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4:00 PM
I installed MSVC2008 and it installed the following SDKs with it:
Microsoft Windows SDK Visual Studio 2008 headers and libraries
Microsoft Windows SDK Visual Studio 2008 SP1 Expresse tools for .NET
Microsoft Windows SDK Visual Studio 2008 SP1 Expresse tools win32

but then I installed:
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 R2 Platform SDK

which one(s) should I uninstall ?
I'm thinking about removing Windows Server 2003 R2 Platform SDK
 
@Jonas: Not sure to understand your question. Why do you want to uninstall one of them ?
 
Yeah, we're missing some context here.
 
@ereOn well since I have 2008 SDKs shouldn't the Windows Server 2003 R2 Platform SDK be useless ?
 
Someone is hogging my Internet.
Platform SDK has been called Windows SDK for years.
Either way you have an outdated version, so.
 
@Jonas: I don't know actually. If it were up to me I would tell you to uninstall them all, then uninstall Windows and finally install Linux.
 
4:07 PM
Coins! Stars! They're everywhere!
 
@sehe How am I related to Internet dictionaries?
 
@CatPlusPlus you mean if I want to code in VC I should go with 2010 ?
 
?
 
@Jonas: Drop everything. Install Visual Studio 2008 (or 2010, or 2011 if that's an option) then install the last "Platform SDK". That should do it.
2
 
4:13 PM
k thx
 
@RadekSlupik I dunno. Why do you ask, again (hint: reply-to fail/absent)
17 hours ago, by sehe
Yup. Also, internet dictionaries > me (<-- see that, I pulled a [@radekslupik] there)
Oh hey, found it. ^ The expression "X > me" is seen almost exclusively used by Herr Slupik
 
@sehe: And me ? How am I related to Internet dictionaries ?
 
@ereOn Figure it out
 
@sehe: I probably won't.
 
4:28 PM
@sehe I rarely say that.
More the other way around.
X < me
For example, Haskell < me.
 
@RadekSlupik Donkey testicles <? you.
 
What?
 
Idk.
 
Ok.
Me neither, that's why I ask.
I'm going to write an ORM in PHP.
I'm getting sick of SQL.
 
<? == the quality < is being assessed and its truth is unknown.
 
4:32 PM
Apache y u no start.
 
@RadekSlupik It saw you say PHP. It's scared.
 
Easy there.
 
3 messages moved to bin
@Drise That's what we're doing
 
Dealing with spam isn't easy.
 
:4256490 spam is not appreciated
 
4:34 PM
it's not a spam .. !
 
@БогАд Well. Greetings first, stranger :)
 
@БогАд It is
 
Drive by linking == spam.
 
@БогАд yes it is
 
Especially Facebook.
 
4:35 PM
:( okay .. !
my bad .. !
 
Ok we get it now. Please refer to the newbie-hints
 
kk ..
 
@БогАд Now, on to the real mystery. How shall I possibly @address you without funky cyrillics (?) on my keyboard :)
 
Copy and paste.
 
@RadekSlupik That sucks
 
4:38 PM
sometimes my coworkers drive me nuts. I make a new file, write #include "prompt.h", and get six compiler errors of "identifier not found". >.<
 
@RadekSlupik Also, it doesn't actually work. I need (at least) to remove a space then. Also, the whole point is addressing when there is no (visible) message to reply to.
@MooingDuck StdAfx.h much?
 
Your OS probably has a special chars panel.
 
also, MSVC's "goto definition" is useless
 
@RadekSlupik XP? Bwahahaha.
 
XP has that
 
4:41 PM
@sehe I don't always use an operating system, but when I do, I choose Linux.
 
@sehe copy paste
 
@MooingDuck Copy paste less, for you :)
@Drise Me too. At work...
 
I hope someone makes a meme image out of that one. That should be our new motto.
 
@Drise memegenerator.net appears to be down
 
@MooingDuck Why am I surprised such a site exists? I thought people still used things like Paint or some shit.
 
sbi
4:47 PM
The SO chat fails badly at Unicode.
 
Yeah I noticed. Thanks for convincing the 'copy/paste' sayers with a slanderous screenshot
 
@Drise mememaker.net is up
 
Perfect.
 
sbi
@balpha The chat fails at Unicode names. Badly. http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/4256740#4256740
 
Unicode? What sorcery is this.
 
4:58 PM
holy cow MSVC9's <functional> includes hundreds of files
 
Standard libs have a lot of bits, otherwise the maintainers would go insane.
They probably did anyway, but still.
 
@CatPlusPlus by my count, `<functional> included 1145 files.
 
It could have included windows.h.
 
sbi
You look at your screen, your screen looks back — and analyzes your mood. Creepily Orwellian, that. (The system analyses the watcher's mood in order to bring up mood-targeted ads.)
 
yet another patent
silly merkins
 
sbi
5:02 PM
@Cicada I think this is not just "yet another patent".
 
@CatPlusPlus almost all of them were the same eight or so files. I think they're abusing the preprocessor to work around variadics.
 
@MooingDuck That's what you call: highly functional
 
well what else then
 
@Cicada > "Creepily Orwellian, that"
 
so it appears that this file doesn't include <CrtDbg> like it needs, if _AFXDLL is defined. Anyone know a justifcation for that?
 
sbi
5:06 PM
If you ever wondered what happens when you click on the "Report" link on facebook to report come content, this explains it. Any questions left?
 
@MooingDuck Why do you believe "like it needs"?
@sbi Sure. Can we have one that isn't so blurry with jpeg artefacts that it might actually convey useful information?
 
@sehe I'm getting "ASSERT symbol not found" when I add a file that includes that header to my project.
 
I mean, beyond: "we thought this thing through!"
@MooingDuck Is the header supported with your particular set of defines?
 
sbi
@sehe Here you go. It won't help, though. This is a mess.
 
(anyway, I gotta run, sorry)
@sbi Lots better.
 
5:09 PM
@sehe it appears that code causing the issue is attempting to support this set of defines.
 
Look how the vote number changes at the speed of light
 
Someone is having way too much fun with the vote button
1
A: C bit operations / copy one bit from one byte to another byte

elmesbyte_2 = (byte_2 & 0b01111111) | (byte_1 & 0b10000000)

 
You're late
Looks like it stopped anyway
 
I wanna see the uncollapsed vote events on that.
 
There again
 
5:12 PM
someone is doing it on purpose, lol
 
The contrary would be creepy
 
The hell?
 
If those were all in the same direction, it'd be at a +/-100 now.
 
Why would as many people upvote an answer that's wrong?
 
sbi
@rubenvb You might be interested in this.
 
5:15 PM
@TomW It's not, actually.
 
@Cicada: the code seems to work to me: ideone.com/51fy8#view_edit_box
 
@Cicada changed your mind then?
 
I did.
 
point being, why would 50% of the population believe it to be right and 50% believe it to be wrong?
 
It's just that the answer wasn't general enough
And my brain was sdnfbsjdfskhfs
 
5:17 PM
@TomW Uh, why not?
different people have different opinions of things
:shock
 
sbi
Ha, donate.fsf.org is being blocked by corporate systems that use a Microsoft "network security" program, allegedly due to being a "gambling site". I am not sure Hanlon's Razor applies.
2
 
@DeadMG I'm sure you must be playing devil's advocate...opinion isn't really relevant on 'does this bitwise arithmetic give the desired result?'
 
@TomW Proving that it does or does not is undecidable in the general case.
 
Really? Really?
@sbi Like MS even cares about the donations corporate systems do to the madmen at FSF
 
especially as the answerer may have edited his answer
that stuff doesn't show up if you edit within a small window
 
5:22 PM
Ah. Hadn't considered edits.
 
sbi
@tweetsbi Yeah, I recently fixed a similar problem with comment replies (came up on meta.russian). It's on my short-term list to fix.
 
5:37 PM
@sbi Well, Microsoft is no stranger to the cock-up peninsula.
> Proprietary security software is an oxymoron -- if the user is not fundamentally in control of the software, the user has no security.
Ha, these guys.
 
FSF = Illuminati
 
No, Microsoft is the illuminati. FSF are a bunch of anarchist nutheads.
 
No.
 
user784668
ffs
 
user784668
sizeof y u can't use private members
 
5:44 PM
@Fanael why should sizeof be able to break encapsulation?
 
How do you make a decent-looking UI on linux with mono?
 
user784668
@MooingDuck Because I want it to.
 
user784668
@MooingDuck private means nothing anyway, so why not?
 
@Cicada You don't.
 
user784668
@Cicada mkfs.msdos /dev/sda
 
5:47 PM
coworkers: why you put includes in nested hierarchy, and then not qualify includes? I have like 50 -I switches in each project >.<
 
@Fanael Really?
That's bit silly.
 
@Fanael What.
 
But then again, C++.
 
user784668
@MooingDuck I usually have one. -I $project/src.
 
More than one: fail.
 
5:50 PM
@Fanael I usually have none, and qualify all includes. But the code at work doesn't.
 
Not counting -isystems.
 
user784668
What?
 
user784668
divss in my drawing method?
 
@Cicada looked at GTK#?
 
5:53 PM
> decent-looking
 
ha
 
user784668
GCC you didn't inline projection::ortho did you?
 
right, I didn't think it was either...but it might be the only option
I've used Monodevelop and thought it looked about as good as anything I've seen on *nix - that is, pretty bad, but bearable.
 
Yeah :(
Guess I'll go with that.
 
6:06 PM
@sbi How was work today?
 
a really bad idea: namespace test { #include <iostream> }
 
@MihaiTodor Welcome to real life, kid.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, well, we all have to experiment new ways in which to break the compiler sometimes, right? :)
 
@MihaiTodor You did not break the compiler. The compiler is perfectly fine.
 
You just broke your own code. Congratulations.
2
 
6:13 PM
You still have much to learn, young Padawan.
 
@EtiennedeMartel What are you up to?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh, c'mon, it was a fun experiment :))
 
@MihaiTodor Your smiley has a double chin.
@ManofOneWay I'm still afflicted with lazyassitis.
 
hmm, why is my framerate so bad? Visual Studio should do better than ~1fps
 
@EtiennedeMartel Same here, I should be doing some school work
 
6:15 PM
@EtiennedeMartel That's just because I didn't sleep much lately.
 
Your IDE is bad and you should feel bad.
 
@CatPlusPlus What are you up to?
 
Fierce IRC discussions.
 
Piotr "Fluffy Hater" Legnica.
2
 
About what?
 
6:17 PM
@MooingDuck Get a faster PC, with a SSD preferably. You expect to run ~$10k software on a 100$ machine? :)
 
Ell
its free isn't it? o.O
 
sbi
@Cicada If I had know GTK was indecent, I hadn't opened that damn window...
 
@ManofOneWay About code.
Time to try AI War campaign.
I'll probably lose in first 10 minutes.
 
sbi
@ManofOneWay Work is been boring for three days in a row. Updating API documentation... It continues to be boring right now, which is why I procrastinate here.
 
why am I cloning gtk+ as we speak? What do I hope to achieve from this?
sigh
 
sbi
6:19 PM
@MihaiTodor Ah, and those saggy eyes are from eating to much, then?
 
@MihaiTodor it's a glorified notepad, and this machine is quite good
 
@sbi writes API documentation. A novel idea; it can't last
 
@sbi Sounds boring
 
@sbi Eating too much here? No way. The Dutch cuisine encourages you to not eat at all :))
@MooingDuck notepad.exe? :D
 
sbi
@TomW Unfortunately, at every job I had done in the last 15 years, they discovered very quickly that I am not bad at writing docs. :( So this has already been lasting longer than many of you guys are into programming.
 
Ell
6:24 PM
I would love to write api documentation (no sarcasm)
 
@Ell Even if it's not your code? :)
 
@sbi Honestly, that's your own fault.
 
Ell
@MihaiTodor yeah :L
 
sbi
@ManofOneWay I wouldn't mind so much if I was writing a new doc. But I have a list of changes developers compiled and need to massage them into an existing document. Also, it seems everybody here but me is too stupid to employ paragraph styles for formatting, so I have to correct a lot of "Code KeyWord +italic" formatting shit in the doc. I hate that. Especially since I have explained how to properly do this what seems a million times...
@MihaiTodor Is that so?
 
git.gnome.org y u no go faster
 
6:27 PM
@sbi Join me for lunch at the TU Delft cantina and you'll see what I mean...
 
@MihaiTodor lies. I know of at least three delicious items of Dutch cuisine
IMO, anyway
 
@sbi Since you're the only one capable of writing it, you should demand a higher salary ;)
 
@Drise How do you not use an operating system?
 
@TomW I'll take your word for it, but my experience says otherwise.
 
sbi
@Ell If you like doing this, you might find it hard to find a job in a setting that isn't a monster like IBM and the like and pays more than $2.50/hr, but once you have found such, since you can read code, you have good chances to become the hero of all devs. This company here has hired a tester last year, and she took about 3 month to be everybody's darling — despite the fact that hers should be the most hated job. But she produces incredible good bug reports, and the devs love her for it.
 
6:29 PM
none should be considered a source of nutrition
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, openly being good at something carries the risk of earning you such statements: "It's your own fault!" Damn, I actually knew this.
 
Hi guys! Question out of curiosity, maybe somebody has the link: I remember reading an answer on the main page a few days ago where somebody posted a link to a "check your computer knowledge" matrix. It was just this webpage which had a list of things that things that you can possibly know, along with what level (beginner-advanced) that kind of knowledge was. Sorry if this is a silly question, but maybe one of you can provide me the link.
 
@sbi Yeah, I figured you knew this, you being old and all.
 
@sbi Have you ever worked at a company like IBM?
 
Ell
@sbi oh thats cool :) I still have never looked into "testing" though. I have many areas which I need to learn. I don't understand how Unit Tests can possibly work? What is the point in going assert(add(1, 2) == 3)) when the test is implemented in the same way as the code itsself?
 
6:31 PM
@NicoBellic the Programmer Competency Matrix
 
sbi
@MihaiTodor Are you trying to convince me that a national cuisine is bad based on some university's cantina? Please tell me you aren't serious!
 
@DeadMG YES! Thank you.
 
Ha for the life of me I couldn't find it today.
 
6:32 PM
@sbi if you've been in the business for 15 years and aren't a manager yet, you must be competent
like woah.
 
@Ell usually wouldn't it be assert(add(1,2)==3)?
 
Ell
@MooingDuck err yes of course... I knew that :P
 
sbi
@FredOverflow No, I avoided big monster companies like the plague. I like small companies, with flat hierarchies. I like to be able to walk into the boss' room, tell him "you fucked this up", and expect him to look at me, say sorry, and we both move on. You rarely get this at small companies, but I doubt you will ever get it in an international company's deeply hierarchical system.
@ManofOneWay He! You have much to learn yet.
@Ell Unit tests are done by the developers. Our tester does tests from a user's POV. Well, she scripts a lot and such, but as a rule, she rarely looks at code. She does not want a developer's POV on an app.
 
Ell
@sbi ohh that kind of testing, right
 
@DeadMG On which level do you consider yourself to be in those different areas? =)
 
sbi
6:38 PM
@TomW Are you trying to suck up to me? I guess it just means I am bad at managing. Also, I like to actually write code, rather than discuss writing code. (The only thing I like as much as writing code is teaching to write good code.)
 
@DeadMG I'm level 2 on most areas. Level 3 on some.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Same here.
having a tad of trouble because the level 3 descriptions are summaries rather than detailed
so some of them, not sure if qualified
 
Heh, no. I'm just assuming that since you haven't been promoted out of the way, you haven't started ruining people's projects yet. Some people outrun their ability to become a better programmer in a couple of years and - ta da - are made a manager
 
and some of it is a bit out of date
 
some people who've been writing code since before they went to secondary school are already incompetent by the time they reach the workplace
 
6:40 PM
for example, in source control, you must have used VSS, CVS, and SVN to qualify for level 3
which I probably never will
 
@sbi How about discussing about teaching to write good code? ;)
 
Yeah, it's sometimes arbitrary.
Like level 3 means there's a license header at the top of your file for code organization.
 
hmmm
 
sbi
@FredOverflow I like that, too. (I think we have discussed teaching here quite often, actually.)
 
communication...
 
Ell
6:41 PM
I have never used svn, only ever used git/mercurial
 
I probably shouldn't rank myself very highly for communication
 
sbi
BTW, @Fred, what happened to your avatar?
 
@sbi I didn't like to look at my face while chatting anymore.
 
sbi
@FredOverflow You're the second who recently switched away from a pic of himself to something abstract. Is that coincidence?
 
I don't know. Who was the other guy?
 
6:43 PM
What file is the ASSERT macro in?
 
@MooingDuck cassert
 
@FredOverflow uppercase
 
sbi
@FredOverflow awoodland
 
@sbi Is his picture of a robot the old or the new picture? ;)
@MooingDuck What?
 
sbi
@FredOverflow CASSERT!
 
6:44 PM
@FredOverflow The Windows macro ASSERT
 
@MooingDuck Oh, I didn't know that existed, sorry.
 
sbi
@MooingDuck A Windows macro, huh. Well, lemme guess... — have you tried <windows.h>? Last time I looked, there was some useful (for Windows programming, that is) stuff in there.
 
Ell
on average I am level 1 in most of those things, some 2's
 
@FredOverflow hmm, MSDN says _ASSERT. I cannot find any evidence of an ASSERT macro. I hate my coworkers sometimes.
@sbi I tried that, no go.
 
cow-workers
 
6:47 PM
half the code in this file is #ifdef _AFXDLL, and those sections do not compile
aha! Got it! I have to include "afxwin.h" before I include that file.
 
sbi
@Ell Don't put too much weight into such tests. I had seen this one a while ago, and found it strange. Why would experience in using s DVCS be considered a higher-rated skill than experience in a non-distributed one? (I have used both.) And when was the last time anyone had written their own sorting algorithm? And while I know my way around in compiled/disassembled code, and have wielded a soldering iron against CPUs, I have little knowledge of JIT compilation. Why lump this together??
So a level 5 coder is distinguished by his files having a license header? Haha! And a file summary? I learned to do that in Programming 101.
This is all very dubious, IYAM. It's strongly correlating with current trends that will be outdated in half a decade, and strongly correlating with the personal preferences of the people who designed this test.
 
@sbi Strange, cause I never wrote file summaries.
 
Ell
do people actually have license headers for every single file?
 
Only the really old ones of ours do
I think it was a standard at one time but nobody's bothered to enforce it since
 
sbi
@DeadMG Shrug. My professor back then demanded it. Later I worked in projects with thousands of files, where I understood why he wanted us to do it. In between, I was just too lazy to shed the habit. :)
 
6:54 PM
the code is never shared with anybody
 
Ell
because isn't it much better to just say "all these files have the license in license.txt"?
 
@Ell yes
 
Can't you just have a license.txt and include that from every other file? :)
 
@sbi I guess that as long as I only have relatively small files, and they always mirror the code structure, it's kinda obvious what they do and they don't really need summarizing.
 
sbi
@Ell Depends on the company, really. This one here does not require this. Others I worked for did. Shrug. So you make yourself a template and create all new files as copies of that.
 
Ell
6:55 PM
yeah
 
sbi
@DeadMG Until you have a couple of thousands of such small files, the oldest ones a decade old, and the code structure having undergone so many changes, nobody has managed to keep up counting. And, remember, while very few small projects keep around long enough to become such monsters, all those monsters started out as (several of) such small projects.
 
@sbi Definitely. I can well imagine that if I were to scale up, I'd probably need a lot more in the way of documentation and stuff.
 
"Organically grown".
 
I work on a project that has a few fortran files left over with comments dated 1972
 

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