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22:00
I'm writing a Telnet server kinda you see
Disconnecting is a p useful feature
@Abyx boy, keep it together
I think I love this woman today
@sehe why feed such noobs?
@Abyx In the hope it'll help them learn, perhaps?
@Abyx You obviously haven't paid much attention.
He's not a noob either. He's just better at assembly than at mousing around in uis or using google :/
22:04
why not feed a noob?
Oh hey I accidentally wrote buffering right
What the fuck is happening?
Also why is Tony always playing the budget game on steam? :D
Budgeting is v important
> 333 hrs on record
someone needs to budget his time better, it seems :D
22:06
Steam tracking software use time is dumb btw
@Mysticial Hi
Can you bring back channel search on tubyube
@jalf He lives in (or at least close to) London so his rent is almost certainly quite unreasonable, leaving little for the more important parts of life.
Well, I think I need to eat. TTYAL.
@jalf He leaves it open whilst he does other stuff.
22:11
3 hours ago, by sehe
@Rapptz Wow. Privacy must die
Privacy is nonexistent
user3010322
@TemplateRex He forgot to mention how buggy they are, or how they break very often.
You missed the semantically loaded cough
ho boy.
I need to clean up my constructor-generating code.
120 lines just to define a constructor where one initialization is very slightly funky.
and it's duplicated between Function, UserDefinedType, and AggregateType too.
Ell
Ell
22:30
When is RISUG going to be available in the UK. Hormonal birth control is kind of bad imho
what even is RISUG
Ell
Ell
Male birth control
Injection in your vas deferens which zaps sperm electrolytically on the way out
No known side effects, extremely effective, reversible. The ideal birth control basically
so basically, it's like a vasectomy but you can have it reversed if you want.
Ell
Ell
And no hormonal business
@puppy yeah basically
the Wikipedia page says that the trials concluded weren't done properly
so it's hard to argue that it really is any of those things
Ell
Ell
22:33
Yeah I guess
It does kind if sound too good to be true
I dunno
things that seem too good to be true sometimes are true.
I mean, the integrated circuit, for example, is the gift that just keeps on giving.
Ell
Ell
Yeah its amazing
caveat
it isn't reversible 100%
it's just a little more likely to be reversible compared to a vasectomy
a vasectomy can be reversed it's just not 100% either
but when it comes to medical treatments, I always believe things are too good to be true.
there's just too much variance amongst the human race, and the human body is too complex a piece of machinery.
Ell
Ell
Well we'll see what its like once it's been through trials
22:38
pretty much.
Ell
Ell
@deadmg once we get designer drugs I think things will be better
Albeit probably more expensive
the problem with designer drugs is that we have little understanding of the thing we're designing them for.
although you're right that DNA sequencing is becoming exceptionally cheap.
but nobody really knows how much it would cost to manufacture different versions of each drug, for example.
What?
What do you guys think designer drugs are?
Honest question.
well, they're drugs that are targetted at a specific individual given knowledge of specifics about them, usually their DNA I believe.
rather than giving everybody with a specific condition the same drugs.
22:40
party drugs, right
a designer drug is an illegal drug (e.g. heroin) that is slightly modified so it isn't technically illegal
A designer drug is a structural or functional analog of a controlled substance that has been designed to mimic the pharmacological effects of the original drug while at the same time, avoid being classified as illegal and/or avoid detection in standard drug tests. Designer drugs include psychoactive substances that have been designated by the European Union as new psychoactive substances (NPS) as well as analogs of performance-enhancing drugs such as designer steroids. Some of these were originally synthesized by academic or industrial researchers in an effort to discover more potent derivatives...
@JerryCoffin then teach him how to learn stuff by himself. E.g. press F1 and read, instead of writing questions elsewhere.
hmm
that's definitely a different use of designer drug.
anyone has an opinion on utfcpp.sourceforge.net?
22:41
but it's not coincidental that Ell and I have the same (different) conception of it.
maybe it's just an older term or a Britishism
user3010322
@nightcracker Works well for encoding and decoding. Not a clue if it does normalization and other goodies.
user3010322
In other news, making raster fonts with FreeType is actually quite nice.
if anyone has something better, let me know
@ThePhD I didn't know it had an actual library?
Robot was working on Ogonek but it's halted
22:42
nyaa is under ddos it seems
user3010322
If you're compiling for GCC or Clang just use ogonek.
@nightcracker Oh right. I was confusing it with a similar looking page about Unice in C++
@ThePhD not targetting a particular compiler
@ThePhD good advice: don't take library advice from thephd
user3010322
22:43
Basic usage of ogonek works. I can't really argue with that.
user3010322
If you want something more substantial than just encoding and decoding, then use ICU.
user3010322
Or Boost's ICU.
I.e. if you're writing anything other than iconv
@ThePhD cough Boost Locale cough
yay, compiled my first sample with an imported constructor.
22:46
ugh
downloaded ICU4C
MARZIPAN <3
@nightcracker Yeah... have fun with that.
why does it have to be a 25 million file project with a build system
ICU's API is bad by any standard.
isn't there anything better/more usable than ICU?
22:47
Python.
Boost Locale?
Ell
Ell
Nothing as we'll tested IIRC
user3010322
2 mins ago, by sehe
@ThePhD cough Boost Locale cough
22:48
lol
I source dived into a random file of ICU
* Find the "true anomaly" (longitude) of an object from
* its mean anomaly and the eccentricity of its orbit. This uses
* an iterative solution to Kepler's equation.
Ell
Ell
I'm going to be so lonely this year
What is the matter?
why on earth is a unicode library so fucking bloated it contains orbit computation functions?
Are you going to buy 12 dozen stink bombs?
user3010322
He's fucked too many ladies and now they all know his game.
Ell
Ell
22:49
All my friends are leaving for univerity and I'm not until next year!
@nightcracker it's not unicode only
@Ell Visit their homes.
@nightcracker calendaring, location dependent moon phases?
> In order to achieve this goal Boost.Locale uses the-state-of-the-art Unicode and Localization library: ICU - International Components for Unicode.
So, a wrapper
22:53
user3010322
#include <freetype/ft2build.h>
#include FT_FREETYPE_H
#include FT_GLYPH_H
user3010322
Interesting inclusion system, I forgot to mention earlier.
Ell
Ell
@polymorph I will I guess
so... I'm actually doing C++ now. Does anyone know any good books for moving towards game development, preferably?
22:54
Good books for C++ and game development... oh boy, you're fucked.
@corvid all books generally suck. reading blogs/forums is way more useful.
hence the "moving towards" game development. Like the essentials that lean towards that
@nightcracker it's one of the only gamedev related things I've read that I didn't hate actually
@corvid "game developers" are legendary for being shit programmers.
22:56
but it's down atm it seems
a shame
I thought game developers were supposed to be really good, it seems inherently complex
not for me?
it is for me :<
nor for me.
@corvid what exactly seems complex?
22:57
@corvid They do produce programs that somewhat work under a tight deadline; but their code is typically pure shit.
well, graphics seem very complex imo. There seems to just be a lot of small details in game programming
Ell
Ell
Graphics is complex
λ ping www.gameprogrammingpatterns.com
Ping request could not find host www.gameprogrammingpatterns.com. Please check the name and try again.
that doesn't matter.
22:58
Everything is complex.
what matters is how much you have to deal with them.
~~~patterns~~
programming is about scale.
everything is easy on a small scale.
if you believe that the subset of game programming known as graphics programming, which can be incredibly complex, has any shared skillset with C++ programming you're mistaken
22:59
plus, programming a GPU is a very different story to programming a CPU.
OpenGL/D3D and making it do what you want to do can require some exceptional thinking
anyway
but that thinking is way more math related than programming
I'm off to bed, since my drugs are kicking in
if you're more into the complex math behind graphics programming I can recommend iquilezles.org/www/index.htm
23:00
@nightcracker I feel like you still have to have at least passing knowledge of how graphics work, no?
just don't learn to code from "game developers", because the vast majority of them can't.
@corvid what?
@corvid who is "you" in this scenario?
from what little I've seen of Starbound's code, it seems nice.
Let's just say you're making a small scale, 3D game, from OpenGL and C++. All you do is walk around in a room, and press e to interact with an object in some way. What would a programmer need to know for that?
@corvid oh HELL no
you are NOT making ANYTHING 3d for at least the coming few months
23:03
Use Unity.
I've made something in 3D in java ._.
I thought you wanted to learn something =/
@nightcracker just stop -.-;
although it is pretty terrible. I figured first step would be basic side scroller. I'm talking about LAST steps, though. Maybe 2 years from now of practice.
23:04
sure you can hack around snippets of bullshit you've found all over the place, put them together with more bullshit and end up with something that seems to be working in the way you want it, but at that point you're just bruteforcing through trial and error and not learning anything
@corvid Well, you'd need a good book in C++ first. Disregarding the game programming parts. Then you could use Nicol Bolas' OpenGL tutorial to get you started there.
Then.. the rest is on your own.
ooo, that looks like a really comprehensive tutorial
basically, graphics programming is a totally different skillset from general computing programming
Xeo
Xeo
Well fuck, dat Aldnoah episode
I am proud of myself.
23:06
but glueing your graphics programming together is going to be hard if you can't do regular programming
@corvid You have to learn C++ first, then learn the game programming bits.
Sometimes I cry because of how awesome I am.
You shouldn't do both at the same time, IMO.
yeah, of course. Done some basic C++ but nothing interesting
@corvid try writing a program that reads a file filled with numbers, sorts them and then outputs the file again
23:07
corvid isn't absolutely new to programming
@nightcracker :v
sorted(map(float, open(filename).read().split(' ')))
print(open(filename).read())
hehe. nobody said something about saving the sorted contents, right
@PolymorphicPotato will fail if the numbers are too large
2/10
Underspecified requirements indeed result in unexpected behaviour.
23:09
what do you mean?
in python that's just print(sorted([int(x) for x in open('./numbers.txt').readlines()]))
1000000000000000 is unambiguously a number, no?
yet it fails in your program
maybe have to add a few zeroes to that, didn't check
How would you have written the program?
Note that XIV is also a number, as is 三.
23:11
I would've asked for number ranges, accepted formats and what the delimiter is first
Program will have to be able to deal with those, obviously.
It will also have to guess the base if it's written using Arabic numerals.
tried googling 三
google went full chinese
or what I assume to be chinese
@nightcracker No, it doesn't.
Python has built-in support for bignum.
23:12
@Rapptz not if you use float
corvid used int.
which I guess is wrong too
>>> float('1000000000000000')
1000000000000000.0
>>> type(float('1000000000000000'))
<class 'float'>
@Rapptz but polymorphic didn't
since it's long in Py2 and int doesn't exist in Py3k.
>>> float('1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000')
1e+90
>>> type(float('1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000'))
<class 'float'>
23:12
2 mins ago, by nightcracker
maybe have to add a few zeroes to that, didn't check
@Rapptz int does exist in python3, I used python3 for my program
then I guess it's long that doesn't exist
>>> float('1' + ('0' * 10000))
inf
:D
so int is the bignum type in Py3k
@Rapptz long and int were unified in Python 3.
23:13
Well, is anyone going to count those '0'?
@MartinJames 91
@Rapptz lol
I hate seeing books labelled "intermediate"... how does one even know if they're intermediate?
They are overly self-confident.
@corvid when you wake up enlightened, yet feel hung over
23:15
@MartinJames 1e+**90** :p
markdown failure
Insert zero-width space.
Maybe it works!
@nightcracker googolplex must also work regardless of the amount of physical memory available.
@PolymorphicPotato of course
You are a true customer.
@nightcracker I guess 'advanced' is when you are hungover, but you don't care anyway.
if the hard drive is large enough to contain the two files it should be able to work
23:18
You're forgetting about memory
and of course, 41 < the answer to life the universe and everything < 43
@nightcracker how about... three? (just guessing here)
@CatPlusPlus comparing incredibly large numbers can be done efficiently in constant space
You know what else can be done efficiently in constant space
sleeping
Needs proof
23:20
purroof
buttroof
has anyone here ever provided a patch to libstdc++?
No, only an abandonment request.
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes Can an individual glyph have its own kerning information?
I have to choose a programming language for which a decent WebSocket server implementation exists.
user3010322
It seems like FreeType demands you use 2 glyphs to specifying the kerning information..
23:25
@nightcracker Yes.
user3010322
@PolymorphicPotato C#.
Hurray, Haskell WebSocket implementation is experimental. What a fucking surprise.
> Elixir
@LucDanton how'd that go?
I have a performance patch for std::sort that improves sorting performance on pre-sorted arrays by like 30%
@nightcracker ..and has a performance impact on not-pre-sorted arrays of what?
@MartinJames nope
it's a bugfix essentially, because the current stdlibc++ implementation throws away information
23:30
@nightcracker Oh... OK:)
@nightcracker he didn't explicitly say he had :)
@nightcracker The paper process (for copyright assignment) was the annoying part. Had to ping the person in charge after a few weeks, turned out they had forgotten to process me—then had to go for another round since they sent me the glibc papers rather than the libstdc++ ones. In comparison the actual patch went swell, people fixed it in my behalf (_Uglyfication is hard) rather than send it back for me to fix.
if you know how quicksort works, then I can explain it: after partitioning around the pivot stdlibc++ doesn't actually put it into the correct position
@sehe Yeah, bad habit. I should have said ‘I have’.
@nightcracker Oops...
23:32
@LucDanton The pleasure was all mine !
it's not a bug in output, because they recurse on it again, but it does hurt performance
@LucDanton 'paper process'? Physically?
@nightcracker Regardless of whether your contribution is small enough for the copyright assignment process (and I have no idea how that is determined), feel free to submit it/start a discussion. They are nice people. (Although if you’re like me and don’t like mailing lists you’ll have to bear that bit.) Note that a feature enhancements may go in the bug tracker instead, I don’t remember.
@LucDanton well I have one main problem
@Rapptz Thankfully, only half of it nowadays. You get an electronic document, print it and sign it, then send it so that it’s filed. So for the second round I had to wait a comparatively short time… not more than two weeks!
I really got the impression that their lawyers are swamped :)
23:36
my solution is either ineffecient or ABI incompatible with internal stdlibc++ stuff
of course exposed ABI doesn't change
that sounds like such a chore
for some reason stdlibc++ likes to turn a comparison function (val, val) into a wrapper function that takes one value and one iterator (val, iter), which is less generic and conflicts with my usage
@nightcracker It sounds like you want to start a discussion more than anything else (note that you can still show the patch), i.e. discuss it on libstdc++ rather than gcc-patches directly. Or the bug tracker.
@PolymorphicPotato ThePhD has a working one on async/await
async/await owns
Couldn't care less about async/await.
23:38
@PolymorphicPotato websockets aren't rocket science. You could write the implementation yourself on top of a regular sockets api
Nothing is rocket science except rocket science
that's very true
I have six users. :v
I'm a nerd and I find Telnet RFCs funny help
@PolymorphicPotato So? async/await is about making flow understandable not ~~~preformance~~~
Eruca sativa (syn. E. vesicaria subsp. sativa (Miller) Thell., Brassica eruca L.) is an edible annual plant, commonly known as salad rocket, roquette, rucola, rucoli, rugula, colewort, and, in the United States, arugula. It is sometimes conflated with Diplotaxis tenuifolia, the perennial wall rocket, another plant of the Brassicaceae family, which in the past was used in the same manner. Eruca sativa, which is widely popular as a salad vegetable, is a species of Eruca native to the Mediterranean region, from Morocco and Portugal in the west to Syria, Lebanon and Turkey in the east. The Lati...
^rocket science
23:41
@CatPlusPlus I could spawn a thread for each socket just as well. :v
And it would read and write equally easily except without the async and await keywords and without Task.
Yes that makes flow much better
I don't say it does.
It's the same.
Not really, no
Let me rephrase.
It reads the same.
You can now watch my C++Now 2014 presentation, "C++11 Library Design". Voted best presentation. Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgOF4NrQllo
:D
23:44
that audio is terrible
is the guy at the bottom left ish of the screen on IRC? o.o
It's very unusual yes
> You've seen this talk before, what the hell.
rofl
@Borgleader ?
at ~18 min ish

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