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8:00 AM
is this a bad time for C++?
 
user1646075
@edition it's the weekend and we're all drunk or heading that way, so you probably shouldn't use any answers you're likely to get.
 
ok. thanks anyway. Enjoy the alcohol.
 
user1646075
heh. No probs. Tell us a story.
 
well, still undecided between GTK+ and Qt.
any ideas?
 
user1646075
try them both, see which feels best.
 
8:06 AM
GTK seems quicker, but theres no free ebooks.
whereas Qt has heaps of documentation
 
user1646075
doco is always good. and persuasive.
 
I prefer using C, for some reason.
 
user1646075
Fear of letting go.
 
correct
 
user1646075
Is it just me, or does the map on GTA V look like a scientific diagram of the side-view of a male human's pelvic region, showing all the essential equipment of the region?
 
8:08 AM
female game developers, or just another map on GTA V.
 
user1646075
hmmm - maybe it's just the lower fragment of the map that's currently exposed, pardon the pun.
 
in the real world, I have just graduated high school. And in need of a job.
 
user1646075
You have your whole life ahead of you. Work hard, party harder, don't waste a precious day.
 
user1646075
or you'll become jaded and end up on a chatroom somewhere.
 
yeah, my 18th is going to be great. anyway, stackoverflow is good.
 
8:12 AM
@aclarke Confirmed
 
user1646075
and never say 'no' to an opportunity. Don't be too picky. At first.
 
whats wrong with Lounge<C++>?
 
Ell
@edition You can't leave
 
is it possible to communicate in C++?
 
user1646075
@edition We're all slightly senile, ready for zimmer frames. We chew our toothless gums complaining about the young-uns and their crazy rapping music.
 
user1646075
8:14 AM
@edition some people dream in C++, sure.
 
but then you would have to define a protocol, and error handling... nevermind
 
user1646075
@Ell In the lounge, you can't even check out.
 
user1646075
@edition or use a library.
 
why not Lobby<C++>?
 
user1646075
HotelCalifornia<C++> Now that was when music was worth listening to. The Eagles. Muddy Waters. Lucille Bogan.
 
8:16 AM
Im 17, and enjoy the Eagles.
didn't the Eagles have a fight?
 
user1646075
I guess the whole world has an MOR radio station. Most of them probably.
 
what music does Linus Torvalds listen to?
 
user1646075
@edition Probably Kraftwerk. and Daft Punk.
 
Ell
 
8:21 AM
"Linus: '60s, Beatles, whatever. Perhaps the Beatles is a bit before what I consider classic rock, but it's kind of borderline."
 
Ell
Poor RelativeLayout
 
It is useless (no children)... haha
 
user1646075
@Ell No children? At least it's smart.
 
and no style.
I just realized that most OS'es are written in C.
 
user1646075
@edition because they were started 25, 35 years ago.
 
8:24 AM
start again?
 
user1646075
nowadays people would probably use JVM or CLI
 
nevermind
 
user1646075
heh
 
user1646075
no point starting again. There's a few out there, but mere curiosities and labours of love. eg BEOS, IOS.
 
why isn't there an emulator for IOS?
 
user1646075
8:28 AM
lack of interest? It's basically BSD Unix as far as I know.
 
and where's the ubuntu phone?
 
user1646075
it's developers are still trying to finish the interface with GTK. No documentation.
 
maybe Google is to blame...
 
user1646075
@edition Probably for everything. They're going to be the Evil Empire of the 21st century. First you had IBM, then Microsoft, ... And dishonourable mention to Oracle for trying so hard to be universally evil.
 
when Microsoft releases the full source code to Windows NT, all will be forgiven.
 
user1646075
8:34 AM
just reverse-engineer it. not too hard, just a bit time consuming.
 
Pixar used closed source features of Microsoft DirectX, in their applications.
(very few though)
 
user1646075
I needs dinner. What's cooking, @Ell? How's that black puddin' coming along?
 
your British!
 
user1646075
no, Ell is. he moonlights as a chef in a traditional English inn.
 
illumos looks interesting...
 
Xeo
8:43 AM
@CatPlusPlus Tch, pussy cat.
 
Ell
@aclarke It's not, I haven't had the will power to get off my bum yet :P
Also I already have pasta to eat from yesterday so I think I'll have that instead
I will make a full english at some point though, and I'll ping you when I do :P
 
user1646075
sorry, was just checking the lines. the bream should be coming in shortly - the sun has set and the tide is rising
 
user1646075
@Ell pics or it didn't happen.
 
user1646075
I'll do a full aussie breakfast one day and post pics. Bacon, crocodile eggs, kangaroo sausages, vegemite toast.
 
user1646075
and beer.
 
Ell
8:51 AM
haha
 
what do NZ'ers have for breakfast, usually...
Toast.
 
user1646075
Kea eggs and weta sausages.
 
we have cattle, and pigs.
 
user1646075
and 3 sheep for every human
 
user1646075
and hobbitses
 
8:55 AM
only in Matamata.
Is this a good example of a Breakfast? static.au.groupon-content.net/06/42/1323734984206.jpg
 
rip rocks
 
user1646075
@edition needs black puddin'
 
user1646075
what else, @Ell?
 
no thanks.
 
Ell
@aclarke hash browns!
 
8:59 AM
yes.
 
hello all
just had an issue
 
with breakfast, or C++?
 
can we do select * from table without using * in it
 
C++?
 
user1646075
8:59 AM
@BhawinParkeria Only in the new C++14 spec.
 
16
Q: ◳◰ ◓◨ ◨◧◕ ◎◌ ◱◯◱◯ ◍◌○ ◉◉ ◇◔◓◕ ◐►◓◒ ◒◑ ◈◑ ◆◆◓ ◉◉◉

A E◳◰ ◓◨ ◨◧◕ ◎◌ ◱◯◱◯ ◍◌○ ◉◉ ◇◔◓◕ ◐►◓◒ ◒◑ ◈◑ ◆◆◓ ◉◉◉ Administrative details (not part of the puzzle): The answer is a clue to The Security to the Party [12] (now with party soundtrack!) which is currently unsolved and has a bounty for the first person to solve it. For the benefit of anyone witho...

 
9:24 AM
@sehe I guess I should be flattered cause you quoted me on Twitter, unless the "OH" means something bad? :-p
 
user1646075
overheard?
 
user1646075
if so, it's an "OMG, OH this:"
 
user1646075
thanks for the link back to there, found this:
 
user1646075
@BenjaminGruenbaum WRONG! But you'll never know if you haven't got one.
 
user1646075
Not one-boxed to avoid upsetting the squeamish: cirp.org/pages/anat
 
user1804599
9:44 AM
@Jefffrey no
 
user1804599
And I'm not interested.
 
Xeo
9:56 AM
> I made a mistake last night, which deleted 1800GB of my File-Server unintentionally
brilliant
 
user1804599
Just reset from backup.
 
user1646075
@Xeo who did this? You? at least it'll still be on the cloud.
 
Xeo
19
Q: I made a mistake last night, which deleted 1800GB of my File-Server unintentionally

somethingSomethingI ran this command yesterday, I thought on a test machine, but it was a File-Server connected through SSH. sudo rm -rf /tmp/* !(lost+found) My terminal emulator is Konsole. My system is Debian 7. Question: Did this command delete other files than the files in /tmp?

 
user1646075
start with the backups. Don't forget the level 1's and the transaction logs.
 
user1646075
ouch!
 
Ell
10:02 AM
@Xeo ohhh ouch
 
user1646075
I once did a thing like that ;-( Took me close to 12 hours to repair the damage. And machines were much smaller at the time
 
user1804599
> The church has survived because it's an early implementation of the OSI stack!
 
Ell
what is this called? !(lost+found)
 
user1804599
A type error.
 
user1646075
@Ell it's an extended pattern in shell. !(whatever is inside here)
 
user1646075
10:11 AM
not
 
@Xeo this.
 
@Xeo feel free to organise the winter unconference :p
 
user1646075
general syntax: op(a|b|c) where op can be: * means zero or more. + means one or more. ? is 0:1 ! is not. @ exactly one. a b and c are either simple, old-style patterns or recursive application of the same operators. Very Tasty. In bash you need to use shopt -s extglob
 
bash sucks.
I think I'll rewrite our resource building shell scripts in C#
 
Ell
factorio looks good
 
10:14 AM
And people please, update the damn wiki [age if you have (decent) thoughts about the unconference!
 
user1646075
Yes! ksh 4eva. Pity it wasn't open-sourced way back - then bash would never exist.
 
fuck all shells
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz Perl.
 
@aclarke what the fuck dude get away from me with that
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz Shell is organic.
 
user1646075
10:15 AM
heh.
 
this pearl thing is even worse than rubby
 
user1646075
Haskell? surely
 
haskell isn't particularly good at doing dumb things
sometimes you want to do dumb things in a dumb way and C# is perfect for that
 
user1646075
CPAN ftw.
 
is that another way to say Child Porn
 
user1646075
10:17 AM
heh. but it won't fit that same niche as shell when it comes to running many programs as slaves.
 
user1646075
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network. fucking huge repository of wild and wonderful libraries. It's what makes Perl useful.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Pron featuring children?
 
@aclarke lol wonderful
next thing we see you hyping PHP here
the fuck is wrong with people
seriously Perl is a language that's ambiguous in execution by design
 
user1646075
heh. I don't mind explioting other people's work. Saves a lot of time.
 
how the fuck can anyone can call that piece of crap "wonderful"
@aclarke never opposed that
 
user1804599
10:21 AM
Perl is good.
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz it saved me a lot of time many times, and for that I thank it and all the crazy people donating code.
 
But if you're suggesting that exploiting that work is OK in any form then you might as well go back to slavery
 
user1804599
wat
 
user1804599
Bartek you're not allowed to use any libraries written by someone else anymore.
 
And if that strikes you as wrong then perhaps you could fucking reevaluate the need for Perl's existence
@rightføld bullshit.
 
user1804599
10:21 AM
No.
 
user1804599
You are confusing volunteering with slavery.
 
why would you even bring perl around here
it's like going into someone's house and shitting on the table
 
user1804599
No, it's not.
 
it's similarly disgusting
 
user1804599
10:22 AM
Perl is sweet pears.
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, i really should have said that I invited the libraries onto my machine, we had a round-table discussing what we all felt we could contribute.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz It's not bullshit. You are enslaving the libraries' authors.
 
user1646075
Perl is crazy, which appeals to me.
 
Ell
I'm p sure I'm gonna buy this game
 
I'm going to fucking repost this everytime someone says this shit
 
user1646075
10:23 AM
whereas Java is boring as batshit, and assumes we are all so stupid we need to wear helmets when we code.
 
your misunderstanding of language principles is stunning
 
user1804599
I want Perl on JVM.
 
or perhaps you never work on code with others
 
user1646075
Your average Haskell programmer:
 
user1646075
 
Ell
10:25 AM
@BartekBanachewicz aclarke?
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, I totally fail to understand getters and setters
 
@aclarke sigh
 
user1804599
Perl is one of the few languages with a decent ecosystem.
 
yes that was what I was talking about
 
user1804599
That's the primary reason I like it.
 
user1646075
10:26 AM
@rightføld <<== this.
 
JAVA IS GETTERS AND SETTERS AND DUMB AND HELMETS USE C OR PERL BECAUSE DANGEROUS
fucking idiots.
 
user1804599
CPAN is particularly nice because you have to get permission before you can upload.
 
user1804599
Similar to Maven Central.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz what is the point of getters and setters?
 
@Ell to get and set properties of objects
also think twice before asking me trick questions
 
Ell
10:28 AM
But I mean, why not just have public members?
 
I haven't finished my coffee yet
 
user1804599
Setters suck. Getters are nice because you can change the underlying implementation. Accessing fields directly is low-level detail.
 
@Ell because objects are inherently mutable, and as such they can have side effects
 
user1804599
Boilerplate generation is necessary, but any sane language provides that.
 
user1646075
a.set(b.getReal() + c.getReal(), b.getImag() + c.getImag())
 
user1646075
10:28 AM
awesome
 
user1804599
Objects can't have side-effects.
 
user1804599
You cannot evaluate objects.
 
if your language allows syntax sugar that treats direct property access as overloadable accessors then it's just syntax sugar
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz the setters of course should have one side effect - setting the property
ie setting the member
 
user1804599
Mutable objects are terrible. Therefore setters are terrible.
 
10:29 AM
@Ell not necessarily. Classical OOP principles don't forbid other side effects.
 
user1804599
He said "should" not "can"
 
@rightføld true. But immutable objects aren't idiomatic in Java.
 
user1804599
Yes, but Java is shit.
 
of course it's shit.
 
user1804599
I don't know where you got Java from.
 
10:30 AM
6 mins ago, by aclarke
whereas Java is boring as batshit, and assumes we are all so stupid we need to wear helmets when we code.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I think they do
 
user1646075
I accused Java programmers of being
 
user1646075
yes.
 
user1804599
Ah, I see.
 
Ell
also java doesn't even have properties does it?
 
user1646075
10:31 AM
also riding the short bus.
 
user1804599
@Ell Of course not. That would hide boilerplate.
 
@aclarke you picked one of the worst reasons to criticize java and that made me angry FTR
 
user1804599
Bartek angry? Good.
 
nothing uncommon eh
okay I've vented out
Let's talk about something really, really cool
I found it today
 
I don't know why C++ doesn't have properties yet, (also modules, but that one's already been moaned to death).
 
user1804599
10:32 AM
Let's try Factorio.
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz heh thanks for the giggle. I'm just being lazy. There's many reasons to criticize.
 
user1804599
I've been waiting for that game for a long time.
 
user1804599
Apparently the demo is out.
 
user1804599
> factorio quit unexpectedly.
 
user1804599
10:33 AM
top kek
 
user1804599
> SIGSEGV
 
user1804599
won'tbuy/10
 
what it's written in, out of curiosity?
 
user1804599
do I know vOv ask the authors
 
10:34 AM
hm it uses Allegro
> The game crashes on OSX Yosemite
We are aware of this and we will try to fix this as soon as we get access to a Yosemite dev machine.
 
user1804599
Allegro is nice.
 
Easier to find 1000 bucks on the street
Fuck OSX
 
user1646075
"For this reason, we decided that all SQL would be written in plain SQL." That's always a good idea, as long as you don't mind either some lock-in or being very careful with complex queries and all DDL.
 
user1804599
SQL generation is fine.
 
user1804599
It's ORMs that are batshit insane complicated rubbish.
 
10:36 AM
I'm with rightfold on this one.
 
user1804599
Me too.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'd like to pull you into this thread and hear your opinion
 
I've reached a conclusion that lock-in is fine and being able to switch databases is detrimental to the product
Fuck lowest common denominators
I want to use database features not be reduced to whatever MySQL can do
 
user1646075
@rightføld some sort of tasteful embellishment of a 'standard-SQL' can work. I used a system that coped with Orrible, DB2, Informix, Sybase, Progress, SQL Server. All with minimal special-casing in the app code. I think they had some intense programmers in the team for that product.
 
@CatPlusPlus the article says p much that
 
user1646075
10:38 AM
@CatPlusPlus generally agree, but for a while, one place I worked suffered from a rash of customers demanding NT servers 'cos they were the latest fashion.
 
@aclarke And how many of those were actually tested
 
> We decided instead to leverage our preferred database, PostgreSQL, as heavily as possible, keeping our database logic centralized and our application thin.
 
when the standard says "If an exception is thrown during <some operation> there are no effects." it of course implies strong exception safety, but does it also mean you'll have to silence the exception by catching it?
 
I tried to do that in first iteration of Macro Harvest prototyping
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus All. My site supported Oracle, SQL Server and Informix at an approximately equal spread of customers. Other customers also did a lot of DB2 and Progress.
 
10:39 AM
Because what usually happens is that you have one database everyone uses, maybe SQlite for Bad Development Habits, and the rest doesn't work anyway
cf: every fucking PHP project that touts support for multiple databases
 
I'm offended you mention PHP in this Lounge
 
user1646075
PHP just exposes native doesn't it?? Not that I care to have an answer ;-)
 
user1646075
@TonyTheLion is it ok if we pan it?
 
@CatPlusPlus hihi
 
10:41 AM
Kill it with fire
 
user1646075
"That abomination we dare not speak the name of"
 
@aclarke Sounds horrible to maintain
 
user1646075
@CatPlusPlus wasn't our problem! They did a great job, and I am impressed with the guys who did it.
 
user1646075
10:43 AM
it started incrementally, and they hammered through all the customer feedback, and made a damned fine product.
 
user1646075
@BartekBanachewicz not if you count the feedback and iterations.
 
user1646075
it's ok though, it wasn't exploitation, they got paid.
 
also BTW I'd like to use C# for those scripts because I was thinking about GUI
 
Factorio is fun
 
is it?
 
10:50 AM
Though I should probably go grab some food
 
nice
Mongoose has builds with Lua
 
user1646075
@orlp he was almost purring an hour ago. Must have been building a catnip factory. Speaking of which, has anyone ever seen an actual cat which actually gets drunk on catnip, or have all my cats been mormons?
 
user1646075
(thanks wiki, confirming mormons eschew intoxicants)
 
Ell
hmm
How do I feed coal to a machine
to a smelter
it seems to just accept ore
 
@Ell try using a shovel
 
user1646075
10:56 AM
Avatar on teev. What a gorgeous movie. Altenative: Lord of the Rings for the 30th time; The Twilight Saga. Blue people it is.
 
@Ell also tell the damn machine its place - it's a machine, it must accept whatever the fuck you feed it
 
user1646075
@Ell Aren't children the traditional English method?
 
user1646075
down't'mine by goom.
 
Ell
damn I spaced stuff too close together
man I'm an idiot
unless I utilise both sides of the belt... hmm
@CatPlusPlus this game is awesome thank you
 
Ell
11:20 AM
hmm where does it say how much power I'm generating
 
hi Ell
 
I'm going to learn C#.
 
@Ell Click on any electric pole
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion hi
@CatPlusPlus oh yeah. cheers, I thought I tried that but it works thanks
 
@Ell how are you?
 
Ell
11:25 AM
I'm well, how are you?
oh wait./ I'm going to be late
damn this game
 
I'm good
late for work?
 
Ell
@TonyTheLion gotta dash, I'll be back later!
@TonyTheLion yep
 
ok bye
 
Ell
bye :)
 
user1646075
good luck, stay cool.
 
user1646075
11:26 AM
don't leer.
 
its not hard staying cool in Britain :P
 
11:39 AM
Indeed
Its actually quite sunny today
 
Using allocator stuff is not easy. Spent way too long on this and it's probably gonna be wrong too.
 
user1646075
you're from UK?
 
Here in the swamp
 
user1646075
I always assumed Norway, what with the .no No.
 
user1646075
Swamp?
 
11:44 AM
Yep
 
user1646075
That's near Scunthorpe?
 
@aclarke Puppy is secretly a frog
that's why he lives in a swamp
 
user1646075
ahhh.
 
Where's that?
 
user1646075
Frog, Dog. Good disguise.
 
11:46 AM
> Scunthorpe is a town in North Lincolnshire, England
 
user1646075
@Puppy England.
 
user1646075
and it usually falls foul of email filters
 
This simply raises the question of where is Lincolnshire
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked You should copy / move, and not keep references
 
user1646075
heh
 
Xeo
11:47 AM
If a user wants references, they can use std::ref
 
user1646075
Lancashire?
 
@Puppy maps.google.com will tell you
jeezus
 
@Xeo what part are your referring to?
 
Xeo
(i.e., use RemoveCV<F> instead of F in a couple places, like Impl<F>)
 
user1646075
11:48 AM
Yorkshire! Aye upp.
 
The smell of raw C++ brought @Xeo to the room.
Morning @Xeo
 
0
Q: C++: program version?

user1838462I have a C++ program which I run using borland 5.02, Its a GUI program. I need to analyze the program and its flow but the problem is I am not able to find the events of the control and I am not able to search about it in the internet as I am getting information about other C++ versions (I know i...

 
Xeo
oh, I've been here for a couple hours already
 
but you weren't talking
 
Google maps is shit on Windows Phone
 
11:49 AM
Your RemoveCV is misnamed..
 
Why are you on a phone?
 
It should be Unqualified
 
I'm in the swamp instead of civilization
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Oh yeah, that too
 
This Columbo guy answers a lot of questions lol
Do we have a dupe of "can't copy streams" anywhere?
 
11:56 AM
I think so but not sure
 
I'm not sure if this could be edited to be a sane answer lol
but it doesn't add anything of value anyway
 
@Xeo You mean I should take Function(F f) instead of Function(F&& f)?
 

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