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2:00 AM
I guess. I think I am in the middle of learning an important lesson. Or lessons. Related to priorities, giving up, saying no, expectations, and what I just stated.
 
lol
 
Stick it out. At worst, it makes you miserable a while longer. And pain is easy to forget.
 
there's no way to make a .hgignore file with Windows Explorer
I have to use touch .hgignore :S
 
copy nul .hgignore
 
Is that related to web design and crawlers?
 
2:01 AM
Mercurial ignore list
 
> 1,669,320 nodes searched in 10,890.099 ms. 153,287.863 nodes/s
> tree has maximum depth of 29,809
^that sounds more realistic...
 
Okay, now you're in business.
Bad news is, 29k deep recursion isn't going to end well on most systems.
 
how large a stack would I need? :p
 
@Kivin I have touch already :>
 
Depends on how much of the stack is getting used per frame. I imagine you could look at the disassembly and see how far the esp is getting nudged
 
2:03 AM
29K deep is also madness. the game this search tree is for has an average of ~38 moves per game. we shouldn't even be looking that deep...
 
@Rapptz I was just taking a jab at you :p But you're right, Windows explorer wont let you.
 
well I guess that's what I get for trusting other people to write code that works ._.
 
@Pawnguy7 BTW what was the error you got with SFML?
I might know what it is since I received an odd one a while back.
 
Works in a perfect world where the stack is bottomless, I guess.
Can you recompile with a bigger stack?
 
@Kivin You can probably manage 29K on most systems. Let's assume you're using, say, 64 bytes per stack frame. In that case, you'd have a total of 29K x 64 a bit less than 2 Megabytes of stack space. On Windows (default of 4M for the stack) it should be fine. IIRC, Linux uses 1 Meg by default; if so, you'd need to tell the linker to increase that.
 
2:05 AM
Anyone by any chance at all know jquery/php here. The people over there are inactive.
 
@Rapptz I still don't really know. On the forums, the response I got was that the window isn't meant to be used as a static or global variable.
 
@DemCodeLines what do those things have to do with each other? "C/C++" is bad terminology enough…
 
Was it this?
 
@DemCodeLines I don't, and even if I did I wouldn't admit it.
 
2:07 AM
I got that before. I still don't know what it was. I think in my case it was a linking error (DLLs or something).
 
@Potatoswatter Well I meant either one of those
 
@JerryCoffin Maybe so, but a stack overflow is pretty compelling evidence :O
 
@DemCodeLines I know. But I wouldn't want to spread the infection.
 
@DemCodeLines Ask me about jQ…
 
2:08 AM
@Pawnguy7 Well did that fix it?
 
@Potatoswatter Could you please come into the Javascript room?

JavaScript

Topic: Anything JavaScript, ECMAScript including Node, React, ...
 
I'll come over but it's been a long while since I did anything non-trivial in jQuery
 
They told me to redesign. While that is probably wise advice, now that I think of it, it told me little to nothing about why it occurs or how to fix it. They basically said, work around it, which I plan to do... eventually.
 
Their FAQ site is so much different than ours.
 
@Kivin You're close enough to the limit that it's not really surprising if you need more stack space (especially if you might be using more than 64 bytes of stack space -- I'm obviously only taking a wild guess there). At least with VC++, increasing the stack space is pretty trivial (-link -stack:<size>).
 
2:11 AM
Well that's easy enough. Does Windows get belligerent at you if you increase it too much?
Is anything to stop you from giving yourself some dumb 100 meg stack?
 
@Kivin Seems like there is a limit, but I don't remember what it is (might be something like 32 or 64 meg, but I'm not at all sure). Even when you don't actually use the fully depth of stack you reserve, it takes a little memory for the page tables to reserve the space, but I doubt I'd worry a lot about it. It was probably a big deal when you wanted Windows to run in, say, 8 or 16 megs of RAM, but with gigabytes, not so much.
 
Cool beans. That might be the quickest fix for @melak47
 
first thing I tried was increasing the stack size :p
I'll have to tell the guy to fix his heuristic. and also install a depth limit into the search regardless
 
Gotcha
 
@Rapptz you use SFML?
 
2:17 AM
Yes
I decided to remake my game engine.
Have a better design approach or something
So I'm dabbling in it again.
 
Ah. What kind of reasons do you think there are that a static window wouldn't work?
 
Any reason to use it over, say, Unity or UDK?
Sorry, I don't mean to distract you from your work.
 
I don't understand why people enjoy making game engines. Then again, learning how to make good APIs is a useful ability, I would say. One that I lack :D
 
@Rapptz You too? Damnit... Puppy was thinking of making one as wll the other day iirc. I'm gonna feel bad when you get something awesome before i do.
 
Mine will suck. :P
You're touching upon all the multithreaded stuff.
 
2:20 AM
If by that you mean banging my head against a wall, then yes :P
 
Multi-threaded game engine... joy.
 
Yeah I wouldn't want the headache of multi-threading.
 
Joy as in root canal, joy.
 
I'm almost done reading "Game Engine Architecture"
 
@Pawnguy7 Something I can reuse really.
 
2:21 AM
@Rapptz I hope you won't be stuck again in making a UI system. :P
 
My wife and I recently started toying around with Unity3D
 
I thought it would guide me, it just gave me more ideas. The task that seemed really big now looks herculean big.
 
@MarkGarcia I branched out my UI toolkit into a different library that is already ~75% complete or so.
 
@Kivin Nightmare.
 
@Rapptz Makes sense. The only thing that my barely worked on projects I have reused is my simple random range function :D
 
2:21 AM
@MarkGarcia Indeed.
 
I'm not sure if I should merge it though.
Seems like overkill.
 
@Rapptz Cool. I've somehow decided to create a game engine once but felt that creating a UI system is better. Now I'm more of a UI person.
 
I had videos of my progress that I posted here.
It was fun :D
 
@Rapptz UI is an integral part of a game engine.
 
@Rapptz Link
 
2:24 AM
Looking back I shouldn't have linked them :C
Bunch of stuff on my youtube channel.
But if you dwell back enough you'll find them.
@MarkGarcia Which? :(
I can't think of one that has a full blown UI toolkit.
Does Unity have one?
 
Seems like a lot of people just use Scaleform or something.
I don't think so. Not a formal one.
 
Yeah.
 
@Rapptz Unreal and CryEngine, I think.
 
UDK has Scaleform built in, IIRC.
I don't know if you're required to buy a license or not.
 
I thought most big engines used Scaleform
 
2:29 AM
CryTek uses Scaleform in their games, so that's evidence that CryEngine probably comes with it too.
 
Yeah most engines use Scaleform
 
I don't like game engines...
 
lol
They're not that fun either :C
Maybe it's just me being a perfectionist.
 
Game programming is atrocious. I wouldn't want to be involved in it professionally.
 
I like designing libraries. But I don't like doing something that large as a game engine.
 
2:32 AM
@Kivin Yeah same here.
 
Your design becomes incoherent and bloated and stuff.
sigh
 
Just make a design and stick with it
 
People always getting laid off in the industry as soon as their game is nearing completion, and the industry has gotten so corporate owned that there's no actual spirit gone in to making games any more.
 
Not all of them.
 
Not that I'm a perfectionist. But... well. If you can't have a coherent design then your library is shitty.
 
2:33 AM
I was thinking of maybe integrating something like this in mine (Example of what it does). But either an opensource alternative or spin my own T_T
 
@MarkGarcia Here's the thing: never make an engine.
Make a game, then refactor it to get an engine out of it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yes. Lesson learned long ago.
@EtiennedeMartel I'm not making a game either. :(
 
That's good advice.
 
@Kivin That's a property of AAA projects.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, definitely not fun.
 
2:34 AM
Right now. Because AAAs are dying, so studios realize that they can't make a profit anymore.
Yet, in Montreal, despite so many major studios closing, the sector is still growing.
 
Maybe they wouldn't be dying if they actually made games that people want to play.
 
@Kivin It has nothing to do with this.
 
The issue is not the games.
 
Tomb Raider sold 3 million copies. That's not enough anymore.
 
Oh, that's a fair point. These corporations have grown so large that they can't sustain themselves.
 
2:35 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Which is insane when you think about it
 
It's the practices of the company that undermines the game too.
 
@Kivin It has nothing to do with size either.
It's about scope.
 
The games themselves cost too much to make
The art assets alone cost a fortune
 
@Rapptz The western practices, specifically. I think the Japanese workflow is better.
 
The "throw more money at it" approach is no longer profitable.
 
2:36 AM
Well, something's got to change. I look at the MMO "industry" in particular. It's been a real long time since anyone made one that the consumers actually wanted. They aren't making games to player demand, and people aren't buying them.
 
@MarkGarcia It's worse.
 
@MarkGarcia Really? Tell that to the guys making Final Fantasy
 
Japanese game development is "hammer at it until it works". With even poorer work conditions.
 
Oh. OK.
 
@MarkGarcia Hmmm.. Depends.
 
2:37 AM
BUt that's mostly an issue with Japanese society as a whole and how they approach work.
 
We can't compare due to culture differences
 
Square Enix has been working for years on Final Fantasy 14 because their Japanese pride says they have to. Nobody is going to buy it.
 
So it's a moot point.
 
I wonder why the Japanese game devs dislike Western workflows so much.
 
@Kivin All those MMO failed because they tried to steal from WoW.
 
2:38 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Correct, and in doing so they made a product that consumers didn't want to pay for.
 
@MarkGarcia At work, we have a guy who once worked for Eidos Montreal.
He told us about how, when Square Enix came to visit the studio after their acquisition, they asked how source control worked.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Youre kidding right?
=/
 
I believe it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel They have no source control?!! Shit.
 
2:39 AM
@Borgleader Merging was done by hand by the project lead.
 
WHAT!?
 
WTF
 
Seeing the way Squenix has handled FF14, they're still years behind the western world.
 
Normally I'd say I'm being trolled but in this instance something tells me you're serious
 
We're finally starting to see a decline in WoW clones, and they're working hard to make their own, completely oblivious to what's going on in the west.
 
2:40 AM
They don't care.
The West is just a bonus.
If it sells well in Japan, it's a success.
 
We'll see when 14 crashes. For a second time.
It wont sell well, I stake my life on that.
 
Final Fantasy games always sell well.
Also I'm not commenting on the Japanese aspects because of the culture clashes.
 
14 didn't. It was a complete commercial disaster in both regions.
 
So it isn't worth arguing/discussing IMO.
 
@Kivin Because it was unfinished.
 
2:41 AM
(Not to mention I don't buy the merging by hand and what have you)
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's no more finished now, but c'est la vie.
 
So, nobody bought it because they shipped it too quickly.
@Rapptz Sure. Although I don't see why it's so hard to believe.
 
Same thing happened with SWToR imo, and Age of Conan for that matter, both games shipped without being finished (AoC primarily to be able to ship before Warhammer lacked content and was/still is buggy as hell, SWToR lacked end game content)
 
There's a pride problem for sure in the industry.
 
Regardless of endgame content, they were terrible games. The animations, storyline, and more. If they weren't MMOs and were held to the standards every other game gets, they'd be ridiculed.
 
2:44 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Subversion and source control has been around for a very long time. The fact that an Eastern nation that takes pride in its work would not use it sounds strange to me. And even if it was true -- I would probably believe that it is a Square Enix only deal.
 
@Rapptz I was only talking about Square Enix, not Japan as a whole.
I don't see why you assumed so.
 
Because the first few sentences that brought up the discussion were generalised and then Square Enix felt like an example.
 
@Kivin Age of Conan one of the most fun combat system I've seen in years (in mmos at least) and the night system (where it essentially became an rpg) was refresshing as well, too bad it was only for the first 20 levels. As for SWToR the storylines were awesome, the combat was quite enjoyable. They werent terrible games, just unfinished.
 
@Rapptz Well, it was not my intention to use them as an example.
I saw it more as an interesting anecdote.
 
@Borgleader My wife likes to say that if the whole game was as good as Torgage, they'd've had a winner.
 
2:46 AM
Anyway. I remember reading a year ago an interview with a Maxis dev about how they wouldn't repeat the mistakes Blizzard did with D3. Fast forward several months, SimCity launch is a disaster. They repeated the exact same mistakes.
 
But the sum of the parts was a generally low quality game, MMO or not. Many of the dungeons were some of the lowest quality we (wife + I) have ever seen. We've scrutinized them.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah like I said -- the practices of the company also has its fair share of blame.
 
@Kivin Oh sure, if the whole game was at the level of the first area (1-20) it would have been best mmo of the decade. In fact, its because the rest of the game isnt like that that the whole felt so unfinished. The drop in polish level was extremely noticeable
 
I remember messaging my wife on IM, she was still living out of country at that time, and saying "I think my game is broken. I just got to imperial city (or w/e its called) and the voice overs are broken."
 
Sadly, I went back to AoC after it went F2P and I was surprised that some of the bugs from launch had endured over the years.
 
2:49 AM
On another somewhat related node, Elder Scrolls Online is going to be a disaster.
My popcorn is a-waiting.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Overall I think the Sim City launch was a worst disaster than D3. By miles, or maybe they mishandled it to the point where it looked worse. I'm not quite sure.
 
@Borgleader I'm not so sure, @Borgleader. Diablo 3 was a special kind of hell, no pun intended.
 
@Borgleader The difference is that EA has the worst PR in the entire industry.
2
 
Blame it all to the always online "features".
 
So they couldn't do effective damage control.
While we're on the subject.
This is relevant.
 
2:51 AM
@EtiennedeMartel Poor Release.
 
@EtiennedeMartel EA does have a knack for saying exactly the wrong thing, at the wrong time.
Remember late last year when they criticized Steam for offering too good of sales?
 
yiz
I am getting ready for my extreme hiking/camping trip
 
@EtiennedeMartel My favourite EA sucks video. Even if not intended.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I could care less about EA's PR
 
@Kivin Theres having technical issues, and trying to cover your ass by blatently lying to your customers.
"Our servers are needed to offload parts of the calculation" - EA PR
"Oh really then why was I able to patch it in a week to enable playing offline?" - Hackers
"Fuck..."
 
2:58 AM
@Borgleader No argument there, EA represents to me everything that's wrong with business, and everything that is wrong with the game industry.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That old EA memo thing always makes me feel bad for EA though.
 
EA memo?
 
Watch the video.
 
Oh, will do in a lil bit
 
It's a good one (and a good series to boot)
 
3:04 AM
I should watch that series more often
 
@ThePhD should too.
 
Favorite comment so far: "EA is like Anakin."
 
lol those Tropes videos bring out drama everywhere
Even in the EC forum.
 
3:21 AM
Trope videos?
 
I think it's better if they go without discussion -- they're drama bound.
Plus I think this video does it better.
 
"A character that says mother all the time." LOL
 
In related news, fuck Other M.
 
I've never played it.
I always thought Samus was a cool female character though :(
 
Oh, she is. But not in Other M.
There, she's just a fragile flower who has to follow men around and do what they say.
 
3:32 AM
Oh that's lame.
 
Typical Japanese setup, actually.
(oh oh oh oh)
 
I know.
 
@Rapptz Your link is https while the other is http.
 
No.. look.
One is Iwata Satoru the other is Satoru Iwata
 
unit test ballooned to 30s compilation time :s
 
Oh. Ahaha! Silly me.
 
3:47 AM
They're equivalent under Japanese naming vs Western
 
@Rapptz Might be good to report it?
 
@LucDanton At least it isn't 30 minutes. :>
 
dunno what kind of unit that would be.
 
A very big unit.
@MarkGarcia You could edit it pretty easily.
 
Well fuck, if I comment everything else I'm still at 16s.
 
3:49 AM
Long compilation times are actually good. It gives you more time to rest.
@Rapptz Yeah. I'm not just used to wikiing.
 
Nice. :)
 
Ah it was a bot.
 
@Rapptz Yo I've backtraced you!
 
3:52 AM
@LucDanton lol
I didn't log in on purpose.
 
yiz
(Lovely) First throw call stack
 
4:10 AM
 
4:27 AM
Forgot to remove constexpr from an operator() overload and the extra implicit const qualification broke the program :(
return tuples::fold(operators::plus {}, static_cast<difference_type>(0)
        , tuples::transform(range_operators::distance {}, tuples::slice<FromTo<N, M>>(self.ranges)) );
Having so much fun!
Haha, wrong order of arguments to transform. I treated as if it were a map.
But other than that, hey, it's correct.
And now it's back to 30s of compilation.
otoh a sample program is 2s to compile distance(append(a, b)). So it's not a fixed overhead, the 30s should come from the fact that the unit test tries to be exhaustive and instantiates lots of codepaths.
 
5:27 AM
@LucDanton the implicit const is being removed for C++14
 
I know. I was removing constexpr because those were void overloads, so the remaining one was a bug regardless.
 
Have you guys ever used Windows TimerQueues?
 
Can't even remember the last time I touched a Windows machine. (Besides booting my XP VM just to see how it worked under Mountain Lion, and update the antivirus.)
 
yiz
My PC is on windows, I am currently using mac and I also have 3 linux servers
 
posted on June 03, 2013 by Scott Meyers

I'm pleased to report that a new member of my Effective Software Development Series, Matt Galloway's Effective Objective-C 2.0, has just been published. The first thing I noticed when I opened my copy was that the code is beautiful. In the pre-publication manuscripts I read, everything was black and white and plain, but in the published version (both print and electronic), code examples are s

 
5:39 AM
Final unit test takes 50s to compile ;_;
 
yiz
?
 
...
 
~
hi
Sleeping early is for noobs.
 
6:27 AM
I've opened an existing CMake project in Qt Creator. However, the project view doesn't show the include files. Add existing files also doesn't work (disabled). @Rapptz You know Qt Creator right?
Please. I just need a little help.
:)
 
Yeah but I use qmake
I like it a lot
You should try it.
 
@Rapptz Oh. So I'm on my own in tinkering with Qt Creator.
 
At least with CMake.
 
@Rapptz Already have. I've already built my library and some tests.
My problem is just with navigation.
 
yiz
farm animals: unite!
 
6:29 AM
The file system view isn't a directory tree view.
@yiz Four of us!
No. Five.
 
0
Q: Importing a CMake project in QtCreator

linelloI'm trying to import my Cmake project in QtCreator, which I'd want to use as code editor, but with completition for Qt classes an the possibility to do the build via Ctrl+R When importing the Cmake project, the QtCreator ide hangs when running CMakeWizard when I try to select RunCmake. If I canc...

Did you do this?
 
@Rapptz Yeah. That helped. First hit on Google I think.
 
Hm
 
Really like the IDE. Though I'm not used to the no file tabs interface.
And this parentheses that pops when you click on one of them. Totally cool.
 
yiz
@MarkGarcia 5 if you include the beetle
@ScottW hey scott de pup
 
6:35 AM
@yiz You mean Jerry's?
 
yiz
yeah
 
@yiz I think it's a bee. Not sure though.
Now six.
 
sbi
What happened to this room? There's more users logged into the sandbox than here.
 
yiz
an ape is not a farm animal
quality of people, not quantity is what makes an elite chat
 
sbi
@yiz With you lot being here, I had long since given up on quality.
@yiz How observant. (Also, see posting above.)
 
yiz
6:43 AM
quality is some what a subjective observation
quantity isn't
 
@yiz Cross or close your eyes.
 
sbi
@yiz It's not always subjective. For example, spelling quality is somewhat objective.
 
yiz
well but it is, what is right for Americans are not necessarily right for Britishs. Take the spelling of "metre" for example
 
@MarkGarcia It's actually a yellow jacket, which is a type of wasp. While they look somewhat like bees, they act quite a bit different (they're predators, where most bees are basically foragers).
@ScottW That they are -- but also highly social.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh. I think my mother was once attacked by one of those. She then had a fever for 3 days.
She told me that the sting felt like some sharp rock thrown at her head.
 
6:53 AM
@MarkGarcia They are (or can be) pretty vicious, but that sounds like a much more violent reaction than usual. I'd guess she was allergic.
@ScottW Stung.
 
sting.
 
@JerryCoffin Could be. Thankfully, it's not serious.
 
sbi
@ScottW Dogs, of course.
 
mosquitoes
 
yiz
@ScottW can't @ moment, extremely busy ... should get back to work
 
sbi
6:55 AM
@Rapptz Actually, that's wrong. They sting, too.
@ScottW I have once seen a wasp bite a fly's head off. But when they hurt you, it's through stinging.
 
Hmm.. I don't know what definition of sting you're using.
 
morning
 
Proboscis vs mandibles vs stinger, no?
 
@LucDanton :)
 
nothing much
have to write a reference implementation for some crypto stuff today
 
6:59 AM
@nightcracker Don't forget to CYA.
 
you know what's fun?
 

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