over my codebase, instead of centered in one or two files that I might have broken.
 
user1804599
Significant newlines (good) and no significant indentation (good).
 
@райтфолд I'm looking into whitespace significant alternative for s-expr
 
@AMostMajestuousCapybara I mean that some people will eventually leave. And I should grow up
 
@Mr.kbok he is mostly like "I have no reason to move to git" and was ignoring whatever everyone was trying to say for like forever. The discussion always ends in a dead end. You can look in the transcript for his reasoning.
 
10:31 AM
I've only seen false posiive unresolved externals when a file fails to compile
 
samesies, except that instead of a bunch it’s just the one
 
@BartekBanachewicz I have no reason to move to svn or hg either, but I would install both on my machine on day 0 either way.
 
@BartekBanachewicz There is really no reason to jump in five minutes later to be a turd and make shit up
 
user1804599
@orlp The only significant whitespace I like is whitespace to separate tokens and newlines that act as statement terminators.
 
@Puppy You may have changed the signature in header and forgot to update the source. (Or vice versa.)
 
10:32 AM
but lightness said he doesn't do dev on that machine so I can understand
 
user1804599
Fuck significant indentation.
 
Significant indentation is good.
 
@StackedCrooked Then the compiler would error on the definition, and I have no in-source errors.
 
You make it sound like having an opinion that nobody's convinced you to change is the same as being stubborn and "a dead end"
But then anyone who doesn't do it Bartek's way is evil so..
 
pussy
 
10:33 AM
@Puppy Ah, I thought they were free functions.
 
also, I have a list of changes since last version here and none of the unresolved externals are actually involved in those changes.
@StackedCrooked Some of them are, but not all.
 
A full rebuild sometimes magically fixes those.
 
tried it
I might roll with a clean and then rebuild
 
@StackedCrooked is it ok if I run a profiling program on coliru for 1 min? github.com/orlp/pdqsort
@LightnessRacesinOrbit thx a ton
 
10:34 AM
@orlp It will timeout after 20 seconds.
 
@StackedCrooked nvm then
 
@orlp though a minute is clearly underestimating things. My machine is plenty fast paste.ubuntu.com/10370278 OS details: paste.ubuntu.com/10370280
 
@sehe It doesn't get faster as your machine becomes faster, it is timed.
 
Then way did you say "a minute"? It seemed at least 3 minutes
 
10:36 AM
@sehe Because I misremembered
 
BOOST_TEST_MESSAGE & affiliated don’t seem to have an effect anymore. Tried with --log_level=all or --log_level=message. I’m so confused.
 
@orlp You could split it up, no?
 
@sehe I used to profile this a lot with only my thing enabled. Now that it has heapsort and std::sort enabled it takes 3x as long
 
> my thing
:)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, but effort
 
10:37 AM
@orlp just did effort for you bro
now do effort for yourself! in my honour
 
@sehe would you mind putting it on gist/someplace else? have to log in for plaint text download >.<
 
user1804599
 
@orlp loooool
Anyway, dude, View Source....
 
@райтфолд yes
 
oh they store it in a pre
 
10:38 AM
because you know you want else if and all that
 
user1804599
@AlexM. what would it translate to?
 
I know that the --log_level option is getting into the runner, since with all the successful checks do appear.
 
user1804599
@AlexM. no, else if is shit.
 
since it had line numbers I thought they'd put that in the source
 
user1804599
I want cond for that.
 
10:38 AM
lol a language without else if
I mean a language without else if that looks like something that should have else if
 
user1804599
else if is horrible.
 
user1804599
The conditions don't line up.
 
user1804599
You want switch true instead.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why not, though. Git aims to fix a lot of problems with source control, and it does it well IMO. OTOH if you never encountered those problems (eg you work alone), then you have no reason to prefer it to svn or whatever
 
@orlp copy paste dude. No I will not gist it "or something"
 
10:40 AM
@sehe I already have it covered
@sehe thanks a ton either way
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit actually, just "fork" / "clone" or whatever, ^A^C pronto! /cc @orlp
@orlp :D
 
We're not allowed to give feedback on downvotes any more! It has been made crystal clear by the Stack Overflow leaders that commenting to explain a downvote is not allowed. They have gone to great lengths with filtering software to make sure that we don't. So, yeah. — Lightness Races in Orbit 50 secs ago
hehe
 
@Mr.kbok I suppose.
Also I've just realized fn a = a & x +~ 1 is just fn = x +~ 1 and that composes better
into fn = (x +~ 1) . (y +~ 2)
 
user1804599
Gorgeous.
 
10:42 AM
@BartekBanachewicz opinion on Arrows and when they are useful plz.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum not needing to lift?
 
@BartekBanachewicz what do you mean?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Surely that's only true if a is always all 1.
 
@Puppy what? It's just pointfree notation.
 
user1804599
x [ y z ] would be (x y z).
 
user1804599
10:44 AM
Very nice.
 
& = flip ($)
 
ah right.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I take that means you don't even lift?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum as far as I know, a >>= liftM b = a >>> b
 
Lounge<Bodybuilding>
 
10:45 AM
but I don't really know much about arrows
 
@BartekBanachewicz you're supposed to take them to the knee
 
Lounge<(a -> b) -> f a -> f b>
 
@sehe forgive me for being paranoid, but you did use -O2 -m64 -march=native, right?
 
@orlp of course just s/g++/clang++-3.5/.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Where is the arrow?
 
10:46 AM
allright thanks
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh ok. I just saw Yampa and I'm wondering if it's worth using/learning
 
@sehe you don't happen to have libc++ enabled as default for clang, right?
@sehe just regular libstdc++
 
@orlp I don't think so (it doesn't get used unless specified anyways)
 
ok good
 
@Mr.kbok that one thing was irrelevant to arrows. Ben had something else in mind
@BenjaminGruenbaum I suppose it's always worth learning.
At least to get an understanding
 
10:47 AM
Yeah, that's what I thought.
 
Ah, right. The other kind of arrow was missing.
 
Where can I find people talking about c++?
 
nowhere, ever.
 
@orlp However: here's with google's tcmalloc like so: clang++-3.5 -std=c++11 -O3 -m64 -march=native profile.cpp -ltcmalloc && ./a.out > profile-clang-tcmalloc.txt
@Elvisjames in the gossip magazines
 
WOOO UBUNTU BABY!
 
10:51 AM
oh god
 
eh reading TGLGJ#2 notes brings back memories
I'm such a terrible optimist
but maybe we could try again?
 
Xeo
I wanna go back to my hobby project code, that one works at least ;_;
 
@BartekBanachewicz wut
 
@Elvisjames Java room
 
@Xeo yeah I suppose people have picked up a lot of hobby projects in the meantime
but that might just be a good reason to do something else
to break the routine
 
Xeo
10:53 AM
I'm always tinkering with some hobby project.
 
@sehe The Great Lounge Game Jam #2
 
Xeo
As in, I have one thing or the other cooking in the background
 
yeah me too
 
hmm
 
10:53 AM
but I'd still like to do a jam I think
 
do I hold the Lounge record for the longest-lasting hobby project?
 
Hi, random question: Do you guys create a partition to share code between Windows and Linux?
 
it's just the last ones were such spectacular failures
 
@BartekBanachewicz ... Of course
 
10:54 AM
I am not sure what I'd need to change to make another one happen
 
Does knowing a lower level programming language make the programmer superior?
 
@Elvisjames no.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit nope
 
@Elvisjames depends if they ever use it; otherwise no
 
@Puppy you're still heating your room cracking SHA2?
 
10:54 AM
I think teaming up in pairs worked out well
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think it was a matter of being too long, too short notice, and timed when people weren't available.
@sehe No, I was actually thinking about Wide.
 
:D
 
Well what if we started building up for the next one about a month before
 
Xeo
My problem with game jams is my lack of ideas.
 
I've been working on it on and off (mostly on but definitely sometimes off) for five years.
 
10:55 AM
@sehe lol
 
Oh is there a game jam right now?
 
so I was just wondering if anybody had me beat
 
@Cinch I'm thinking about organizing another one
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol, I saw that too, but managed to refrain from commenting:)
 
@MartinJames I almost "corrected" it in an edit
 
10:55 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Ah, nice!
 
@Xeo team up with someone who feels worse at coding but better at rapid design
 
But where?
 
@Cinch Lavarre, France
 
the thing about teams is
 
Xeo
10:56 AM
I'm also bad at quick coding :P
I like to take my time
 
you need to find somebody who wants to use the same technology stacks as you do :P
 
Is there a reason they're all herding programs?
 
@Cinch yes. We randomized a theme.
 
oh god
 
well 3 themes, and you're supposed to pick 2
 
10:57 AM
let's face it bartek, you and I would probably make a shit team
we'd spend all our time bickering about what language to use
 
@Puppy We could write in Lua vOv
 
Ooh, Lua!
 
interesting suggestion.
 
it's all about wanting to make games, fuck stacks, languages and technology
 
that could work for me
it's been years since I've used Lua so I might be a little rusty
 
10:57 AM
What is your guys opinion on web dev?
 
if me and @Puppy could team up for the jam I can believe anything can happen
 
okeydokey
well if you agree to team up with me, then I'm in, just to see what happens
 
@Puppy I was thinking about getting Hate ready for the jam, but I'm not saying no. You're the first on the list then I suppose.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah... But then I had to use the JNI for a hackathon and then it got ugly
 
10:59 AM
There's still one thing to get out of the way though
like having it actually happen
 

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