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22:00
Oh and then one day he kicked me because I made a joke about him or something?
@Jefffrey What? You want to get kicked? How much will you offer, just for a kick?
Kicking the foot?
@JerryCoffin already had the pleasure:
Dec 28 '14 at 18:10, by Jefffrey
@Shog9 Can you kick me for 1 minute?
@JohanLarsson I see only a shoe, not a foot.
but thanks anyway
22:02
@JerryCoffin I see skin, think there might be a foot involved.
@JohanLarsson I see skin, but it's above (below?) the ankle, not part of the foot. Doesn't count as foot (but in the new Lounge<Sharia>, enough of an excuse to support stoning her).
Man, Smooth McGroove is awesome.
@rightføld ^
@sehe Why do you relish in my suffering!
Someone should notice. It was funny
user1804599
22:15
This is so nice.
Jerry is nice
> Some people think he's a douche..... I wish I was that Frank and honest. Lol
> Frank
@Jefffrey I'm not Nice. I'm Paris-Nice. The vanguard. The beginning. The asshole!
Oops. Damn. I thought I'd fixed that bug.
you think paris hilton is nice? >_<
bravo!
I don't know what to do.
@chmod711telkitty I thought she was pretty awesome in one video.
Other than that, don't know or care much about her at all.
@Jefffrey A problem I never have--people are always telling me what to do and (especially) where I should go.
22:30
you should shut up about that
and go into the corner.
huh
I went back in the transcript but didn't find that thing that jefffrey posted about blowjobs.
@Puppy I am in the corner. Just moved my desk this morning, AAMOF. Now I have a window view too. I'm pretty happy about it (and yes, in this case I'm entirely serious).
@JerryCoffin I actually plain cannot see anything but white unless I squint really, really hard.
maybe next time you will choose to stand in the corner of a room with walls the colour you like
@Puppy It disappeared...
waat
well would you care to repost the link? I'm not at work anymore and the robot's reaction makes me most curious
22:37
Oo wait, we are not talking about what you can see while standing in the corner
It should be right above the "Why the fuck." message
@Puppy r/randomactsofblowjob
7 hours ago, by Václav Zeman
Blowjobs are overrated.
wait
was it moved?
did you move it robot
Yes.
6 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Saving Puppy's job.
22:40
in bin, 7 hours ago, by Jefffrey
it even had the tag
also there's really nothing NSFW there
6 hours ago, by Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's text - only text.
user1804599
who cares it's a boring page anyway
Why can't my friends accept the fact that just because I don't have a set schedule, it does not mean I am free. I always have a lot of interesting/useful things to do. Very sad that some people think only when you are told to do certain things, it's important - what am I? A servant/slave?
people who lack things to do while not told lacking leadership skills
fucking shit
fucking goto cancer
OK. I haz de Lounge alpha and omega, (beer and pizza)
@chmod711telkitty No, you're not. Now finish cooking my supper, cleaning my house and rubbing my feet, and if you do an extra-good job, I'll give you 3 minutes to contemplate how wonderful your life is instead of applying your usual beating tonight.
22:47
Such violence.
user1804599
goto is nice.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Did I do something wrong to you in the last month or so?
@rightføld jkhgvhdcm jhcdkitfr.lofr
@BartekBanachewicz goto cancer? You mean the Topic of Cancer? I don't think I'll go back. I've already been there once, and didn't enjoy the heat very much at all, thanks anyway.
@JerryCoffin Oo we are role playing now, I see >_<
22:50
@JerryCoffin no, goto cancer, altough frankly it's more like goto ebola
@chmod711telkitty "accept the fat", ftfy
@chmod711telkitty As long as you do a good enough job, you can think of it any way you prefer.
I have to admit
it was super disappointing.
@BartekBanachewicz Yish. Being serious for a moment, my condolences.
just a bunch of dudes asking for blowjobs
22:53
@Puppy I can't see how that would be disappointing. Disappointment would only be reasonable if you expected something more/better.
well considering the other Lounge's reaction I expected more.
I certainly don't expect anything great from Reddit.
2
@Puppy The fact that it's Reddit, by itself, should lower your expectations so far that disappointment is impossible.
true.
Hi everyone I wanted to ask for this example declaration
    Node** Map = new Node*[5];
    		for (int i = 0; i < 5; i++)
    			Map[i] = new Node[5];

I am doing this deletion process
    for (int i = 0; i <5; i++)
    			delete[] Map[i]; //gdb throws segfault for delete Map[i] why?
    		delete[] Map;

As stated in the comment I don't know why delete Map[i] is wrong over delete[] Map[i]
Any ideas?
no.
boy it's amazing how prompt that response can be.
23:01
I have an idea
but slower
it's late here
wing, you allocated Map[4] using new Node[5], that is, as an array.
same applies to Map[2]
and to some others.
I keep on getting a 403 error trying to publish to GitHub from visual studio.
@wing Don't use new
it's just "don't use C++"
std::vector FTW
@wing First idea: don't do any of this. You apparently want std::vector<Node> Map(25);, so just use that.
23:04
because you suck at it
@milleniumbug I hereby declare that other than learning purposes I will not use new delete in a program
I also promise I will learn share_ptr , smart pointer, boost and anything other than raw c++ pointer
@wing Very good.
no, it's not very good.
it's particularly stupid.
"other than learning purposes"?
so you can learn to do what, overflow your buffers, leak your memories, and crash your programs?
Why isn't VS2013 prompting me for a user/pass? Argh.
@Puppy You can't change what they teach you at uni.
23:07
what kind of utter moron decides to learn the worst possible way to do a thing when he knows there are vastly superior ways of doing it?
@Puppy It's hard to stay away from it if you never saw the risk
@Puppy that's a different thing :)
@Puppy A moron that is obliged to use the worst possible way that is :D
@milleniumbug then who will?!
@sehe Well, for one, I won't. I'm just a student.
@wing the smiley there is off-color; your excuse should not make you particularly proud or righteous. Tell your prof.
23:09
Students are on the bottom of the food chain here.
There's so much wrong with that notion. Of course you aren't. Only if the majority doesn't care what they get spoonfed
Back in Black solo is hard
@sehe Since when the student can influence the curriculum?
Since always. If you don't - vocally - complain and offer constructive criticism, nothing has to change.
does "windowed fullscreen" perform better than fullscreen usually?
23:13
@milleniumbug Also, this "victim" notion by very definition can't ever work. Don't step into the role. You'll thank me for the rest of your life.
I get slightly desperate when I see people make that move. I mean come on. How much do you value yourself?
Every bug you accept as not worth fixing, shifts the baseline of what’s acceptable toward a steaming pile of shit.
Strangely relevant
@Jefffrey awkward :)
god
"overkill just to avoid goto"
Yes, again?
I wish I could take that guy and a big clue stick
23:19
@corvid No.
@corvid it usually performs worse
A quine relay in 100 languages: brainfuck, punched tapes, whitespace... + ascii art https://github.com/mame/quine-relay http://t.co/rTZcmdLGZw
@rightføld /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
Lol, I just found the funniest term ever
"macfag"
@Jefffrey No, you didn't. I'm sorry. "It's not you, it's me."
23:27
it has better infrastructure than most of the projects on gh
It's a freaking 100 language (alphabetical) chain quine, "oh it's better-organized than most sillyness"
@sehe Right now I'm being as vocal as I can get without dealing with uni staff. Some people are reasonable, and some are not.
uh I literally don't even
@milleniumbug I know the odds are you are not going to effect change. But you are setting an example. Raising a signal. Next class you won't be alone. And next year you might actually get something done.
I'm tempted to write 4-page answer explaining why not using goto is the good way
23:30
If nothing else you can look at yourself in the mirror and remember what you started doing the education for, again.
but those people are just too dumb to realize that
@BartekBanachewicz don't. The good way is to let things that are self-evident, evidence themselves
no matter how much of explanation you present them with, they refuse to acknowledge the arguments
@BartekBanachewicz Or they take longer. Sometimes, because they're being told so adamantly. They're almost like humans. Delightfully irrational
the hell am I supposed to do, tell them a fairy tale about the Witch of Goto and the Hero of Immutability?
4
23:32
@milleniumbug That's good. Making the distinction is fine. But accepting the "deadbeat role" is doing both the staff and especially the students (yourself, i.e.) a giant disfavor
@BartekBanachewicz Link to readily available resources. Let them meddle with it. Check back in 5 years.
meh immutability
it's a useful tool and nothing more, it's no hero
it's like saying "being able to destructure programs into smaller parts is a useful tool and nothing more"
it's essential
vital
crucial
@Puppy Leave it to Bartek to derail his own argument.
seriously, immutability isn't just a tool; it's the most important invariant in computer programming
programs would be literally unprogrammable if you could not destructure them.
even assembly would be useless if you could not destructure a function, routine, or whole program into individual assembly ops.
and those ops into hardware operations.
23:35
see you're going into assembly again
@sehe They'll need it, as especially the "Programming 101" course needs salvage - I'm on 2nd year, but now the freshmen are not allowed to use the "STL", whatever that means. They actually got worse this year.
I'm merely pointing out that assembly, the fundamental of all programming, would be useless without destructuring.
@BartekBanachewicz yes, and at some levels mutability is essential
and therefore all higher-level languages would cease to exist.
Assembly isn't the fundamental of all programming
I absolutely, with passion, hate low-level savages trying to argue about high-level concepts with arguments based on assembly
it's about the dumbest thing you can pull off, imho
23:37
all programs must go through assembly.
@BartekBanachewicz you construct a code generator that generates provabily correct and safe code, then, using the Laws Of Immutabilty.
We'll wait.
assembly is the root of all programming languages.
@Puppy and it's absolutely irrelevant when talking about programming
@Puppy except it's not
@Puppy inb4 Mechanical Turk
@BartekBanachewicz If assembly ceased to exist, there would be nothing to compile Haskell programs into.
23:38
assembly is the root of low-level programming languages
Haskell exists only because assembly exists.
no assembly, no Haskell.
Haskell programs don't compile to assembly
@Puppy Haskell exists without an implementation.
also ^, arguably more important
everything compiles to assembly
it's just a question of how many intermediate steps you have.
23:39
no, it's really not
Ell
Ell
@Puppy there are implementations besides assembly you can "execute"
but since the CPU cannot execute anything but assembly, it's clear that all executable programs must eventually become assembly in some form.
that's absolutely irrelevant
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait. Are you breaking up with me?
you can choose whatever final representation you wish and that won't impact your high-level code at all
Ell
Ell
23:40
@Puppy no
You're wrong
CPUs cannot execute assembly
it's not at all irrelevant when you're trying to claim a thing that's required for assembly is optional.
Ell
Ell
There are things that execute other than assembly
it is clearly not optional.
@milleniumbug agreed
23:40
Good night lounge.
@Puppy You apparently don't even understand my claim
@BartekBanachewicz Nah. You both love talking past eachother, and now you're playing the "you don't even understand the problem" card.
@Puppy The fact that problems, theorems, whatnot can be transformed from one domain to another doesn't essentially change them.
@r.m @sehe I understand what puppy is trying to say. I agree with him to the point that if you want to run software on a computer, you need to produce machine code. I consider this not important with regard to talking about high-level programming, if only because this final representation isn't even defined for high-level languages, as @sehe pointed out.
You can reason about high-level code without ever running it; you can have a high-level language without a working compiler
@BartekBanachewicz You can, but since it's utterly worthless to do so, it's irrelevant.
23:43
the fact that the program isn't going to be ran on a physical computer doesn't make the action of writing it "not programming"
My point was: good luck making the translation from pure, functional to concrete hardware implementation a provably correct one.
5 mins ago, by sehe
@BartekBanachewicz you construct a code generator that generates provabily correct and safe code, then, using the Laws Of Immutabilty.
@sehe No, it doesn't- but if they have to be transformed to be useful, then what's important to the new domain is important to the old one.
We'll wait :)
@Puppy Nope. It's important to that particular implementation.
which is the only one going.
so close enough.
But, in the end, even the purest immutability involves changing state. If only because the state always expands. And expansion/growth can be seen as change.
23:44
@Puppy To have a working compiler you have to define a language first; going by your argument, every language would be worthless in between its design and its working implementation; if it was worthless, it would be worthless to develop it further
worthless things can become not worthless in the future.
I think that's contradictory.
@Puppy Remember the lisp machines. One could concoct a Haskell machine and eliminate the impedance mismatch goin to assembly. (At some level, electronics would be involved and at least some resource bounds would occur.)
Either way, we're not discussing the usefulness here, rather the concept
@sehe What I remember about them is that they became extinct. Before my birth even, if I recall correctly.
23:46
The entire goto discussion in that question is meaningless, since you could replace that code with clever usage of std::find
@Puppy While it might be useless to create a language without an implementation (arguable), it's certainly possible to do so.
Abstractions, baby
I'm pointing a direction. Way to discredit a fact with your arbitrary condescension
@milleniumbug But how would you shove immutability into that answer?
3
that possibility is irrelevant, since it leads to nothing of value.
23:47
@R.MartinhoFernandes Brilliant. Should immediately make the Bratek/Pupiness clear
@Puppy do you want to change your previous statement to "assembly is the root of all programming languages that I consider valuable"?
no.
you just stated that it would be useless.
Do you agree one could create a useless programming language without an implementation?
sure.
Hence assembly need not be the root of it?
23:49
if you wanted to.
I suppose that moves the discussion to whether it's possible to transform a language created in such a fashion into a useful one.
Ell
Ell
Also you can compile things to not assembly
4 mins ago, by milleniumbug
Abstractions, baby
well, it doesn't currently appear possible to create competitive CPUs for things that are not assembly.
ah, but wait.
23:51
@Ell All of those things eventually compile to assembly.
Lisp machines should make a comeback
@Ell But try without mutability. And if you did, gratz: it's turtles all the way down (back to puppy's "you can't feed that to the CPU")
what we're talking about now is the end-generator
@Puppy jvm's on a chip exist(ed)
you can create an end form generator without knowing the language upfront, of course.
so you take a language created in isolation from assembly, an assembly generator created in an isolation from that language
23:52
@sehe They would have to be considerably faster for the price to justify their lack of flexibility, and it seems currently that they can't be.
and then you write a binding isolated from both the high-level language concepts and the end form
@Puppy That's begging the question.
Well, not quite.
it's simply an observation.
It's just a silly tautology.
@Puppy We weren't talking about flexibility. We were talking about purity. Stop moving the goal posts
23:53
Have we moved to the "competitive" while I was writing? Oh, apparently.
Since "assembly" essentially means "whatever a CPU runs".
I've been talking about usefulness and value since we started.
and flexibility is part of what makes a CPU useful.
@Puppy Stop simply observing, if you're using it to derail the argument. Simply say it if you lost interest
Ell
Ell
@Puppy not correct!
if you put a JVM on a mobile chip, say, then you can't run iOS or Windows Phone on it, which would substantially limit the market for such a chip.
Ell
Ell
23:54
FPGAs don't execute asswmbly for instance
@Puppy I'd say that a language that can be compiled into different assemblies is also useful
@Puppy That doesn't mean you can ignore what Bratek started the discussion about. You can simply say these "forces" are at odds and you will have to find some balance point. Gee.
That was hard
@BartekBanachewicz I agree.
@Puppy doesn't mean those assemblies have to be related.
@Puppy There is zero reason why those OSes couldn't be ported to a JVM chip (seeing that windows was ported to ARM)
23:56
that's assuming that the JVM supports all of the semantics of a regular ARM chip.
If it's turing complete...
@Puppy No, it's not.
turing completeness doesn't make it practical.
It only needs to support the subset that those OSes need.
@Puppy Gosh. Go away with "practical". It's also not a night gown
23:56
I think it really doesn't answer the original question
@sehe I apologize that my discussion that I started doesn't meet your standards.
which was "is it possible to create a useful language without rooting it at assembly"
@Puppy Doesn't make it impractical either.
perhaps if you don't want to be in the discussion, you should go away.
You keep inventing things to detract from facts, just because there's /some other aspect/ that isn't optimal. Big deal.
23:57
@Puppy what about languages that compile to javascript?
@BartekBanachewicz I was just thinking about that.
@Puppy I remembered Bartek starting it. Since it was about goto
the problem is that if your competitor is ARM who can just run the code natively, it's difficult to see how you could achieve competitive performance/battery life/etc, even if you used something like Emscripten. Obviously that's JS and not JVM but similar principles.
21 mins ago, by sehe
@Puppy inb4 Mechanical Turk
Just massive parallelism, with some error correction/statistical smoothing on top...
You're assuming that performance and battery life are the goals one wants to achieve for some reason
23:59
^
@sehe No, he didn't. Bartek just name-dropped his other agenda for no reason.

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