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10:04 AM
There should be a free, high-quality, free e-book on modern C++11.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik go ahead!
it might actually be funny to produce a Lounge<C++> book
a collaborative effort
we could call it … No more Stack Overflow
and it would be, like, funny ’cause it has two meanings, and, like, it’s true
ok, now I blew it
by the way, I’m writing weekly lunch reminders at work for our PhD students’ lunch each Thursday and the idea is to send a funny reminder … and unfortunately nobody gets the geek references
it’s depressing
 
What are the references?
 
for instance, two weeks ago it included a joke about spoons (Matrix style, everybody got that) and a fork bomb
 
lol I can't write books. 3:
 
how many people even noticed the fork bomb? zero
grr, I hate my ISP
they throttle BitTorrent
which is just fucked up, because I’ve never used BT for illegal content
 
10:08 AM
In the Netherlands that's illegal.
 
"You can pirate, but you can't do it fast!"
 
@Pubby I don’t pirate, I’m downloading content I bought (in this case, the Humble Indie Bundle)
 
Buy video games?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
That shit's going on youtube!
 
Titled Fag buys video games!
 
10:11 AM
Morning
 
Afternoon
Hahhhahaha fag
Okay, I'll stop.
 
@ScottW To be honest, I’m a bit disappointed so far, I tried Bastion yesterday and despite the nice graphics, soundtrack and funny storytelling it’s not my kind of games
walk around, smash stuff
 
Hey Scott I'm eating a frikadelbroodje.
 
“fun”
 
Amnesia isn't very scary, but it's quite fun.
 
10:13 AM
I had a dream where I was playing Amnesia and it was scary. Never played it IRL though.
 
Play it in a forest at 2 AM!
On a laptop.
I enjoy modules.
 
lol
WikiDot sucks.
 
Well then set it up on a new site. This book needs to be done for the holiday season.
 
It overrides the fukken OS-wide shortcuts.
A GitHub repo with TeX files.
 
10:20 AM
Set it up, I dunno how2github.
 
I'll do that in an hour.
 
Keep forgetting FB is written in C++. “@newsyc20: Facebook C++ Conference Live Blogging http://ramisayar.com/fb-cpp-conf/ (http://bit.ly/KAUoFL)”
tell them this whenever some fag says “PHP is good enough, look, they wrote Facebook in it”
anyway, C++ must be awesome, FB was written in it
 
I more fond of F# than C++ :)
 
… now waiting for somebody to take a screenshot of this and use it out of context to mock us :D
 
10:29 AM
Actually is that good or bad news when you say FB is written in C++?
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik It’s very … empty ;)
 
It's a beginning!
 
and it gives me an opportunity to nitpick, such as: use the KOMA classes instead of the standard ones ;)
And check what tex.se has to say about typesetting “C++”
 
I don't know how to do < and > outside of math mode in TeX.
 
I wonder sometimes if the use of ++ in C++ is there to warn you about the langauge before you touch it lol
 
10:34 AM
@RadekdaknokSlupik Eh, you can just type them, no? But since they don’t form part of canonical typography and punctuation they will look awkward
I’d generally typeset code as such
 
I already got it.
 
scott sometimes the use of ++i or i++ confuses the hell out of me
 
\newcommand{\loungecxx}{Lounge\textless C++\textgreater}

\title{The \loungecxx\ Book}
\author{The \loungecxx\ People}
 
or use stylistic alternatives, i.e. in my master thesis I used the bra-ket notation for templates
 
++ in Haskell is rendered without a linebreak?
 
10:35 AM
@RadekdaknokSlupik it is similar to a std::stringbuf<>, which is indeed used under water by the stringstream classes
@KonradRudolph see ^
 
@sehe That’s just begging the question, you know ;)
 
oh
 
Who's good at writing introductions?
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik at sunday, noon...
 
10:38 AM
@RadekdaknokSlupik me, me! “Once upon a midnight dreary …”
 
\chapter{Introduction}
This book blah. % TODO: Expand introduction.
 
@ScottW I don't think you'll remember much of it
@Pubby huzzah:
> Now you can write a programming.
 
:)
 
Make a toy
 
10:46 AM
Make a version control system.
 
Question concerning GitHub: is it good practice to delete your fork of a repository if you only forked it to create a patch, and after your pull request has been merged?
 
@sehe CHAPTERS=$(wildcard *.tex)
 
@ScottW Command line tetris. Blind chess. A library management application. Defrag for ext4...
 
CHAPTERS=$(wildcard *.tex)
book.pdf: $(CHAPTERS)
 
10:47 AM
@RadekdaknokSlupik Erm... this is github, feel free to improve
@KonradRudolph Why? Only if you care about cruft in your account
 
@sehe Oh I do, a lot
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik You already said that
 
and pdflatex? Really?
 
@KonradRudolph So... delete it
 
do you hate Unicode?
wait, let me rephrase that
 
10:48 AM
@KonradRudolph What else, I'm not a latex bigot expert
 
@sehe LuaTeX or XeLaTeX
although personally I’ve only ever used the latter
 
I thought I was doing pretty well to 'discover' a way to render the ps/pdf in the first place
@KonradRudolph Cthuluh?
 
that said, a LaTeX build system essentially needs latexmk or something similar anyway to build the dependencies correctly
 
@sehe I fixed the makefile now. Thanks for adding it though!
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik No problem :)
 
10:52 AM
We should probably decide what are book is going to be about
 
C++
Is there some online real-time collaborative outline app or something?
 
What parts of C++
Google docs maybe
 
namespaces, operator overloading, RAII, exceptions, smart pointers, move semantics, SFINAE, templates, references
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Woah! Content!
 
What about all these C++ tricks we come up with
 
10:54 AM
C++ y u so many features!
@sehe lol :P
 
are you guys writing a lounge c++ book?
 
cool
 
I think it's a good idea to have an outline first that we can all edit, before starting to write the actual book.
 
great, Limbo doesn’t load the textures correctly
 
10:57 AM
@KonradRudolph It's supposed to be all black and gray.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yes, but probably not a grid of lines for the head – and everything else
 
Oh.
Ask your money back.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Better yet, why are we writing the book? Should we do another 'from the basics' book? IMO they exist. Even in the free variety
 
@sehe Because we're all bored to death.
 
10:59 AM
Oh. That's a pretty good reason
 
4 mins ago, by Pubby
What about all these C++ tricks we come up with
 
I guess
 
restart my computer? No f*ing way :D
I last did that in the summer of ’69
 
There hasn't been a book about the tricks we know
 
@Pubby That's my point. Hello world doesn't really come into the picture there :)
 
10:59 AM
:P
 
It would probably be more interesting than rehashing stuff we say constantly in SO answers
 
Like combine all that in one book?
 
@Pubby yes and no. Don't underestimate the ego boost we get and the entertainment value of the (false) antagonism: Geeks vs. noobs
 
What about highlighting the commonly misunderstood things of C++?
Okay never mind, that will be all of C++.
 
I personally think the idea of accreting blog posts, article by article, then 'structuring' that into a book has a higher chance of ending on-target (and of completing at all)
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yes
@RadekdaknokSlupik No
 
11:02 AM
How about we write an epic fantasy novel featuring the animals of the lounge
 
Thinking of GEB/Alice in wonderland there?
 
Things such as the different casting operators, rvalue references, exceptions in depth, new and delete, why pointers are often bad, rule of five, PODs.
 
That's actually nice. But someone will have to shake the poetics. Ah wait. @DomagojPandža . for that :)
 
And why isn't there an OpenSource GameBoy Color emulator?
/rant mode off
 
@KonradRudolph Whaaat?
There are OSS gameboy emulators, no doubt. What is a color emulator?
 
11:05 AM
Ain't the GameBoy Color just a GameBoy with colors? AFAIK games weren't specifically made just for the GameBoy Color.
 
@sehe “GameBoy Color”
 
Oh, that way. Then the answer must be: because of capitalist Nintendo using restrictive licenses and sueing people who (try to) bypass their 'security' mechanisms?
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik But emulators are/were/must be
anyway, I know of one written in JavaScript, it’s true
but (modern) C++?
essentially, I need one for my smartphone but the ones that exist for smartphone lack a functionality I need and that I want to add ;)
 
@KonradRudolph m.peponas.free.fr/gngb Gngb: a Color Gameboy emulator
> It support most of Gameboy and Color Gameboy games.
 
lol "Color GameBoy"
 
11:09 AM
sudo apt-get build-dep gngb
apt-get source gngb
@KonradRudolph oh. smart phone. that's a requirement that totally didn't need to mentioned early :)
 
@sehe Naw, I’m assuming that a well-written port should be fairly easy to port
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik you removed the 'hello world' blurb ? :)
 
so I’m not looking specifically for a code that runs on smartphone as-is
 
@KonradRudolph Then have a look
 
11:11 AM
I expanded the introduction a bit.
 
but … C … pained voice
 
Well. I figure it would have been hard to find a C++ stdlib for nintendo at that time (the latest version update is 2006)
 
GBA emulators should be able to run GBC roms
 
The GameBoy Advance was awesome. Sonic Advance was one of the funnest games I ever played.
 
Hello people, just a quick try here before I ask a real question on the real SO
 
11:17 AM
Cicada is back
 
Can you use protocol buffers in a hostile environment? As in, is there a way to enforce a contract on data at deserialization? (eg, an integer range or something)
Well yes hello Pubby. I've been busy studying for finals and my nerves are breaking IT'S TOMORROW
 
You should have a party to calm your nerves
 
@sehe How is that relevant? “stdlib for nintendo”?
 
After the finals.
 
@Cicada Well, then it’s too late, no?
 
11:19 AM
@KonradRudolph Indeed, but I'm not quite sure partying just before finals is actually a good idea
 
@KonradRudolph @sehe Submit a few ideas to outline?
 
@Pubby Sorry, didn’t pay attention – where do we do that?
 
5 mins ago, by Radek 'daknok' Slupik
 
I hope that Google Docs does revisions, otherwise we're screwed when a griefer comes in.
Oh yes it does.
I'mma take shower so brb.
 
the new Google Docs is beyond amazing
 
11:47 AM
&(*(nullptr)) is UB or OK?
 
Hey guys you should take a shower too! It makes you come up with some really kick-ass ideas.
 
Hose me down!
 
@Pubby UB, and screws up on VS in debug mode in some versions
learned that the hard way
 
hmmm
@KonradRudolph in the lounge book, we should put a "Folks!" at the beginning!
3
 
This looks so stupid.
Okay litb wait.
 
11:54 AM
The Book<C++>
The People<C++>
 
lol
we make two cover versions. one pink and one blue. in the blue version we say "Dude!" when we show a compiler error
and the pink one will get "Bitch!" lol
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Gender mainstreaming, book. We need to make it the other way round. And “dude” is neutral, let’s use “bro”
 
> The Lounge<C++> Book
> Or: How I learned to stop currying and love the Johannes
What?
 
… and “ho”
 
11:55 AM
/b/ro
 
"Don't fail me bro!"
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Is this 4chan?! No.
 
We are the C-tards.
 
/c/ro?
 
@KonradRudolph No???!!!??!?!?!!!!
 
11:56 AM
No!!!!!11111oneoneoneleven
 
Anyone ever post on 4chan's /prog/?
 
@Pubby isn’t that a bit stupid? Talking about textual representation on an image board?
 
It's a text board, no images
 
11:57 AM
i tought 4chan is a porn page
 
'-._                  ___.....___
    `.__           ,-'        ,-.`-,            HAVE YOU READ
        `''-------'          ( p )  `._       YOUR ABELSON AND
                              `-'      \       SUSSMAN TODAY ?
                                        \
                              .         \
                               \---..,--'
   ................._           --...--,
                     `-.._         _.-'
                          `'-----''
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Eh, not really
same that reddit isn’t a porn page
 
same that Lounge<C++> was a porn page
 
or is it like reddit
 
12:02 PM
wat
why are we talking about my home website
 
Can I capture variables by const ref in a lambda expr?
 
nope
well at least as far as I know
 
@Nils Good one! Lambda captures.
 
why not?
 
It's either byval or byref
But you can't specify const AFAIK
Lemme check
 
5.1.2 Lambda expressions
There's no way to specify const, sez the standard
 
@Cicada Which paragraph exactly?
 
The grammar
 
auto const& foo = bar;
auto lambda = [&] { /* use foo */ };
 
because it just says you can either provide the name of the variable or add & before it to caputre it by ref
no word about cont
What's wrong with the following expression, clang says i is undeclared when calling l(2)
auto l = [=] (int i) { return i * (a + b); };
 
12:17 PM
Hmm.
Do you pass in an argument?
 
yeah I call l(2)
 
Compiles fine.
Are you sure you call l and not I?
 
what compiler?
 
@Nils GCC 4.5.1.
I'll try clang.
 
ah I just hve the apple dev tools here
> clang++ --version
Apple clang version 3.1 (tags/Apple/clang-318.0.58) (based on LLVM 3.1svn)
 
12:20 PM
Can using be used to only use certain member functions?
 
% cat foo.cc
int main() {
  int a = 42, b = 42;
  auto l = [=] (int i) { return i * (a + b); };
  l(314);
}
% clang++ foo.cc -std=c++11
%
Compiles fine here.
% clang -v
clang version 3.1 (tags/RELEASE_31/final)
Target: x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0
Thread model: posix
 
wtf
ouh :(
the code you pasted also doesn't work
 
lol
Just download the binaries.
It's the latest release.
 
So the clang version apple ships doesn't fucking work correctly!?
 
No.
On my machine it even segfaults when the code contains []{}.
I downloaded the latest release, put it in /opt/local and set in Xcode CC to /opt/local/bin/clang and it works fine now.
 
12:26 PM
ok
the xcode shipped version is just crap
 
Does anybody here have experience with Cinder. It seems like a nice try for a C++ graphics util library (without trying to create a game engine) but I can't really estimate the library's quality.
 
It uses singletons.
 
just putting it there is not a proper installation..
@KillianDS Wondering about this too
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Not everything needs to be TeXed.
 
12:31 PM
works now
thx @RadekdaknokSlupik for pointing this out
 
@FredOverflow What do you mean?
 
@KillianDS Depends on what you want – as far as I can see (only looked at it once, briefly, though) its design is much more archaic than, say, SFML’s. Not very modern C++-y
 
@Nils no problemo.
 
@KillianDS Essentially, for me the API failed as soon as I saw that they passed pointers to objects around in places where it seems completely superfluous
 
Can I assign a lambda expression to any other type than auto?
 
12:34 PM
@Nils std::function.
 
but that's not just for lambdas, right?
 
also for functino pointers
 
Yep.
And functors.
It's impossible to express the type of a lambda without auto or decltype.
 
auto l = [=] (int i) { return i * (a + b); };
std::cout << typeid(l).name() << std::endl;
Z4mainE3$_0
hummm
 
12:36 PM
The result of type_info::name() is implementation-defined and usually not useful.
Every lambda has a different type.
23
Q: Why can't I create a vector of lambda in C++11?

NawazI was trying to create a vector of lambda, but failed: auto ignore = [&]() { return 10; }; //1 std::vector<decltype(ignore)> v; //2 v.push_back([&]() { return 100; }); //3 Up to line #2, it compiles fine. But the line#3 gives compilation error: error: no matching funct...

 
thx
 
@KonradRudolph Thank you, that was what I wanted to know, that's definitely a no-go for me. It also had the impression it's incomplete, as in "we only code what we need when we need it", which is quite stupid for a generic library.
 
@KillianDS Wait, take my assessment with a grain of salt please, I only skimmed the tutorial, that’s all
this is not enough to pass an informed judgement
 
What is roughly the initial salary for a software engineer in Germany?
 
@KonradRudolph I added it to my own first impressions, which weren't that positive either.
 
12:42 PM
"I'm a game developer and references are slow!"
 
references are slow?
Can I write a recursive lambda?
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik What, where, when?!
@Nils Yes, using a combinator
 
10 mins ago, by Konrad Rudolph
@KillianDS Essentially, for me the API failed as soon as I saw that they passed pointers to objects around in places where it seems completely superfluous
 
@KonradRudolph What is a combinator?
 
In computer science, a fixed-point combinator (or fixpoint combinator) is a higher-order function that computes a fixed point of other functions. A fixed point of a function f is a value that f doesn't change (x such that x = f(x) ). Consider the function f(x) = x2. 0 and 1 are fixed points of this function, because 0 = 02 and 1 = 12. This function has no other fixed points. A very different example comes up with many familiar markup languages. For example, HTML list elements contain item elements which contain paragraphs (p elements) which contain text, emphasis elements like b and i, ...
 
12:45 PM
Wait I'll just google that myself :D
 
@ManofOneWay Just google it?
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Hmm, I didn’t imply that they thought references were slow. This is an industry-strengt library, I expect the developers to be quite smart
and they do use ostensibly clean C++, making use of standard library features etc.
 
There are several people in here from Germany
 
Fixed point combinators aren't the only type of combinators
 
12:47 PM
@ManofOneWay so you think a few people give you a better estimate than sites/organisations that do enquiries over 100s or 1000s of people
 
@Pubby Actually, I linked to Y combinators, the onebox just screwed up
 
@KillianDS Why do you even care?
 
@ManofOneWay You're absolutely right, I'll stop trying to help
 
@KonradRudolph do you have a code example of a recursive lambda?
 
@Nils Not in C++, sorry. But wait, that sounds like fun …
 
12:51 PM
It's not possible.
Lambdas need auto, but you cannot use an auto object in it's initializer.
 
ah damn, Ys are untyped :p
 
auto foo = [] { foo(); }; doesn't compile.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik That’s what a combinator solves
 
Y combinator: solving a problem that wouldn't be a problem if you just used a named function, since whatever.
 
Well actually I try to reimplement Python decorators in C++ as explained in this months Hacker Monthly..
 
12:54 PM
@CatPlusPlus Combinators come from languages without function names
notably, lambda calculus
 
Yes, I know that. I question their utility in languages with function names.
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, they are useful in C# at least, where using lambdas to constrain the scope makes some sense
not a lot, mind
it sucks that C++ insists on me specifying the argument type of a lambda
 
1:11 PM
DoSomething / do_something <-- what is the technical term for these kinds of styles?
 
g++ error messages suck
> main.cpp:17:36: error: function returning a function
 
heh
func.cpp:10:10: error: no member named 'function' in namespace 'std'
:(
 
am I doing something wrong?!
 
@Nils Wrong compiler version
 
1:18 PM
clang 3.1
meh
now I need to start windows or what
I wonder if I could install the newest gcc version on my mac w/o having to compile everything.
 
1:38 PM
If you want C++11 on Ideone, pick C++0x, not C++ ('cause that's g++ 4.3 or something).
And you need proper switch (GCC uses -std=c++0x or -std=c++11 in newer ones, dunno about Clang).
 
ok, I’m giving up, I’m getting lost in the argument types
 
Hummm
crashes but I don't know why
 
because you capture the map by reference
so you’ve got a dangling reference after the function memoize returns
 
hrmm sure
so I need to write a class?
 
would C++ without implicit conversions be useful/better?
 
1:49 PM
:D
 
@Nils No, just capture by value
 
and then how many times is the map copied?
 
if I’m not brain-dead right now, once
try it
 
if I just change it to a = it doesn't compile anymore
 
wouldn't the insert then also be useless?
 
1:53 PM
ah mutable
now it works..
well doesn't crash, but memoziation still does not work
 

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