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2:00 PM
@Neil It's platform-specific.
 
but "unsigned int" is always 32 bits
 
@mrazza But so are ints
 
@Neil no.
@Neil int is always 32. long is 64.
 
mrazza: "long int" is 32-bits, "long long int" is 64-bits
 
@mrazza That's traditionally true, but there are no guarantees of this
 
2:01 PM
@David Correct - obviously compiler specific.
 
An int could theoretically be 1 byte in size
 
@Neil Yeah? But now you're just being pedantic.
 
when I write code I'm always tempted to defined types like "u8", "u16", "u32", "u64" and "s8", "s16", "s32", and "s64" explicitly just to avoid all this mess
but then everyone complains I'm just being difficult
 
Hahahahaha.
Well, in a surprising number of situations that's actually a good idea.
 
@mrazza There's quite a difference between 4 and sizeof(int) in a program
 
sbi
2:03 PM
Anyone in need of a new avatar? This is a baby platypus. (via Christie Yant)
 
I know there is a header (I forget its name) that actually defines those types
 
morning
 
but I don't like the names it gives them. "_t" is so ugly.
 
@sbi I've got one, ape man!
Meet mouse-cat
 
@sbi, that platy's beak looks like my toenail
 
2:03 PM
@sbi I'm gonna keep my frowny dude face.
 
@David long is 64 bits on Linux
 
@Neil No it can't. int is defined to have at least sixteen useful bits.
 
@David That's a shame. Perhaps you should use a different language then? It's hard to break away from standard lib symantics.
 
mrazza: I'm a C# guy 90% of the time actually
which makes C++ all the more painful
 
@David Same.
 
2:04 PM
@DeadMG yes it can, a byte could have sixteen bits
 
@David: heh, I actually find the "size" part way uglier (and often contextually wrong) than the "_t" part. ^^
 
if someone would write a C#-to-C++ compiler I would die a happy man, being able to write optimisesd native code without touching any icky and ugly syntax and typenames
 
@ecatmur "could have", but in reality, does not.
 
@David that's kinda pointless
 
@David It wouldn't be able to do anything.
 
2:05 PM
@DeadMG exactly. lol
 
@DeadMG depends on the platform
 
does C++11 fix the struct tag issue?
 
no c#-to-c++ compiler can change the fact that C# requires garbage collection, that it requires that all members be a reference, etc.
 
@David don't think so; correct me if I'm wrong
 
now, an octet is always 8 bits...
 
2:05 PM
@DeadMG You should correct this problem then: stackoverflow.com/questions/9652433/size-of-1-int-in-c
 
@ecatmur There are no significant platforms with non-8-bit bytes.
 
DeagMG: you're right, I should rephrase
 
@DeadMG structs aren't reference
 
I want to use C# syntax against the C++ backend
I appreciate I'll have to do memory management myself
 
int is probably a word in length, or 4 bytes, but you have no guarantees
 
2:06 PM
but I swear, if I have to put a semicolon after the end of a class definition again, I'll stab Bjarne in the face with a spork
 
@Neil What's the problem with it?
@David Why? You'd be throwing away the language's best features.
 
@DeadMG, like what?
 
@David Uh, templates, for one.
 
@DeadMG Crap. Why aren't you ever on when everyone is trying to tell me the opposite?
 
extend C# generics syntax to support C++'s templates
 
2:07 PM
that typename is annoying, but it serves a purpose- and that purpose is necessary for many useful generic things.
@David Congrats! You've re-invented typename.
@Neil I am on often.
 
okay, rephrase attempt #2:
where C# and C++ share language features, use the C# syntax for that feature
 
@DeadMG I assume it wasn't you that told me the contrary though.
You are offline sometimes, right?
 
otherwise, retain the C++ feature, but tidy up the tynax
 
@Neil Yes, indeed I am.
 
2:09 PM
@ecatmur Is not a significant platform.
 
@DeadMG, you can still get semi-recent builds of Linux for PDP-10, so it's relevant enough
and I know of companies still running PDP-11
 
@David Not really. Nobody would be caught dead using hardware from 1968.
you "know of" them, that does not make it significant whatsoever.
 
hmm, y'know how a "byte" is not necessarily 8-bits
what's the C++ type that corresponds to a "byte that might not necessarily be 8-bits"?
 
char, I believe.
but it might not be
 
but a char is for a character element
 
2:13 PM
char also has roles in the sizing of things
 
a computer might enforce Unicode UCS-2 so a char is 16-bits
 
for example, sizeof(T) is always in terms of the size of char.
so it would be impossible for any machine to express the size of any type that was not a round number of char long
 
CHAR_BIT tells you how many bits are in a byte (i.e. a char)
 
making it impractical to make char anything less than the shortest byte you can
not to mention that any platform old enough to have a non-8-bit byte would not be new enough to have heard of UCS-2
 
@David: char and unsigned char I think. Which probably should have been named differently, given that char is commonly used for many other things such as RGB color components, etc.
 
2:15 PM
they would be using ECBDIC or ASCII
 
binary-coded decimal never made much sense to me
sure, it makes implementing "schoolbook" algorithms for math easier
but it drastically reduces data processing throughput
 
Uh
 
okay, I just realised I demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of ECBDIC
 
Well yes precisely
 
please disregard what I wrote
 
2:17 PM
Thanks
 
damn
suddenly had this feeling that I was in the middle of something, but I forgot what that something was
 
@david BCD is very nice when dealing with electronics
 
you were in the middle of forgetting what you were doing
 
@DeadMG getting a drink?
 
nah
writing more of my specification for Wide
 
2:22 PM
@DeadMG ಠ_ಠ
 
@DeadMG Masturbating?
 
"Wide"?
 
@David A programming language he's designing.
 
but C++ is perfect
God himself could not create C++
C++ created God
 
C++ is a huge mess.
We use it because we don't have any better alternative in the application domain where C++ is adequate.
 
2:25 PM
C++ is a pile of cock and I intend to replace it
 
sbi
@Cicada Reading your replies to @David just made me laughing out loud, so that the other guy in the room looked at me with an are-you-mad face.
 
@sbi Wait, when you laugh, people think you're mad? Damn, you really are grumpy.
 
@sbi, the ones about BCD?
 
sbi
@David The ones the last of which I my message was a reply to.
 
"well yes precisely", "thanks" ?
 
sbi
2:27 PM
@EtiennedeMartel When everybody is hacking away at their keyboard furiously, someone laughing loudly (and not offering to relay the cause for his amusement) is usually frowned upon.
 
@sbi your coworkers need to stop hacking their keyboards
 
sbi
@David Yeah. Those comments look like she had no idea at all what you were talking about, but management to (somewhat) conceal this behind making all the right noises.
@EtiennedeMartel No need for me to loosen up. I am a lose cannon already.
 
@sbi Alright, fuck this, you guys really need to loosen up.
Reply to the future.
 
sbi
Well, I guess it's time for me to leave and pick up those kids of mine one last time for this summer. I will be watching Germany throw Greece out of the EC tonight with a bunch of kids that will be too small to really appreciate a game, too eager to go to bed, and too tired to make sense of what happens. Envy me.
 
@sbi, oh, I thought Cicada was serious about my BCD statements. but enough of this thread.
 
2:31 PM
football sport, meh
 
@sbi rub gin into their gums, sorted.
 
@David don't be stupid, it's rum you use for that
 
in other news. Why are makefiles (especially automake) so painful?
 
@sbi This is badge-worthy! Cicada: make the grumpy ape laugh out loud
 
@DeadMG Replace it with what? A pile of tits?
 
2:36 PM
@David At the time they were invented they were the most painless solution
 
heh
well I can't argue that as a male, I would much rather have a pile of tits than a pile of cock
 
@FredOverflow tit's on there own would be a bit gruesome. Rather have a flock of buxom wenches
 
@DeadMG, does your "Wide" language have a context-free grammar?
 
@David Of course it does. What am I, insane?
 
or better yet, a regular grammar
 
2:37 PM
Stop showing off
 
I wonder if there are any turing-complete languages with regular grammars
 
This makes no sense
 
@David Nope.
 
There can't be.
 
damn, you detected my troll
 
2:39 PM
@DeadMG You say that because you're an heterosexual male.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Uh, and?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Must we over-trivialize everything?
 
Because of my douche side.
 
hmmm
a small problem occurs to me
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because of your heterosexual douche side.
 
2:40 PM
@DeadMG Well, you can't generalize this to "males". Not every man wants women, you know.
 
@DeadMG a gay male might like a pile of cocks
 
@EtiennedeMartel I absolutely can. The rate of homosexuality is 2%. I think that "98%" is pretty general.
 
@thecoshman Careful with that typo, it's like you're trying to set stuff on fire.
@DeadMG I thought it was more like 10%.
 
nope
 
@DeadMG where the hell did you get that figure from?
you know, 40% of crap is actually shit
 
2:41 PM
my memory?
 
You're not seeing the big picture here. Any male would want piles of cock, because you could sell it for biofuel.
 
but Wikipedia also agrees with me
 
@DeadMG then it's bollocks :P
oh, well if Wikipedia says it, it must be true
 
@thecoshman: of course it must, don't be silly.
 
between my memory and Wikipedia, I'm feeling fairly confident
and you have nothing to back up your argument that it is higher
 
2:42 PM
@Neil too much effort, plus it's illegal to deal with human 'remains'
 
Those numbers are hard to get anyway. I'd assume most gays wouldn't want to talk about it.
 
so I win by default.
 
With discrimination and all.
 
gentlemen, this is a C++ forum, not a <==3 forum
 
@thecoshman Is it really? Black market then baby. Still room for profit.
 
2:43 PM
@David This is not a forum, and we discuss whatever the hell we want.
 
@David this is the Lounge, get the cock in hell used to it
 
@EtiennedeMartel Never more appropriate.
 
I've heard 10% too actually
 
@David You might want to reconsider
 
2:44 PM
Though if we're going to over-trivialize everything, I doubt it's 10.00000000%
 
@DeadMG Never say never, but yeah, I scrambled to post that here because I felt like it was really the best time to do it.
 
what the fuck
 
sorry, wrong image
 
what am I doing here already
 
@Neil Well, technically, it would be great if being gay was trivial. But it's not. Way too many people act like it's a fucking big deal.
 
2:44 PM
@David That's off-topic, David!
 
what's the 'ism' when insulting homosexuals?
@David up arrow to edit
 
@thecoshman We usually use "homophobia" rather than an -ism
 
@EtiennedeMartel It depends on where you live
 
but you could call it sexism
 
sexism is sex, not orientation
 
2:45 PM
@Cicada Yeah, some societies are more open minded than others.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Depends on where you are.
@David Orientation is a part of sex.
since it's, y'know, sexual orientation.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That wasn't my point, but you're right. Gay is the new black.
 
sex is biological and physical, you're thinking of gender
 
@DeadMG that's the one :P though, "that's homophobia" doesn't really work
@DeadMG I thought so
 
pretty sure that homosexual men are still men
right
I'm going to stop wasting my time now
 
2:47 PM
@David joking is ok, but don't push it
 
k
SO's chat deletion makes it easier to self-censor
 
thanks
 
*awkward silence*
 
oh god, I hate that reading mode in word docs
¬_¬ and testing of fire bells
and clearcase
and java
sorry, the rant got the better of me there
 
I think they couldn't have made a worse source repository if they vomited on the keyboard and typed code while wiping it off.
 
2:49 PM
@Neil tell me about it
I honestly do think, just a network drive would provide better source control management then clearcase
 
@thecoshman At least that would be straightforward, right?
 
hmm, how does Clearcase compare to ye ol' punching bag SourceSafe?
 
@Neil have you been inflicted with it as well
 
@thecoshman Yes unfortunately. I try not to remember it, because it causes flashbacks.
 
@David thank fully, I've never used SourceSafe, but Clearcase is total wank. Everything gets in your way
 
2:52 PM
They invented this unnecessarily complicated system of checks and verifications
I used it for a while and I still don't fully understand it
 
in sourcesafe?
 
olol I thought clearcase was a typography thingie
 
that's cleartype
 
No, sourcesafe is hellasimple by comparison
 
I long for a source control, where I can just make changes to a file, with out having first to 'check out'
 
2:53 PM
Sometimes I wish I had a mustache. Then I could tell people "Call me Esteban".
 
thecoshman: git
 
seriously, what the scat eating christ on a mother fucking bear unicyclist is that all about
6
 
and any good IDE will automatically check a file out for you as you begin typing
 
@David lol, you think I use clearcase by choice?
 
@thecoshman Mercurial.
 
2:54 PM
@thecoshman Holy sweet-and-salty rainbow Jesus on a flaming motorcycle.
 
@EtiennedeMartel You forgot the T-Rex.
 
@DeadMG I can but dream
 
how does Mercurial compare to Git?
 
@DeadMG Nah, I prefer Deinonychus myself.
 
much the same to be frank
 
2:55 PM
@David Good question. Anyone know?
 
yeah
 
to be bob, I prefer Hg
 
@David More powerful, more complicated, designed by a guy with a superiority complex larger than @DeadMG.
 
they're basically the same thing, except Git has the user-friendlyness of the wrong end of an automatic shotgun.
2
 
I gave git a go, but couldn't get my head around it, Hg seemed easier to use
 
2:56 PM
I use TFS
should I hide in shame?
 
Yeah git is pretty hard to get started with
Sometimes I'm still unsure of what I'm doing even after years of practice
 
@David What is that? Team foundation crap from microsoft?
 
yeah, it's feature set is very similar to SVN
 
@EtiennedeMartel At least I back up my complex with actual superiority :P
 
TFS2012 introduces distributed "offline" mode, but needs VS2012 for that
 
2:57 PM
SVN is amazing compared to clearcase
 
I use VS2008 as part of my protest against the changes they made to VS2010 and VS2012
 
it actually let's you work! fancy that, working in a company, where you don't spend 90% of your time getting ready to do some real work
 
@David What, like, introducing a bunch of C++11 features in VS2010? And the super-sexy concurrency library?
 
@David Well, at least its non source control parts are alright.
 
it's VS2012 that's balls-awful
VS2010 was a fine upgrade
 
2:58 PM
DeadMG: not, that stuff is great, I just can't stand the new WPF UI
or the forced removal of indented-empty-lines in the text editor
 
@David What? You think VS2008 is superior to VS2010?
 
@thecoshman That's what we were using prior to switching to clearcase. My god, when we finally got back to svn, it was like washing ashore after your ship sank miles away from land.
 
I can't live without that
 
WPF is a piece of awesome
 
VS2010 is superior to VS2008 except for a few retrograde changes that really irked me, and I didn't think it was worth the effort to migrate, so I stayed behind
 
2:59 PM
Awfully complex
But awesome
 
WPF is dead, Microsoft stopped active development of it a year ago
 
@David C++11 features and PPL are absolutely killer reasons to upgrade.
 
@Neil in a sea of those little tiny fish from the Amazon that like to swim up your dangle and drugs that make you pee
 
Are you actually trying to look smart or what
 
@Cicada Bindings are a pain to debug though.
 

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