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21:00
@RadekSlupik Yeah, if that showed up in my house... I doubt even my 30 inch rubber-band hunting rifle can kill it.
omg
where am i gonna sleep
this night's gonna be long
@Cicada neighbor's house
> The biggest tarantulas can kill animals as large as lizards, mice, birds and small snakes.
@Cicada just sleep in your bed. You will eventually kill it while asleep.
@RadekSlupik Which means they can definitely kill @Cicadas.
By rolling over it, or eating it.
21:03
@RadekSlupik "Only some two hundred species in twenty genera (out of over 40,000 known species) are known to have serious, potentially lethal bites...several spiders are known to have venom that can be fatal to humans in the amounts that a spider will typically inject when biting... four genera (Phoneutria, Atrax, Latrodectus, and Loxosceles) are known to have killed humans... atracotoxin, the substance in funnel-web venom which is deadly to humans" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_bite
I kill spiders with myself. I suck them up. I’m tha vacuum cleaner.
I kill them with my mind.
You’re a dog, you sniff their asses.
unlikely
I have a book about HTML 5, CSS 3, JavaScript, <canvas>, PHP and ASP.NET + C#. I need it for school.
This is going to be so fucking boring and easy.
21:06
lol
Internet & World Wide Web How to Program
Looks like the average SO question title, random words without any punctuation.
In fact, it only teaches World Wide Web How to Program.
Internet is much larger and complexer.
I’m doubt I will not stop going to school after a month or one and a half.
We also need a book about Java, usability and one about requirements.
They call it “informatics” but I call it “fuck up four precious years of your life”.
YES
KILLED IT
:(
Why would you do that?
that motherfucker was camping in the blankets
You are a bad person, @Cicada. You should feel bad for killing such a benevolent animal.
@Cicada mothfucker?
I already see it happening. I’m the only programmer in the team and I will do all the work. Ha! I’ll use version control and those fuckers will see the logs.
I think spiders are cool.
They are.
They eat bugs and don't afraid of anything.
And so are hexapods.
They eat bugs? 3:
:(
21:14
Some eat rats, I think.
@EtiennedeMartel some eat birds
if they eat bugs, we need them rule SO
@MooingDuck I'm precognitive.
@EtiennedeMartel this was on 4chan two hours ago, I swear
21:15
Cicada on 4chan??
anyway back on topic: ranting about how impossible it is to make a good looking cross-platform UI
lol :p
@Cicada Use teh HTML.
Web apps rule.
Well yes but for a desktop app
Also the Cat said HTML sucks but well.
@Cicada I'm bothered by the wall color in that picture. Do people really paint rooms that color? That's frightening :(
Create a command-line interface. Allways looks good and is cross-platform.
Oh desktop app.
@Cicada The Cat says that everything sucks except WikiDot, Haskell and Python.
2
21:16
executable on flash tech
@MooingDuck my webcam sucks
its cross platform
@Cicada are the walls actually yellow?
no they're more like, peach.
@Cicada Just make one UI for each platform. Problem solved.
21:17
@Cicada huh. Did you tweak the colors on the pic? They really don't look peach at all
@MooingDuck Lighting.
Javascript is weird. — Robert Harvey 23 secs ago
@MooingDuck no, my webcam sucks i tell you :(
you can see that my arm is also yellowish
but i'm white as fuck
@Cicada The Cat is our resident hater.
> In computer programming, undefined behavior is a feature of some programming languages—most famously C.
(Emphasis mine)
21:21
@KianMayne it is, lets the compiler take shortcuts
I think feature is the wrong word though
@user1178729 Hi!
@Cicada smack it, it's gonna stop sucking
@KianMayne it's the point of the sentance
21:21
*provided it also applies to webcams
May I first ask you how to change my ugly name?
@user1178729 go to your profile and hit the "edit" button?
@user1178729 Is it really that difficult to figure out?
What? Are you saying undefined behaviour is intentional?
oh, is it the same than the stackoverflow normal website?
@KianMayne absolutely, that's what it says. It's a good thing
@user1178729 yes
Well yes UB is intentional.
@user1178729 You should ask your parents before doing it, they might've had a reason to give you an ugly name
21:23
@KianMayne undefined behavior is an excellent thing in the Spec. Should not be in a program.
Having UB in your code is stupid and languages that want to avoid it at all costs just to avoid it are stupid.
@MooingDuck I did not know that, I'm reading this: blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer-should-know.html
@MooingDuck Oxford American Thesaurus: feature - characteristic , attribute , quality , property , trait , hallmark..
I know quite a bit of Java, but I want to expand my knowledges into other languages, and I figured C++ was a pretty good option. Can anyone give me any tutorials or videos I could watch to learn taking into consideration I already know Java?
21:24
videos? :))
@user1178729 The fact that you already know Java is worth precisely jack shit in learning C++.
@DesmondHume with the implication that it's a positive thing, yes
@MooingDuck so it's not like software feature thing..
Bucky's video tutorials!
@DesmondHume it is a characteristic/quality/property of the language. Though the sentence used it in the colloquial form, implying that it is deliberate and a good thing, which is also true.
21:25
They seem good, but I though Dev-c++ was the most used compiler and not codeblocks
@user1178729 What seems good?
@user1178729 Dev-C++ is used by basically nobody.
and code::blocks is not a compiler.
an IDE ok
@user1178729 what? MSVC is the most used compiler. GCC is second. I think clang is third. Nobody uses devC++ or codeblocks
@user1178729 Dev-C++ is incredibly old.
21:26
Oh lol somebody says that Dev-C++ is a compiler. Time to unplonk the guy so I can have a good laugh.
if I had to guess, I'd put Visual Studio as #1, followed by GCC, then Clang.
And I got no numbers to back this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Visual Studio was the most commonly used C++ IDE.
The most commonly used C++ IDE is Vim.
why does he use codeblocks?
@DeadMG VS is not a compiler.
21:26
eh
DevC++ is a compiler and Linex is a computer
it's a hell of a lot closer than Code::Blocks
VS is an IDE. MSVC (or VC++ is you prefer) is the compiler.
@Cicada and Lunix is an illegal hacker operating system.
then what IDE do you recommend?
21:27
@user1178729 Definitely Emacs.
Butterflies.
user457812
Butts.
(Ctrl+M, Ctrl+Butterfly in emacs)
He asked for an IDE, not an OS.
3
21:28
lol
definately linesc
user457812
Real answer: Sublime Text 2.
If you don’t like emacs, use TextMate. And otherwise anything not Vim is fine.
@nil Tails.
user457812
21:28
Vim is awesome.
@user1178729 Sublime Text is nice
@nil Awesome editor it is. I use it at work.
is emacs good for starting?
So is notepad++
@nil s/awesome/terrible
21:29
@KianMayne: Word.
@user1178729 no
vim is good if you're working on a remote server or something
@user1178729 yes
user457812
s/Radek Slupik/stupid and ugly person/
whatever you're comfortable with is fine for starting.
21:29
Emacs is good for starting, as per its learning curve.
but is there an IDE like eclipse for c++?
user457812
You are stupid and ugly, ergo your opinion is invalid.
@Zeta Good plan
@user1178729 Yes, Eclipse
user457812
21:29
You like Eclipse? The hell is wrong with you?
@user1178729 Yes, Netbeans
@nil Says somebody who likes Vim.
user457812
Quiet, you are stupid and ugly
Well, well.
Why so much hostility?
@Zeta: Nah, I didn't mean it like that. Wait, does someone seriously do use Microsoft Word in order to write actual code? Oh god. The mere thought burns like acid.
@nil Quiet, nil.
21:30
@Zeta Yeah, don't you?
You’re nothing.
user457812
@EtiennedeMartel I don't actually have an hostility towards Radek. Text editors is text editors.
@Zeta: pretty much anything you can image, someone somewhere does it using Word.
@Zeta Just for comment proofing maybe
21:31
@StephenCanon Sex?
I just save as a batchfile because I iz a h4x0rrrr
@DeadMG: that's a gimme.
Also, real programmers don’t use an IDE whatever the fuck they like.
Portability sucks.
@DeadMG Well you could do it like phone sex, and like send word documents to the other party
21:32
Indeed, just write for OS X only.
This thread is officially derailed. My work is done.
I dont find any reason for not using an IDE
user457812
Since when has phone sex been so complicated as to involve word documents?
@Cicada Use Java! (That was a joke)
What.
Java? No. Maybe when I'm senile.
Why do people here hate Java?
user457812
One time I used Java for two weeks. I've regretted it ever since. The guilt is just unbearable.
If you want portability, use C++, Haskell or Python.
@user1178729 because it sucks donkey cock.
Python needs installing a runtime right?
21:33
No.
@user1178729: what do you expect in a C++ forum?
@Cicada not if you compile it
I don't know, a lot of programmers know more that one language
@MooingDuck even if you don’t.
user457812
@user1178729 Java is broken in so many fundamental ways that it's actually a hate crime to not hate it.
21:34
You don’t need to install the interpreter.
@RadekSlupik pft
@user1178729 Because it wasn't really updated in 10 years.
I find it an easy language to start programming
> Alternatives to Java:
-C
-Go
-Limbo
-Scheme
-Smalltalk
-Erlang
-Chewing finely crushed glass.
user457812
I found C an easy language to start coding in, that doesn't mean I should still be using it.
21:34
I don't know, I've just done a few simple python scripts so far. Can you really make full blown apps with it, easy to deploy? (And cross platform please)
does notepad++ correct errors¿
It has a package manager.
user457812
Scheme is a hell of a language.
@user1178729 oh good please not notepad++.
Use Sublime Text 2 or emacs.
user457812
21:35
Or vim.
Java is not that bad, for x platform ui heavy applications
what0ps
what's the difference?
user457812
I am going to shadow Radek wherever he goes and insert vim into every suggestion for alternative text editors.
Well, Sublime Text 2 at least does code completion.
@JustinMeiners: so Java isn't bad, for applications that don't do anything?
21:36
oh
user457812
It does completion to an extent.
@user1178729 Really.
okay umm. so I can compile python to standaloneexecutablethatrequiresnothingelse.exe ?
Java's great
until you come to program in it
Just try a few and use the one you like the most.
user457812
21:36
If you've got SublimeClang installed, it'll work better, but otherwise it's just word completion
Does it have features like error detection as in eclipse?
@StephenCanon don't know what you mean by that
user457812
If you've got a plugin for it: yes.
user457812
Although it's a well-known fact that Eclipse's error detection is broken as hell.
what is it called?
21:37
If you want good, good error detection, use Xcode (or any other editor with clang support, if those exist).
yeah clang is great
so sublimeclang is ok?
user457812
SublimeClang gives you C/C++ error detection in Sublime.
I suggest TextMate, Sublime Text 2, or Emacs.
user457812
Or vim.
21:38
Or, in the very worst case, Vim.
in that order?
vim over emacs
@DeadMG Java is a great platform and an horrible language.
@user1178729 Yes.
Just try them.
user457812
I go Sublime, TextMate 2, TextMate, vim, nano, pico, then emacs.
21:38
We can’t tell which one you will like.
It’s completely subjective.
for windows?
Sublime Text 2 and emacs are for Windows.
user457812
Well, you're on Windows, so you're already boned in several special ways.
it says mac on the website
Seriously. Try some out. Find one that you like. Stop worrying about what a bunch of wackos on the internet think.
user457812
21:39
That said, Sublime, vim, and emacs all work on Windows.
TextMate is OS X only.
unix based all the way
@nil I love Sublime Text :)
UNIX is the only true family of OSes.
Yeah, linux is better, but I prefer Windows
21:39
linux is better but you prefer windows?
“X is better, but I prefer Y.”
user457812
The important thing is that you have a tool you're comfortable with.
@user1178729 complete failure to make sense.
Linus Torvalds: Java A Horrible Language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa55RKWZxxI
21:40
Also OS X is better than Linux.
I feel that Linux is good for servers
It is easier to use
but not so much with your average consumer
user457812
I am not getting into OS X vs. Linux stuff. >_>
if you prefer x to y, then by what standard would you say y is better than x?
21:40
I really don’t understand how people could ever prefer Windows for software fucking development.
And I'm running on a windows desinged computer, and I don't want to spend time to install OSX on it
@RadekSlupik Psh, fuck that bs.
user457812
They're both POSIX-compliant, that's about all that matters to me.
what's a "windows designed computer"?
@RadekSlupik Psh, fuck that bs.
21:41
Afaik, osx can not run on every computer
Windows doesn’t ship with A) a decent terminal emulator B) a decent shell C) Python, Ruby, Perl and all that stuff
@RadekSlupik mostly because the debugger is awesome
@RadekSlupik Because most Linux "software development tools" idea of usability is "Program it yourself".
user457812
PowerShell is sort of usable these days.
@RadekSlupik Because MSVC is the best compiler when it comes to performance?
user457812
21:41
Not great, but .. usable.
@RadekSlupik Don't need any of those three.
@RadekSlupik It's the most popular OS with the most potential users maybe?
@KianMayne Irrelevant. You won’t like Coca-Cola because most people drink it, either.
@RadekSlupik so.. you suggest I install OSX on my computer?
21:42
@user1178729 I don’t suggest anything.
Use whatever the fuck you like. I cannot tell you what you will like and nor will I.
@RadekSlupik No, but you'd manufacture Coca-Cola bottles for the money
user457812
I can. You like vim, you like Mac OS, you will go buy a Mac right now and feed Apple your wallet.
That analogy was poor
I mean, is OSX better for programming?
user457812
Yes.
21:43
@DesmondHume since when?
Linux is best for programming IMO.
@KianMayne lol prefering money over fun
@user1178729 it depends what kind of programming your doing, but it is pretty awesome for C family languages
user457812
If it's POSIX-compliant, it's best for programming.
I'm not using an ugly os on my main computer
Linux is not ugly.
21:43
@RadekSlupik It would be no more or less fun developing for Linux or Mac
Nor is OS X. Windows is ugly.
user457812
Quit star'ing my obvious lies
user457812
I think they're all decent looking.
it is on my opinion
If I cannot use the command line, it’s not fun to develop software.
21:44
@KeithLayne It's a commonly known fact. The decades of adjusting MSVC to Intel processors didn't go in vain.
user457812
Visual Studio's got a badass debugger, so there's one point for Windows.
@nil so does Xcode
@RadekSlupik Windows is much less ugly when Visual Studio is open.
Oh yes VS's debugger is so osom
hello everyone :)
21:45
Also how can make botiful crosplatfum ui psl
user457812
I like Xcode's debugger, but I still prefer VS's. (And I'm a Mac user and coder normally, so I'm not just playing favorites with the OS I use.)
@Cicada HTML
Do you have a computer just for programming?
@nil especially with LLDB
21:45
But then I need an HTTP server or wat
Because most programs are written for windows
@user1178729: Don't forget: "There is no requirement that anything we say here makes any sense.". Also: cheese cake nunnery.
@Cicada no.
user457812
LLDB is certainly nice as of the latest Xcode release.
@user1178729: Wait, what? Most programs are written for windows? Elaborate on that.
21:45
Here is a beautiful cross-platform GUI made in HTML: crunchapp.net
Just to give an example.
There are probably alternatives to Air if you dislike Adobe.
XULRunner :P
@Zeta it's fairly self explanatory, though you may doubt its accuracy
@Zeta well, just look for programms and most of them are only windows and linux, not osx
user457812
Beats the hell out of gdb, anyway, but that's not all that hard to accomplish. You basically just have to make something that doesn't immediately make someone want to gouge their eyes out with rusty spoons and you've beaten gdb.
user457812
Unfortunately, it's a recurring boss battle, so you're doomed.
@user1178729 you're ignoring the web and all embedded development and superservers
21:47
well, as far as I can tell, Linux programs have all the usability of the wrong end of an automatic shotgun.
5
and their dev tools are even worse
@RadekSlupik like java
@user1178729 most linux stuff is ported to mac
user457812
Oddly enough, most of the programs I use are Mac OS-only.
@MooingDuck nooooooooooo :(
@RadekSlupik also .net
21:48
“nice-looking”
anyone have a ruby vs python preference?
@RadekSlupik That looks a lot like what I need! But Adobe.
@JustinMeiners Python.
I’m experienced with both.
@JustinMeiners python is fastish, ruby is the slowest "real" language. Take your pick.
@RadekSlupik what are your main reasons for that
21:49
Python’s module system is way better than Ruby’s #include-like shit.
user457812
Ruby is god, praise be to the Ruby.
Python is simpler and easier to understand.
In Ruby you have three different kinds of lambdas and two different kinds of exceptions.
user457812
Two different kinds of exceptions?
user457812
Don't think I've run across that.
21:50
Usually Ruby code does magic so that you don’t have to write anything (think Ruby on Rails). With Python you are usually more aware of what’s happening.
@nil throw and raise.
@MooingDuck thats what they said
Ruby has an ahead-of-time compiler.
It compiles to machine code.
Python has that too.
@RadekSlupik the shootout doesn't seem to be using that, Ruby is still twice as slow as lua.
Well then it sucks.
When doing benchmarks on languages, always use the fastest implementation possible with the most optimizations.
user457812
21:52
@RadekSlupik Ah, I suppose that counts, but it's not really different kinds of exceptions, it's just different kinds of arguments to create an exception object.
No they work completely differently.
@RadekSlupik have you used any good web frameworks with python?
> catch/throw are not the same as raise/rescue. catch/throw allows you to quickly exit blocks back to a point where a catch is defined for a specific symbol, raise rescue is the real exception handling stuff involving the Exception object.
@JustinMeiners Flask
Flask is awesome.
No magic like in Rails.
user457812
Rails is evil.
@videos.route('/')
def index():
    videos = Video.objects
    return render_template('videos/index.html', videos=videos)
Flask is not tied to ORM/database, either.
21:53
Thanks for the help guys
Flask basically doesn’t assume anything, that’s why I like it.
Someday FORTRAN will rise again and end this discussion..
Maybe the protocol you use: HTTP.
@DesmondHume No; Haskell > FORTRAN.
Also Flask is easily embeddable in existing applications.
@JustinMeiners here is a bug tracker I’m writing in Python with Flask, if you’re interested. github.com/daknok/Hexapoda
It still sucks and it’s very very limited though. xD
I started a few days ago.
@RadekSlupik are there any good python ui libraries for linux or mac?
21:56
or is it usuallyy better just to use web
@JustinMeiners for OS X Cocoa, for Linux there probably are.
user457812
There are no good alternative UI libraries for OS X, really.
Well if you want a web app, a web interface is better.
@nil WebKit
Safari/Chrome
21:58
@DesmondHume that is awesome
Oh wait Safari and Chrome aren’t libraries. xD
user457812
I prefer not to run apps in a browser.
user457812
GTK usually requires X11, so it's out the window. Qt is.. well, it's Qt, it's not that friendly. Mapping Obj-C (since Cocoa uses it) to other languages is often a painful ordeal and makes looking stuff up in the docs difficult as well.
user457812
In general, if you're making something for OS X, you're going to use Obj-C or shoot yourself in the face.
user457812
Maybe both.
@nil Or MacRuby. I had great experience with it.

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