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11:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus FFI isn't really good enough.
 
C interop in C++ is FFI. Only badly integrated with the rest of the language.
 
yes
 
And it is good enough, but whatever.
 
but raw pointers have many other uses.
you can't implement a memory arena or an object pool if you can't subdivide your own memory
 
I don't do that even in C++.
 
11:02 PM
fortunate for you
 
Because it's one of those boring things the GC should be doing.
 
but no GC can ever achieve the same result.
 
Like I'd ever care.
 
you sure would if your program couldn't execute fast enough to meet your requirements without custom memory handling
 
I'll get back to you if I ever do.
 
Ell
11:05 PM
c++ is more fun when you make everything only as expensive as necessary
 
FSVO fun.
 
Ell
I just want a language with value semantics and pointers
I can do okay in a language like ruby, but then I try and write a graph class and get all confused, does it copy, doesn't it? What if I do this method on that? What happens when I assign this to that?
 
That's unrelated to the language.
 
Ell
I know the answer is it never copies but I can't deal with it o.O
@R.MartinhoFernandes why? O.O
I would just like to see the &'s is all :D
 
@Ell It's merely your fault.
 
Ell
11:08 PM
Ahh right okay :P
 
Value semantics are overrated.
 
@CatPlusPlus that seems odd coming from someone promoting Haskell
 
Things should be immutable. Then you don't have to copy them so much.
 
things should be immutable, but often, they're not.
 
Okay, that didn't make much sense, I admit.
But that's tiredness, mostly.
 
11:10 PM
In computer science, having value semantics (also value-type semantics or copy-by-value semantics) means for an object that only its value counts, not its identity. If the concept is fully applied, value semantics implies immutability of the object. The concepts that are used to explain this concept are extensionality, definiteness, substitutivity of identity, unfoldability, and referential transparency. References
 
@MooingDuck It doesn't say immutability implies value semantics (which it doesn't).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes no, I read between Cat's lines, predicting he was going to promote immutability over value semantics
 
Also, really? You trust this wiki page?
 
Oh. Two paragraphs, lol.
 
That links to the same place 4 times?
Oh, wait, only 3.
 
11:11 PM
@CatPlusPlus It's a better source than the back of my head and a bunch of people in a chat room.
 
And to some mailing list.
 
@MooingDuck Not really.
 
Yeah, that's a really poor wikipedia article. I'm actually surprised it doesn't have the stub template.
 
Look what it looked like for about a year: en.wikipedia.org/w/…
 
I'm pretty sure that we already know what value semantics are.
 
11:13 PM
Some quality there fo sure.
Ok, half a year.
Point is, nobody seems to know this page exists.
 
I never said it was a quality article, merely a source. Not the best source, but better than no source.
 
Shitty source is not a source.
TBH it looks more like an ad for that velocityreviews thing.
Just cleverly disguised.
 
@CatPlusPlus heh
 
Oh wait.
 
@MooingDuck We don't need a reference for things we agree on.
 
11:15 PM
It links to a forum.
 
Hey all, any C++ and JAVA devs here?
 
Ahahaha
 
@loosebruce in the C++ lounge?
 
@loosebruce No, we all do Smalltalk here.
And sometimes INTERCAL.
 
@loosebruce precog note: we don't answer your questions here
 
11:15 PM
Ah, INTERCAL. Good times.
 
was just looking for some insight
starting new dev job , however the are going to train me in JAVA although I learned C++ :(
 
Ell
@loosebruce go on
 
So?
If you expected to learn one language and be done with it forever, you're in the wrong field.
 
was wondering if anyone was in the same situation as me
 
Besides, Java is 1000 times simpler than C++.
Just about everyone who ever worked as a programmer.
 
11:17 PM
hmm, I have code I made, but when I test, wierd things happen. I believe my environment/IDEs are bugged, and not my code, but I can't prove it. I'm trying to figure out if I should check it in so someone else can test, and then revert it. I'm already on day 10 of this 3 day project.
@loosebruce I am
 
Anyone hiring on a language basis is a bad employer.
You're expected to learn the tools needed for the project.
I got assigned to iOS despite never before touching iOS or Obj-C in any serious capacity.
 
@CatPlusPlus Wait, are you saying that giving more consideration to candidates with existing knowledge is bad?
 
I have no experience , I am a grad. All I have is the tools they gave me at university and what I do extra curricular. I have no experience of the office politics or what its going to be like jumping into a in house dev team. Im unsure whether I should just erase all what I was taught at uni and just learn what they teach me at the company , if they are going to do things differently
 
Argh, I don't know how to word that thought better.
 
@loosebruce Things could be worse.
 
11:22 PM
Someone who learns and adapts > someone who knows much about one thing, maybe, I guess?
It's laaaaate.
 
@CatPlusPlus Ah, ok. That sounds better.
 
Or: don't hire Java programmers, hire programmers who know Java.
That sort of thing.
 
Well you guys are experienced, so I am getting advice from you who have been in the corporate world
Thank you
 
actually
the definition of my problem is that I have little experience of work
 
Well, small companies and corporate world aren't exactly the same thing.
And you're definitely better off in small companies when just starting out.
They're more chill.
And you won't be dealing with soulless HR machine that processes 1000 people a day.
That's always a plus.
I'm probably rambling.
Am I rambling?
 
11:25 PM
What is the office politics of a dev team? I was thinking of just keeping my head down and coding and staying out of everything else
 
Ask questions.
 
@loosebruce Don't do that. Take part.
 
@loosebruce office politics of devs revolves mostly around throwing blame for bugs around, and assignments that nobody wants.
(I assume, we don't have the first much at my job)
 
So theres none of that stab you in the back stuff?
 
Politics are for politicians and other dumb people.
Unless you work in a very shitty team, no.
And if you do, just get out of there, don't waste your life on that crap.
 
11:28 PM
The salary is phenomenal though, and they pay for all these courses and other benefits
Although for what price?
My soul?
 
@loosebruce not really no
 
I'd sell my soul. But I wouldn't write PHP for money. It's all about keeping healthy values.
 
@CatPlusPlus Can I have it?
 
How much do you pay?
Now I wonder if you can buy a soul on eBay.
 
You can buy dehydrated water...
and canned farts...
 
11:30 PM
Souls are more useful.
 
Oh hey, you can. It's under Collectibles.
 
@CatPlusPlus it's against the EULA.
 
Internet never disappoints.
 
@CatPlusPlus I need a replacement.
 
11:32 PM
@CatPlusPlus They get in the news every once in a while for removing soul bidding
 
Serious business.
 
@MooingDuck WTF.
 
You can learn Java in an hour or so.
It's really primitive.
 
Which is why I am worried
 
11:34 PM
I learned it while doing first Java assignment in uni. And I didn't even try.
 
It might make me lazy, complacent..... tainted
 
You should learn Haskell.
 
I think you're worrying too much. If don't really want the job, don't take it.
 
is it just me, or am I not able to connect to steam?
 
Well, are you?
 
11:35 PM
@Mysticial I'm still connected.
 
How should we know if you're able to connect to Steam.
 
nvm, I just reconnected.
 
We're not you.
 
I got disconnected from TF2 for a few min.
 
Oooh, I've got a new item.
 
11:36 PM
Oooh, I've got a new item, too.
WTF.
Is this a fucking joke?
75% off on Portal 2? Seriously?
 
app_620_note_9
 
Best Youtube Handle Ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWgXLj1IoEM
And some nice guitar playing
 
I buy the game and the next day it gets 75% off. And three months later they give me a 75% off coupon?
Fuck you Valve.
 
Apparently it's not on sale enough.
I preordered. :<
 
@CatPlusPlus You too?
 
11:38 PM
Yeah.
 
So, anyone wants to trade a 75% off Portal 2 coupon for... dunno, a TF2 hat? I don't play TF2, but it sure would be nicer.
 
I still have a gift copy of Portal, too.
Fuck knows what I'm supposed to do with it.
Everyone and their dog have this game.
 
Well thankyou for talking to me about it, got a month before I start so going to go prepare :)
Good night / morning
 
I'm sad, nobody is posting in my thread.
 
@CatPlusPlus What thread?
 
@loosebruce Have fun.
 
In fact, never stop having fun.
 
What do you guys think about this:
0
A: Accessing inactive union member - undefined?

ecatmurThe confusion is that C explicitly permits type-punning through a union, whereas C++ (c++11) has no such permission. c11 6.5.2.3 Structure and union members 95) If the member used to read the contents of a union object is not the same as the member last used to store a value in th...

 
Dammit, now I won't rest until I get rid of this damn coupon.
 
11:46 PM
It's silly. Seems everyone on Steam was given this thing.
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus I don't have it!
 
Tell me your Steam handle.
I WANT TO GET RID OF THIS THING.
 
Valve control center:
[PORTAL 2 -75% SALE]
[PORTAL 2 -75% COUPONS FOR EVERYONE]
Someone just misclicked.
 
lol
It's a plan to drive me insane. I know it. dons tinfoil hat
@CatPlusPlus Maybe that was the event that got Mysticial kicked out for a moment. The servers processing coupons for everyone.
 
Ell
errm one sec
I'll get it
 
11:49 PM
lol
 
mine is f_margaine if you want :<
 
Ell
nooo
pottsguy
 
You seriously fighting over Portal 2 coupons?
You probably got it, too.
Besides, it'll be on sale within the next 2 months.
 
@CatPlusPlus I think they're just offering to help Martinho
 
^this
I don't really care
 
11:51 PM
So, how do I trade/gift this thing?
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes I share this account with my bro btw :) just for info
 
@Ell OMG EULA VIOLATION
 
Ell
Shhhh!
 
gah! Netbeans! Please tell me where the error is?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There is a button somewhere.
 
11:52 PM
this file is red, so I know it has an error of some sort. But netbeans is busy loading something or other, so it won't tell me where in the file.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, found it.
It's gone!
I'm free!
 
Ell
Thank you very much :D
 
Now tell me where was it, because I forgot.
 
@CatPlusPlus In the chat window, the big down arrow button -> invite to trade.
 
Oh, hm. I thought it was somewhere outside the chat, too.
 
11:56 PM
I kinda makes sense to be there. It's more likely that you will want to chat about the trade first.
 
one complaint with visual studio: if you tell it to compiling a lot of projects, it takes a long time before you can tell it to cancel a build. About 30 seconds or so.
 
It probably doesn't want to kill the already-running compiler processes.
 
@CatPlusPlus I can't think of a way for that to make sense.
 
It's Visual Studio.
 

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