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14:01
No, they don't. Darkness is bad for driving even with lights.
@R.MartinhoFernandes we put the truckers there cbsnews.com/news/…
@R.MartinhoFernandes It is, but mitigated on roads with no junction hazards, lile autoroute/motorway.
sound on linux is a pita
parrots are a pita
14:06
Parrots?
Parrots!
pita bread is a pita
I like pita bread
Me too, and I'm getting hungry.
Must get something out of freezer for later.
wife away?
@Puppy Well, out until ~1600
14:11
@MartinJames 1600? You're time traveling now?
Not sure wots left. We've finally eaten all teh turkey. I think there's chicken-something. I'll go look.
@rubenvb [sigh] 16:00
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz IME sound is a PITA on every OS
@Ell Unfunnily enough, my sound on YouTube has disappeared:(
user1804599
wooohooo
user1804599
Beautiful.
14:18
I'll reboot my box later to fix the YT sound, while I'm cooking the 'Chicken mini-roasts'.
user1804599
Ell
Ell
> .lasagna
but woo congrats
@Ell Yeah - he knows I'm starving hungry.
Ell
Ell
haha
I just cooked and ate my risotto
it was really good
@rightføld So your compiler adds layers?
14:21
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah I saw it a while back
user1804599
@rubenvb lol
@Ell not on OSX
Ell
Ell
IME it is even on OS X
It's an exact copy of mine in terms of behaviour lol
@Ell you plug stuff in, you have sound
14:22
I.e. bad string handling and what not
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz But I mean try having 3 things plugged in
the simple setup works on windows/linux/osx fine
it's when it gets more complicated
Ell
Ell
with multiple outputs and you want different sounds to go to different outputs
or multiple outputs
Chat on mobile sucks
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh oh oh! it's an image of a loading bar!
14:24
Previewing the fucking file.
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol, if it's a slider, just move it to end - install done!
It's amazing that something can surpass Skype in terms ofmobile interfaces
user1804599
@Rapptz Chat sucks. Mobile sucks. Of course the combination sucks.
That's that VS feature that opens a file immediately just as you select it on the Solution Explorer.
@BartekBanachewicz your can get up shits creek, but usually it's fine. what's your beef?
14:24
This time it popped up that modal dialog for a few seconds.
Seriously, fuck you.
Ell
Ell
better than not responsive I guess :P
If you think the preview might take a while don't show it. It's a lot better than slapping a fucking modal dialog with a stupid progressbar.
@Ell It is pretty much the same bullshit.
@Ell yeah rerouting can be annoying because each and every program wants to manage it
It is not usable, and it gives no information.
@R.MartinhoFernandes it lets you ponder about your life choices
14:26
@BartekBanachewicz erm... OSX is ~more or less~ linux (yes I know it's BSD) still. You are complaining about shitty user space stuff, not kernal level
Fuck modal forms. Specifically designed to stop you finding out what is going on.
@BartekBanachewicz Moving the goal posts, it seems.
@thecoshman I've reread your statement and now it makes even less sense
I concur.
user1804599
14:27
I conquer.
Ell
Ell
I divide
I conker.
@Ell By zero? Because that would explain a lot about you.
(also COMBOBREAKER)
14:27
welp complicated sound setups are complicated
linux makes basic sound setups also complicated
@BartekBanachewicz it's not a kernal problem (ie not a linux problem) it's a problem with programs in user-space, and also OSX is BSD which is more or less linux
extrapolating, linux makes everything complicated
> OSX is BSD which is more or less linux
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz Do you think? IME simple setups are easy in all OSs
@BartekBanachewicz I've been saying that for years.
@BartekBanachewicz YMMV
Ell
Ell
14:28
but complicated setups are disproportionately complicated in all OSs
user1804599
I don't even have sound on my work PC.
my work PC is Windows 8 which periodically makes super annoying pinging noises
user1804599
I've never needed it and I lost my kernel configuration so I cannot recompile the kernel to include audio drivers unless I figure out the configuration again.
@Puppy but then again for some complicated scenarios, linux way of complicating stuff might be easier
@Puppy I've been saying it for decades. The very first Unix app I was ever given failed to run 'cos libs, permissions etc.
14:29
@BartekBanachewicz what are you trying to do? I tend to just have all sound go to one output... so it's trivial to manage, even swapping what that output is is easy.
@MartinJames Permissions are annoying shit no matter what.
@Puppy and always found to be the problem
@Puppy Turn 'em off?
it might be that it has changed since last time I've tried to set up sound on linux
Ell
Ell
"linux makes everything complicated" isn't reasonable to say when you're talking about end users
it makes sense when programming against the api (which I don't know is complicated or not)
14:30
@Ell no?
user1804599
ok guys what lambda syntax shall I do
Ell
Ell
but you have to talk about distros
imho
@R.MartinhoFernandes the ping likes to turn itself back on
Ell
Ell
different linux distros vary extremely
@Ell yes, there are better and worse distros for end users, and even the good ones are pretty shitty
Ell
Ell
14:31
I disagree
for me the UI is enough
@BartekBanachewicz everything can be found shit when expected to do things it;s not designed to do.
Ell
Ell
What is wrong with the UI? o.O
user1804599
I guess fn(x) => aaaaa(x) works well.
@thecoshman are you implying linux isn't designed for end-users?
14:31
@BartekBanachewicz you can make a windows or osx like gui if you want that. almost perfectly so.
@Ell wait weren't you the one who claimed that Blender's UI is ok?
jesus christ I love reviewing code
@BartekBanachewicz no implying you can deem anything shit when you look at things it;s not designed for.
@thecoshman you can also write an operating system from scratch... or can you?
it's like I have this inner need to find problems in others' code and tell them about it
Ell
Ell
14:32
@BartekBanachewicz I think the blender UI is okay vOv
@Ell welp no offence, but you've just lost all credibility in the UI dept.
@BartekBanachewicz their existence implies so, or that of God
righty.
thread derailed.
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz what 3d software has good UI then?
@BartekBanachewicz I like it. Works well with almost keyboard-only interaction.
user1804599
14:33
@Ell I liked Maya's.
@BartekBanachewicz so is their any chance of you stopping the shit storm and me helping you?
Ell
Ell
Maya has a horrible UI
so so many menus at the top of the screen
@Ell Sketchup and Autocad
Ell
Ell
but of course I'm already used to blender
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's almost like it's a complicated bit of software.
Ell
Ell
14:34
@BartekBanachewicz do you think vim has a horrible UI?
(or emacs?)
@BartekBanachewicz What he suggested usually amounts to just downloading a package or changing one setting somewhere.
¬_¬ tapping out
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, no.
@BartekBanachewicz rofl!
Ell
Ell
14:34
@BartekBanachewicz welp no offence, but you've just lost all credibility in the UI dept.
vim's UI is terrible for various reasons.
"this computer is shit as it doesn't come matching my EXACT needs, and I refuse to acknowledge how easy it is to customise to my exact needs with a few steps and a bit of light reading"
@BartekBanachewicz You can make that two settings. It still makes your previous reply about building OSes a pointless waste of everyone's time.
@BartekBanachewicz that's like saying a terminal UI is terrible
14:36
@sehe precisely.
vim makes excellent use of whatever limitations terminal imposes on it
You don't get the "purpose" part of UI, it seems
@BartekBanachewicz lol
I think that creating good UIs is very hard.
As a matter of fact, I consider most UIs I use rather bad
Ad very useless for things like a programmer's text editor
ITT farttech fails to differentiate UIs from GUIs
14:38
@thecoshman nah, he fails to put purpose first
@thecoshman "differentiate" ?
@Ell Well it is horrible. It may be a powerful editor, but you can't really deny that's not really good UI.
@thecoshman Blender's UI is a GUI, though.
@BartekBanachewicz for once, he didn't misspell it
Ell
Ell
@milleniumbug A lot of people like vim's ui and attribute it to it's speed
14:38
spelling is okay, it's the meaning that's weird for me
Ell
Ell
likewise with emacs
they just take learning
that's what I gather anyway vOv
@Ell Or extra fingers.
GUIs are UIs
@BartekBanachewicz a good UI does not equate to a good GUI
Squares are rectangles.
14:39
@thecoshman of course it doesn't
@R.MartinhoFernandes and?
@milleniumbug it has excellent UI. It has poor GUI, or rendering, or consistency or whatever else it lacks. But the interface is splendid (flexible, effective, extensible, powerful, consistent, composable, IOW: it works)
any one, one last time, @BartekBanachewicz do you actually want to try resolve your audio problems or not?
@sehe No, not really consistent.
@thecoshman I have no audio problems, and coincidentally I stopped using linux about 6 months ago
14:40
We got ourselves another prime lurker!
user1610431, congrats on being a member of that illustrious group!
It's full of historical quirks.
Ell
Ell
Hmm. I can't get my dwarves to remove some constructions via d-n
@BartekBanachewicz o_0 so why you just had some sort of flash back and randomly felt the need to say stuff about it?
@Ell Can they access it?
@thecoshman dunno really.
Ell
Ell
14:41
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah. It looks like the command isn't working
Do you have burrows set up?
anyway I really like the state of not having to use linux
Ell
Ell
Actually. Maybe it's not the right designation. I want to unplace a bed
everything is much simpler
@Ell d-n is for stuff you designate with d.
Use q for beds.
Ell
Ell
14:42
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh. Makes sense, I just couldn't find anything to remove a building under b
@BartekBanachewicz to be fair, I think I tried to look at having skype use one audio output, and everything use something else. don't think I got that working...
Ell
Ell
unless I'm just being blind
q-x, if my muscle memory serves.
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, it's a lot more consistent than the equivalents in say, Notepad++
Ell
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ahhhhh yes thank you
14:43
might have been problem with skype trying to manage audio itself, rather than using alsa... or what ever thing audio is supposed to use these days
Ell
Ell
It did serve, thank you :)
yeah... linux audio on linux is a mess :P
@sehe Also, unusable for anyone without studying the manual.
@thecoshman sigh
@BartekBanachewicz my rant is ... a small week back. Not gun' repeat that
14:43
there are good solutions now, but plenty of shit still in circulation
@sehe Can you eat prime lurkers?
oh, while we're at it
has anyone used Windows 10?
I've seen it in action and it looks quite nice
@BartekBanachewicz :D
Ell
Ell
Hmm. My nestbox hasn't been claimed even though I have like 6 hens o.O
I wonder how expensive will the upgrade from 8 to 10 be
Ell
Ell
14:44
oh one of them has
@milleniumbug what an interesting argument. That's like saying "huh that saw table/chip tuner/welding device/... is unusable if you don't have the training"
@MartinJames for lunch. It's a long forgotten gag of mine:
Jul 18 '12 at 0:22, by sehe
^ He wins the prize. EDIT O, wow! Prime user alert. We got another pime user: user1515739
I happened to notice that user was a prime number in the user list
@sehe Also, this "it has excellent UI. It has poor GUI, or rendering, or consistency or whatever else it lacks. But the interface is splendid (flexible, effective, extensible, powerful, consistent, composable, IOW: it works)"
@BartekBanachewicz not too expensive. After all they don't want to drive you back to linux, do they :)
user1804599
yelp
14:46
@milleniumbug What about that? I made the distinction very clear, IMO
ironically if it was too expensive I'd probably move to Mac
but I don't think it's gonna reach that point
that's very ironic indeed
> The Redmond firm teased a hybrid interface mode for 2-in-1 laptops and other hybrid devices. Containing elements of both the current Windows 8.1 Start screen and the desktop improvements, this new touch-focused start screen will switch based on the input used.
@BartekBanachewicz I don't follow
14:47
> "Nah, too expensive, I'll switch to Mac". - no one, ever
well, right now windows has a better price/features ratio than mac for me
if windows got more expensive, the ratio could shift; it's that what matters for me, not the price
How expensive are atomic loads of std::size_t on non-PC architectures?
@BartekBanachewicz then why aren't you on linux? you can't beat at least one feature for free.
@VáclavZeman That's so broad.
@BartekBanachewicz don't tell Apple/Microsoft about this. Otherwise, they will drive you back to linux
@thecoshman :D
14:48
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mmm, I know...
@sehe I don't understand. Do you mention "poor consistency" in one sentence and "good consistency" in another?
@thecoshman because I have a minimum functionality standards that linux oses don't cover
@milleniumbug it is consistent, just doesn't have consistency. Just like I am human, but lack humanity.
I liked tinkering with things when I was 17 yo
now I just want working devices, if I have to pay for that I will
Ell
Ell
14:49
@BartekBanachewicz what like? out of interest
@R.MartinhoFernandes my needs about my electronic devices have changed (matured?) - doesn't mean I'm a grown-up
@milleniumbug Yes. And if you look veryyyyy carefully (not) you see that the one is about GUI, rendering, [visual, (red.)] consistency (so the GUI part, that is nonexistent and everybody complains about) and the latter is about the actualy UI (you know, User Interface) that is actually really good
Basically, I am mulling over whether to add changeable max_queue_size and thus having to make it std::atomic<std::size_t> and check it on each enqueue or not to do that because the resulting if (tasks.size() < max_queue_size) would be too expensive...
@BartekBanachewicz if you mean actual features you require, I'd be curios what you feel a Linux OS lacks that isn't solvable with a few installs.
@Ell not having to spend too much time on it to accomplish basic tasks
user1804599
14:50
What is this bullshit.
@thecoshman getting those "few installs" to a configuration state that fits me
Ell
Ell
You have to install it, once you've done that you can accomplish lots of basic tasks
no, you have to configure it first
user1804599
My compiler is telling lies.
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, that's precisely the same here. Which is why I really can't stand to go back to Windows. And I frequently loath any other OS I have to use, anyways :)
user1804599
14:51
class Cons(hd, tl) { }
def foo() = Cons() // error: name 'Cons' not in scope
and even then, using linux is an endless exercise in configuration
@BartekBanachewicz so you have never had to configure windows or mac?
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz what do you have to configure? o.O
@BartekBanachewicz That's a prime reason to not use Windows
Ell
Ell
Do you mean during install?
14:51
@BartekBanachewicz If any part of you has matured it means you have matured as whole. :)
@thecoshman I like their defaults more
@VáclavZeman bullshit
@BartekBanachewicz I find it funny that it's mostly people that don't use it that complain about that.
@BartekBanachewicz do you like all of them?
People that use it spend little time configuring anything.
@BartekBanachewicz when. what. why. At least linux let's you version/copy the entire configuration!
14:52
@thecoshman no, but the ratio is enough for me to not use it
I dunno really what you're all on about
@sehe Ok, misunderstanding cleared up.
@BartekBanachewicz It does not imply complete maturity, just more maturity. :)
I've used linux a lot for a few years
I'm not on puppy's level of using it
No, you didn't.
@BartekBanachewicz not really. I just use my computer. Since I've set it up, it's run more or less the same every since. Only when I install new software do I need to go configure that software.
14:53
@R.MartinhoFernandes uh, right.
@BartekBanachewicz Nope. Ubuntu works pretty much OOTB.
According to you you spent a lot of time configuring it, and not enough time using it.
I was doing both vOv
@BartekBanachewicz Keep using it for a few more years, and you'll get on Puppy level, I promise! (SCNR)
@VáclavZeman well fuck do tell me more
IDGI
14:53
@VáclavZeman that's a strange argument
@sehe Yet, without any training I'm more performant in Notepad than in vim. And that's sad.
@BartekBanachewicz This vOv reminds me of a merman with webs betwen his fingers.
I wonder who's on "my personal choices are best for everyone" horse now
because sure as fuck it isn't me this time
@milleniumbug No it isn't. Vim wanted to / needed to cater for Notepad-level users, it would be less good at what it does for power users.
@sehe lol, why strange?
14:55
¬_¬ oh great, land line/isp are going to charge me more for a 'improved' phone service I don't use.
@milleniumbug A race car driver doesn't want parking assist either
@sehe Oh, they do.
@sehe Also I've found that apparently I'm a "notepad-level" user more than a "vim-level" user
They don't park with the cars they race with.
@VáclavZeman That's an extremely low bar. He was talking about /configuring/, not /fixing broken stuff/. (That reminds me of ~1999)
14:55
@thecoshman Several people I know round here now have 4G contracts. There is no 4G coverage.
@milleniumbug and without any training I'm faster walking than flying a fighter jet, what's you're point?
@BartekBanachewicz It's all about preferences/priorities, I admit
@R.MartinhoFernandes lel
@R.MartinhoFernandes people don't count
@sehe I'm serious. The race cars just go on the truck.
14:56
1 2 3 4 5 6 ...
I'm a robot
@sehe and permissions/privileges/ownership.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know. Obviously I meant, "parking assist on their race cars". It's just not a prio feature, and having it would get in the way of the prio features
also FTR I like being supported by companies that make the hardware, not random dudes on the internet more
Failure to park correctly on the start boxes has resulted in disqualification before.
seriously, what's the law say about ISP jsut deciding they want to charge me more for stuff I don't want?
14:58
@thecoshman depends on what's in the contract
Ell
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not sure what you mean by that. Hardware companies support linux
Not all obviously
but not all support windows
0
Q: Autobanh|Cpp and Boost::when_all composite futures

fguertinFor the past month I've been looking at WAMP and Autobanh|Cpp and I decided to start experimenting. I've successfully installed Autobahn and cloned Autobahn|Cpp library (and the examples) from this. But there seems to be an issue with building the examples (using Scons). Example call2.cpp relies ...

@sehe Well, I do not remember much of significant configuration when starting to use Ubuntu few years back. Nothing, that I would not have to do on Windows as well.
Interesting, never heard of Autobahn|Cpp
@BartekBanachewicz ¬_¬ I thought so...
14:58
@thecoshman Fuck knows. They seem to get way with selling stuff that customers cannot use at all.
@Ell doesn't mean they support it on equal level
for example, for mobile software companies, android is almost always a second goal
Ell
Ell
I'm confused
@BartekBanachewicz sadly very true. There is some what of an expectation that you are able to help yourself
for GPU producers the same goes for windows/linux
@BartekBanachewicz 'cos profit-margin is higher on fruit?

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