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Ell
5:03 PM
my mother is being an almighty douche today
 
I wish we had more c++ users on stackoverflow, I mean.. comparing the number of questions tagged with C# vs C++ we have aprox. 326 370 vs 136 380
 
huumm
 
@Nils what exactly are you trying to accomplish?
 
assignment 4 for algo class
 
@Nils also, doing while (!stream.eof ()) is wrong in almost every case there is
 
5:06 PM
I can't optimize when debugging. IIRC with gcc that was possible.
ah thx
@refp better idea?
 
@Nils instead take advantage of the fact that a std::istream implicitly can be used as a boolean value: while (std::getline (stream, dst))
 
user784668
@refp More C++ users on SO means more idiots.
 
@Fanael I think I can manage..
I want to answer questions about c++, but there aren't that many which are actually interesting.. more users means higher odds of that interesting question being posted
 
What we need are more high quality questions.
 
user784668
@refp Ask an interesting question yourself.
 
5:09 PM
@Fanael no one finds my questions interesting enough to come up with a good answer, take the only question I have ever asked as an example: stackoverflow.com/questions/11138188/…
@Mysticial agreed.
 
It's really hard to write a good answer unless the question itself is amazing...
for me at least...
 
Hi
 
user784668
What's the result of 2 + 2?
 
the sad thing about c++ is that it seems that there is a big gap between those who know little about the language and those who know a lot, not many users are somewhere in-between.. this means that many questions valid from a novice programmers point of view gets bashed on my high-rep users
stupid internet connection..
 
Is there a software using which i can mock localhost as some website say www.example.com
 
user784668
5:12 PM
@refp You sent that message twice.
 
@Fanael I know..
 
You can delete one.
 
40 secs ago, by refp
stupid internet connection..
 
@Drise This is so awesome.
 
I think the C# community is one of the biggest (if every language tag is it's own community) on stackoverflow
stupid me.. I could have just checked stackoverflow.com/tags and realize that I was correct
 
5:19 PM
Humm I have somehow the feeling that the release build of my code is doing nothing in my VS 2012 beta..
the debug build seems to work
 
@Nils Dead Code Elimination?
 
well but i output some stuff
to cout
assert(3==4);
doesn't have any effect
well I guess asserts are removed in release
but still
 
user784668
@Nils They're if NDEBUG is defined.
 
@Nils speaking of optimization you have a lot of things in there which you could clean up and make better solutions for
 
yeah
well I have been somewhat ignorant about streams so far
 
5:25 PM
why use std::string::substr to split the string into two pairs when you could just pass the whole string to a std::istringstream iss and do iss >> vertex1 >> vertex2;? That also makes it possible to use other whitespace characters than space to separate the numbers in your file
 
Boys and girls, proper authentification & launcher has reached the Kyrostat prototype. @CatPlusPlus @DeadMG - Some finishing touches remain, but I'll get the binary upstairs for everyone to have a go at it (soon, it's my birthday tomorrow, so I'm going to sleep all day) . But don't expect glorious space battles, it's just a prototype. :P
Sometimes, I'm so awesome.
 
while (std::getline (stream, dst)) {std::istringstream iss (dst); iss >> vertex1 >> vertex2; /* add error check */ cont[vertex1].insert (vertex2);}
^ @Nils
 
Cool. Up the sources, too.
 
"Up the sources"?
oh, nevermind..
 
Sure thing, I just hope we won't recycle it, it should be a point of inspiration to block in the true glory. Although the launcher is pretty cute
I need to force some shadows though
lacks depth
 
5:29 PM
@refp dst is a string?
 
a std::string, yes
 
user784668
How to cause swapping, Python way: ideone.com/9tT7l
 
@Nils unless you add proper error checking you could aswell just do while (stream >> vertex1 >> vertex2) cont[vertex1].insert(vertex2);
 
Well, I broke the updater.
Bah, I need to play some EVE to relax
 
@Fanael while (new int); /* preferably you should use a bigger type to make it faster, though */
 
5:32 PM
@refp thx
 
@CatPlusPlus Still playing EVE?
 
user784668
@refp That won't cause swapping if you have overcommit enabled.
 
I'm going to reactive, but I'm still kind of inbetween deciding whether it is fun or not.
 
@CatPlusPlus Is it good?
 
5:34 PM
it is awesome when you have people to play it with
 
It's better if you have someone to play with.
 
solo - it's shit.
 
user784668
Kewl.
 
user784668
1261 MB of swap is used.
 
I still get different results release/debug mode!?
it seems to do nothing in release mode
 
5:35 PM
Hah, only in EVE.
 
How long should it take to read a 70M file like that?
 
My 15-minute UIs win 10 years of EVE development.
 
@Nils depends on STL implementation, hardware, the wind and the smell of your socks
 
whoops, 14 years*
 
yeah but what would you expect?
VS 11 and a more or less modern box.
 
5:37 PM
@Nils probably the equivalent to running the same code on a more or less modern computer, where the binary is compiled with VS11
@Nils you were talking so much about debugging earlier, why don't you just debug your application and see what it is doing that way?
or, the other approach, make it so that you can actually notice that it is doing something.. print something calculated from the values retrieved, or whatever.
 
I do in debug mode it seems fine.
but very slow
and in release mode the whole function call seems not to happen.
 
cool story bro'
 
yeah
 
I generally can't compile for debug because it would take too long to do test runs.
If it takes a minute to run to the point of failure under release... Forget about debug.
 
Just activated that 4 hours thingy for PLEX
I'm not feeling it anymore. :(
My corp is now actually 1 year and 2 months old
wow
I think I'm going to work on Kyrostat, makes me feel good.
 
5:42 PM
yeah
would you mind hopping in to IRC so we can talk about that?
 
Sure thing, but first I have to wash the damn car. You're welcome to tag along if you'd like. :P
 
lol
no thanks :p
 
I've been thinking about something today, about how people react to different genres of games. When RTSs are in question, little or no development interest if it's not a huge title.
If it's an RPG - even a new one - everyone is excited.
Curious.
 
Stories are still the best thing about EVE anyway.
 
Also, the launcher is stuck on Windows. But it won't be a problem to make it more cross-platformy. Example purposes, eh.
 
5:50 PM
see, the question I have a burning need to ask is
why do we even have a launcher?
 
Oh, it's just an experiment. Took me 4 hours to crack it in. :D
Always wanted one. :$
It's not important, of course. :D
 
Autoupdater on Windows might be nice.
On Linux we'll use native packages anyway. Dunno about OSX, but who really cares about them.
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus Mac users have enough money to buy Linux or download Windows. Or whatever.
 
lol
 
I've always felt that a Launcher is like "Yo, dawg, we're serious." Hah.
 
5:52 PM
@DomagojPandža are there any screenshots of actual gameplay?
 
@refp no.
 
It's hard to get a screenshot of something that doesn't exist.
 
@DeadMG is there any actual gameplay? is the project opensource? are you going to reply to this message with a message containing the word "no"? (<- last question is just to be an ass)
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus Make a screenshot of your desktop and say the game is there, only transparent.
 
user784668
@refp no
 
5:54 PM
@refp no, no, and no.
 
@refp Only a prototype, but it can't be used as a representation of the game, it will be dispatched among the clounge squad and we'll see from there.
 
what a paradox..
 
it'll take a month or two before we have something worth showing
 
boring fluckers..
 
Kyrostat has the potential to be awesome if we play our cards right.
 
5:55 PM
not that I'm a big fan of game development.. I've had my fair share of that in my past, as well as gaming, blargh - the hours wasted.
@DomagojPandža everything has the potential to be awesome before you start writing what's required
 
user784668
For anyone who thinks that swapping is the baddest: dropped caches are worser.
 
EVE in 2000s. Hah. :D
Game development is the most noble and artistic of all the developments in the world of development. Everyone who thinks otherwise is a boring dude in a suit who writes database backends.
 
user784668
@DomagojPandža no
 
Ahahah, Ping pong
@Fanael !no.
 
6:04 PM
well
I think that Verifone have a point- if the researchers haven't given them the technical details,then WTF are people expecting them to do?
 
WE WANT YOU TO FIX IT!
FIX WHAT?
I WON'T TELL YOU.
 
lol
 
Corona tastes like piss. I wanted to say this.
 
And every exposure of this kind without supplying exact technical details should be considered a malicious crime.
 
user784668
@EtiennedeMartel lol pong
 
6:06 PM
It's attention whoring at the potential expense of hundreds of thousands of people.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think all of us found that article interesting
german or not..
the novice programmers mind when dealing with pointers..
- I'm going to be alright, just need to jump... right, NOWHAaaa ... fuck.
 
Oh, damn.
Right in the junk.
 
ANIMATED GIF
 
@RadekSlupik don't we all love 'em?
 
6:13 PM
Can someone elaborate why the Clounge doesn't like animated GIFs? What are you running, Pentium IIs with a dial up modem?
 
@DomagojPandža probably..
 
Some people use an OS that sucks and the gif flickers, they say.
 
@DomagojPandža "Please make sure you're not posting any animated gifs so that they will be oneboxed, because this makes them flicker over everybody's monitor until we have managed to chat it off the screen."
 
So much flickery.
 
Never had that problem.
 
6:15 PM
Me neither.
 
why should the rest of us suffer? they should modify their browser (with a plugin or similar) removing animated gifs from being shown, OR just making them stop
 
Probably some gif nazi.
If it were a crime, the gif wouldn't animate.
 
user784668
ha ha bitch, now it's chatted off.
 
“Gif” is Dutch for “poison”.
@Fanael Download a larger monitor.
 
user784668
@RadekSlupik No.
 
6:16 PM
@RadekSlupik learn to use a smaller monitor
 
nomnom
 
people claiming that they must have a large monitor, preferably two of 'em.. or three. well I could describe them with a word that is very offensive, instead I'm just going to write "they are pricks"
 
I don't care if my monitors are big, but without at least two monitors, I cannot work.
 
user784668
@refp Two? Three? Five are a must.
 
@RadekSlupik and why is that, do you have four pair of eyes so that you can watch two monitors at the same time? learn to use a proper window manager.
 
6:18 PM
Developing software with only one monitor is like eating food with only one slice of bacon.
 
hah, having everything displayed infront of you is the best.
 
sure, you might be able to move your eyes a bit faster than pressing some key-combo and waiting for the computer to render the new view, but still!
 
user784668
@DomagojPandža Having everything displayed behind you is bester.
 
@refp Even with a “proper window manager”, switching between documentation and code is annoying.
 
"Proper window manager" just spells rolling your eyes to an nth display.
 
6:19 PM
I find moving my eyes annoying, I rather do it with a key-combo - or have them both on the same monitor
 
Or even worse, switching between the web browser in which your being-developed-web-app is runnig.
 
@refp I can see both screens at once.
 
though I'm bored and raised with laptops, never have I had a "real" computer.. so I guess I'm bias
 
@DeadMG This.
It's not even hard.
It's beautiful
 
@DeadMG can you read from them both, at the same time?
 
6:20 PM
Laptops can have multiple displays too.
 
You don't have to, that's not the point
it's just easier to contemplate code and documentation
 
or whatever
 
@RadekSlupik of course, but that doesn't mean that I want mien to have it
 
or photoshop and 3ds max
 
6:20 PM
@refp Well, they are both 24" 1080p, so it's a tad harder, but I have been known to watch two games of Starcraft 2 on them simultaneously.
 
@refp I was proving that “being raised with laptops” is irrelevant to the number of monitors you can use.
 
@DeadMG "simultaneously" like running two threads on a single core, you are not doing it parallel, you are switching back and forth.. which could be done using just one monitor and a window manager where you can configurate how to easily switch between the two views.
 
If you can work with only one monitor, sure, go ahead and use only one monitor, but I cannot.
 
@RadekSlupik it's far more common with laptops with one monitor, with that said I find your statement to be full of BS.
 
I am never going back to a single display.
Not only it is

a) Functional
b) Awesome
c) Erotic
d) Makes you look badass
e) Makes all your buddies jelly
 
6:23 PM
@refp Right, but you can't do that whilst typing, say. Or if one application is full 3D and takes a non-trivial time to minimize.
 
I'm not saying that using more than one monitor is the work of the devil, I'm just saying that people claiming that they cannot, like absolutely freakin' NOT, work with just one monitor have gotten caught up with.. monitors
@DeadMG I could with a mod I wrote for suckless dwm!
 
Well, I could work with one monitor, if the deadlines were twice as long.
 
@refp Don't think you can write a dwm that can psychically tell when to switch.
 
Also, I find that multiple displays save my social life. Now, I no longer ignore blips from other people who matter.
 
Two monitors are a sane minimum for any IDE.
 
user784668
6:25 PM
@DomagojPandža But you can view two porn movies simultaneously even on a single display. Ever heard of tiling?
 
Origin is retarded even for EA standards.
I wanted to give them money and it refused to take it.
 
over 60% of my screens are empty :P
I never maximize my windows.
Except for Mail and Minecraft, which run fullscreen.
 
I can have a million displays, I'll clog 'em up eventually.
 
@DeadMG hmm.. wouldn't be that hard though (using webcam eye tracking technique)
 
Two monitors is twice as much screen estate. Tiling is 50%.
 
6:26 PM
100% of my screen is in use, pretty much all the time
 
I don't like a 1920x1080 browser window.
 
Not maximising windows is silly.
 
So fucking big.
 
I can't stand non-maximized windows
People who don't maximize are usually Mac users.
 
My browser window is usually like only a half a thousand pixels high.
 
user784668
6:27 PM
@RadekSlupik what
 
@DomagojPandža yup :P
 
You must love scrolling everywhere all the time.
 
The windowing system on OS X sucks serious dicks.
 
I like scrolling.
 
You're wasting space by not using it.
 
6:28 PM
 
@CatPlusPlus If I would maximize my window, I would still not use it.
Most of the space would be white on most web pages.
 
6 "desktops" which I can switch between by using two-key-combos, the terminal window has multiple tabs (also two-key-combo required to switch), and the vim inside the terminal has windows in itself as well as tabs
I only need one monitor
 
My editor window is usually around 600 by 800 pixels.
 
Yuck virtual desktops.
 
I just wish I had a bit higher resolution on this old macbook pro
 
6:30 PM
Virtual desktops suck; they are cluttered.
 
@CatPlusPlus I thought the same thing, but with some tweaking it is working quite well under mac os x
@CatPlusPlus suckless dwm did it much better though
 
@refp Something like 2880x1800? :P
 
@RadekSlupik in what they are they cluttered? disabling the use of icons and other things you don't need makes it.. awesome
@DomagojPandža nha, not really.. that would make things very hard to read on a 13"
 
@refp You cannot see at a glance all windows.
 
ITT Mac users are weird.
 
6:32 PM
You need to switch to a different screen first.
 
@RadekSlupik I can, with the view I just scrot:ed
 
@CatPlusPlus ITR all users are weird.
@refp Well… that is a different screen.
 
@RadekSlupik well, sliding three fingers down will make it possible to see all windows at the same time
 
@refp Got a new 15" retina macbook pro a few days ago, set me back 4 grand. But I love the display, makes it easy to work with it. Still haven't forced the full resolution, Apple does some weird crap.
 
@refp double tapping the mouse with two fingers here, but still, that is a different screen and requires time.
Rotating your eyes 20º is much faster and you see everything in full size immediately.
@DomagojPandža How do images on the web look?
Are they fuzzy or really sharp?
 
6:34 PM
@RadekSlupik disabling animations and it isn't that much time required
 
@Nils I'm pretty sure there are several howto's on the internet about how to start up a windows box. Some even weigh less than 6 pages and some have been reported to work !
 
On the iPhone's Retina display they look scaled-up and fuzzy.
 
I'd say it's no time at all, when you get used to pressing the button instead of moving your eyes
 
@refp still not full-size.
 
@DomagojPandža 4k for a tiny screen?
 
6:35 PM
@RadekSlupik nope, but I don't need to either so I guess I'm alright - right?
 
If you don't need it, it's fine.
 
@sehe I needed something that I can bring with me and still have the resolution which really makes it feel big. And the images are quite alright, acceptable because of the drastic change in resolution
 
@RadekSlupik I wouldn't be on the "you only need one monitor" side of this discussion (all by myself) if I actually wished that I had more than one
 
For example, I can read books on the iPhone 4s without any trouble, it just "feels" big.
 
Time for a wallpaper change, by the way. “Grass Blades” is getting boring.
 
6:37 PM
the only time I want another monitor is when watching a movie while hacking a long on a not-so-exciting-project, but while doing that I could as well just.. stop doing whatever I'm doing and watch the damn movie
 
@RadekSlupik I have those birds in shallow water or something, one of the OS X included wallpapers
and for the second display that elephant
also one of the stock images
some of them feel forced, not suitable for a desktop background
 
I have “Mt. Fuji” and “Lake” now.
@DomagojPandža I agree.
I want to write a program but I have no idea what kind of one.
 
@RadekSlupik software raytracer :P
 
Nah, I'm not really into graphics programming or geometry.
I guess I'll write a task manager.
Only thinking of how I'll do the UI.
 
Nothing like chasing rays to make a man's day. :D
 
6:42 PM
I'd like to write it in Python, but I still want a decent GUI.
 
You like Python?
 
Radek <3 Python
 
I somehow can't really swallow interpreted languages.
 
lol
“interpreted languages”
Python can just as well be compiled.
 
Yeah, but it doesn't really default to it. And far from it being as performant as C++ :P
I just have a thing for low-level wankery, probably.
And writing realtime radiosity GI solvers, so speed is everything.
Python is good, over 600k lines of code exist in EVE Online (gameplay mechanics)
 
6:45 PM
C++ can be interpreted, too.
@DomagojPandža That's like saying C is good because it's used in the Linux kernel.
 
True enough, but it is battletested.
Nothing is perfect, but good for its purposes.
 
@DomagojPandža I'd hope so at that pricetag. Also, get your eyesight insured because you can't afford it to deteriorate before the macbook is 'written off'
 
Also, a task manager doesn't need speed. It can be slow as fuck, as long as the UI is responsive. It doesn't have to analyze a GB of data.
It would be nice if I could use Python code on the iPhone.
If I include a Python implementation, it should work.
I'm only unsure how to bridge it properly with Objective-C.
 
@RadekSlupik For what purpose? Curiosity or you have something more practical in mind?
 
Ah fuck it, I'll just write it in Objective-C.
@DomagojPandža To write the task manager.
 
6:48 PM
Oh, I thought it was a desktop app. Why don't you try a simple game or something?
:D
 
Fuck game development.
If there is one branch of software development that I hate, it's game development.
 
So, you hate arguably the most profitable and accessible branch of software development?
Any reason why or just outright hate of type "because fuck you, that's why"?
 
I generally like to write applications that people can use to be productive.
 
@Nils Code reviewed (many comments explaining why): liveworkspace.org/code/193a79ccb97cfb429c89b437c0e8bb0b
 
Task managers, bug trackers, pastebins, RSS readers, those kind of things.
 
6:51 PM
Well, that's not excluded. Toolset development is one of the most important parts of worthwhile game development.
 
So, you like to write things devoid of any creativity.
 
I don't see how they devoid of any creativity.
 
What's creative about pastebin?
It's the same thing, always.
 
@Nils Dammit. Copy/paste mishap. Fixed here: liveworkspace.org/code/a7bba8412a094366b79843f299835e31
 
You can always add unique features to your software, even if it's a pastebin.
 
6:54 PM
@CatPlusPlus It's the creativity in making it. That's also what adds value to employers. If you say "I can program but can't be arsed unless it is really something novel or creative" - no hire.
 
Boring things are boring.
 
On the other hand I live by, "well I can think of more sexy jobs, but here are two things that I could really turn into a challenge and I'd love to excel in.
@CatPlusPlus Life is boring. Get over it.
If you're always looking for a thrill you'll die young and unhappy
Not even with a tiling WM?
Disclaimer, I run everything FS and with no menu bars
 
Or just work on creative stuff. :P
@sehe Nope, just can't do it. :D
 
Stuff isn't creative, people are creative.
 
@DomagojPandža Or just work creatively. And have lots of sex to compensate.
@RadekSlupik My feeling there
 
6:57 PM
Even when you write a paste bin that's the same as all the other ones, you can still do the web design. :P
 
Writing boring software is boring, no matter what you do.
 
Money serves as counterweight for doing boring things.
 
@DomagojPandža Out of curiosity, is it an esthetics thing? Or is it a 'control freak thing' (Don't Make Me Think(Watch)/Who Moved My Cheese)? Or lastly, is it a 'Reduce Distractions' thing?
(I'm firmly in the latter category. When there's even a taskbar in sight, I am constantly distracted by it and compelled to click on those tasks and get distracted)
 
@sehe The former, it just feels nice, not claustrophobic. :D
 
@CatPlusPlus Your definition of “boring” is different from mine.
 
6:59 PM
If there's no room for experimentation, it's boring.
 
Yeah I have that feeling, but the 'do-not-disturb' quality wins it
 
How is there no room for experimentation in a pastebin?
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, there's always room for experimentation.
 

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