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user406009
4:00 PM
I could barely keep myself from laughing out loud when he congratulated us on solving the "difficult problems in his class".
 
user406009
The only difficult part was following his design requirements.
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer When I was in college, I was contrary enough to intentionally ignore what they wanted, or even figure out what they wanted, then intentionally write answers that were correct, but guaranteed to piss them off. Sad, but somehow it made me feel superior at the time.
 
user406009
@KhaledAKhunaifer Getting high remarks is also indicator of how much time you invest.
 
user406009
How much time will you spend memorizing what they want you to memorize.
 
user406009
How much time you spend writing up good solutions, etc, etc.
 
user406009
4:05 PM
I think that grades are a reasonable indication of effort.
 
user406009
And that does tie into the "effort narrative" businesses sometimes use to justify preferring college graduates.
 
user406009
"We like college graduates because they have proven the ability to work on a long term 4 year goal ..."
 
hello world
 
@Elyse How does that even work? I mean... Why?
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Think of like a coffee shop.
 
user406009
4:12 PM
You can put that behind your counter.
 
user406009
And get some tweets because people like fiddling with things.
 
user406009
People will just tweet only to see the counter go up.
 
user406009
Humans are strange like that.
 
$340 that's really expensive
 
user406009
4:14 PM
That's why it's so expensive. It's not a toy. It's a business tool.
 
@Lalaland you could build a to-, erhm, business tool for far less than that
 
Oh, wow, I need to learn how to manipulate people. Why am I not devious? :(
 
@FilipRoséen-refp By personal standards, yes. By business standards, not so much.
 
user406009
@FilipRoséen-refp The first rule of pricing is that things cost how much people are willing to pay for them, not how much they cost to produce.
 
@JerryCoffin true, but still; any company with a tech department should just build it in-house. brings the staff together over something fun (but still useful) to spend a few hours with every week
 
user406009
4:15 PM
And businesses are willing to shell out lots of cash.
 
not that it should take too long, but still
 
user406009
@FilipRoséen-refp The market for that is small businesses. Those companies are lucky to have a dedicated IT person.
 
user406009
Also, making physical products like that is not exactly easy. That really cool display thing is not trivial to make.
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer Who gave you this advice?
Because, really, what I think good advice would look like is to engage with the educators about that. The goal is to have education that works. Be sure not to confuse "engage" with "argue". You can provide genuine feedback ("I thought question 5 was confusing", "You could make it clearer what is expected", "I understand now you wanted to check whether students understood X/actually did Y; I think Z would be a clever way to check that, that doesn't waste as much time for grading" etc.)
 
user406009
@ElimGarak I think someone did a similar trick with github stars before.
 
user406009
4:17 PM
They made a site with a really cool animation whenever their repo got starred.
 
user406009
Instant stars came in.
 
1. Get 5$ rPi 2. Get 10$ dot display 3. Hook them together in a day 4. Profit, maybe
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus You have to make it look nice.
 
user406009
That costs additional time and money.
 
5. Buy a 10$ plastic case
 
4:18 PM
5. You ask Puppy to do the design
6. Woof
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer I'm sceptic on the "100% correct". I've seen you declare this kind of fact too often in this lounge, if I'm not misremembering
 
7. Remove duplicate point 5.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Anyways, the real experts in manipulating people go into mobile gaming.
 
@CatPlusPlus mhm, agreed.
 
user406009
That's where the real money is for scamming.
 
4:19 PM
@AndyProwl Nah, bby, merge conflict, squeeze out cat's request
 
no idea how I would build such a thing
even considering the hints above
 
@Lalaland Tell people raw electronics are now fashionable and hipster and you don't
 
@JerryCoffin at the time? :)
 
with the nice flipping numbers etc
 
user406009
@AndyProwl Well, the display is the hard part.
 
user406009
4:20 PM
Those flipping numbers things are not trivial.
 
@sehe I raised my paper for inspection, the result came back with the correct answer to the question, it was an exact replica, the two last lines were a replica but swapped.
 
Each year, around late December, people start asking for people to not use firecrackers because dogs are scared. Each year, around late December, people use firecrackers anyways.
 
user406009
If I was them, I would look through the list of available patents.
 
user406009
I am sure there is something similar to that.
 
OK, one more present to buy tomorrow.
 
4:21 PM
@KhaledAKhunaifer yes?
 
Then packaging. FML.
Somebody make Christmas go away.
 
I'll have to pack as well tomorrow
not looking forward
 
@sehe A PhD student who studied at MIT, worked on double researches for Harvard medical school, and missed 5.0 by 0.1 because at the last semester had to miss classes to attend interviews for a job.
 
Just buy everyone socks.
 
user406009
@wilx We clearly need the Grinch.
 
4:22 PM
I don't have presents to buy
I bought them all for myself
 
@Lalaland Totally.
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer yes?
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer He's such a prodigy, you don't even know his name. And assume we don't either.
 
@AndyProwl Lucky you!
 
I'm gonna buy myself a gaem and a pizza
 
4:22 PM
I basically bought everybody some book. Except kids, of course.
 
I'm going to buy Cat a game. His own game. And gift it to him.
 
@wilx Well, there are downsides :D
 
user406009
@ElimGarak No! That will ruin people's plans to only own one type of sock.
 
buy my games
6
 
user406009
Cursing them to the evil fate of sock matching.
 
4:23 PM
Ahahah, that's what I'm going to do, I'm going to gift Cat's game to people.
 
@AndyProwl Yeah, well, yeah.
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer Yup, just a regular human, really.
 
@AndyProwl well you can't std::move without std::forward :P
 
4:25 PM
@sehe no!
 
@TonyTheLion I need std::backward :(
 
@AndyProwl You can std::chrono::sleep instead
 
@AndyProwl std::back_inserter
 
lol
 
@ElimGarak such the human case.
 
4:26 PM
@sehe I still have the same tendencies, but I think I'm better at keeping them under control. :-)
 
@ElimGarak i support this decision
 
@TonyTheLion I'm not that desperate yet :D
 
@CatPlusPlus are you going to set a crazy 90% discount this sale? :D
 
Everything's a back inserter if you're brave enough
14
 
> My research could be summed up as an exploration into multi-institution electronic medical records.I also did considerable coursework in Finance, Management, and Technology Strategy.
 
4:27 PM
@AlexM. 50
 
As @wilx would describe, "decent, but meh".
 
50% hmm
sorry, buy I'll buy hatoful boyfriend
that one will be 51%
 
@ElimGarak \o/
 
rename to hateful boyfriend, replace the pigeon with bartek. empressive
 
@Lalaland Somewhat non-trivial, but used to be widely used in alarm clocks that cost a twentieth what they're charging for this (even ignoring 30 years or so of inflation).
 
4:29 PM
expressive.
 
on a more srs note I want to buy assassins' creed rogue and freedom cry if they're priced decently enough
and dungeon lords if it drops below 5 eur
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin Yeah, that's why I said there are probably old patents that could help you with this.
 
user406009
Or I guess you could just take one of those clocks apart.
 
FF7 original fans raging all the time about SquareEnix development updates, in the end, FF7 remake is released, everyone end up buying it.
 
@Lalaland With a sledgehammer!
 
4:31 PM
@Lalaland Been there, done that. Personally, I think if I were going for a retro look, I'd build one with nixie tubes instead.
 
@AlexM. Also we've added new map
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin Those look really expensive.
 
And water
 
I'll download it and check it out
 
Build will be up soonish
 
4:33 PM
@JerryCoffin that looks like a piece of art
 
@CatPlusPlus Every DLC ever
 
I'd gift it to a couple of friends that I played worms with but without solid multiplayer they'd probably have no incentive to play :<
woot you changed the icon too
 
We're not making DLCs
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus You clearly need to add in microtransactions.
 
Ven
@AlexM. ah, I thought there was a steam sale going on
 
4:35 PM
@Ven not yet
 
Ven
1 hour, 24 minutes and 48 seconds remain until the Steam Holiday Sale.
 
what where?!
 
user406009
1 penny per bullet.
 
It starts 10AM PDT
 
user406009
With extra free bullets when you tweet, like or share.
 
Ven
4:36 PM
@AlexM. I check steamdb.info for all the pricing stuff (steamdb.info/sales for the sales)
 
bullet for every citizen
 
I am ready
I want cossacks back to war
Im waiting for it to drop from 4 eur to 2
 
@JerryCoffin hehe
 
@Lalaland In small lots, they're around $10 apiece, though price varies quite a bit depending on size and such.
 
rip 15 products that are on sale this week
 
user406009
4:39 PM
@JerryCoffin 10 per digit? Or 10 per clock?
 
user406009
10 per clock would be pretty cheap.
 
Kinda silly putting up weeklong sales when a big one is about to start
 
Ven
@KhaledAKhunaifer I wanted to buy it, but now that I learned it's going to be episodic, I don't want to anymore
 
@AlexM. 4eur, so expensive
 
yes
 
4:41 PM
> apiece
do u even read bruh
 
@Ven you know what is wrong with FF7 fans, they take the developer notes and imagine it in the final product using assumptions.
 
Ven
@KhaledAKhunaifer not sure what you're referring to here
 
guys just play underrail
and forget other games
FF7 is pretty much the call of duty of rpgs
 
except mine
 
yea cat's game is also cool
 
4:45 PM
how is it selling?
 
Decent, but meh
 
how many copies?
 
you're getting few reviews :<
 
Sales data is confidential
 
4:46 PM
@Lalaland Per digit.
 
We signed contracts with some other shoppes and maybe that'll boost shit up a little
 
user406009
@JerryCoffin Still not that bad.
 
Ven
@AlexM. now that's fucking rude
 
@Ven the director decided to make it episodic because it the complete story cannot fit into a single installment, and the fans feedback hardly stated that they don't want any part of the story cut.
 
Ven
@KhaledAKhunaifer I hardly believe that, fwiw.
 
4:48 PM
The ~~director~~ decided to make it episodic so they can sell more copies
hth
 
@Lalaland Yeah--if you're going to build something like this that's purely to look cool, then I think it should really look cool. At least to me, the other just says "cheap alarm clock".
 
@CatPlusPlus What are the ~~ supposed to mean?
 
Games are not films no matter how much game industry wishes so (for whatever stupid reason)
 
underrail sure doesn't shy away from trying to make you play it multiple times
 
new theme
 
4:50 PM
I'm 10 hours in and already closed around 4 storylines forever due to my choices
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus Some people like the filmlike games.
 
user406009
People have different preferences.
 
@Ven you don't want the whole story in one crappy installment.
 
user406009
It's sorta like one of those choose your adventure novels.
 
Ven
yes I do :v
 
4:50 PM
@Lalaland Not about that
 
user406009
It's a film with very minimal choices.
 
@JohanLarsson haaa gaay
 
yeah pretty pride
 
@Ven original FF7 exist on the store, you can buy it and play it.
 
Although if your interactive thing has very little interaction then idk maybe call it a film and have your dreams come true~~
 
4:52 PM
the best FF VII game was crisis core
because it wasn't ugly
and had great music
 
Ven
@KhaledAKhunaifer I have it
 
user406009
@CatPlusPlus Didn't you enjoy the Stanley Parable?
 
user406009
That was a "low interaction" game.
 
user406009
Untertale isn't all too focused on gameplay either.
 
@Lalaland I don't know what you're talking about
 
@Lalaland Sure it is, that's like half of the point
Gameplay is integral not a keypress that takes you from cutscene to cutscene
In both cases you mentioned
 
user406009
Huh, the anti-optimization people are going to create a new compiler specifically so their UB-filled programs can work "properly".
 
user406009
cc @sehe
 
@KhaledAKhunaifer did you play dissidia
I think it's the best ff game that doesn't follow the ff recipe
 
4:59 PM
That's not anti-optimisation people, that's anti-unpredictability people
Crypto code needs to be sound and verifiable, UB destroys that
 
@AlexM. nope, but dissidia has the best music off FF series, they even redone them in a symphonic version
 
Crypto needs optimisations but they need to be predictable
 
hi everyone!
 
@AlexM. Umatsu music is a masterpiece, people don't realize this, because it was limited by the limitations of the medium. the symphonic version of his music is next to chinese war symphonies
 
UB is garbage and less of it is always better
 
5:06 PM
math has UB
 
what's the "technical" term for an automatic instantiation of a class? I forgot and I've tried googling "implicit instantiation", "implied instantiation". For example, if i have an integer, let's say 10 and a variable of class polar coordinates and I want to add 10 to polar coordinates, assuming i have all the proper overloaded functions defined, what's it called when 10 is automatically converted to polar coordinates for the addition?
 
clearly it's not a bad concept if math can deal with it :P
 
Clearly that is completely irrelevant
 
@TriHard8 implicit conversion
 
5:07 PM
@ScarletAmaranth thanks!
 
@ScarletAmaranth Like the ability to choose a number?
 
@Mikhail heh? like x / b for x, b from R invokes UB on b == 0
 
Also dividing by 3
 
Then add 1, then throw half of it into the sea.
 
I was going for the Axiom of Choice
@ScarletAmaranth Also on floating point this works as expected and on integers this triggers an error as expected, so its very well defined behavior
 
user406009
5:12 PM
@ScarletAmaranth That's easily solvable.
 
user406009
Add a NaN value.
 
user406009
Boom. No more UB.
 
I am talking in terms of math
what NaN
what float
I am saying math has UB and @Mikhail is completely arbitrarily spouting nonsense and now you join him
 
@ScarletAmaranth Dude dividing by zero has been studied for like 150+ years, look up the residue theorem
 
5:14 PM
division by zero is undefined, it has two different limits
 
@ScarletAmaranth Not UB, it's just undefined
 
Okay, guys division by zero depends on the actual functions involved
Take a look at this, I think it does a very good of explaining whats going on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3p_E9jZOU8
 
It has 2 possible values, depending on which direction you approach from
Negative or positive infinity
 
LOOK UP THE FUCKING RESIDUE THEOREM
 
Limits are not values
 
5:17 PM
A CPU cannot divide by 0
 
Sure it can, if you tell it how
 
why the fuck are you mixing limits here
 
@TonyTheLion Can an FPU do that? :P
 
doubt it
 
@TonyTheLion you can tell a cpu that div x y for y == 0 is 42; easy
 
5:18 PM
lol
 
There's no physical barrier for CPU to not be able to have a rule that defines dividing by 0
 
And indeed they do because they need to raise an exception...
 
user1804599
hi
 
@Mikhail No, they don't. Depending on how you set things up, they can generate an INF or a NaN (though you can view that as redundant, with INF just being another kind of NaN).
 
implementations are meant to reflect the abstract system, sometimes there are gaps in the implementation that does not reflect the system, it doesn't mean they are valid.
 
user406009
5:26 PM
@Mikhail So that theorem allows you to integrate over functions with undefined points?
 
user406009
Cool.
 
@Lalaland Its actually necessary because things like the Green's function of freespace have division by zero problems.
@JerryCoffin I was thinking of integer division by zero, but I honestly have no clue how its implemented in hardware so that an exception is raised.
 
so
I'm going to play Paragon in half an hour as a part of closed alpha tests
 
user406009
@BartekBanachewicz How did you get on the closed alpha list?
 
Probably by filling up some kind of "let me in on closed alpha list" form
 
5:32 PM
^
 
There's "beta sign up" butan in launcher now
 
Ell
Division by zero is undefined in maths a swear on me mam
 
And it indeed signs you up presumably for beta
 
alpha requires accepting NDA and stuff
also the funeral wasn't nearly as bad as I expected
I think the christmas might not suck as badly as I thought
 
5:40 PM
"division by zero depends on the actual functions involved", then provided a video where the guy keep saying over and over "oh, but we cannot divide by zero". this only shows how division by zero is undefined and cannot be used in analysis
 
user406009
@KhaledAKhunaifer Well, Mikhail is demonstrating that you can analyze regions of functions where they divide by zero.
 
user406009
Even though we can't evaluate the function at that point, we can do some integrals containing that point.
 
user406009
So areas where you divide by zero have certain properties.
 
user406009
They are not simply "undefined".
 
@Lalaland it is really funny when someone provide the proof that shows how wrong they were.
@Lalaland the video shows a theory that says that an integral of an area can be divided into the sum of integrals for defined areas in that area. it doesn't change the fact that that area is still undefined.
 
5:45 PM
@KhaledAKhunaifer Well, is (x-1)/(x-1) undefined at x is 1 ? At the end of the day many numerical techniques, Method-of-Moments (CG-FFT), rely on that value being defined at least when inside an integral. Not everything is a number, but if we know what it does then we're good.
 
lol Pastebin mailing about their pro accounts
 
Undefined values are undefined
 
What if its not defined as a number but something else :-)
So, Not-A-Number is a good way to put it :-)
 
Howdy!
 
@Morwenn Hello :3
 
5:50 PM
sup dawgs
 
I've been called « miss » twise today. It was fun.
 
@Morwenn Hi Miss
 
Wow, thrice.
 
I got the Art of Fallout 4 book, it's pretty sexy. The artists there are very much bound by their shitty software engineering department. Terrifyingly so, I'd add.
 
@Borgleader :D
@Borgleader <3
@Morwenn Mornin' Morwenn
 
5:55 PM
@jaggedSpire Hey <3
 
not gonna be able to stay long, should be on for longer later
 
That's what they said.
 
user406009
@ElimGarak Maybe they are also bound at least in part by consumers having bad graphics cards.
 
user406009
And the consoles.
 
Evening.
 
5:57 PM
@Morwenn ayyy
 
@StackedCrooked Hey :)
 
user406009
Can't waste HD textures and high poly meshes on every object in the scene.
 
I should chat more.
Can a static_cast<int32_t>(some_uint32_value) ever trigger integer overflow? Or is overflow only caused by increment?
 
Nah, definitely their programmers. Consoles are not extremely powerful, but are still very much capable. It's mostly them using Gamebryo and tacking on GameWorks libraries for their "lauded" volumetric lighting and temporal anti-aliasing (a cheap version of TXAA).
 
@Mikhail Many don't expect it, but for integers the edge cases are often a bit more complex to deal with (than for floating point). In a typical case, you have two registers as input, divide by one register, and produce output in two registers: one for the quotient, the other for the remainder. So in this case, you can get an overflow exception, simply because the quotient won't fit in a single register.
 

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