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user1357851
2:00 PM
what are you patching?
 
@Telkitty you might be confusing what people mean by 'unix' and '*nix'
 
@DeadMG Looks liek ranges.
 
Xeo
"Webapps - or skins around databases, as I like to call them" - lol
 
yeah, it seemed happy enough except for them
but I'm not sure if simply deleting them is wise... or feasible, given how large it is.
 
#DEFINE var auto
 
2:01 PM
@Xeo Yeah - liked that!
 
@Xeo, I laughed hysterically at that point.
 
@TonyTheLion Coincidentally he's a goon too
 
That video of Thomas Figg on Programming was awesome! :P
 
Also talking about universities
:haw:
 
huh
patch keeps insisting that my files do not exist.
 
2:05 PM
Really awesome! :P
 
@DeadMG Are you sure you should be using patch?
What VCS are you using?
 
git
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
it's a diff, but it's named "testsuite.patch".
 
@DeadMG Then it's likely it's a git patch.
 
2:07 PM
git apply
 
31 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
git apply --check xxx.patch, followed by git am --signoff < xxx.patch
 
typical.
oh I didn't see that
 
First command applies it and lets you confirm it works before commiting.
Second makes it for real.
 
yeah, but this folder is not a Git repository.
 
@DeadMG ... you realise all a git repository is, is just a folder with some git meta data in... it's not some magical folder
 
2:08 PM
yeah, but Git won't eat my patch, so
 
git apply doesn't need a repo
 
but GIt will cry if I do git apply xxx.patch.
 
What does it say
Or do you just assume it won't work and not even try
 
unrecognized input
 
Have you heard of the guy who compiled a database of 15 Gb of common passwords ? I have better.
 
2:11 PM
@ereOn lol
 
Xeo
> !! ALL 4 DIGIT PINCODES HACKED !! :-)
BWAHAHAHAHA
 
> Once you come to terms with how terrible programming is, C is a perfectly acceptable second language.
 
the thing to execute this thing is a Perl file, and the shell can't find /bin/perl, even though I have the latest perl.
 
Run which perl and see the path.
 
@DeadMG might be /usr/bin/perl
 
2:12 PM
yeah /usr/bin/perl
huh
 
Should be #!/usr/bin/env perl, because env is more or less always in the same place, and it finds the rest.
 
yes yes, consistent is not the best description of linux os's
 
apparently now I'm not allowed to use the "Save" function.
stupid permissions crap
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, changing the script to be /usr/bin/perl also caused Bash to cry.
damn, I hate linux.
 
should never have taken this damn job.
 
... attitude ...
 
This thing is nice. crackstation.net
 
There is, based upon what I wrote but there isn't if just compiling the example I posted. I am not expecting the example to be compiled but I am expecting someone who is familiar with such compiler errors to provide a reasoning. I haven't specified specifically what the compiler error is which results in a malformed question. — user633658 1 min ago
what?
 
@sehe you're right. We shall overcome. We shall overcome. We shall overcome someday.
 
Fuck trolls
He posts code where the only error is forgetting an include, and then complains that the answer isn't the forgotten include
morons make me cry
 
2:19 PM
difficult not to have a negative attitude about a set of tools and an operating system which plain don't work unless you have hours to expend and years of experience, and endlessly bother me telling me I'm not allowed to do shit unless I tell it I give myself permission.
 
Seriously, I very very rarely need to use chmod.
Pretty much only when I'm making a new script and need to bless it with +x.
 
@TonyTheLion Leave him in his mess. You try to help him, he complains. Let him die.
 
@ereOn Yea, I'm going to do that.
 
 
lolwat
 
2:22 PM
@user633658 If you don't want any help, then don't seek it. — Etienne de Martel 20 secs ago
 
i wanted to see if his website would get the string from the md5
 
> hell no! This is not the answer I am seeking.
hahhahahahahaa
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I already hate that guy.
 
Something for the "oh god dependencies" crowd
 
2:23 PM
@CatPlusPlus s/#/&/
 
> I go mad.
lol, totally
 
This is from "copy URL at this time" it'll work too
 
It does not.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 'Because the code I posted is an example of the code I have written which generates the compile-time errors' - another 'hate' vote from me.
 
It worked for Tony
It's around 36 minutes
 
2:25 PM
8 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@ThePhD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c&t=36m30s :P
 
> Andre bugs ....
lol
 
> The best way to be a good programmer is try to get fired as soon as possible.
 
argh
 
I downvoted your question because you admitted below it was "malformed", so it's not a good question. — Etienne de Martel 5 secs ago
 
2:27 PM
Ubuntu can't even render the fucking terminal
 
argh.
not only does patch think that my folder doesn't exist, but Perl also thinks this.
 
@Xeo That doesn't make too much sense.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Which part?
 
2:30 PM
> Easy to replace not easy to extend.
 
Decay<auto>
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wow! I never knew I was such a good programmer.
 
Hi ILoaders
 
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Welp, or Unqualified<auto> (with the specification that "auto in a return type represents the perfectly-deduced return type and is not subject to non-deduced contexts")
Anyways, it's complicated
 
2:32 PM
@CatPlusPlus His notes had crashed at that time and he was starting to lose track..
 
That specification is as good as 'do what I want'.
 
Xeo
:s
 
What does Thomas Figg do anyways?
 
He's a terrible programmer.
 
There's nothing on his Google+ profile.
 
2:33 PM
@MartinJames Well, it's not wrong, it's YAGNI really
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yea, but does he work for google or something?
 
@GamesBrainiac Who?
 
Why do you care?
 
Xeo
Thing is, if you want to stay with just auto foo(), you'll either not get perfectly-deduced return types, or you'll need to do something to actually get a copy / move.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Guy from the presentation in the video on the starboard.
 
Xeo
2:34 PM
Is what I think at the moment, anyways.
Please prove me wrong. :<
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just want to know. Just curious, thats all.
@EtiennedeMartel This guy : youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c&t=20m
 
@CatPlusPlus YAGNI works just fine as long as customers neve change their minds and never ask for enhancements.
 
They do, that's why your overblown architecture is going to be obsolete in 2 weeks
Keep it simple
 
@DeadMG Are you seriously whining you don't have experience relevant for your job? You're getting the experience now. Take that chance.
 
@MartinJames What.
2
 
2:35 PM
@MartinJames YAGNI works fine especially in cases where customers change their minds
 
@jalf beat me to it.
 
that's the entire point in not implementing something until you need it. Because by the time you need it, you actually know what it is they want
 
Looking at the slides, it sounds like he's bitter as fuck.
 
@jalf No, it really doesn't.
 
That's basically the reason why YAGNI is a thing at all
@MartinJames what.
 
2:37 PM
Right. Implementing stuff you don't need is a lot better when the clients will change their minds later.
 
@MartinJames If your code has to be scrapped when customers change their minds, it's because it sucks, not because you didn't think enough ahead.
 
Now at least you have pointless code you never needed and will never need because you are not psychic and cannot predict which side of bed your clients will wake up.
 
@EtiennedeMartel My code rarely has to be scrapped because I do think ahead somewhat.
 
@MartinJames Let's try logic, for a change, shall we? If we assume that customers are going to change their minds and ask for enhancements, then it follows that these changes and enhancements are not known up front. If they are not known up front, then you can not possibly implement them up front
 
Oh, shit, @jalf is going into Arguing Mode.
 
2:38 PM
If you cannot implement the changes they're going to ask for up front, then you should not try to implement them up front. You should defer that until you actually know what they want
 
This is not a drill.
4
 
Which is what YAGNI means
 
I, too, love extensible XML powered dependency injected Java architectures full of other funny design patterns for ~extensibility~
 
Why don't you - at least - link to the other solutions (that were inclusive and insufficient). We're having to guess now, and - guess what - we're bound to post more "insufficient" answers. HELL NO! This is not the kind of thing we need — sehe 19 secs ago
 
@jalf No, indeed you are correct there. I can, however structure my design so that likely changes are not impossible without a rewrite.
 
2:39 PM
@jalf You know the clients will request random features, so you can start implementing random features right now, and then when they finally ask for random features, you already have random features. See? It's logic!
3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Better be good at rolling those 20s.
 
@EtiennedeMartel gotta roll a minimum 21 to get it right.
 
@MartinJames (sssh! no need to make people jeaulous of our super powers)
 
I'm not suggesting actually implementing code for stuff that is not asked for. I am, however, much in favour of allowing as much design flexibility as I can reasonably come up with.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I am used to having the ability to fudge the dice, so I might be biased.
 
2:41 PM
@MartinJames Yeah, but there's a fine line between "flexible" and "overengineered".
 
@sehe I am gaining experience- the experience that if you want to do anything, you have to have memorized a billion magical incantations, of which there is no useful source except asking people who already know them, if they have the time, inclination, and knowledge of that specific incantation.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not really. Usually, a well factored design is effortlessly flexible
@DeadMG No shit. Was that news for you?
 
@sehe So, my whole life was a lie?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not about implementing random features, or even guessing features that turn out to be required after all. It's about a top-level design that has sufficient flexibility to accommodate changes and enhancements.
 
@MartinJames So you're saying that "writing maintainable code" somehow contradicts YAGNI? I think you missed one or two steps in that deduction
 
Xeo
2:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes DM caprice!!
 
(In other news, I really like carrots)
 
@sehe I did kinda think the world had moved on since, like, 1970.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Erm. How should I know?
 
How does any of that show that "YAGNI only works when the client never changes their mind", which was your claim
 
@DeadMG There are useful sources of information out there.
 
2:43 PM
@DeadMG Yep we did. Everything is still relatively relative. That's the new old perspective.
 
(There were already in 1970, btw)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes We're sitting on it
 
@jalf and @MartinJames, time out. What does "YAGNI" mean, for both of you?
 
@sehe Yes, unfortunately, there are a lot of non-well factored designs.
 
I feel like you're arguing semantics here.
 
2:43 PM
<xs:documentation>dfgdfgdfg</xs:documentation> lol
just found that in a .xsd
 
Xeo
@DeadMG You do know about man, right?
 
You could be right.
 
@Xeo Of course not. He hasn't memorized that magic incantation yet.
 
@DeadMG Ok, one more time, with feeling: ...attitude...
 
@Xeo Actually, yes, but there's nothing useful in there.
 
2:45 PM
(And I think I'll leave you to your merry self with your delightfully unproductive ranting. It's part of the deal. I'll have to accept it)
 
I hope I'm not secretly a carrot, because that would make me a cannibal.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG ...
 
@DeadMG got to say, I am really enjoying you having to ask others for once. It's a shame people are not willing to simple auto-bin you attempts to ask for help on matters in which you simple have no idea where to start.
 
@Xeo Hey, he'll grow up eventually.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Where the hell did that come from man?
 
2:45 PM
@DeadMG Right. There isn't. Fools we are that none of us concluded this long ago. We shall carry on, enlightened, and slightly disillusioned
 
@jalf You take the customer requirments and strictly implement them exactly in the quickest way possible. Next week you do that again.
 
3 mins ago, by Etienne de Martel
(In other news, I really like carrots)
 
TIL Objective-C
 
@EtiennedeMartel Now, that makes sense.
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz I'm all for Objecting-C. If you try to compile it, you just get an ASCII art of the grumpy cat wtih No. under it.
 
2:46 PM
@MartinJames So, to appease the YAGNI police, just strive for well-factored designs. Just because they make you more agile. Still the same, but it sounds more acceptable to new-lighters
 
@Xeo [NSString "nice"]
 
> Basically education got to them before you could help them learn
 
Xeo
@Luc: I'd really appreciate your thoughts on the auto thing. (ref: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/8200817#8200817)
 
2:49 PM
I need someone to buy Super Hexagon with me
it's 4.99E in 2-pack
anyone? :>
 
yesterday, by Luc Danton
Possible way out is adding more obscure arcana and syntax, e.g. auto&& foo() { return blarg; }. Which I guess would go []() -> auto&& { return blarg; } for lambdas (not as convenient), and would mean you're screwed. Unless you pick that as the default.
 
Sorry, actually the gist references CudaMemory.hpp but it's CudaMemory.h in real life - I wrote .hpp because of the gist parser which looked to use c++ for hpp and c for h alone. I changed it in the gist. Looks like it still uses c++ even with .h — Alexandre Kaspar 3 mins ago
^ helpful. not
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's literally 9PLN
 
Xeo
@LucDanton IOW, this is really fucked up?
 
What is?
 
2:52 PM
@BartekBanachewicz humblebundle?
 
@CatPlusPlus it's 3 euro on steam
 
Xeo
The return type deduction thing. Whatever way you go, it seems to only make things worse.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Never heard of it. I thought it was a graphics lib. I had to google it.
 
@CatPlusPlus uh and after I finally started using Steam
 
2:53 PM
But seriously 3$ vs 3€
 
It's on the current Humble Bundle as well, if you pay more than the average (5.86$ US)
 
@CatPlusPlus Every day I'm hisptering.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Eh?
 
@CatPlusPlus The trailer gave me the ability to have seizures from flashing lights, and then a seizure.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Not even the same prices, pah.
 
2:54 PM
@SamDeHaan i bought the previous one
 
@LucDanton The game is 100x worse
It's awesome
 
let's check my paypal
4.56USD
sweet.
 
Have you ever had to use template <typename foo> instead of template <class foo>
 
Fuck - I have to try it now. Maybe it would be safer to get Anne to try it.
 
@GamesBrainiac it's exactly the same
 
2:55 PM
@GamesBrainiac The two are completely interchangeable.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not from my experience, you cannot set default values when you use typename.
 
Xeo
@GamesBrainiac Bullshit
 
@GamesBrainiac bs
 
@Xeo With class, you can just do this : template <class something = std::string>
 
@GamesBrainiac Have you tried sprinkling some magic herbs and saying a small incantation?
 
Xeo
2:56 PM
@GamesBrainiac And with typename, you can do exactly the same.
 
I can't do the same with typename
 
Xeo
@GamesBrainiac Then you suck
 
@GamesBrainiac Perhaps if you try really hard, you can.
 
Xeo
Or your compiler sucks. One of the two.
 
Once I had issues setting a uint8_t to 320. But I insisted and in the end it worked.
 
2:57 PM
Jun 9 '11 at 11:55, by Martinho Fernandes
Obtain a blank piece of paper [1].
Tear, or cut, the paper into small pieces.
Upon each piece, write down a label for an element you wish to sort. Use one piece of paper for each and every element.
For mystical, or even pseudo-religious, effect you might wish to perform some sort of ceremony on the paper now. A song is usually good. A dance adds an extra air of authenticity [2].
Place all of the pieces of paper into a hat, or other container.
One-by-one, remove each piece of paper, and form a line on a desk, or failing everything else, the floor.
 
The trick was to "force" the affectation. See:

uint8_t val;
val = 320; // Doesn't work.
val == 320; // Works well.

I learnt that on the PHP channel.
 
Xeo
haha
 
I'll just go with class, has the least problems.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's nice.
 
@GamesBrainiac yes, you can
 
2:59 PM
@ereOn What? People don't learn things on the php channel.
 
@GamesBrainiac Show example.
 

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