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12:00 PM
@sehe I thought Haskell's facilities were also Turing-Complete?
 
@thecoshman Ok, I'll ignore the "word" "proberly" and consider only the rest of the sentence.
 
@DeadMG That's why, eh
 
@DeadMG I've wondered that too on a few occasions! He just fucked off
 
@DeadMG "Gödelian stuffs" is the halting problem.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know. But FFT is not Halting-Problem.
 
12:01 PM
Gödel's incompleteness theorems are two theorems of mathematical logic that establish inherent limitations of all but the most trivial axiomatic systems capable of doing arithmetic. The theorems, proven by Kurt Gödel in 1931, are important both in mathematical logic and in the philosophy of mathematics. The two results are widely, but not universally, interpreted as showing that Hilbert's program to find a complete and consistent set of axioms for all mathematics is impossible, giving a negative answer to Hilbert's second problem. The first incompleteness theorem states that no consisten...
 
@DeadMG apparently about a month ago he was here
 
@DeadMG I think you should check the thread of replies.
 
@DomagojPandža we're missing you. Are you on extended leave? Has disaster struck? How are you?
 
I didn't shoot him. I swear.
I don't know why I felt I should make that clear.
 
@thecoshman That hasn't really changed much since last time we checked, you know
@R.MartinhoFernandes You should. Always use clear shots
 
12:03 PM
@LuchianGrigore Yes, unions are classes. And yes, as such, they can have member functions.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You 'swear' people to death?
 
He has been on SO itself: seen Aug 20 at 17:02
 
@LucDanton virtual ;)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wonder why anyone would have suspected you of shooting him...? But now I'm suspicious
 
@LuchianGrigore Sure, but why bring that up?
 
12:03 PM
@LucDanton Ew. I think that surpasses Duffy's Device in evility
 
@LucDanton because they're not classes.
 
@LuchianGrigore They are.
 
@ApprenticeHacker The solution to everything
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes All they said was "Yay constexpr"
didn't see any mention of Haskell
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes class-type != class
in my book at least
 
12:04 PM
@DeadMG ?! why do you mention it, then
 
@DeadMG Someone said you could do "anything" in a Turing-complete language. Then I mentioned the exception. And sehe said that exception applies to Haskell as well.
 
oh
 
@sehe and?
 
@LuchianGrigore Erm, check §9p5 and also check how §9.5 Unions is a section of §9 Classes.
 
Found it
 
12:07 PM
Scooter makes for a bit of a change to metal :P
 
I was checking in the meantime
:)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's the company which placed my in my current position.
 
I learned something today :) yay!
 
@kbok I'm not sure what to think of that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The job is the only thing that matters actually
 
12:10 PM
@kbok what's your current position?
 
@LuchianGrigore C++ dev in a finance company
 
@LuchianGrigore WTF expert? ;)
VP of WTF.
 
Hi folks
 
hi
 
I was at a Vaadin/Java conference yesterday evening.
I no longer wonder why I hate Java so much.
 
12:13 PM
Vaa... what?
@ereOn What happened?
 
Vaadin
It is supposed to be the next big thing in Java Web programming.
 
Alaadin?
 
Ah, framework thingy.
 
It took 55 minutes to the guy to write a dumb authentication form
 
@ereOn Lemme guess, it's a cesspool of patterns.
 
12:13 PM
with one login field, one password field and a button.
Everybody seemed amazed.
 
@ereOn It has singletons, doesn't it?
 
Webmoney sucker punched me again, now that I've uploaded the some ID (which is still form of Identity), they're still persistently asking for passport Oo . Seems like they've already swallowed my money :(
 
@ApprenticeHacker: Yep ! Lot of them actually.
I honestly went there because I thought "what harm can it done ? at least I may learn new things or other ways of thinking"
 
You have learned to stay away from it!
 
Button button = new Button(); Layout layout = new Layout(); layout.addComponent(button); layout.setMargin(); Root.getInstance().addLayout(layout);
 
Yes, it is.
 
Congratulations : you just wrote 6 lines of code to output... an <input> field.
 
@ereOn Ugh. Why do people insist on building UIs with imperative code :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: In 2012... yeah I really don't get it.
 
@ereOn eww...
 
12:17 PM
And the funniest thing of all
Some guy asked whether every action on the web page would result in a request to be made to the server.
And whether there was a dedicated instance of "i don't remember what" to handle every client.
 
Sounds like a good question.
 
Yep it is :
the answer, however was less good :
 
tell the answer dammit!
 
"Yeah, but it remains highly scalable. Someone made a benchmark when he could have 11 000 clients on a an amazon cloud"
"But... 11 000 is not that much is it ?"
"Have you ever written anything that had more than 100 clients ? I guess not !"
The last sentence was the final answer.
 
12:20 PM
lol, highly scalable... for small scales!
 
He could as well have said "Shut up noobie. You will never write anything as complicated as I do"
 
@ereOn No I haven't... in Java.
 
The "presentator" (not sure of the term) introduced himself saying he was :
 
"speaker"?
 
yep thanks
"I'm an Architect, not a developer. Some people are developers, I'm an Architect, please note the difference"
What is it with those Java guys that they need "smart" titles to feel better ?
 
12:22 PM
user image
5
 
@ereOn Because they're not smart.
 
I wanted to reply : "Architect, developer, it doesn't really matter : at the end of day you are just someone writing Java :s"
 
And terrible Java at that.
 
Yep.
 
If you don't want to call yourself a programmer, you're not a programmer. Get out of my occupation.
 
12:23 PM
Anyway, I left after 1 hour.
 
You didn't wait for the ending?
 
(when everybody applauded because the login form was just first rendered)
 
I was just next to the movies, and a friend of mine said to me "If we leave now, we can still see Killer Joe"
 
I'm an ass-hole, not a programmer. Some people are programmers, I am an ass-hole. Please not the difference.
 
12:25 PM
Which sounded like a good alternative to this Java mess.
@ApprenticeHacker Haha
 
Everything is a good alternative to Java.
3
 
@CatPlusPlus PHP?
 
@CatPlusPlus except PHP and more Java
 
Well, I would still rather write PHP.
The language is terrible but at least it doesn't feel like your joining a sect.
 
I would avoid both.
 
12:27 PM
An IndexSet is a piece-wise bitvector. At the top level, we have an array of pointers to bitvector chunks called BitBlocks. Each BitBlock has a fixed size and is allocated from a shared free list.
 
Yeah, obviously
Only if you had to choose between the two.
 
Isn't this exactly a std::deque<bool> ?
 
Sounds like it (but with a custom allocator).
 
I also like GrowableArray
hmm I wonder what that could be
I don't understand why they aren't using the stl
 
I would say it might have something to do with an array.
And it can probably grow.
But I'm really not sure about that.
 
12:29 PM
@ereOn Could it be a std::vector?
 
@ManofOneWay: Sounds too obvious.
It must be a int.
 
Jokes aside, where do you get that from ?
 
The HotSpot VM
 
Oh right, I remember
Where I work, std::string were replaced with a custom String class
which inherits from std::string
The guy that did that, was in love with Qt strings
And decided to recreate them based on std::string.
 
12:32 PM
ouch
 
Unfortunately, since he used public inheritance and didn't cared about the others developers, we now have to use an excellent candidate for slicing.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sounds like the appropriate medication for java devs
 
@ereOn He added data members?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: Yep.
Because this horrible String class handles encoding and stuff
 
@ManofOneWay You haven't seen the amazing PaulaBean yet
 
12:34 PM
It holds members to cache conversion results.
 
@sehe The what? =)
 
His point is that even if slicing occurs, its fine because we just loose the cache members which aren't used by std::string anyway.
I cried.
 
@sehe Amazing? An understatement. It's simply brillant.
 
Things I hate that we (C++ as a community) have unleashed upon ourselves: gratuitous use of enable_if when it's totally unnecessary, and gratuitous use of shared_ptr and smart pointers in general.
3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Start using Requires!
 
12:37 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes: Agreed. I see the latter for too often.
 
Or maybe you mean std::enble_if with class templates or the like.
 
@LucDanton I'm referring to other users overusing those features.
"Function template doesn't work for all types => enable_if" is a stupid cargo cult mentality.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Are there people who really use shared_ptr (and relatives) all over the place?
 
@Insilico: Yep. Very often actually.
 
12:39 PM
Hello
 
As useful shared_ptr is I don't actually use it all that much
 
Constraints on a conversion operator are very, very much reasonable however.
 
Not every memory management problem requires a multiple-ownership strategy, in my experience.
 
@Insilico I'm judging only from what I see on SO.
 
@LucDanton Sure, but I would question the existence of a conversion operator in the first place.
 
12:41 PM
@LucDanton If the constraints are already imposed in the body?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes. It matters for e.g. std::is_constructible and std::is_convertible, and in turn all traits that depend on those.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes @sehe That can not be true =D
 
You don't want an is_callable test pass because some parameter has an unconstrained universal conversion to or from some such when you could have some nice SFINAE.
 
Oh, that.
That actually applies for all functions.
 
Also that's why I've discontinued EnableIfUnrelated (well, I think I did). There's usually a better constraint to be expressed.
 
12:44 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm referring to your last message, the brilliant Paula Bean story
 
Unconstrained conversions is one of the flaws of std::function, too.
Exercise for the curious: implement a function such that function<R(C&, Args...)> f = &C::foo; is valid iff foo is a member function with signature R(Args...). Bonus: add support for pointers. More bonus: add support for smart pointers.
Totally unrelated though.
 
// Map dense integer indices to Blocks. Uses classic doubling-array trick.
Could anyone tell me what the classic trick is?
 
@ManofOneWay top hat and monocle?
 
decltype only accepts expressions, not types, right?
 
@ManofOneWay The classic trick is diamond poptarts and fishy wintercoats. Shh.. don't tell anyone!
 
12:52 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
Touche
 
oops
 
@sehe Toosh
 
@thecoshman Hey, weren't you diacritical mark-unaware not so long ago?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but if you think about it, everything is a shared-pointer really
@LucDanton I do like cake
 
I'm getting intermittent pings from messages that are not even being edited. This is new.
 
@LucDanton Check the history? Probably not visibly being edited?
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: make the copy constructor disappear in a sudden and violent manner [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [pinky]
 
@CatPlusPlus is that describing the = delete modifier?
 
@LucDanton Refresh?
That's what I do when chat starts acting like a child.
 
1:03 PM
@sehe it's from an answer from yesterday.
 
@sehe It's a reference to a bad answer from yesterday.
 
You wouldn't refresh a child.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Done. Doesn't seem to help. But it's not that frequent tbh.
 
@CatPlusPlus I would!
@sehe Someone recommended every class should have a copy constructor, and when you don't want copies, make that constructor EXPLODE.
 
@sehe I don't know, I'm just modifying the topic.
 
1:06 PM
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: I don't know, I'm just modifying the topic. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [pinky]
 
I'm so tired.
 
What is this JSONP thingy? Isn't it basically a "run arbitrary JavaScript through AJAX" security nightmare?
 
JSON with callback. You create a script element dynamically from a remote URL.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ...?
 
Pinky and the Brain is an American animated television series. It was the first animated television series to be presented in Dolby Surround. The characters Pinky and the Brain first appeared in 1993 as a recurring segment on the show Animaniacs. From 1995 to 1998, Pinky and the Brain were spun off into their own show on The WB Television Network, Steven Spielberg Presents Pinky and the Brain, with 65 episodes produced by Steven Spielberg and Warner Bros. Animation. Later, they appeared in the unsuccessful series, Steven Spielberg Presents Pinky, Elmyra & the Brain. Pinky and Brain are ...
 
1:14 PM
So your domain is example.com and you dynamically create <script src="http://foobar.org/baz.js?callback=mycallback"></script>, which does mycallback({ some: 'json' }).
 
Leftover from previous topics.
But I like Pinky, so I'm leaving it :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Gratuitous use of shared_ptr and SFINAE I'll give you, but why smart pointers in general? They seem to be the optimum solution to the problem they were intended to solve.
 
@DeadMG I mean instead of good ole values.
 
Any OpenGL master here?
I just added a new .fx file into my project, and I receive the following error:
> file.fx(13,19-43): error X3041: unsupported compiler target 'arbvp1'

The line that gives the error:
`VertexProgram = compile arbvp1 VertexSh();`
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah oksies.
 
1:17 PM
Obviously, I'm in favour of using smart pointers when you are facing the problem they solve :P
 
Same for std::function!
 
@Shiki That doesn't look like OpenGL at all.
 
yeah, it's Nvidia CG... but with OpenGL
 
@Shiki Cg is just the fancy name for HLSL
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's not.
 
1:20 PM
Here is how I *would* load the file:
myCgEffect = cgCreateEffectFromFile(myCgContext, "simplest.fx", NULL);
 
Did you try posting a question on stackoverflow.com?
 
Not yet, I thought it's too simple to make it a question
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh well wiki link #1 "It is the same as the Nvidia Cg shading language, and it was developed alongside it" wiki link #2 "It is very similar to Microsoft's HLSL."
 
No question is too simple to justify using Stack Overflow
I have asked many simple questions there
 
It's said that "arbvp1" is the simplest OpenGL shader. I've got an ATI 3650 with AMD's legacy 12.6 driver. It should support the simplest shaders then..right?
 
1:21 PM
@Shiki ATI sucks, so I won't be so sure
 
@BartekBanachewicz The point is it's different. They may share the same functionality, but they're not interchangeable.
 
one more reason to stick to GLSL
 
@BartekBanachewicz - True. Trust me... I know that very, very well. Ever since I bought this crap, I've been having issues. With the card itself, the driver... everything is terrible.
 
@Shiki So, if it is so simple, why ask it here?
 
Because it's a chat, and if someone is familiar with either OpenGL and/or Cg, will know the answer.
 
1:23 PM
@Shiki It's unrelated to OpenGL. I'd say using Nvidia toolkit on ATI card isn't wise
 
Yes, because finding someone familiar with that in 30 people is more likely than finding someone familiar with that in thousands upon thousands of people.
2
 
Yeah people, you should gtfo if you want help.
Anyway, found an actually helpful link: http://www.gamedev.net/topic/321648-cg-shaders-from-nvidia-on-ati/
 
myvec.erase(myvec.begin(), myvec.begin() + N);

throws segmentation error :-/ , oh and N + begin < end
 
@Shiki No, you should not "gtfo". What you should do, if you want to solve your problem, is either (1) try to find the information you need, or (2) ask somewhere where you're likely to get answers
 
@Abhishek why would you EVER do that?
 
1:27 PM
just erase n elements and shift everything ahead
 
What you should not do is go to a small, random group of 30 people, ask them, and then get angry when they tell you that you probably would have better luck asking elsewhere
 
What the heck would the URL Path be in: http://localhost:4000 ?
isn't that just the entire string?
 
@TonyTheLion eh ?
 
You have absolutely no fucking reason to act butthurt when people tell you "if you have a question, try asking it on SO". They are trying to help you. If you can't cope with that, grow up, quit programming, and become a carpenter or plumber instead
 
@Abhishek the question above it.
 
1:28 PM
can't understand it :-/
 
I'm actually not sure what URL Path is really supposed to be?
 
@jalf Hey I resent that statement! I'm a software engineer and I fucking used to be a carpenter! :-)
 
@TonyTheLion protocol://hostname:port/path/subpath/morepath?query=parameter&more
 
^
 
@Chimera I didn't say carpentry was a bad thing though
Just that it saves you from having to ask questions about programming
Jul 26 at 21:11, by jalf
If you want reliable, high quality answers quickly, use SO. If you want to gamble and maybe get a useful answer, maybe get a good answer, and maybe waste your time, feel free to ask questions here :)
 
1:29 PM
@sehe so the path comes after the URL bit
 
Stack overflow handling is really stupid in VS
 
@BartekBanachewicz is it bad to do ?
 
do you have a reference on that?
 
@jalf No worries, just screwing around. But I really was a carpenter at one time.
 
@TonyTheLion The URL would be the whole shebang. After it comes nuttin'
 
1:30 PM
She bang, she bang, oh baby she bang.
 
@TonyTheLion The path would be /path/subpath/morepath
 
It says you have a stack overflow, and when you look at the call stack, it only displays a limited range, so you can't find any relevant information
 
@Abhishek when you're erasing from a front of the vector, it should make you suspicuos
 
@Chimera Close to being ignored
 
i am trying to create a sampleBank
 
1:31 PM
@sehe ah I see
 
to store samples after down/upsampling , as this happens frame by frame
 
@sehe Booooooo! Party pooper...
 
@Chimera :) Thank god it's Friday
 
i can just use first 1152 samples and then remove them from vector
 
Amen to that!
 
1:31 PM
erase seems good :-|
 
@Abhishek Use a deque. But erase would seem fine
 
Explode the fucking vector and use a real language like LISP!
 
Man. You're disruptive today.
Take the pills :)
 
@sehe Nah! That's crazy talk. :-0 And I did take my meds... probably just haven't kicked in yet.
It's early morning for me, so I'm not fully awake yet.
 
@sehe how do i get reference to data pointer in deque ?
nvm guessed it i just use the functions provided
 
1:34 PM
@Abhishek Demo. There is nothing obviously wrong from what little you've told us.
 
@Abhishek Can I have some sampleMoney?
 
.operator LPCTSTR() really?? Why would someone bother writing .operator explicitly?
 
why is it, when I see a Genetic Algorithm for machine learning, I always have to push it
 
@TonyTheLion Perhaps multiple ambiguous conversion operators
 
I don't know
 
1:35 PM
@thecoshman Won't work, machines don't have genomes.
 
@Chimera ¬_¬
 
Well, humans don't have genomes either. They have just the one.
 
Nor recombinant DNA
 
@LucDanton Trust me, I know, I went to the University of Cracker Jacks.
 
1:37 PM
@LuchianGrigore lolz
 
@LucDanton You could argue that each human has their own genome, and we simply happen to share the overwhelming majority of it.
 
@DeadMG Seen many mutants today?
 
@DeadMG I'd agree with that
 
@LucDanton Everybody I saw.
 
@LucDanton to a point, we are all mutants, else we would all look the same
 
1:39 PM
@thecoshman No we're not, and no we would not.
 
How are you feeling @DeadMG? Still sick?
 
@Chimera yep
 
cannot convert `boost::multi_index::detail::bidir_node_iterator<Node>` to `boost::multi_index::detail::bidir_node_iterator<Node>`
Way to go, Boost -.-
 
re earlier discussion, there is a relatively clear distinction between coders and real programmers. coders are associative, unthinking: they're like simple rule based systems. real programmers are able to tackle new problems
 
1:39 PM
But come to think of it I would like to know the rate of mutants among the general population, for the broadest meaning of 'mutant'.
 
@LucDanton Uh, all of us.
 
i think the percentage is somewhat like 98% coders, 2% real programmers
 
how do you think forensic DNA testing works? it's because we all have genetic mutations.
 
@DeadMG No.
 
most of them aren't significant, granted, but they are still mutations
 
1:40 PM
@LucDanton if we never mutated, we would never have diverged away from that initial living organism. it is through mutation that evolution can happen
 
@thecoshman This.
 
Two random humans have a high chance of sharing the same genes, all of them. True or false?
 
it crashes in last line
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Hmm, I would think a higher percentage are real programmers. Those who can learn and create something they have no prior knowledge about.
 
@LucDanton false
 
1:41 PM
@LucDanton Definitely false.
 
Your answer will be highly correlated as to whether you know the distinction between gene and allele.
 
@LucDanton Don't we all have the same "genes"? Just different material in them?
 
the distinction is irrelevant to this discussion
 
of course, if you want to start talking 'people who have at least one gene that is significantly different from what you would normally expect when looking at human DNA' then I would still say nearly ever one
 
@Chimera Everything PHP, Java, CSS, HTML belongs under coders. That covers 98%. Programmers do sensible things, like C++, oh wait...
 
1:42 PM
the probability of two humans sharing the same DNA is one in trillions, at least.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Because your code sucks.
 
else forensic DNA testing would never work
 
@DeadMG Is that what I asked though?
 
@LucDanton If you didn't ask that then I don't know what you asked and have no idea why you asked it, nor do I really care about the answer, as it seems to be part of a totally different conversation.
the only thing any of us have ever said is that all humans have DNA variations
 
@TonyTheLion Irony: if only he had written explicit operator LPCTSTR() :(
 
1:43 PM
genes, alleles, whatever, implementation details
 
is there a way to install office 2010 so that it doesn't start to mess up windows explorer context menus with "synchronization" shit?
 
@sehe what difference does that make?
 
@Chimera and you can't push individual algorithms
 
that it's explicitly explicit
 
@TonyTheLion makes it not implicit :)
 
1:44 PM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf You should be able to remove the shell extensions from control panel.
 
@sehe right.
 
 
any way, I shall be heading of very soon (I hope) to pick me up Dark Vengeance and have a very nerdy weekend :D
 
Don't post B^U.
:<
 
@thecoshman Ahem. Is that a genetic algorithm?
 
1:48 PM
@CatPlusPlus B^U ?
 
@sehe sure, why not
 
@thecoshman Because you're bored?
 
@CatPlusPlus hey, don't post silly fucking acronyms. what's that?
 
It's not an acronym.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, the Buckley face.
 
1:52 PM
How can I make a small comment at the end of an answer?
 
@LuchianGrigore By commenting?
 
No, I mean like a disclaimer
meh, nevermind
 
By making a disclaimer?
 
@LuchianGrigore ---\nDisclamer: foobar
 
:-/ i think i should give up this whole method of mantaining a sample bank
 
1:55 PM
lol
` 4chan hopped on it and made tons, tons, and tons of parodies and "fan art" ` Huh, yeah, don't click the link
 
4chan is awesome.
 
@kbok what link?
 

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