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6:00 PM
@Mysticial after the election
 
@Flexo Couldn't live with the shame?
 
user784668
@rubenvb lol
 
@rubenvb lol no - I figured doing it mid-election would be a bad idea though
 
user784668
@Flexo awoodland > Flexo
 
Flexo > awoodland. Futurama references ftw!
 
6:02 PM
0
A: Virtual Methods or Function Pointers

DeadMGThe primary problem with Approach 2 is that it simply doesn't scale. Consider the equivalent for 100 functions: class MahClass { // 100 pointers of various types public: MahClass() { // set all 100 pointers } MahClass(const MahClass& other) { // copy all 100 function poin...

 
@Fanael Classic futurama > all the things
 
@JimNorton I see that you are a perfect fit for this room.
 
@StackedCrooked Thanks! How so?
 
@JimNorton I'm just mercilessly worshipping pedantry. Says it all.
 
I'm trying my hardest to fit in. :-)
@StackedCrooked LOL yeah I thought you'd all like that.
 
@DeadMG Thanks Dead. BTW, feeling any better today?
 
not really
 
1 Billion USD for COD3 after 16 days? HOLY SHIT!
 
What is COD3?
 
@Flexo not that I saw
 
6:06 PM
Yeah, as I said before, they could pretty much sell an "Official Call of Duty Dog Turd" and make millions.
 
@TonyTheLion It's not actually that impressive.
Blizzard is still the bigger half of Activision/Blizzard
 
@StackedCrooked Call of Duty 3, although Tony's actually refering to Modern Warfare 3 in this case.
@DeadMG MW3 is still the fastest selling game in history.
 
@DeadMG how does that make it not impressive?
 
lol, 1 BILLION USD in 16 days is impressive, even if you're generally hard to impress, only if you can do better, can you be unimpressed :P
 
And comparing it to the monthly income of the world's most popular MMORPG isn't exactly fair.
It's like saying "oh, you're good, but you're not the best, more like the second best. I'm unimpressed".
 
6:08 PM
true
 
@DeadMG Sorry to hear that.
 
@jalf Because they're still struggling to survive, even posting that profit.
 
@DeadMG Struggling?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Everything is the fastest selling, biggest profit everything in history. It's called "inflation".
 
@DeadMG I mean MW2 was the fastest selling game until BO beat it, then MW3 beat it again.
 
6:10 PM
How does one change their name on SO? I'm thinking about not using my real name...
 
I wondered, what does it take to impress you @DeadMG ?
 
@EtiennedeMartel As I said, inflation in the size of the market.
 
@TonyTheLion I'm starting to wonder if he's just trying to have a different opinion.
 
@JimNorton bit late, now that everyone knows it already?
@EtiennedeMartel being different eh?
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah but only in this room?
 
6:11 PM
@TonyTheLion Yep. It's like fake cynicism.
 
@TonyTheLion You'd have to start with a fact that has meaning- for example, accounting for the size of the market and inflation before giving out a raw number.
 
@DeadMG you think I know all these things?
 
@TonyTheLion If you don't have something with meaning, why just spew something that has none instead? It's just as meaningless as saying nothing.
you want to know something that impresses me? People who make new products and take creative risks.
not "Let's whore the same game for nine years in a row" Call of Duty
 
and you think I honestly give two shits? I just read that article that @EtiennedeMartel posted and found that number impressive, that's the only reason I posted it. I wanted to share.
 
the only thing impressive about their sales is how badly it reflects on gamers as a market that they still buy that crap
 
6:13 PM
@DeadMG did you buy it?
 
no
 
Damn, @DeadMG is so much of a snob, I'm starting to wonder if he's not secretly French.
 
wouldn't be caught dead with a copy of MW3
 
@Cicada I think we all immediately thought about the same particular person in this room :D
 
@DeadMG I'm still free to spew anything I like, whether you like or agree to it or not
 
Ell
6:13 PM
How about world at war?
 
MW3 is a competent shooter, nothing more. BF3 is superior.
 
@TonyTheLion Of course you are. I never said you can't, or even that you shouldn't. I only said that it has no meaning, and implicitly, cannot be impressive.
 
@EtiennedeMartel lol, if you have to tell by his accent, then no, but who knows :P
@DeadMG oh I see.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I wouldn't really say that.
 
@EtiennedeMartel No he's being a snob so that we can look down on him for being a snob. He's secretly sacrificing himself so that we can feel better about ourselves.
 
6:15 PM
shitty netcode, poor weapon balance, full of hackers- just to begin with
 
@DeadMG An average AAA is incredibly expensive to make. Why risk so much money making new stuff when you can just give the players what they want?
(I do not support that way of thinking, by the way)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Your thought is based on a faulty premise: that anyone should make AAA games.
they are going the way of the dodo, and good riddance
 
@DeadMG Hm?
 
@DeadMG AAA games?
what are those?
 
In what pocket dimension are you living?
@JimNorton High budget titles.
 
6:18 PM
@EtiennedeMartel The one where every MMO has to go F2P, and AAA devs are going under like water voles drinking from a crocodile infested river.
the only difference between WoW and every other MMO, and CoD and every other AAA, is just that it's going to take them longer to fall.
 
@DeadMG What is meant by F2P?
 
Ell
@JimNorton free to play
 
@DeadMG Which AAA devs are you refering to?
 
@JimNorton Free to play.
@EtiennedeMartel Well, of course, most recently, the Kingdoms of Amalur guys went under
the LA Noire guys went under
although I admit those probably aren't good examples, it's just off the top of my head and I don't really keep a list
 
@DeadMG "The way of the Passenger Pigeon" would perhaps be more fitting. Because they were once very common and still died out.
 
6:21 PM
@DeadMG 38 Studios? That was simply bad management. That, and developping an MMO this day is suicidal.
 
What do you all think of id?
err iD?
 
id software?
 
@JimNorton They're a complete has-been.
 
@JimNorton they've lost it. Dull as dishwater now
 
@DeadMG Max Payne is from the guys that made LA Noire
was only recently released
 
6:21 PM
they made Doom, and then Quake, and then nothing of any note or interest since then
 
@StackedCrooked Yes.
 
@TonyTheLion Uh, no it isn't. It's from the same publisher. Not developer.
 
@JimNorton They make great tech demos, but they lack the creative talent to make proper games.
 
@Flexo Is there engine not being used much anymore?
 
@JimNorton I don't have an opinion. Don't know much about the company.
 
6:22 PM
@EtiennedeMartel It seems like they make most money from licensing their game engine tech.
 
@JimNorton no idea, but they used to push the boundaries
 
@Flexo True that.
 
@DeadMG oh, isn't the publisher also the company that developed it?
 
@TonyTheLion No.
developers and publishers are quite different things.
 
So Rockstar Games is the publishing company?
 
6:24 PM
@MooingDuck So you could make Singletons more effective by putting the vtable into the instance itself!
 
@TonyTheLion They also happen to own the developers of MP3. But that's coincidental. They didn't own the devs of LA Noire, who went bust.
 
@DeadMG And it was their first game. Damn, AAA development is very risky, come to think of it.
38 studios also bombed after releasing their first game.
 
@Mysticial You mean it subtracts the size from the stack pointer, right? ;) At least on architectures where the stack grows downwards.
 
I'm starting to see a pattern here.
 
@DeadMG that sucks, LA Noire was awesome
 
6:26 PM
@FredOverflow Yeah. They're the same performance-wise.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I wouldn't really put it that way. They bombed because they were trying to do an MMO and develop an AA game.
 
@FredOverflow that's just adding a negative number though :P
 
@EtiennedeMartel I've got no problems with Team Bondi going out. There were many rumours that they treated their workers like shit.
the point is, there's no reason for any sane person to go AAA development these days- it costs far too much and only the very biggest companies get the big payoffs
 
I just had someone ask me what a meme is. LOL
 
@DeadMG Actually, Amalur was developped by a different studio altogether (Big Huge Games), and that studio was bought by 38 before the game was released.
 
6:27 PM
@Flexo But subtracting x and adding -x affects the flags differently, or does it not?
 
So, 38 was really working on a MMO. Which is a suicidal enterprise if you ask me.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Eh. F2P MMOs have been successful recently.
stuff like LOTRO has been doing quite well under the F2P model
 
Ell
oh fudge. please bin instantly
 
@Ell Thanks for the PW
 
Ell
nownownownownownownownow
 
6:29 PM
edit it out
Need to request deletion by moderator.
 
@TonyTheLion What is a meme?
 
people can still see it there, you know
 
@FredOverflow well, google has answers :P
 
@FredOverflow It's Flemish dialect for grandmother.
 
@DeadMG F2P is the only way to avoid WoW's wrath, it seems.
 
6:30 PM
@Ell again? really?
 
@TonyTheLion When I google meme, I get the german Wikipedia article for "Internet Phenomenon". Is that it?
 
@EtiennedeMartel I wouldn't put it that way. Their subscriber numbers are falling too.
 
they will have to go F2P eventually, just later than everybody else because they started with a shit ton of them.
 
@FredOverflow yes
 
6:31 PM
@EtiennedeMartel hahah lol
 
I hope Guild Wars 2 isn't going to be F2P, P2W.
 
@DeadMG You make it sound like there's a mass exodus of players.
 
I don't understand all this Internet culture. I think people are taking the Internet way too seriously. Or not serious enough? Something like that.
 
@FredOverflow the internet culture is the biggest joke there is :P I don't take it seriously at all.
 
@rubenvb Best is F2P, but pay for skins and other cosmetic stuff. Then attention whores can get stuff to showoff the fact that they have a lot of money to waste, while others are not bothered by it.
 
6:32 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, like Portal 2 does it. I'm fine with that.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, they are down 3 million subscribers from their peak.
 
@DeadMG over how many years?
 
@DeadMG Their peak... around Cataclysm's release?
So, you're actually comparing now to the time where a huge amount of new content pushed players to reactivate their account?
 
Cataclysm's release wasn't the high point
 
They had around 11 million players, I think.
 
6:34 PM
they were up to 13 earlier
 
Well, well.
But, wait, so there's 10 million players now?
 
yeah
 
Exactly the same as 18 months ago?
 
oh, my mistake, 12 million andthey've lost 2 million subs
 
I'd say it's pretty stable.
 
6:35 PM
@EtiennedeMartel No, four years ago
 
That first peak was Wrath of the Lich King. That second one was Cataclysm. Again' I see a pattern emerge.
Still, not too bad for a 7 year old game.
 
they've fallen a lot further now than between Wotlk and Cata
 
There's more competition now. Biggest of which is Aion.
 
which has shed nearly half it's subs in the last three years too, according to the handy-dandy graph
 
Hmm, it seems like everything's dropping.
 
6:39 PM
indeed
 
We are living in interesting times!
 
@TonyTheLion I don't even see the point of being on Facebook and Twitter and stuff.
 
for the stuff like Lineage, you could reasonably argue that it's subs jumped ship to WoW or something like that
 
WoW is one of the better MMOs, but still crappy.
 
but even when you take into account SWTOR, the total number of subs is down ~1.5-2 million in the last three years
 
6:40 PM
They made it bit less grindy in Cataclysm, but it's still too grindy.
 
@DeadMG SWTOR was incredibly badly handled.
 
oh, I agree, and their 400k sub drop seems to respect that
 
@CatPlusPlus That's the problem with subscription-based games: a non-grindy MMO is not addictive enough.
 
the truth is, IMO
 
@rubenvb No, it'll be the same as Guild Wars, pay once play forever.
 
6:41 PM
now that you can buy a new $15 indie game with some fresh new gameplay every month
 
I'm fairly excited about GW2.
 
how can paying $15 a month for the same old same old compare?
 
@CatPlusPlus that does not exclude P2W (pay to win)
 
@rubenvb I wouldn't worry about that.
 
@FredOverflow I do FB, but not Twitter
 
6:41 PM
Guild Wars 1 was awesomely great. Words fail to describe it.
 
not to mention
if you paid $180 a year for WoW
 
@DeadMG As long as the content comes in.
 
all you'd have to do is save $90 to spend at the Steam twice-annually sale
you could get a shitload of content there for that price
 
@TonyTheLion It's not water.
 
6:44 PM
But, I've been thinking about it, and it's now possible for an indie developper to release an unfinished game for a very low (or even null) cost, and then use the income to produce more content.
 
@DeadMG WTF does "Oral Rehydration Solution" mean, other than Water?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Kickstarting things seems to be undeniably popular these days.
@TonyTheLion It's water with essential salts and other things added.
which makes it more hydrating than pure water
 
@DeadMG Yeah, it gives you the minimum required to ship an engine and some assets.
 
If you don't spend it all on Kickstarter rewards.
 
@DeadMG still water, but with something added, they renamed it in the name of advertising
 
6:45 PM
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, but that's another problem.
 
@TonyTheLion That something is pretty medically significant.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, knowing what the hell you're doing.
 
@DeadMG that doesn't make any less of the fact that it is essentially water
 
I could call sulfuric acid "Water, but with some sulphur compound added", but you'd want to be pretty fuckin sure if you were buying acid or not.
 
Many people don't.
 
6:46 PM
@TonyTheLion It's only "essentially" water if it has "essentially" the same effect.
which it does not.
 
Pepsi is essentially water with sugar.
 
@DeadMG are you just out to say something different to whatever anyone says, cause that sure feels like it
 
@CatPlusPlus Aspartame. Sugar is for the weak.
 
And CO2.
 
@TonyTheLion I usually do
 
6:47 PM
lol
 
@TonyTheLion No, I'm saying that you're blanketly assuming that it's basically just water because it happens to be some proportion water.
and there are 9999999 things which are important besides the fact that it is some proportion water.
Chicken is like, 70% water or whatever, should we start labelling that water?
or human transplant organ, 80% water. No probs, guys, we'll just turn on a tap instead of giving you a liver.
 
well my assumption about the purity of the water may be wrong, but it doesn't take away the fact that it has water inside it, and looks like water from the picture. I did not read the fucking contents of the bottle. God damn, you take the Pedantry think overly serious, IMHO
 
@TonyTheLion Well, that was the point that I was making, that your assumption was wrong and in fact it is significantly different from water.
 
@DeadMG Grrrrrrrr
 
6:50 PM
I wonder if I'll become more intelligent by drinking @DeadMG.
 
one wonders...
 
"@DeadMG in a bottle! Puppy flavored!"
 
Yo momma contains more water than the oceans.
 
Pure 100% water is toxic, btw
If you drink that, your veins will absorb it all and burst.
 
What.
 
6:52 PM
Dihydrogen monoxide is bad for you.
 
Osmosis
Why do you think de-whaterchamacallit water bottles say= "don't drink"?
 
[citation needed]
Distilled water is not healthy to drink, because it flushes good minerals out of your system.
But lol bursting veins.
 
You drink it and BOOM!
Suddenly you're in a bunch of different places all at once.
 
you'll have a hard time drinking me
I'm not very soluble
 
6:58 PM
"You're gonna have a bad time".
 
Quick Google suggests injecting water in veins might cause them to burst, which makes a hell lot more sense than them doing that when drinking water.
ITT I fail at English.
 
euh, who in their right mind injects water into their veins?
 
Water junkies. They're, like, so high, like, man.
 
@TonyTheLion Those who want their veins to be well hydrated.
 
oh gawd
 
I want to search with a scientific search engine (Web of Knowledge), but I can't seem to ge the key words right. I think no one ever thought of testing the toxicity of pure H20...
 
It's called distilled water.
 
@CatPlusPlus that is far from 100% H20
Is there a biology/medical SE site?
 
Ell
@rubenvb there is biology I believe
 
Maybe chemistry is a better fit.
 
7:05 PM
There's water intoxication/overhydration, but I seriously doubt it causes veins to burst.
 
@CatPlusPlus on second thought, make that cells that burst.
 
That makes more sense, yes.
 
internal bleeding caused by 100% pure water wouldn't surprise me
But I have a rich imagination.
 
My name is Imagination. Rich Imagination.
 
don't forget blood oxygen that will decide to dissolve in the fresh new supply of extremely low entropy solution...
 
7:10 PM
enum { Scalar, Aggregate }; // What would be a good name for this enum?
 
Ell
hmmm
 
I'm looking for a name that denotes the compositeness or leafness of an object.
 
@StackedCrooked stupid, cause you've got is_scalar and is_aggregate or they're very writable.
 
@rubenvb What do you think of Composisity?
 
@StackedCrooked I'm saying you don't need an enum at all.
0
Q: Is pure (100 scientific %) water toxic to living organisms?

rubenvbI know about the effects and myths about drinking distilled and/or deionized water. I'm not asking about such substances. I wonder if a semi-immediate effect of drinking, say 1L pure 100% H2O is deadly or harmful. My intuition says yes: either the reverse osmosis effect also present in distille...

The problem is that 100 scientific pure water would be a bitch to drink
 
7:13 PM
@StackedCrooked Steve.
 
Ell
sounds like skeptics.se
 
@Ell It's a valid scientific question.
 
@CatPlusPlus Perhaps that name is a bit too common.
 
@StackedCrooked Bob.
 
@StackedCrooked Then Jim.
You can then refer to it as Jimnum.
 
Ell
7:14 PM
@rubenvb I know - people ask those on skeptics don't they? I don't actually know what its for just sounds like a good fit
 
Skeptics is for the rest of us to make fun of them.
 
@Ell but they get stupid answers most likely. I want the science to back it up.
 
@StackedCrooked bool is_scalar?
 
WOw, I want to be able to close questions on biology.stackexchange.com already
0
Q: Why mother nature didn't made us aware of our lizard brain?

Sylvain PratIn many personal improvement books I've read, people make a distinction between 2 parts of our brain: the logical brain, dealing with logic, judgement, thinking; what makes Humans different than Animals the lizard brain inherited from our ancestors, dealing with emotions and instincts, which ta...

 
7:18 PM
damn. Computer rebooting while virus scanning. Not a good sign. Safe mode scan runnin...
 
@StackedCrooked some scalars are aggregates (arrays of other scalars)
 
@MooingDuck I'm actually looking for a template argument name that denotes whether a tree node has children or not.
So I'm not talking about scalar/aggregate as the terms defined in the C++ standard.
 
@rubenvb I discovered that when I run Spyware S&D TeaTimer on WinXP on my macbook pro, it causes a bluescreen within seconds. And TeaTimer starts on Windows startup by default. >.<
 
What does "scientific %" mean?
@StackedCrooked NodeKind.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I think he means literally 100%, not rounded. Not "almost"
 
7:24 PM
NodeArity.
 
@StackedCrooked oh. bool can_have_children;
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I had considered NodeType. NodeKind also sounds good.
 
Ell
NodeType - Leaf, Stem, Root, Branch orr whatever they are called
 
Cardinality.
 
I have also thought of compositeness and compositity.
 
7:27 PM
@MooingDuck Oh. Well, I doubt three loose atoms of something else in there will make a difference. :P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hm, interesting!
 
@StackedCrooked Gosh. Those sound awful.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Does composititty sound better?
 
But it has titty :(
 
7:28 PM
lol
 
@StackedCrooked Working on Kyrostat?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yep :)
More like creating a mess.
 
Yeah, I really should get on that. But I think we'll go with your idea.
 
I got a minimalistic proof of concept.
@EtiennedeMartel At a previous job I had to develop a C++ wrapper library above the WinAPI. Since we both had strong and different opinions on what the ideal design should be it ended up being a stressful task :D
In the end the other guy won because I backed off.
 
You're a wuss.
 
7:41 PM
We don't want wealkings on the team.
 
I truly am and I don't that like part of myself.
 
We want people who can't work with others.
 
Yeah. Be a jerk or GTFO.
 
Jerks are strong! And alone, but that's beside the point.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, the other guy was extremely persistent. The strategy basically was to keep arguing until the other party gave up.
 
7:43 PM
@StackedCrooked You should have dumped cyanide in his lunch.
Dead people can't be right, by definition.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Apart from that he was a cool guy.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Exactly! Just look at the puppy.
 
@StackedCrooked He can't be cool, he was your enemy!
@RMartinhoFernandes Smooth.
 
Ell
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU >:( Just filled an entire form in block capitals and the last section in normal. Argh why do they teach us to write properly yet ask us to write improperly. grrr.
 
@Ell BLOCK CAPITALS?
 
Ell
7:46 PM
yeah :(
 
I always thought that saying creepy stuff in block capitals made it even more creepy.
Like, "I'm watching you" vs "I'M WATCHING YOU"
 
Ell
yeah it does :L
 
"I like robots" vs "I LIKE ROBOTS".
Damn, this is troubling. I think I'll need to drink more beer than usual tonight.
 
That does look creepy.
 

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