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Xeo
1:00 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Meh, I wrote it up in my text editor and submitted it.
The new revision is better
I hope, anyways.
 
@Xeo Your text editor sucks :P
 
Xeo
Hm... now I wonder why the headline is still in, I thought I removed that.
 
How can both std::combine_hash and hash support for std::tuple be overlooked?
 
Xeo
Oh well
 
@LucDanton Not enough heads to have someone care, probably.
 
1:03 PM
Now I'm wondering about type-erasure. I don't want to reinvent Boost.TypeErasure for C++11 ;_;
 
I know the feel.
 
user142019
This question is asked every day. stackoverflow.com/questions/949433/…Armin 26 mins ago
 
user142019
Haha genius comment.
 
I need to write a any_sequence for any_text to work, and a any_encoding_scheme for handling data without statically known encoding, and any_something_else_i_forget..
It amounts to reinventing the same crap over and over.
 
@Zoidberg hey, you got a mac right?
 
user142019
1:07 PM
Sure.
 
got firefox installed?
 
user142019
Nope.
 
user142019
Why would I install that crap.
 
ok, nvm then.
 
Has anyone had any bad experiences with libpqxx?
 
user142019
1:08 PM
@Chisholm Just two seconds ago.
 
@Chisholm Sounds like a lovely name for a library.
 
user142019
The webpage didn't load within ten seconds. Quite a bad experience.
 
@Zoidberg 'x = ++i + ++i + ++i;' tends to turn up on Tuesdays and Fridays. 'Every day' is an exaggeration, (OK, still bloody annoying).
 
@Zoidberg yeah that is not helping it's credibility at the moment
libpqxx is in ubuntu's package repo so that's a plus
 
user142019
Its API looks like idiomatic C++ for so far as I've seen it.
 
user142019
1:11 PM
With iterators and shit.
 
that's a fucking miracle then
 
WIll the professor who originally wrote the 'x = ++i + ++i + ++i;' homework question please stand up - the sniper cannot get a clear shot.
 
@Zoidberg yeah they claim to try to keep their syntax inline with stl
 
user142019
Awesome.
 
Ugh iterators. Fuck you C++.
 
Xeo
1:12 PM
haha
Blame Stepanov
 
I can't really blame him. Would you like things to be as they were before he taught the C++ community how things should be done?
 
Xeo
Blame him for not doing better!
 
user1357851
@MartinJames how about 'i = ++i + ++i + ++i;'
 
(And apparently, the C++ community as a whole is still learning it)
@Xeo Nope. I blame the community for taking 15 years to realize they could do better.
 
What's wrong with iterators? What could be better?
 
1:16 PM
I was looking at soci, but they don't seem to have a nice way of selecting and interating over several rows of data with multiple columns but the genericness of soci data library would be nice to have
 
Xeo
@kbok Ranges
 
Stepanov said that ranges are no good because some algorithms require three iterators
 
@kbok If I give you an iterator there is nothing you can do with it.
 
user1357851
I am not surprised they took 15 years, just look at the total IQ here
 
@thecoshman it's not "English" at all
 
1:17 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can dereference it :P
 
@bamboon No, you cannot.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm sure I could sell it to some tourist
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes haha, knew that was coming.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What would you rather have then?
 
Xeo
@Abyx Those either implicitly require two ranges, actually, or could use two ranges just the same
@kbok RANGES
 
user142019
1:18 PM
Slice and map.
 
@kbok Iterators that know if they can iterate.
 
@Xeo But... How do you iterate over a range without iterators?
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg What about them?
 
I don't understand how ranges and iterators overlap
 
@kbok There is nothing you can do with a single iterator: you always need a pair.
 
user142019
1:19 PM
@Xeo they're pure and awesome.
 
A pair of iterators is a range.
 
I don't get iterators altogether.
 
Ah, ok
 
Xeo
@kbok How exactly you do it is up to the specific range, but you just need to provide some way of, say, applying something to every element.
 
btw, you can't do --it or it[-1] with a range
 
1:20 PM
You can get the first or the last element of a range
 
@Abyx No one showed any range design in this discussion. You are talking out of your ass. QED.
 
user142019
Quantum electrodynamics.
 
Xeo
@kbok Says who?
 
@Xeo Me?
 
Xeo
You can do whatever the fuck you want. Stop thinking in terms of iterators.
 
1:21 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok, with a non-optimal design you can do that
so... ranges are slow.
 
Xeo
@kbok Sorry, read that as "can't".
lol
 
Basically what I don't like is that the concept you end up using is always the range concept (i.e. pair of iterators), but you have to use iterators.
 
user142019
@Abyx OH NO PERFORMANCE
 
user142019
What do we do now
 
@Abyx That's bullshit.
 
1:22 PM
@Xeo Okay :) That was confusing
 
Xeo
@Abyx The twist: They're not.
 
user142019
They're an abstraction it must be so sloow.
 
they eat to much memory, so they are slow.
 
(And "being able to do --it" means nothing because it implies iterators)
 
Xeo
@kbok The "can't" from Abyx above must've confused me.
@Abyx Are you just trolling now?
 
1:23 PM
@Xeo I'm not sure :(
 
@Abyx 16 fucking bytes
 
user142019
@Abyx struct range { iterator a, b; } my_range; doesn't eat more memory than iterator a, b;.
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg And is still the wrong abstraction :3
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit perhaps, but it IS the de-facto
 
Memory consumption of iterators is something I have been bitching about for months here.
 
user142019
1:24 PM
@Xeo Do you need any more data members? :v
 
Xeo
You need less - less iterators, to be specific.
 
@Zoidberg What is wrong is the abstraction not the implementation
 
user142019
Oh wait of course. Nevermind then.
 
End iterators need to have the same members as normal iterators, and yet, there is nothing to store in them.
 
@Zoidberg nah, it's more like range a, b, c vs iterator a, b, c
 
Xeo
1:25 PM
@Abyx That doesn't make sense.
 
user142019
@Abyx wat.
 
Oh yeah, I need to purge my mini range experiment. What am I supposed to use instead of mercurial branches, because those suck? Bookmarks?
 
user142019
You would need iterator a_begin, a_end, b_begin, b_end, c_begin, c_end; if you want something like range a, b, c; but without ranges.
 
@Zoidberg Or not.
No one knows what the things in that example are supposed to mean.
Stop feeding the troll.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that a TV trope?
 
user142019
1:27 PM
It sounds like the title of a page you'd find on tvtropes. :P
 
user1357851
too cute:
 
user1357851
 
user142019
> If you spend a great deal of your time pretending to be an asshole to get a reaction from people… you aren't pretending. You are an asshole.
8
 
user142019
lol
 
void foo(iterator a, iterator b) { iterator c = a + (b - a) / 2; ... // three iterators
void foo(range a) { range b = half(a), c = other_half(a); ... // three ranges
 
1:28 PM
@thecoshman *shrug* I'm really not so sure. The actual differences between English and American are not crucial to any such standard and I doubt they're even treated consistently
 
@Abyx Right, fooing stuff is harder with ranges. I wonder who needs to foo stuff.
 
And have you ever seen Indian English? AFAIK it is basically untouched by American imperialism
 
Xeo
@Abyx Pro-tip: Ranges are not necessarily two iterators.
 
user142019
Infinite ranges. :>
 
user1357851
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I thought most help desks/support use Indian English
 
1:30 PM
@Zoidberg That's the truest thing you've ever said. Shame it was a quote.
 
user142019
Fuck I forgot to sauce. :(
 
user142019
> — Ed Brayton
 
user142019
Fixed. :P
 
@Xeo And sometimes iterators can be four iterators.
 
user142019
1:31 PM
 
user142019
Sauce. And now I'm hungry.
 
This is why I prefer to just call bullshit until actual examples come forth.
 
@Zoidberg bullshit
 
Xeo
yea
 
user1357851
was it the cupcakes?
 
user142019
1:32 PM
@kbok bullshit
 
I can also provide artificial examples of iterators sucking beyond belief.
 
user142019
I have never used Boost.Range. On a scale from no to yes, is it good?
 
(Actually I can provide real ones by linking to my code, but I don't care)
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Except the artificial examples are probably harder to create than the real ones :P
 
user142019
my_map | map_values | filtered(is_even()) | reversed this looks nice as fuck.
 
1:34 PM
I just googled Boost.Rage
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg Aaaand... that's basically about it.
 
user142019
lollll
 
user142019
Still. :P
 
Xeo
Okay, you can throw in a transformed, but you kinda have that - map_values is just a transformed(select_2nd()) in disguise.
 
user142019
What about things like ranges of integers as in Ruby (1..10) or Haskell?
 
1:35 PM
Can you guys show a range design you like?
 
Xeo
boost::irange(1,11)
@bamboon RTL
(No, not the TV Channel)
 
@Xeo haha, martinho's?
 
user142019
@Xeo Hmm, nice. I can use that with .begin() and .end()?
 
Xeo
for(auto i : boost::irange(a,b))
 
user142019
I love this shit.
 
1:36 PM
@Zoidberg EVERYTHING in Boost.Range works with begin and end. Hint: it's still iterators all the way down.
 
I like this one
 
The implementation of every range or range adaptor in Boost.Range lives in an iterator.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmm.
 
Which, IMO, is precisely the reason why they don't provide any non-trivial operation.
 
user142019
So it's basically an std::pair<iterator, iterator> with make-up?
 
Xeo
1:37 PM
yea
 
Also this one is decent
 
user142019
Meh.
 
Xeo
Gimme my discussion back.
 
user142019
@Neil those puns.
 
1:38 PM
With this logic everything is assembly with make-up
 
@Zoidberg What can I say? I'm a punny guy.
 
user142019
Terripun.
 
user142019
Man. I suck so much. I basically have this code:
 
user142019
if (condition) return false;
return other_condition;
 
user1357851
algorithm behind xeo's moving to the bin actions: if the same user posted 2 pictures or more on the same page, they will be moved to the bin
 
1:40 PM
I'd move the user to the bin too if I could
 
user1357851
@Neil not a ponny guy?
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg Deja vu - how was that with null the other day?
 
user142019
@Xeo if (x == null) return null; return x;.
 
user142019
But this one can be simplified with &&.
 
@kbok Not quite. All Boost.Range ranges are really pairs of iterators. Some don't actually store the iterators, like irange, but that means you cannot use the same type for a subrange of some range: boost::sub_range<T> to the rescue, which happens to be precisely a pair of iterators with a different name (i.e. makeup).
 
user142019
1:41 PM
I was mumbling to myself about C++ lacking Maybe and <|> but I don't need that at all. Stupid brainfart, I have Booleans not boost::optionals. And I didn't think of &&.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit well, one is correct, and one is American
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes iterator_range<detail::integer_iterator<Int>>
:P
 
@Xeo Oh, it stores them?
It doesn't have to.
 
Xeo
template<class Integer>
iterator_range< range_detail::integer_iterator<Integer> >
irange(Integer first, Integer  last);
 
Ooooo... k.
Then well.
 
Xeo
1:43 PM
Suckage just went up?
 
I'll try to understand what you say once you're sure about it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes when tell?
 
Xeo
Remember, for Boost.Range, everything needs to be an iterator_range<>
Or sub_range<> I guess
 
@kbok Well, I was talking about a better library than Boost.Range, it seems...
@Xeo No.
 
lol
 
1:44 PM
@Xeo Because Boost.Range treats vector as a range.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I meant for what it exposes
All their "ranges"
 
I never understand why you guys don't propose your stuff to boost, if you think it sucks.
 
user142019
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was just about to ask whether containers should be ranges themselves or should have a range() member function. :P
 
Xeo
But hey, there's still hope: Maybe iterator_range<detail::integer_iterator<Int>> is specialized!
 
Without std::wstring_convert am I SOL when it comes to std::string -> std::wstring (or putting an std::string into an std::wostream)?
 
1:45 PM
@Zoidberg A range is anything with begin() and end() (hence the name RBFL)
 
@Zoidberg I convinced Luc of the former being a mistake sometime last week, I think. You could look up the transcript.
 
Xeo
@Zoidberg Latter, I honestly think
 
@thecoshman Indeed :)
 
@LucDanton What's SOL?
 
Xeo
@kbok I'd like to buy a different range, please.
@R.MartinhoFernandes "shit outta luck"
 
user142019
1:46 PM
@kbok imagine "lonely" iterators don't exist.
 
@LucDanton There's the tomb functions and friends...
 
I can imagine anything but that's the way it is currently
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You want to bury me :(
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I have first hand experience at Indian English... it's interesting to say the least.
 
@thecoshman Similarly. Isn't it?
;)
 
Xeo
1:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Especially with destructive range iteration
 
user142019
I wonder how well this works. github.com/thearn/webcam-pulse-detector
 
@thecoshman indian english rocks everything.
 
user142019
It's magic!
 
@Xeo Meh, there isn't much difference, I guess. It takes the same space. The stupid is that iterator_ranges don't need sub_range.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit ... on a potentially related note, do you work in telecoms?
 
user142019
 
@Zoidberg you know, Erlang is not limit it to telecoms (in theory)
 
user142019
I know, but it was its first application. :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz And you don't like OpenGL or something?
 
user142019
And it's part of the open telecom platform.
 
@Zoidberg The team that did this initial research actually open sourced there stuff.
 
1:50 PM
No idea why I cared about std::wostream to begin with. Let's get rid of all that.
 
@Zoidberg no shit
 
user142019
Don't take me too seriously.
 
@Zoidberg no fear of that happening any time soon
 
user142019
:)
 
Btw, is there a std::u32stringstream? If not, does std::basic_stringstream<char32_t> work?
 
Xeo
1:51 PM
I think all the basic_ stuff is aliased for the 4 char types?
 
user142019
I'm eating this today. :3
 
Xeo
You're eating in the bin today.
 
Wait, that wouldn't be of much help anyway.
 
user142019
 
@Zoidberg that looks like vomit
 
user142019
1:52 PM
You look like vomit.
 
You still need to know the console encoding and whatever-the-fuck-it-takes-to-know-in-Windows to make Unicode output properly.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes why don't you just make a new and better standard to compete with unicode?
 
@thecoshman What.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dunno if the alias exists, but the latter is supposed to work, yes. Possibly doesn't come imbued properly I guess.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes silly, I'm being it
 
1:56 PM
> hg qnew [-e] [-m TEXT] [-l FILE] PATCH [FILE]...
What's PATCH supposed to be? It doesn't tell.
 
@thecoshman (Also, provably impossible if you keep the same goals; you would have to keep the same crap)
 
It's guess it's a short and sweet identifier? meh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes make it with better goals (but I'd rather just stop this silly idea now)
 

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