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3:00 PM
Actually it sounds a lot like something that would benefit from some form of expression templates.
 
And GC reordering, ironically. :v
 
typically gamedev peeps are wary of templates as theres been quite a lot of historical exe bloat.
whether thats actually valid i have no idea
 
Yes, gamedevs are bad at C++, we know.
 
@MattD ouch. no way
 
There was a fairly famous one boasting on how he replaced std::list with array and got 1000x speedup.
 
3:01 PM
Yes, we know lots of programmers don't reason based on facts.
It's sad.
 
pff, exe bloat. games are 20+ GB now, what's a few more KB or MB
 
@CatPlusPlus hehe
 
@MattD It was somewhat true for compilers written in the last century. Nowadays compilers are damn near magical on their optimizing capabilities.
 
Of course as a proof that standard library is ~~~SLOW~~~
 
@CatPlusPlus i wouldnt say 1000x, but there is definatly an argument for replacing containers with more favourable allocator behavior for the types of problems we deal with
 
3:01 PM
@Insilico Not for games. Games are different.
 
@CatPlusPlus I don't remember if it was a hand-written array or a library-provided container. I hope the former.
 
@Insilico yup.
 
@LucDanton Statically sized C array.
 
switched from STL list to a fixed sized array for some stuff, and speed is up by a factor of 100. I expected maybe just double :D
 
@MattD You've missed the point.
 
3:02 PM
@MattD don't containers have allocators precisely so you can do that and still keep the container? :p
 
Heh, works just as well..
 
kind of. the case in question was dealing with fixed length data sets. known ahead of time. IIRC
again. i've been drinking :)
 
@melak47 Seriously, if you are using std::list, you cannot replace it with an array.
Just cannot.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's just shows that person doesn't know anything about algorithms and data structures.
 
you can if the data is the same size every time
 
3:03 PM
And if you can, you shouldn't have picked std::list in the first place.
 
well thats the point
 
@MattD No. If you can, you are doing it wrong and should get your programming license revoked until you learn to stop using lists first.
 
'hey im streaming in a fixed data set from disk which is 1000bytes in size..."
 
Well, the original point is that ~~successful game developer~~ knows shit-all about C++ or data structures.
And it's not really isolated.
 
It is. The standard library is a *lot* slower than the actual mathematics.
And if you do raytracing in C++, it's always extremely slow compared to real rays of light
 
3:04 PM
@CatPlusPlus aka core programming knowledge.
 
99% of the time, std is totally fine, with custom allocators
 
@CatPlusPlus Which you think they'd know something about data structures because the design of data structures directly affects how efficient your algorithms can be.
 
even without custom allocators, std is usually fine
 
The only time you need to use a std::list, is when you want iterators to stay alive if you modify the list.
 
@Insilico Gamedevs tend to live in 30 years ago.
 
3:05 PM
@MattD Ah, the backtracking begins
 
@m0nhawk It shows the example that was mentioned above and asked about.
 
what backtracking. i said there was one case :P
 
hi
 
And for ~~~performance~~~ they cling to half-truths and semi-facts that were true 30 years ago.
 
@BoltClock hi!
 
3:06 PM
im not sure about that either. we appraoch performance the same way as everyone else. profile profile profile
fix the algorithmic fuckups
 
@MattD No, you are jumping to the conclusion that an array should have been picked, which is a non-sequitur. std::array or std::vector are just fine for fixed size sequential random access sequences
 
@MattD the "I've been drinking" clause
 
@sehe what! laughs wtf? as i said, there was one case, which i cant remember exaclty
 
@sehe shudders std::dynarray
 
3:07 PM
@sehe i have :P it is 1am here :)
 
std::list with array-backed allocator, clearly.
 
@CatPlusPlus std::vector with list-backed allocator! Wait that's not gonna hurt much. (And actually isn't such a far cry from the default allocator implementations)
 
/me laughs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes std::deque in MSVC you mean?
:v
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, technically memory allocators nowadays uses free lists to manage memory segments. :-P
 
3:08 PM
@CatPlusPlus Yes, that's more like what I intended.
 
games is just like any other industry. there's good folk, and bad folk, and quite often, the bad folk are the one with big mouths :)
 
@Insilico Pre-empt'd! Via edit!
 
@CatPlusPlus Boost Intrusive then
 
@Insilico Yeah, I realised how dumb my intentionally dumb statement was. A different kind of dumbness than I intended, I mean.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Mission accomplished?
 
3:10 PM
@MattD Three guesses what category you're in :/
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: A metachatroom. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [meta-dumbness] [no-questions]
 
@sehe hah
 
@chris Many of them are Fremantle shows. How interesting.
 
@sehe you're entitled to your opinion. however wrong that may be
 
During my internship at Ludia, I sat right next to the QAs.
 
But seriously I still have lucenenet.apache.org/started.html open and laughing at it.
 
3:11 PM
lol
 
Right when they were busy testing The Price is Right.
I have that theme song burnt into my mind.
 
:(
 
If I ever burn something into my mind, it will be ZB.
 
Also, AAAA BRAAAAAND NEWWW TRAAAAAIIIILEEERRRRR
 
@EtiennedeMartel Fawut?
 
3:13 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes The one product they had to test was a trailer.
 
@sehe Hey! Leave my escape-clauses alone!
 
why the hell would they test a trailer?
 
So the game was repeatadly telling them that they could win A BRAAAAND NEWWW TRAILLEEEEEEERRRRR.
 
oh right, they won a trailer
faceplam
 
We named one of our engine releases "A brand new trailer" because of that.
 
3:14 PM
we had a guy on burnout revenge who's job it was, was to rub the car up against every surface to check the collision welding
he went a bit mad
 
And another one "The rice is right". But that's just a clever pun.
 
JBL
Wasn't there someone working at DICE on SO ?
 
@JBL I'm fairly sure there's a lot of people working at DICE on SO.
 
SO gets used a lot everyhwere
its a handy resource
 
JBL
I mean, someone quite active (not just readers or [one;ten] time poster).
 
3:15 PM
I like dice.
 
You're entitled to reply to specific messages.
So we can work out what the hell you're implying.
FTR. I don't have an opinion about your competence as a (game) dev. I was merely amused that you would point out a correlation between having a "big mouth" and being in the "bad game dec" section. :/
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh craps.
 
The lice are a plight
Three mice in flight
The nicest knight
The crisis might
 
SAM
Whoa! Crysis!
lol
 
Franchises, right?
 
SAM
3:19 PM
I just played it
 
@SAM No, crisis
 
@SAM You're such a player
 
SAM
@BoltClock ya but that reminded me the Crysis
 
@sehe I really dont know where i was going with that. I've worked with people who were very much afraid of modern c++, and those who were far better at it than I am. you can guess who was higher up the food chain ;) (ie: not me). personally its the area I'm weakest at when it comes to c++. mostly because I've never atually had a good excuse or problem to use it on. but as far as gamedevs go. there's many good, and many bad. for various reasons. similar to every other industry i've worked in.
 
SAM
@sehe :)
 
3:20 PM
@MattD I know. I've had to train to get anywhere with proper modern C++. And believe me, I did some proper C++ before that. SO was a big help there
 
SAM
@MattD You are a game dev..?
 
@sehe at a base level, i just like simple code.
 
SAM
Wow
 
@sam was
 
SAM
where?
 
3:21 PM
@sam i got sick of turning up to work wondering if i had a job that day
sega, thq, krome, ea/criterion
already feels like another lifetime ago :)
 
Organizing question: let's say I have a ParticleProcessor, and.. several kinds of particles. I want to have the particles in their own folder, so they are easy to find. Should the processor also go there, or in Engine/?
Now that I think of it, I feel I ask this question a lot. I don't even know why there is an Engine/
 
@CatPlusPlus Eh, I can only go so far from the notes. May try the video later once my mind clears up.
 
@MattD There. We all do. That's precisely why I favour modern C++. That said, this is what I posted yesterday and I'm perfectly fine with the simplicity of that (despite the apparent prominence of raw const char*!!!):
15 hours ago, by sehe
@StackedCrooked It's quite messy. I'm really struggling along. And I'm afraid the performance is gonna ... suck. It's a coding challenge from here and I've already solved it in C++
@Pawnguy7 Wut. Just. Wut.
 
Hm?
 
where to put stuff is often such a tricky decision, in the end it hardly matters because you can type > of <name> in the search bar
 
3:28 PM
Might be more of not wanting to break a bunch of #include's later.
 
'Japan's unwanted IT workers dumped in 'forcing-out rooms. Firms bore unwanted workers into bailing'.

Now, at last, I understand the purpose of JavaScript.
 
@Pawnguy7 Do whatever you like.
 
@MartinJames bwhahahaha
i have js so much. its so prevalent though. its like herpes
hate js so much
i give up
 
@MattD I'd rather have the STD's. At least you get to have some fun before you die.
 
bwhaha
it could be worse. it could be php
 
3:34 PM
@MartinJames Also, people know STDs are bad.
 
ah the one thing everyone hates more than gamedevs. hipster js webdevs
 
@MattD They don't necessarily have to be hipsters. :-P
 
i would love to have c# in the browser
that would make me happy
 
I suppose if I have friend int main(), I should probably fix this. Or get rid of it altogether.
 
I have a friend in youuuuuuuuu ("Ben", M.Jackson)
 
3:44 PM
> Since it's auto the garbage collector will handle deleting this.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Where's that from?
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's cringe-worthy, to say the least.
 
@Insilico It is TDWTF
 
3:50 PM
@EtiennedeMartel WOW!
 
The sad thing is that I could actually imagine someone writing that with all seriousness.
 
> // not sure why we're ever getting in here
 
		if (m_fFlip == TRUE)
		{
			m_fFlip = FALSE;
		}
		else if (m_fFlip == FALSE)
		{
			m_fFlip = TRUE;
		}
		else
		{
			// not sure why we're ever getting in here, but true flip floppers
                        // say 'no' first, so we should be okay
			m_fFlip = FALSE;
		}
		return m_fFlip;
"true flip floppers"?
 
The good old "file not found" branch.
 
@CatPlusPlus Apparently, file not found is basically false true (dammit)
 
3:51 PM
enum bool { true, false, file_not_found }
 
I'm sure you've all heard of the MsoTriState enumeration which actually has 5 values enumerators
 
> “Well, it’s Oracle, so it must be in a database table, right?” Of course not. It uses AOL Email.
 
Yes.
(3 are deprecated)
 
@Insilico More accurately, 5 enumerators, 2 values.
 
Well, they are all different values.
Just 3 are "not supported"
 
3:54 PM
So, a MsoTriState enumeration with 5 members and 2 valid values. MAKES COMPLETE SENSE.
 
This is what happens when you do try to lock programmers in a basement with several boxes of vodka.
 
@BoltClock Well thanks. I spent five minutes of my life rescanning that crap to try and find the FALSE :)
..and then, this turns up:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18537019/debugging-undebuggable-application-for-memory-corruption
 
@Insilico The "Tri" part is obviously because 5-2 = 3.
The "Mso" part is because WTF.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Something something 3 confirmed
 
@MartinJames "hell" is right.
 
3:58 PM
@MartinJames If I was to make a stab in complete darkness, I would say multithreading is involved.
 
Hi! What is easiest way to develop windows service in point of view of experienced C++ / Python developer? Is it would be easier to me to learn C# or should i go with C++ ? :)
 
@pavelkolodin I don't think you can write windows services in C# the last time I looked (this might not be true anymore now but I'm not positive)
 
C# is probably better for that, yes.
 
Or can i use Python? In this case i am afraid i will have to install python on client's machine before service and this will make installer more complex.
 
3:59 PM
@Insilico Uh, sure you can.
 
@Insilico Yes, you can. Since like, ever.
 
Services can be written in anything.
 
VS even ships with a project template for services.
 
@Insilico If I was to make a stab in complete darkness, I would say bullshit is involved. Why would there be a "hello world" string in a large C++ application?
 
user1804599
Awesome.
 
4:00 PM
@MartinJames Test data?
 
Wouldn't be the first time my memory fails spectacularly.
 
user1804599
Got 200 euros from the government for the last time.
 
@CatPlusPlus OK maybe..
 
@not-rightfold Spend it on booze to celebrate.
 
Nobody appreciated my joke, I'm removing my account.
 
4:01 PM
What?
 
The reason why I think multithreading is involved because threads can introduce weird-ass "impossible" behaviors that are hard as hell to debug
 
@Insilico In the presence of UB so can optimisations :S
 
@CatPlusPlus Appreciated my account of your joke? I'm deleting nobody.
 
user1804599
From now on I get only 86 euros each month.
 
> That ibdata1 isn't shrinking is a particularly annoying feature of MySQL. The ibdata1 file can´t actually be shrunk unless you delete all databases, remove the files and reload a dump.
 
user1804599
4:02 PM
5 euros too many. :P
 
But yeah, multiqueueing tends to make it worse.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think Cat is talking about stackoverflow.com/questions/18537019/…
 
user1804599
I should get a safe to store my money.
 
@CatPlusPlus Impressive.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes True. Another reason why I think multithreading is involved because the behavior the OP is seeing seems timing dependent.
 
4:03 PM
But MySQL is totally "good enough" and "works" and can be used, yeah sure why not we use it all the timeanditneverbreaksidontknowwhatyouaretalkingaboutTOOLSCANNOTBEBROKENTHEREARENO‌​INFERIORTOOLSLzncvmnx,mc vnz,nvakwsh fwe asdfsd
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Meh.. :)
 
> this is the worst new keyboard possible.
 
user1804599
> MySQL
 
user1804599
The NSA calls it OurSQL.
 
4:05 PM
Official documentation
To decrease the system tablespace size, use this procedure:
Use mysqldump to dump all your InnoDB tables.
Stop the server.
Remove all the existing tablespace files, including the ibdata and ib_log files.
Fuck you. Fuck all of you. Go die in fire.
 
@Insilico It's UB for sure, but not necessarily multithreaded. 'Aplication.DoEvents' is good for the symptoms, too.
 
Argh.
 
@CatPlusPlus NIPPLE SALADS
 
@CatPlusPlus Having to stop the server is the WTF. How the hell do people use MySQL in a production environment?
 
And I'm using the ~~wonderful improved fork~~, too.
 
user1804599
4:06 PM
@CatPlusPlus Dump your InnoDB tables in the sea and forget about them. Then upgrade to PostgreSQL and start over.
 
I like how that review basically points out what sucks about the keyboard and then simply lists better ones without those flaws.
@CatPlusPlus haha, Stop the server.
haha
 
To reclaim space, you have to basically reinstall MySQL data.
Have fun doing this with more than 100MB of data.
 
@Insilico They don't. The only people in the word that use it are the ones that are constantly despairing and complaining about it (or maybe just the Cat). All the others are part of an elaborate prank.
 
There's an idea at the company to create a reusable library of Django components.
I'm so pushing leaving MySQL behind forever.
 
user1804599
I just told my colleagues that MySQL sucks and now we use PostgreSQL for new projects.
 
4:11 PM
Just like that?
 
user1804599
Well, I gave some arguments but not many.
 
user1804599
(But they were already annoyed by some MySQL quirks.)
 
SAM
And they agreed?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They all already knew, but were too afraid to say it.
 
user1804599
Next step is getting rid of PHP. :P
 
4:13 PM
@not-rightfold You suspect that just telling everyone it sucks will not work again?
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
user1804599
They're quite specialised in PHP.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes You still here?
 
user1804599
Though one colleague is getting annoyed by weak typing and lack of exceptions, and he is interested in Python.
 
user1804599
Not sure about the other ones.
 
user1804599
4:15 PM
Oh well.
 
Heh. I'm getting annoyed by dynamic typing.
 
user1804599
I don't mind dynamic typing much.
 
user1804599
I like it in Python.
 
I'm bit tired of it.
 
If I said "that's a stupid idea" followed by what I find stupid about it, would you guys consider it impolite (native speakers preferred @Lightness @Dead @Jerry @Rapptz)?
 
user1804599
4:15 PM
It's getting annoying when stuff is utterly unclear and typing bugs are buried deep inside implementation details of functions.
 
@Xeo I'm not in the middle of nowhere outside of Berlin :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The question is whether you consider being blunt as impolite.
 
Xeo
Haha :/
 
Fuck euphemismism and dancing around issues.
 
Xeo
The thing is, I just remembered I don't have your phone number. :P
 
4:17 PM
@Xeo Got e-mail access? Imma send it.
 
See, this is why we need private messaging on chat.
 
Xeo
yeah
 
Should be on your inbox.
 
Also we should establish a PGP WoT and just post encrypted stuff publicly.
 
I remember how well the secret sex change worked.
 
user1804599
4:18 PM
Well, time to install FFmpeg on my VPS.
 
SIGN MY KEY IT IS LONELY
 
How do you back up your keys?
 
Put entire keychain into backup.
 
Hmm.
Sometimes, I hate WPF.
 
And put the backup where?
 
4:19 PM
You can export only yours, but :effort:
@R.MartinhoFernandes I keep them on Dropbox.
You should be encrypting your backups anyway.
 
I carry my private keys for SSH on my wallet. (as QR codes for easy input)
@CatPlusPlus With what key!
 
Xeo
Robot, got it
 
With a password kept in KeePass database. :v
 
user1804599
I encrypt only my porn collection and password database.
 
@CatPlusPlus Where is the last turtle?
 
Xeo
4:20 PM
btw, which route are you taking? I'll go by ring
 
In your memory.
 
@Xeo U8.
I'll probably leave now because I wanna buy some meat.
Later.
 
Xeo
alright, see you there
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Have fun, I hope you don't have to multiqueue for it.
 
Tin
Hello guys! Sorry to break the conversation. Does any of you has experience using std::move's in parameter constructors? I've been struggling for a while and can't find where the error is happening. Do you mind having an eye to the following short lines? => codepad.org/m4xiBl1D
 
user1804599
4:23 PM
@Tin Is that C++OBOL?
 
Also [ssccee]
There's too many letters in there.
 
[sscce] (one 'e' too many)
 
Tin
@not-rightfold, it's pure C++. i'm using msvc'10
 
user1804599
lol @ taking that seriously
 
user1804599
I was talking about the extraneous indentation.
 
4:25 PM
It's just OBOL.
 
user1804599
Is it possible to do P2P data transfer using HTML 5 without a sending all data through a server?
 
WebRTC
 
user1804599
:orgasm:
 
Tin
@R.MartinhoFernandes any ideas?
 
Why are you pinging robot, he ain't here.
 
user1804599
4:28 PM
Why do you ping random people?
 
user1804599
:frogout:
 
It's :frogout:
 
user1804599
I wondered why it didn't work. :)
 
@not-rightfold
 
user1804599
4:28 PM
@BoltClock
 
Thanks God I gave up at std::type_info pointers. Some really bad design was going on there.
Evening.
 
user1804599
From now on I'll say "pang" instead of "pinged".
 
Ohohoho H2CO3 mailed me to talk about why C is bad.
 
user1804599
LOL
 
user1804599
Time to get something to eat. :з
 
4:44 PM
Does anybody here know of my room manager idea?
 
@not-rightfold Done - chicken and ham salad.
 
@Pawnguy7 Managers again.
 
I know, I am trying to fix it.
Do you know what my concept of rooms is?
 
OMG this is so creepy, I am reading a popular chinese horror on a Friday night Saturday early morning. Even the slightest sound would make me jump up from the chair
I need to wake up early tomorrow morning
 
0
A: Is it safe to delete a NULL pointer?

pheestI have experienced that it is not safe (VS2010) to delete[] NULL (i.e. array syntax). I'm not sure whether this is according to the C++ standard. It is safe to delete NULL (scalar syntax).

^^ hmm... sounds like something unrelated?
 
4:56 PM
kimchi & wine ... I need sleep ... but the novel is too addictive and scary
 
@Mysticial Oh.. I read that as 'Is it sane to delete a NULL pointer?'.
 
Wasn’t there an online Visual C++ compiler somewhere?
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 What's this horror story you speak of?
 
@Telkitty猫咪咪 Have you forgotten what day it is, or where you are ATM? :)
 
I think it should be legal to delete any NULL. So if he's crashing, then it's probably UB in some other code.
 
4:59 PM
Yes, delete nullptr is no-op.
 
@Insilico If you can read Chinese: this
 
@Mysticial I don't know of any language that doesn't do a null-check.
 

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