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6:04 PM
The primary test there was could legal light sources properly illuminate an interior, without fake crap. Atmospheric rendering requires a light source (the local star ideally) and is known to be easily able to illuminate the room entirely (high average irradiance at ~1366 W/m^2 provides ample stuff to scatter). :D
So only the displays, that large artsy pantsy light and a few of those ceiling ones behind the left wall.
 
> I am looking for a mix of experience and value
> Budget: $85
FFS
 
The artists don't appreciate my tenacity towards radiometric and photometric units (where it makes sense). Some people just want to watch the world burn and have HDR multipliers.
 
> Pay $70 or more to unlock!
woahj
that's something for a bundle
 
You schooling people?
 
cout<<"Hello World";
5
 
6:08 PM
This gonna be gud
 
Ell
Man I want to play the sims
 
how is everyone?
 
@Ell Don't be a badlet, play a real man's game like Rise of Nations. :/
 
Ell
> Rating: Garbage
:(
 
@ElimGarak Codementor
@ElimGarak hrhr
 
user1804599
6:09 PM
I want to write documentation.
 
@ABcDexter error: 'cout' was not declared in this scope.
 
@ABcDexter Good, you? How's that namespace std treating you?
 
haha :-P
I'm good.
so this is what a chatroom looks like, hmm, interesting...
 
Nah, it's pretty much dead now. You haven't lived until you meet Cat Plus Plus.
 
Hahaha, cool :-)
 
6:12 PM
@Nooble It's the Netbeans logo with flames and a magenta J slapped on it
 
@Elim
What do you do, Sir?
 
@ABcDexter I'm a wannabe pornstar!
 
and I am his personal bitch
 
oh codemasters bundle as well now
 
we do amateur videos
 
6:13 PM
damn
 
And I hold the camera.
 
We're hoping to go pro soon and be invited to Brazzers parties.
 
well I wouldn't call it "holding" but yeah...
 
Whoa, that's a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it?
 
Why?
 
6:14 PM
well you usually don't have it in your hands
come on don't act like you're innocent
 
Haha xD
 
You just aim it at the action and eat overly spiced steaks. We've been meaning to talk to you about that.
 
@ScarletAmaranth How, come on, don't I look like I'm innocent? :(
 
What do you all do for living?
 
6:16 PM
Are you a student like me?
 
@ABcDexter we hang around in stack overflow chatrooms
we get paid for that
 
that's cool 8-)
 
We couldn't afford college after we became homeless. Most of us live under the bridge.
 
The bridge pattern is a design pattern used in software engineering which is meant to "decouple an abstraction from its implementation so that the two can vary independently". The bridge uses encapsulation, aggregation, and can use inheritance to separate responsibilities into different classes. When a class varies often, the features of object-oriented programming become very useful because changes to a program's code can be made easily with minimal prior knowledge about the program. The bridge pattern is useful when both the class and what it does vary often. The class itself can be thought of...
 
I model and do photoshoots for a living from time to time, but I don't get much.
 
6:20 PM
ITT @Morwenn is a view model :)
 
Can we see your normals bby?
 
Ok, I'm actually totally unemployed and I do more or less nothing at all.
 
ffs firefox lost all my tabs because it got closed before I could restore previous session
how fucking stupid is that
 
@Borgleader Did it let you file a report? :P
 
bye everyone, have a nice time ahead, gotta go and study for exams ^_^
 
6:21 PM
@Morwenn omg r u Vlad
 
I could probably do porn but it isn't my cup of tea.
 
@ABcDexter Bye, study hard and you won't end up like us ^_^
 
hey guys, im looking to buy some programming books, any suggestions? :D
 
4268
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are published every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a well-written...

 
@набиячлэвэлиь Second or third time I'm asked the question .______.
 
6:22 PM
@JustasSame google -.-;
 
user3790646
@Morwenn What...
 
user1804599
 
@Andrey What. I'm pretty sure there would be people willing to pay ._____.
 
@fredoverflow I always found the naming choice of "bridge" a bit weird, but when I think about it, every other choice is far worse. :D
 
user1804599
Is there still no decent alternative to Doxygen for C++ APIs? (No, cldoc is utter shit.)
 
6:23 PM
Guys, I got my gold badge whatever today, courtesy of the lounge.
 
user3790646
@Morwenn Oh if I had the money.
 
xD
 
user3790646
just kidding :x
 
@Andrey no youre not :P
 
@Elyse If you want to generate it from code comments, no.
 
6:24 PM
> Don't Boil Your iPhone 6 in Coca-Cola!
 
user1804599
@Morwenn What if I don't?
 
@Elyse Sphinx generates pretty things.
@BartekBanachewicz Give me 50€ first.
 
user1804599
Sphinx would be quite nice if it didn't generate those horribly useless navigation bars and ToCs.
 
ITT I'm desperate ._____.
@Elyse There are options to get rid of those, right?
 
user1804599
6:25 PM
Having no navigation bars at all is even more useless.
 
@Elyse so you suggest me to learn Scala basically?
 
@JustasSame You are free to learn it expertly if you so desire. We believe in you.
 
@Elyse What
 
user1804599
@Morwenn Something like this would be terrific: golang.org/pkg/crypto/cipher. The clickable names are extremely important, as are the clickable headers to go to the source code.
 
@JustasSame Yes, Scala's great
 
6:26 PM
@Morwenn kinda
and cheap
 
@Elyse The fact that the design expands all the way to the right of the screen while text wraps is...
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Right now I'm thinking of learning python/something else along with c++. So Scala vs python what are the differences? Which one would you learn?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I ask 50€ first. Then I ask more :D
 
user1804599
@набиячлэвэлиь Awful, like your avatar.
 
6:29 PM
@JustasSame Both, because they are fundamentally different: Python is a scripting language (so it's for automation) and Scala's a programming language for the JVM, so it's like Java's buff older brother
 
(so it's for automation) -- one could argue all programming languages are for that :p
 
user1804599
Is GNU Texinfo nice?
 
amazon.com/Automate-Boring-Stuff-Python-Programming/dp/… Just thought about buying this, now I think I will
 
@melak47 Scripting languages are explicitly for that
This one's much nicer: i.stack.imgur.com/q8CAR.jpg
 
After failing on OS X with weird rendering artifacts, tried to install UE4 on Win10 to see what's up... Install failed. Error: prerequisites already installed (vc++ redists), cannot continue. I cannot even imagine what's it like to depend on UE4 when building games.
 
6:32 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь your program is making those?
 
@JustasSame yep
 
@ElimGarak I had no problems installing it
 
At 10 million points it looks acceptable
 
Programming and automation are the same thing
 
@ElimGarak just build from source you scrub :v
 
6:33 PM
@Borgleader For some reason, I never could get it running properly. But nevermind, wouldn't use it for more than 10 minutes and it would just eat space. :D
 
I only installed it so I could look at the pretty demos
never did anything useful
 
@melak47 If our engine is any indication, building UE4 from scratch could also be concurrently done with preparing a thanksgiving turkey. :P
 
Mkay so just to sum up
Which 2 languages would you choose if you were a beginner:
Python - Scala
Python - C++
C++ - Scala
Else ?
 
nah, it takes like 20-30 minutes on my 2600K :)
 
6:35 PM
@JustasSame Python + Scala
 
@JustasSame C++11 and C++14, with a side-order of C++1z
 
Python and Python
 
How are the build times? :D
 
@JustasSame wtv the hell you want
 
@ElimGarak of what?
 
6:35 PM
@melak47 For UE4 :D
 
58 secs ago, by melak47
nah, it takes like 20-30 minutes on my 2600K :)
 
@Borgleader when you are a noob you dont know what to want..
 
Chat is being retarded :(
 
c++ % java
 
user1804599
APL and Haskell.
 
6:36 PM
@JustasSame google, look at options, pick the one you want
 
@melak47 Well, the turkey is done in 30 minutes. :D Kinda... I don't know shit about cooking though. :D
 
ok ok sorry for ruining the chat boys
 
@JustasSame No problem girl
 
they also have a git hook for downloading ~3GB of dependencies :D
@JustasSame too late, it's ruined now
 
6:38 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь it caches, so it's not like...switch branch, wait for 3GB download :p
 
@melak47 this just in, game engines are complex pieces of software
who wouldve thought
 
@melak47 Still D:
 
@набиячлэвэлиь better than their previous system where you had to manually download some zips from github
 
@melak47 That's even more D:
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Less D: than icicle
:P
 
user1804599
6:39 PM
How do you test a garbage collector. ._.
 
@Borgleader icicle is not dead
2
@Elyse Check for leaks
 
user1804599
How?
 
check happy path
 
And there was something programmatic, too
 
6:40 PM
then check some edge cases you can think of
 
@Elyse 1) make garbage. 2) collect(garbage) 3) assert garbabe is now garbage
 
user1804599
Step 3 is problematic.
 
don't you have tables with what is rooted that you can use to assert?
 
@melak47 nice runtime error
 
6:41 PM
@Borgleader assert(garbage == 0xCDCDCD) or whatever :v
 
user1804599
@JohanLarsson There is one table.
 
user1804599
You can also give the GC a function it can use to get a set of roots. This way, the GC is decoupled from call stacks.
 
make a garbage heap where garbage is sent to die. then check that your garbage ends up there
 
user1804599
fiber (which contains a call stack) implements the root_provider interface, and GC stores a set of root_provider const*s.
 
@melak47 garbabe will never be garbage because typo ;)
 
user1804599
6:44 PM
Problem is that the GC API promises that root_provider::roots will only be called during collection.
 
@Borgleader :(
 
ok time to work on compiler
give me strength
 
user1804599
I could make a function that returns GC statistics, which I can use in the tests.
 
user1804599
But this function will then also have to stop the world.
 
user1804599
Not really a problem I think.
 
6:45 PM
Anyone for pizza? https://t.co/JTne3xqOVy
 
@Borgleader how are your LLVM efforts coming along
 
@melak47 Slowly, was too tired to work on it this week. And flat hunting kept me from working on it most of last weekend
 
I keep getting hung up on all these pointless details like parsing and syntaxing and using llvm
 
@Elyse Not usually. You just have to live with the fact that the stats will always be out of date. Even if you stop the world, that'll remain true though. Even if you stop the world, by the time you get the result to the caller, it'll be out of date anyway.
 
user1804599
Tests run in a very controlled environment.
 
user1804599
6:48 PM
For example, in a test, I can know that there are no other mutators running.
 
Ruining this chat one last time
http://i.imgur.com/RS6G6nL.png
 
You won't believe this, but there is a Python room as well. Jon Clemens can't wait to meet you. :P
 
@Elyse Surely--but unless you have a nearly psychopathic hate for your users, you want to leave those functions available for use in things like tuning their code.
 
Thanks boss I actually had no idea, heading there now
 
user1804599
6:51 PM
@JerryCoffin I never said I would make them available only for testing.
 
@Borgleader neat. Is bolt open source? :D
 
Eventually
I dont have enough yet and its not in a good enough shape
 
I won't tell anyone :p
 
@Elyse Right--I wouldn't expect you to. And you're certainly right that you can control the environment a lot more in testing than otherwise. I'm just pointing out that you can get them to return useful (if possibly dated) information without having to stop the world--and that even if you do stop the world, the information they return has essentially the same possibility of being dated before use. IOW, stopping the world is neither necessary nor sufficient for implementing or using them.
 
@Borgleader do you do the parsing by hand? I found the LLVM tutorial where chapter 2 starts with 400+ lines of getchar() lexing/parsing and stuff a bit off-putting :( so I started looking at Boost.Spirit X3, then ran into stuff with their tutorials that doesn't quite work on VS2015 :(
 
6:58 PM
I dont have the codegen stuff committed yet
 
Yes, and I'm not logged in. Is that good or bad? :p
 
I just un-privated it
so it doesnt matter
 
cool :)
Ah, I see spirit stuff :)
 
Yeah but lexing not parsing, I have a manually written recursive descent parser for that
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin It's necessary for the implementation to be safe.
 
7:07 PM
@Borgleader I wrote one of those for json once. how hard can this be? :v
 
Depends on what youre trying to parse I guess
 
user1804599
I can't get the number of roots without stopping all mutators.
 
@Borgleader dunno yet. but thanks for letting me have a looksie.
 
@Elyse can you use it for asserting? I don't mind exposing internal stuff for tests like that. Prolly easier with C# where I can hac things with InternalsVisibleTo and reflection
 
user1804599
 
7:09 PM
@melak47 Np
 
@Borgleader you're building on linux, right? I wonder if I'll run into the same exception mess with llvm...I've turned the stuff on, but the VS projects still warn about exception handling being off
 
@Elyse I'm pretty sure you can (though you'll pretty much have to design it in more or less from the beginning, not just tack it onto the side of an existing GC).
 
user1804599
I can stop mutators one at a time.
 
@melak47 llvm works for me on windows, but i didnt disable exceptions
 
@Elyse ...or you can use a write barrier, like many concurrent GCs do.
 
7:12 PM
Today's Saturday?
 
Yeah, I thought it was Sunday for a while. I need to get out more.
 
Wot
How
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin I don't want to issue a barrier for every write.
 
I have never written a binary search, think it is time now. Not very interesting.
 
user1804599
Write barriers are fucking expensive.
 
7:16 PM
@Elyse I think you're misinterpreting. As used in GC, a write barrier is something that blocks execution if and only if an attempt is made at mutating some specified piece of memory (or registers). Some Lisp machines supported them in hardware. Without that, you typically add a level of indirection so you can turn the write into a function call when necessary. It's also been done via memory protection hardware, though it's less versatile so it takes more cleverness to make it work.
 
user1804599
Are those related to safepoints?
 
user1804599
Because I just implemented a mechanism like that which is used to avoid the cost of locking a mutex in a safe point when it's unnecessary to do so.
 
user1804599
Mutators enter safe points every now and then, but not after every instruction.
 
user1804599
And safe points block until the collection cycle is done.
 
user1804599
std::shared_lock<decltype(gc->stop_the_world_mutex)> stop_the_world_lock(gc->stop_the_world_mutex);
auto safe_point = [&] {
    if (gc->stop_the_world_requested) { // atomic Boolean
        stop_the_world_lock.unlock();
        stop_the_world_lock.lock();
    }
};
 
7:22 PM
@Elyse Hmm...I'm not certain--I've read about safepoints but never actually written code using them.
 
user1804599
Mutators won't ever stop until they enter a safe point or start waiting for an I/O operation to complete.
 
My recollection is that they're somewhat different though. If we think of things in terms of a task and scheduler, my recollection is that a safepoint is sort of like cooperative multitasking, where a thread entering a safepoint is basically giving permission for GC to proceed. Write barriers would be more like preempting multitasking, where the threads have no knowledge of the GC happening at al.
 
user1804599
I optimised the gc->stop_the_world_requested atomic Boolean to not issue read barriers at all (just bool, not std::atomic<bool>) unless the Boolean is actually true, using the memory protection trick you possibly mentioned.
 
I was thinking that Italian is really a terrible language
 
user1804599
If the Boolean is true, the page a related byte is in is not accessible, and the SIGSEGV signal is caught.
 
7:27 PM
For example "we <verb>", "you <verb>", "they <verb>" are all different words. The verb itself is never reused.
 
user1804599
It's a little buggy though and I have to fix that but it's quite easy.
 
@Jefery It's not
@Jefery That's what all languages do
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Nope.
In English I say "we do", "you do", "they do". Notice how "do" is always reused.
 
@Jefery English sucks
 
So it couples verbs with the subjective of the phrase.
In a similar way it couples the verb with time.
But that's something English also does.
 
7:29 PM
English is a mish-mash of bad design decisions and at least 3 parent languages
@Jefery And that's great
 
Except for "will", for example "will do".
 
You can omit the we/you/they
 
Both languages could be much simpler if they decoupled time and subjects from verbs.
 
@Jefery It does have a fairly high level of redundancy, but that's not always bad.
@Elyse Yeah--at least way back when, it was pretty easy to get it to work. The challenge was reducing the overhead enough that it was fast.
 
user1804599
Wait.
 
user1804599
7:31 PM
This trick is patented by Oracle.
 
Who wants to play GTA V heists.
 
Also the distinction between "don't" and "doesn't" is useless.
 
@Elyse Must be either something different, or a very specific detail of implementation. The general technique I'm talking about was published long enough ago that if it had been patented, the patent would have expired by now.
 
If they were merged into "don't", Eric Clapton wouldn't feel bad for using "She don't lie" in one of his songs.
 
user1804599
7:33 PM
Dunno.
 
user1804599
I'll just use std::atomic<bool>.
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin Yeah, the patent isn't about safe points.
 
@Jefery Hmm...it's named "Cocaine", and you think grammar is what he'd feel bad about?
 
@Jefery They're different words with different meanings.
 
user1804599
But first, I have to find out why the fuck the GC doesn't collect this object.
 
7:37 PM
And you could put all that removed complexity into distinguishing between "You" singular and "You" plural. And also in having one "We" which includes the listener and one that don't.
 
@Elyse Yeah, I think "using a bit in the cache tags to signify that an object is being copied" qualifies as a "very specific detail of implementation".
 
@Puppy What different meanings?
 
@JerryCoffin Wait you can PATENT that?
 
@Jefery In the Southern US, you is singular, and "y'all" is plural. If the speaker isn't included, that would be "you".
 
@JerryCoffin What about "all y'all" ?
 
7:39 PM
@Jefery Well, it's the same as "do" and "does".
 
@JerryCoffin Sorry, I meant listener. Not speaker.
@Puppy What are these different meanings?
 
@VermillionAzure There's a little more to it than that, but at first glance it looks like most of the general idea.
 
you'll have to ask somebody more formally versed in the language than I
 
@Borgleader Redundantly pluralized, much like medium -> media -> multimedia.
 
@Puppy (They have the same meaning)
 
7:41 PM
offhand, I only know that substituting them creates nonsense
like "The table don't look good"
"I doesn't think so"
 
@Puppy It's ungrammatical by convention--but the meaning is pretty obvious; it creates no actual ambiguity.
 
That's nonsense only due to the current rules of English grammar. The meaning of those phrases is not ambiguous due to their exchange.
 
personally I'd start with words that are homophones, like "there", "their" and "they're".
 
7:53 PM
@melak47 @ElimGarak Do heists with me.
:3
 
@Nooble Work on lumiukko
You done with homework?
 
@набиячлэвэлиь But heists.
 
@Nooble too tired today, sorry
 
@набиячлэвэлиь Of course not.
@melak47 :(
 

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