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8:00 PM
@ThePhD "I will not, in this post, be talking about many of the new VS 2013 features that are unrelated to the Application Lifecycle workflows."
 
@MooingDuck But why is everyone else quuieeet?! D:
 
@ThePhD "Today at TechEd, I announced Visual Studio 2013..."
 
:c
Well. I'll give them another 2 weeks.
If I get on the plane to go to Microsoft and I haven't heard anything about Visual C++ I'm charging Stephen Lavejev's door down. D:
 
don't do that
he's a nice guy
 
I know he's a nice guy. I'm going to plot with him how we can get him to take over whoever's leading Visual C++'s department at the moment.
WE'LL STAGE A COUP.
> Hi, my name is Jim Hogg and I am a Program Manager, working in the Visual C++ compiler team in Microsoft, based on the main campus here in Redmond
^ Target acquired.
 
8:05 PM
Haha
Maybe Stephan has a laser under that black lens. You could use that.
3
 
That would be really badass if he had a laser eye.
 
Ikr
"Where dafuq are mah variadic templates?" -"But sir we were just about to..." "NO takes of glasses FUCK YOU BZBZBZBZBRZBRZBZBRZBRZB"
 
How do you strike words in chat? I keep forgetting :(
 
And that's how he'll make them implement variadic templates.
@Jeffrey ---
 
like this?
 
8:08 PM
@Jeffrey You suck rock.
 
@ThePhD LOL. I read it as "you suck cock".
@Jeffrey one three dashes
 
Hmm, is there any way to write a variadic function that takes a variable number of arguments *of a specific type*?

If I have a normal function that takes a `foo_t` and call it with something that's convertible to `foo_t`, I'm guaranteed a `foo_t` that lasts the lifetime of the function invocation and that I can pass around by reference, but a variadic templated function might get other types that aren't equivalent to `*foo_t`.
 
@Tuntuni wtf good!
 
@Sidnicious Just static_assert or SFINAE that each T is foo_t.
 
@Sidnicious Don't think you can, but you can convert them, which is more or less the same.
@DeadMG I think conversions are better, so you can pass "HI" instead of std::string("HI")
 
8:10 PM
@DeadMG Can you do bool... bools (I tried it with MSVC so .. yeah lel)?
 
@Tuntuni don't think so
 
@Tuntuni Only in classes
Not in functions.
 
Aww.
 
@Rapptz wait really?
 
That'd be a nice feature.
 
8:11 PM
@MooingDuck Yes
 
@Rapptz How?
 
@Rapptz awesome, but odd
 
template<size_t... I> struct seq {};
 
oh, lel
well that's cool
 
@Sidnicious can't have "convertable to" and "reference" in the same sentence unless it's "const reference"
 
8:12 PM
I have to go now. Sorry guys. I love you all
 
@Jeffrey fuck you goodbye. :3333
 
@Sidnicious wait, then you threw in *foo_t. Not sure what you're wanting there.
 
@DeadMG getting foo_ts that last the lifetime of the call is important
 
@Sidnicious can they be const or foo_t&&?
 
user142019
The C++ standard library doesn't have a bidirectional unordered map type, does it?
 
8:14 PM
@rightfold nope. boost.
 
@Sidnicious Er, what does that have to do with anything?
 
user142019
Boost.Bimap?
 
my previous advice is perfectly valid
 
@MooingDuck I want to take plain foo_ts, but be able to pass them by address to a function that expects a foo_t*
 
@Sidnicious so foo_t&& is fine?
 
8:16 PM
Sure
 
@rightfold I think those are only bidirectional ordered, but I'm not sure
 
user142019
A bidirectional hash table would be ideal in my situation.
 
@DeadMG I don't grok how I could use static_assert or SFINAE to make that work
 
@rightfold I believe that that has absolutely fuck all to do with anything w.r.t what I just said.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel std::auto_ptr
 
user142019
8:17 PM
Huh?
 
@Sidnicious Well, if you know what variadic templates are, and you know what SFINAE and static_assert are, then simply combining them will produce the result you want. If you don't know what those features are, consider learning them first.
 
lol
 
why the fuck would you call it ten trillion times
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel: Or rather, make your own handle_ptr or win_handle or whatever
 
That's a weird way of doing it too
 
Xeo
8:20 PM
Don't do that shitty if-chaining by hand
 
@DeadMG No idea. Just came to me.
Copy pasted the shit out of it
 
@DeadMG How would I use them to templatize something like this to take an arbitrary number of arguments?
void (foo_t foo) { foo_t *arr[] { &foo }; /* … */ }
 
Copy paste in the bin buddy
 
You cruel person :(
 
user142019
How about no shared state and per-thread garbage collectors.
 
8:20 PM
What was the point of binning that..?
 
Yeah ..
 
Xeo
How about no garbage collectors
 
No point at all. wasn't spamming the chat.
 
user142019
Garbage collection ftw.
 
@Sidnicious What do I look like, your butler? 1. Make variadic template. 2. Check that each parameter has the type foo_t. 3. Voila, foo_t...
 
Xeo
8:21 PM
s/w/l/
 
user142019
for the lulz?
 
@rightfold s/the/teh FTFY
 
Xeo
Gawd I'm in a foul mood. I shouldn't be chatting like this. I feel like the Cat...
Maybe beating the shit out of some Terraria bosses will help me calm down. Later.
 
@DeadMG Nope, maybe it means that I don't grok variadic templates or SFINAE though. If I templatize that right now and pass something that's convertible to foo_t, I get a compile error that I can't initialize a foo_t * with a whatever_t *, and I'm not sure how to work around that.
 
there's a std::is_convertible
moron
 
8:28 PM
Dude, the whatever_t can be converted to a foo_t, but whatever_t * can't be converted to foo_t *
 
really? I'd never have guessed.
 
Xeo
What does he actually want?
What's the behaviour you want?
 
it would appear to be something like this
 
@DeadMG I feel like I'm missing a big part of what you're trying to get me to do/understand.
 
8:32 PM
I agree
 
@Xeo I want that example above to be able to take an arbitrary number of foo_ts that may have been constructed from other types and which last the lifetime of the call, so that I can take references to them.
 
did you even look at the link that I posted?
 
@Sidnicious or mine?
 
@MooingDuck Actually, that looks like an awesome workaround! I was hoping that I missed a simpler way but that would do it.
@DeadMG I'm looking at it now
 
what was the trick to get an unnamed temporary array for which to expand variadic templates?
@Sidnicious Because I got it to run and compile: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/…
 
Xeo
8:40 PM
using swallow = int[];
swallow{ ... };
Or Alias<int[]>{ ... }; if you have that lying around
 
@Xeo thanks, I didn't think it was that easy
 
@Xeo Can't specify a deleter with that.
 
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, reason I mentioned writing your own
I remembered that too late to edit, though
 
@EtiennedeMartel Really, the smart move for a C++03 lib is to focus on swapping rather than copying
 
@thecoshman I axed it (partly in favor of a semi-successful coliru-setup) :)
 
Xeo
8:46 PM
Hi.
How's your month off so far?
 
@Sidnicious Fixed it, it's optimal now: coliru.stacked-crooked.com/…
 
Not much change. So, I'm making tea and having to bed. ?..
I do have new toy, though, so I'm addressing you from my gallery, in the kitchen right now. Woot
 
Xeo
nice
 
@DeadMG Yeah, that'll do the trick. I was just hoping I could end up with a parameter pack of foo_ts, which'd be more useful, but it sounds like that's probably not possible.
 
@Sidnicious you mean like I just did?
 
8:49 PM
@MooingDuck Yes :)
 
@not-sehe was it more or less not used any more, or did you just want shot of it?
@not-sehe 'gallery'?
 
Xeo
Yay, new Smooth McGroove. /cc @EtiennedeMartel
 
I'm positively amazed at how much more useful this device can be, compared to my Android phone. Oh and Samsung's swype is a superb feature
 
and what a random post to join with a response to :S
 
@MooingDuck That totally does the trick. I wish C++11 made it more elegant, but that's a pretty great solution.
 
8:50 PM
@Sidnicious I really wish C++ had that feature too :(
 
@not-sehe oooh, did you mean 'Galaxy'?
 
Cool, I'm glad I'm not alone
 
Gallery. Hilarious. That was supposed to read tablet
And the minecraft server was just not used anymore
 
@not-sehe o_0 you may have just stolen the record for worst typo :P
 
Xeo
Auto-correction at its best again
 
8:53 PM
@thecoshman that would have been subconscious, but yeah it's a Galaxy note
 
@not-sehe very shiny
I brought myself a gift this weekend, a new computer :D
 
@Xeo LINKS, NAO.
 
Very shiny indeed. I'm very happy with it, especially considering how long I resisted buying a tablet, thinking it would be a waste of money.
However what made me reconsider was the prospect of being able to actually separate work at the pic from reading (blogs, articles, books too now)
 
@Xeo nevermind I found it
 
@not-sehe that's it, convince your self it was money well spent :P
 
8:58 PM
Anyways, tea is done, so I'm gonna leave you guys in peace, heading upstairs
@thecoshman wel, at least it's not an evident waste yet:)
 
@not-sehe enjoy, see you later
 
Cheers
 
@not-sehe that's the spirit old chap :D
 
Hi.
 
dark theme for text editor and console does not play nicely with bright theme for SO chat
 
9:03 PM
Is there a way to tell Windows to dump a file from RAM so I can do cold tests? :/
or do I just have to fill up all the memory and hope it dumps the file?
 
@thecoshman Yup. :(
 
@MooingDuck malloc(2147483647)
 
@not-sehe G'night.
 
or while (true) { malloc(32); }...
 
user142019
Skype does that in a background thread.
 
9:07 PM
sneak it in slowly'
@rightfold Wouldn't doubt it.
 
@ShotgunNinja bah. I don't know if windows will commit memory right away for that. Does it?
 
@MooingDuck Not a clue. It may be optimized out by a smart compiler, for all I know.
 
oh hey: "This is done at the time the file is opened by passing FILE_FLAG_NO_BUFFERING as a value for the dwFlagsAndAttributes parameter of CreateFile. When caching is disabled, all read and write operations directly access the physical disk. " It affects reads too? Strange.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck I think it does
 
I was trying to submit a patch to the libstdc++. More than 15 lines, so I need a copyright assignment. I don't understand at all how to work this out with legal papers and stuff...
 
9:10 PM
@ShotgunNinja has side effects, so cant be optimized out
 
lol, the old dating advice lounge is now active again
 
"fsutil file setvaliddata fileA 100" where 100 is the size of fileA. Well that's simple
 
does gcc version 4.6.3 not support type alias?
 
No.
Type alias appears in GCC 4.7.0.
 
I assume unique_ptr and auto_ptr are in the same boat?
 
9:15 PM
@Rapptz Lol where is this one from??
 
@Aboutblank What do you mean?
 
All images I posted were from Vividred Operation
 
@Rapptz Aha. was just about to google. danke
added to mah to watch list
getting bigger and bigger
 
@Morwenn uhh basically I'm asking if I can use std::unique_ptr in gcc 4.6
 
@Aboutblank yes
 
9:19 PM
@Aboutblank I don't know. But even if you can't, you will still be able to access std::tr1::unique_ptr. And std::auto_ptr is deprecated.
 
@Aboutblank auto_ptr is really old.
 
@MooingDuck I was under the impression that auto_ptr and unique_ptr are different things
 
@Aboutblank they are. auto_ptr is from 2003 and is stupid. It was replaced with unique_ptr in 2011, which fixed all the stupid, and is awesome.
never use auto_ptr. Always use unique_ptr.
4
 
If you don't want deprecated features, compile with -D_GLIBCXX_USE_DEPRECATED=0.
But if you use GCC < 4.8.0, you may have a problem because <algorithm> includes <random> which itself includes <functional> and tries to use std::bind2nd which is deprecated.
 
cool. thanks for the help.
 
9:26 PM
Why does algorithm include random
 
Good question.
 
@Rapptz random_shuffle
 
Good answer.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The entire header for that?
 
Just checked, yes, there is a #include <random> in <bits/stl_algo.h>.
 
9:30 PM
@Rapptz it needs to include a proper RNG, makes sense to just do the whole header
 
std::shuffle uses std::uniform_int_distribution, otherwise, the <random> inclusion is useless.
 
@Morwenn it can't just predeclare it, it's a template
 
@MooingDuck No. It makes sense to include an appropriate <bits/rng_im_using>
 
@Rapptz ah
 
Like you'd micromanage includes like that
 
9:34 PM
Boost does many micro-includes.
 
@CatPlusPlus GCC does have multiple <bits/stuff>.
So it isn't exactly far fetched.
 
So?
It's there to keep file sizes low, not to micromanage shit
Why would the maintainer keep current bits dependencies in mind if they can just include <random> which does RightThing(TM)
 
They are not really keeping files size low in gcc core though...
 
Writing C++ is painful as it is
Esp for stdlib
 
@CatPlusPlus To avoid namespace pollution.
 
9:36 PM
Ehehe right
Important
 
I had code that failed to build on libc++ because I forgot includes that libstdc++ happened to include accidentally.
 
Well, I also had this problem a few times.
 
I didn't :v:
 
Sure. You generally don't care that much about libstdc++/libc++ when using Haskell.
 
@Morwenn 1st-degree burns, ouch.
 
9:49 PM
@ShotgunNinja Er, what are you talking about?
 
@Morwenn I thought you were calling him out for talking about C++ issues when supposedly he only uses Haskell.
as in, a burn
 
Oh no, I wasn't calling him out for anything. He already knows that much about c++ but only happens to prefere Haskell.
 
is 0xCD the magic number that the Windows debugger fills memory with?
 
@Kivin 0xDE 0xAD 0xBE 0xEF
 
@ShotgunNinja Are you certain? I was pretty sure it repeated the same sequence byte by byte
 
9:58 PM
That was punny.
 
@Kivin malloc on MSVC marks stuff with 0xCDCDCDCD
 
@Kivin i've seen 0xcd and 0xef i think
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's what I thought :)
 
i was using visual studio 2010
 
9:59 PM
I fucked up a memcpy someplace
 
lel
 
Hexspeak, like leetspeak, is a novelty form of variant English spelling using the hexadecimal numbers. Created by programmers who wanted a magic number, hexspeak words can serve as a clear and unique identifier with which to mark memory or data. Using hexadecimal notation, which includes the digits 0123456789ABCDEF, it is possible to spell several words. Further words can be made by treating some of the decimal numbers as letters - the digit "0" can represent the letter "O", and "1" can represent the letters "I" or "L". Less commonly, "5" can represent "S", "7" represent "T", "12" represen...
 
In computer programming, the term magic number has multiple meanings. It could refer to one or more of the following: * A constant numerical or text value used to identify a file format or protocol; for files, see List of file signatures * Distinctive unique values that are unlikely to be mistaken for other meanings (e.g., Globally Unique Identifiers) * Unique values with unexplained meaning or multiple occurrences which could (preferably) be replaced with named constants Format indicator Magic number origin The format indicator type of magic number was initially found in early Se...
 
Don't know how I got on without pedantic use of unit testing for so long. Its saved my bacon a few times today.
 
There's a nice list there.
 
10:01 PM
> "Disease", Used as a flag to indicate regular boot on the Nintendo GameCube and Wii consoles
3
Surprised 0xC1CADA isn't there
ThePhD seems to use it a lot.
 
Note to room: memcpy and its family of functions usually work better when they aren't preceeded by //
8
 
I think I'll soon give up on controbuting to libstdc++. I don't understand anything with those legal papers for copyright assignment...
 
@Rapptz It's a three-byte number :S
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see your point but still. :P
 
@Morwenn Wait, people are supposed to understand legal papers?
:P
 
10:05 PM
@Kivin Finding the forms and how to fill them would be a beginning.
 
@Morwenn You'd think they'd be interested in making that much easy, at least.
 
@Kivin There are lots of pages on how to do it, but I don't quite understand how it works.
 
If only the whole world operated on the WTFPL
2
 
My vocabulary is limited when it comes to legal matters...
 
I feel ya. I'm a "do what the fuck you want to do" kinda guy.
 
10:11 PM
> The first part of the marshal data packet is a 4-byte signature which is hardcoded to the characters "MEOW" which is an acronym for Microsoft Extended Object Wire.
So, I was debugging some COM object deserialization, and it really starts with MEOW.
 
Ell
xD
 
@EtiennedeMartel Sounds like STL worked on it.
 
That's special
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes That lazy bastard needs to make another video :(
 
Ell
Is there a location where all of c++'s flaws are collectively listed?
 
10:17 PM
Yes.
This chat's history.
 
Internet servers are not sufficient to list them.
 
@Ell ISO publishes a standard. You could use that.
4
 
@Ell You can also wander through the defect reports.
 
@Ell Depends on what you mean by "flaws".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He's certainly developed a habit for leaving his fingerprints all over poorly-named things.
 
Ell
10:19 PM
Well I would say a flaw is something which is objectively bad
 
There have been something like 1600 defect reports for the core alone.
 
Ell
Like compilation model
I didn't know there were defect reports. I'll look
 
That's pretty hard to objectively measure IMO.
Because it ultimately ends up looking like Language Y does this better than Language X
At best we can all collectively agree we dislike the compilation model.
 
Ell
Well, if almost all languages do it better than language X, its likely that language X is using an inferior way
 
Unless you include compilation times as a metric for why the compilation model blows.
 
Ell
10:22 PM
I do :P
Do you not include that?
 
It's a fair one.
 
@Ell It's nearly always subjective.
 
But not every flaw has an objective metric to use.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, that happens. Anywhere in particular?
 
Ell
I guess even the objectiveness of something is subjective :L
 
10:25 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well I was a bit surprised by the 80-bytes iterator for just a pipeline of three operations, but in retrospect that was in debug mode so there are likely redundancies (i.e. debug iterator likely retain a pointer t their parent ranges... just like I do for some composite ranges already!).
On a more serious note I am annoyed by some code duplication when I need to handle single pass ranges separate from the rest. (Where single_pass_foo is the same as forward_foo, but with an ephemeral<some_computation> for the iterators it produces to dereference from.)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh I get it. It's some of the template<Dummy> struct whatever<0, Dummy> { on one line right? Fine, I'll change that :p
 
@LucDanton No, it's actual part of the range stuff. range_iterator_data and some more.
 
Also I wouldn't mind a better implementation for the random-access of append.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Noted.
 
0
Q: how to declare a global friend function that takes an nested class of a template class?

petrici have been trying all sorts of declarations but haven't got it right,getting all sortes of errors like, syntex errors and linkig errors. this is the last attempt that made any reason to me. what am i doing wrong? template<class T> class Array { public: Array(){}; ~Array(){}; class Iter...

 
syntex sounds like an explosive.
 
another day without new() is done
 
Ell
10:42 PM
Semtex
 
@Xeo Yeah. I had a strong feeling that it was gonna turn into Shinsekai Yori when I saw the human-like babies.
 
Xeo
Can't wait for the next episode
 
Hello, World!
Anyone know a good/reliable site to dl Linux drivers for old graphics cards?
 
Ell
I don't
 
What is operator+<>? Does it even exists?
 
10:54 PM
Of course, operator+<> adds two arrays then returns a new arrays where elements are filtered according to their truth values.
That's pretty handful.
 
How would you use it?
 
Or it's just a shortcut when you write template friends, your pick.
 
@Morwenn A shortcut for what?
 
@Jeffrey For not having to repeat the template parameters.
 
Right, it makes sense.
This is a total guess. Can any one confirm or disconfirm?
 

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