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6:00 PM
lol
 
Well okay /dev/null is faster
 
user3010322
._.
 
user3010322
Nevermind.
 
No, I meant it. mmap can be slower.
It is different, not faster.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus Nooo! Requires system calls!
 
6:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus That's not necessarily true either, oddly enough.
 
terrrrrribru
 
Nothing's easy, everything's terrible
 
wide isn't terrible
 
It isn't anything.
 
@DeadMG sure it is
 
6:01 PM
:P
 
@rightfold im looking for a good direction to pickup C++ in the context of game programming and related math
2
 
lol
 
user1804599
You cannot pick up C++ in two weeks either.
 
user1804599
Make it two decades and you’ll get the basics!
 
@Syler IMO, don't
 
6:02 PM
@Syler OH, I see. I misunderstood. 2 weeks - you're doomed.
 
hey, according to this random program I picked up, Wide is 14,555 lines.
that's not zero.
 
Wait, you don't know C++ yet?
 
@Syler LOL
even I took a good two to three years.
 
@DeadMG lol. Hey everyone, check out this child prodigy over here!
 
user1804599
 
6:03 PM
I'm too old to still be a child prodigy
 
user3010322
@Syler I would strongly advise you to avoid C++ as your kickoff for doing game programming.
 
It takes me two weeks to get all the linker errors out.
 
Use a vacuum cleaner.
 
@ThePhD i am a seasoned C# developer
 
Or a ferret.
 
6:04 PM
@DeadMG I don't think that's the problem :P
 
user3010322
@Syler Then program in C#, why are you coming to C++?
 
user1804599
@Syler that’s irrelevant.
 
user1804599
C++ is a totally different beast.
 
Too much lint in my sources - blocks the filter.
 
That's what the ferret is for.
 
6:05 PM
Is it bad to answer the title question directly? stackoverflow.com/questions/20358032/…
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes LOL!
 
well i want to get game programming and i have an interview that asks for C++ skills
 
user3010322
Oh, that's your reason.
 
yup
 
user3010322
Well, start by screwing around in C++.
 
6:06 PM
i have a interview with a game developer
 
user3010322
How long until the interview?
 
Eh, they won't know C++ either
 
user1804599
Oooh, in that case you don’t have to know C++ at all!
 
Look at the gamedev stackxchange, they can't C++ for shit :).
 
6:06 PM
@JerryCoffin I suspect that the OP wants more than a function prototype, yes.
 
@Syler You won't stand a chance in hell.
 
@Syler Obligatory: abstrusegoose.com/249
4
 
@DeadMG is it me, or are there more words that usually accompany this phrase?
 
@JerryCoffin lol guys this serious
 
@Pawnguy7 ", bitch!"?
 
6:07 PM
@MartinJames That's not a prototype--that's fully implemented.
 
@Syler We are serious.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm guessing that's the time-travel one.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes snowflake, actually
 
@MartinJames Of course.
 
6:07 PM
@Syler It's an understatement.
@Pawnguy7 The "snowflake" version is also common.
 
@JerryCoffin That's not helpful. He doesn't have 21 days.
 
How on Earth do you want to teach yourself C++ in "a sitting" :)?
 
user3010322
C with clases.
 
@JerryCoffin Oh, sorry - I didn't look any further down than the title:)
 
user3010322
ezpz.
 
6:08 PM
Gamedevs are terrible at C++, so you can get away with C
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Switch with cases.
 
OH: You're doing what with the bug?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Requires only a minor adjustment of the Delorean.
 
Carry-on luggage only.
 
I have been much more efficient with vectors since I learned the find-replace thing.
 
6:10 PM
VS DEBUGGER Y U NO BREAK ON ASSERTION FAILURE
for fuck's sake it's like the damn thing just forgot to attach or something.
 
@DeadMG 'COS YOU NOT ENABLE BREAK ON ASSERTION FAILURE, (maybe? :).
 
i dont expect to pick upeverything in a setting
 
user1804599
At best you’ll know that main returns int.
 
like i know pointers, polymorphism, a little bit of stl
 
that's amazing!
 
6:12 PM
so basically you know nothing
 
user1804599
What kind of polymorphism?
 
he means subclass polymorphism
 
@Syler No. The thing is, reverting to serious mode, you have literally no chance of bluffing you way round any sort of serious C++ interview with 2 weeks of experience.
 
(as everyone who has no clue and just says polymorphism)
 
user1804599
6:13 PM
@ScarletAmaranth stop ruining my tests.
 
I still wonder if I learned polymorphism like algebra.
I learned something, but if you asked me, I couldn't quite tell you exactly what it was.
 
> let (!=) a b = a /= b
Ho ho ho.
 
@Jefffrey That Haskell?
 
overloading, virtual functions, inheritance etc i know these concepts
 
6:14 PM
Yup.
 
let (!=) = (/=)
Do it like a pro.
 
@Syler So basically you know nothing.
 
user1804599
@Syler nice.
 
Syler, what about parametric polymorphism?
 
lol
 
6:14 PM
What about ownership?
 
@Syler Can you build stuff, get rid of obscure linker errors? Debug?
 
I heard templates are easy
 
Ahaha he's going to be talking with a game developer
 
user1804599
So you know these concepts, right?
 
@DeadMG that's not nothing
 
6:15 PM
Does game development use templates now?
 
@StackedCrooked YOU! :) hello! :)
 
depends on the developer
and whether or not they're a total moron
 
TEMPLATES ARE BLOAT or something
 
C++ is ownership, templates, and the other stuff.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Hello, fellow One Piece watcher :D
 
6:15 PM
templates are slow! (that's my favourite one)
 
@DeadMG Ah.. so there IS a chance after all.
 
C++ Templates are a language per se.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I don't... how?
Or do you mean when compiling?
 
@Pawnguy7 Sarcastically.
 
@rightfold I did know concepts, before they vaporized.
 
6:16 PM
@ScarletAmaranth all the template overhead is killing my CPU
 
user3010322
<_>
 
You should get those eyes checked out.
 
@StackedCrooked same, my templates have real shit of a runtime performance
 
Yeah, void* is where it's at.
 
exactly, not like indirection inhibits every optimization in the world and ruins your 40 levels of caches on your 16 cores
 
6:17 PM
Pity void** is undefined.
 
nope dont know parametric polymorphism
 
user3010322
Neeeveeer!
 
i know polymorphism allows overloading operators
 
@StackedCrooked Do you think spoilers will ensue as this new "arc" has just come to its end :)?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Does not work :( (Couldn't match expected type ()' with actual type Integer')
 
6:17 PM
@Syler no that's false
 
@Jefffrey what?
 
@Jefffrey You learning Haskell now?
 
user1804599
@Syler Give the output of this program.
 
spoilers? If new information is revealed within the series then it's not really a spoiler, is it?
 
Haskell is fun, whenever I'm feeling too smart, I'll try to write something trivial in it
 
user1804599
6:18 PM
Starting simple.
 
@StackedCrooked fillers*
 
@Jefffrey Oh. Sorry. That won't work in the interpreter. If you want nitty-gritty ugly details, you can google "monomorphism restriction".
 
@StackedCrooked (brain damage)
 
It works if you write it in a file, like (!=) = (/=).
 
6:19 PM
Oh, fillers. Yeah probably one or two.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Monomorphism restriction; add explicit type.
 
As long as I don't know that they are fillers it's probably fine.
 
@rightfold +1
 
@Pawnguy7 Reading about it is more appropriate.
 
@StackedCrooked lol
 
6:20 PM
@rightfold Don't know what an explicit type is. I've only read about variables and "truth values" for now. Still a newb.
 
@StackedCrooked yeah I didn't realize with the... as they fell off the Skypiea... anyway, you've been well?
@Jefffrey then please do not look monomorphism restriction up ^^
 
hmmm
I assume that it would be hideously and totally broken if I had a situation where decltype(t()) was not t.
 
@ScarletAmaranth yep, I'm good.
 
@DeadMG how does that even happen?
 
@ScarletAmaranth With bugs in his code.
 
6:24 PM
well
@R.MartinhoFernandes Actually, I was thinking of introducing it, it's not an existing bug.
 
@ScarletAmaranth you mean the episode where they enter a marine base and Sanji becomes an interim cook?
 
Xeo
@Jefffrey let (!=) = (/=) :: Eq a => a -> a -> Bool
 
that was quite good actually
 
@rightfold output would be 10?
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, that thing, pretty cool really :)
 
user1804599
6:24 PM
@Syler epic fail.
 
user1804599
Go back to learn C++ and try again in two years.
 
crap
 
@Xeo Simpler to put variables.
 
@ScarletAmaranth It does
 
2 years :D
 
Xeo
6:25 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes heh
 
Overloading is ad hoc polymorphism
 
it doesn't "enable" it
 
There's one filler where they encounter a dragon. And many years later when they meet a dragon in the real story, the are like OMG a dragon, they really exist!?
 
user1804599
@ScarletAmaranth You should know about this within two years. :v
 
or whatever the hell he said
 
6:25 PM
@Xeo What?
 
You wouldn't be able to overload operators without overloading so
 
@rightfold I just liked the style you crushed his 2 weeks dreams with, that's all
 
Xeo
@Jefffrey Better do as the robot said: let a != b = a /= b
 
ah
I'm not actually sure there are any places in the core language where that would come up.
 
@Syler btw, look up "slicing"
 
6:27 PM
@Xeo That doesn't work either (if it was meant to be written on the console).
 
Xeo
@Jefffrey that should definitly work. Try :t (!=)
 
> (!=) :: Eq a => a -> a -> Bool
 
Xeo
There should be no "let" in the front
wait
@Jefffrey Oh, sorry, I thought you replied to my later message
 
@Xeo Yeah, my mistake.
 
Xeo
Okay, yeah, type signatures suck in GHCi
 
6:31 PM
Oh, no, yeah. let a != b = a /= b works just like let (!=) a b = (/=) a b works :)
 
Xeo
let (!=) :: Eq a => a -> a -> Bool; (!=) = (/=)
 
user3010322
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH
 
user3010322
JPEG SAVING WORKS
 
Xeo
Guess that works too
 
user3010322
6:31 PM
Screenshots for EVERYONE. <3
 
user3010322
I also need a PNG writer, 'cause they're cool too.
 
user1804599
TIFF.
 
user1804599
PDF.
 
user3010322
s/./ blows majorly.
 
user3010322
I wonder if Windows Picture Viewer can handle webp
 
6:33 PM
I'll need to wake up at 7am tomorrow. It's gonna be fun, considering that that is the hour I usually go to bed at.
 
@Jefffrey yeah I know exactly the feeling
 
§
 
@rightfold i guess thats a good place to start
 
user3010322
WINDOWS PHOTO VIEWER CAN'T HANDLE WEBP @Borgleader
 
user1804599
@Syler see here for a good start.
 
user3010322
6:35 PM
Therefore, useless.
 
@ThePhD You can download a driver, its on the page I linked yesterday
 
@rightfold Gosh no, avoid PDF.
 
user3010322
@Borgleader It's not worth saving files (screenshots, really) in WebP if the average user needs to download a WIC driver to use them :|
 
> WebP Codec for Windows that implements the Windows Imaging Component decoder interface and allows you to open WebP files using Windows Photo Viewer, view WebP thumbnails in Windows Explorer, and support WebP in other programs that use WIC (such as Microsoft Office 2010).
 
user3010322
JPEG or PNG all teh way.
 
6:36 PM
@rightfold lol
 
@ThePhD Starting with Vista, Windows picture viewer can handle essentially any format possible (given a codec for that format).
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin I can't expect all my users to get a codec to handle it.
 
What is Photo Viewer
 
user3010322
This is mostly for saving screenshots. I have no problem using it internally for my own stuff, but for saving screenshots? JPEG, PNG, BMP are king.
 
Why are you using it
 
user3010322
6:38 PM
@CatPlusPlus Default windows image viewer.
 
Never heard of it
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus Because that's all other users have.
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus That's oaky. :D
 
Very woody
 
@CatPlusPlus I thought you were a computer expert? :P
 
user3010322
6:38 PM
Or at least, that's all I can reliably expect my user to have.
 
@TonyTheLion You've reminded me of the IT Crowd scene with Jane being interviewed for the position
 
@ThePhD I'm not expecting anything--just pointing out that it's an open framework that accommodates arbitrary formats.
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin Mmm. I could bundle a bunch of codecs with my application, and silently spread them throughout the world, unbeknownst to them.
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Word document.
 
the bigger challenge about interviews is being able to think and answer on the spot
 
6:41 PM
it's simple, you just need to know the answers to stuff you're asked
 
WHAT IS 23081313 TIMES 240239823
 
who is supposed to memorize all these constants :)
 
at gameloft they asked me to write a palindrome function which was easy
 
@CatPlusPlus lots
 
they gave me a choice in C++ or C#
 
user1804599
6:43 PM
@Syler palindrome←{×/⍵=⊖⍵} APL ftw.
 
@Syler in c++ you'd just pull off a one-liner, return std::string(original.rbegin(), original.rend()) == original
 
zch
@CatPlusPlus -1337511569
 
@CatPlusPlus 5.54505E+15
 
@scarletamar they dont want you to use stl lib
that would defeat the purpose
 
@Syler I don't want to work for them then
 
6:46 PM
:laffo: gamedevs
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus UB.
 
@Syler ugh
fuck them
 
lol
 
like they asked me to write a function to find the bounds of a rectangle
 
6:46 PM
In assembly
 
its trivial if you use a math library
 
@rightfold well when compared to Word documents, PDFs have the advantage of having easily available documentation. But as soon as start with it, you'll exist the docs didn't exist.
 
you a word?
 
For more biting off more than can possibly be chewed, see:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20356850/operating-system-in-c-c-and-assembly
 
> I (with the help of a team, of course) want to create an Operating System from scratch as I am fed up with Windows.
lol
 
6:48 PM
Better write bad gamedev code
 
:D
that's pretty rich
 
user1804599
@MartinJames Install Gentoo, problem solved.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Documentation on (recent) Word documents is easily available too. (ECMA 376 covers all the Office OpenXML formats). The documentation is horrible almost beyond belief, but it's easily accessible.
 
user1804599
And not adhered to!
 
@rightfold how you rate your skills in C++ from 1 to 10
*would
 
user1804599
6:50 PM
π/10.
 
@rightfold Rounded down?
 
@MartinJames Since it uses π, it's obviously already round.
 
"where to start", if you have to ask that, then I guess you should start by learning programming, how OS's actually work and how the hardware interacts with the OS. Once you know all those things, you can revise your "bright idea" of writing your own OS. — Tony The Lion 9 secs ago
 
@JerryCoffin Hah! LOL!
 
urgh noobs
 
6:52 PM
@TonyTheLion wise words :)
 
@TonyTheLion Yum boobs.
 
@JerryCoffin oh boobs, yes I like boobs
 
Boobs are cool.
 
user1804599
Boobs are hot.
 
6:53 PM
Boobs have nipples.
6
 
It's always a shame that beginners almost universally tend to think there's programming, which is just for loops and other useless stuff, and then there's some completely separate field, called "graphics", or "games" or "OS'es", and not getting that "it's all just programming, and the only reason those things seem magic to you, and "different" from what you understand as programming is that you do not yet know programming
 
@jalf Games are different!
They're totally not the same!
 
:)
 
@jalf Exactly this. I know this, because I used to think similar, in my noobier days.
 
I don't blame people for getting that impression, but it causes beginners to waste so much effort and end up getting discouraged by their failure
@TonyTheLion yeah, I think most of us did
 
6:55 PM
I think I learned a lot by hanging out here. :)
 
Although, games are not just programming.
 
Getting told off for doing dumb shit. (ie using raw pointers)
 
@EtiennedeMartel true, but games programming is ;)
 
Top 3 reasons a game project fails: lack of vision, placing tech over mechanics, improper supervision of artists.
Incidentally, gamedev.SE should focus on the non programming parts of game development.
That is, programming should be off topic there.
 
user3010322
I think it should be included there.
 
6:56 PM
@EtiennedeMartel yes
 
user3010322
Along with everything else.
 
I'm calling that OS dev thing out as a troll.
 
I argued for the same when the site was in a51
 
Actually, gamedev.SE should really be gamedesign.SE
 
@EtiennedeMartel Almost nothing (at least that's complete, ready to sell, etc.) is purely programming.
 
6:57 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I had a nice presentation from a guy who worked at Guerilla Games on Killzone Shadowfall during class :) If youre interested its also on youtube
 
@Borgleader Did he tell you why the game sucked?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not really
 
@EtiennedeMartel exactly! And then eventually sister sites Animation.SE and 3DModelling.SE
 
@Rapptz "game dev" is too broad.
 
user3010322
@jalf s/Animation.SE/deviantArt.SE
 
6:58 PM
@EtiennedeMartel that's not a bad thing
 
What kind of question would you ask on Porn.SE?
 
zch
And Modeling.SE
 
user3010322
"Is Tony's penis too big for me to handle?"
 
What comes with nipple salads?
 
@Borgleader Did he tell you why all games lack any form of ambition?
 
user3010322
6:59 PM
Nipple salads?
 
Nipple sauce?
 
user3010322
@EtiennedeMartel I'm ambitious!
 
@EtiennedeMartel It was about their rendering tech...
 
@TonyTheLion How can I stop my dog from sleeping upside-down?
 
@Borgleader Trick question: the guy isn't a game designer, and Killzone sucks because of poor design.
 
6:59 PM
@MartinJames lol
 

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