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20:00
No, a friend's VPS
So I want to keep it low-profile
I have this idea that I can make it neat with a wrapper around io_service based on packaged_tasks and futures.
SFML on a server?
@RMartinhoFernandes What would it do?
Yeah, it needs a bunch of SFML's utils
20:00
It uses void*, that's what's wrong with it.
Stars in the endless void!
I'll only be communicating a few bytes/tick though
It means whoever wrote that has no idea what they're doing.
If you feel like using void*, use C, not C++.
Eh, VS says it can't 'convert from 'const void ' to 'char''
20:02
By the way: my sockets library uses void pointers too.
void* has its uses, but byte buffers is not one of them.
I never understood why so many libs use void * instead of char * to represent raw bytes.
Oh god
I think I've been using it totally wrong
¬_¬
@EtiennedeMartel Because they were written by idiots or by me.
C++ does not do implicit conversions between void* and other pointer types. And you can't cast a pointer to const to a pointer to non-const, either.
20:03
That's probably it, yes.
@CatPlusPlus Oh, right.
@CatPlusPlus this always worked for me:
int foo;
void* bar = &foo;
I'm supposed to use << and >> I think
¬_¬
@EtiennedeMartel So far it's only a vague idea I have. I haven't fleshed it out yet, because I get the feeling future won't be up to the task.
@CatPlusPlus ideone.com/mSorN
It does implicit conversions to void* and void const*, not from them.
20:04
Anyway, I'm not really interested in silly SFML, or its broken sockets functionality, or silly requirements.
:(
You prefer OpenGL, I'm guessing?
@RadekdaknokSlupik Maybe. I haven't used void* in a long, long time.
Wrong question.
I prefer no graphics at all.
but graphics are pretty :D
20:06
using thing = void*;
using const_thing = void const*;
But without graphics it's just a console :(
And whenever you give it to an end-user they start thinking you're hacking their computer
@RMartinhoFernandes But, yeah, it would be cool to represent a socket as a packaged task.
can someone give me an example where it makes a difference whether I do: for(auto& i : _ ) or for(auto&& i : _)
 auto j = i;
 i++;
20:08
Hmm.. According to my server I have infinite FPs
FPS*
is there a way to tell a template-derived class that the parent class will have a specific member? Or do I have to this-> everywhere?
@bamboon Imagine _ is a not really a container, but a maybe a boost::irange.
The iterators don't give references (because there is no underlying storage), only values.
I think.
@AshleyDavies What do you mean, infinite?
If that's not the case with boost::irange, I'm sure there's something out there like that.
@RMartinhoFernandes ok yeah, I imagined something like this.
20:10
#INF1
Division by zero.
Oh, thanks
Reference collapsing is crazy.
@MooingDuck Yes, you need this->.
@RMartinhoFernandes they should fix that.
20:11
@MooingDuck You mean, concepts?
@RMartinhoFernandes oh, I guess that would work. yes
Got Epic.
Welcome to the club.
I'm always the last one. :(
I'm always the one who sucks. :(
20:15
Not surprising, you're a vacuum cleaner.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Sometimes it's the puppy.
@CatPlusPlus is he still making the vacuum sounds?
The puppy is the greatest dog in the world.
2
that's his claim
20:16
The puppy is the greatest puppy in the department of redundancy department.
that's redundant
@CatPlusPlus No, @RMartinhoFernandes is.
You haven't been on Mumble yesterday, have you.
Nope. I was drinking yesterday.
You don't drink every day?
20:18
Is it best to send lots of packets or just one or two with all data in?
@RMartinhoFernandes I only drink with friends. So, no.
Your application packets will be divided anyway.
Oh, drink alcohol.
That's how networking works(TM).
May 4 at 17:45, by DeadMG
drinking just costs money and makes you act stupid
20:19
Sounds a lot easier
Thanks
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yeah, but @DeadMG is a prude.
Thanks all
I'm sorry that I remembered that.
I should code something to restart my brain.
@AshleyDavies No problemo.
@CatPlusPlus Code a robot that's better than @RMartinhoFernandes.
(Trivial.)
I'm continuing working on the spec, so I'll shut up for a moment if you guys don't mind.
20:21
You better work on OSX driver for Springbok.
what the hell is springbok
@CatPlusPlus Fwinnnnn.
@melak47 It's as if Jesus puked in your nose.
However, this, this, and this can get you started.
20:23
@RadekdaknokSlupik Oh fuck no, I won't do it with Cocoa.
@EtiennedeMartel you want to use Carbon?
If you do that, you restrict it to 32 bits IIRC.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Springbok is in C++, not Objective-C.
So, if i have the "Vs11" installed, is it worth uninstalling and snatching the Visual Studio 2012 ?
Hmmmmm.
Yeah, that might be a problem.
@ScarletAmaranth I'm confused.
20:24
I don't think it's that a big problem to use Objective-C solely for the OSX driver (you can provide a C++ interface), is it?
You mean, uninstalling the beta and installing the RC?
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Indeed.
Is it worth going trough the trouble ?
It's your only choice if you want to support 64-bits systems and don't want to use something like Qt. ><
20:27
Yeah, let's get modern.
Wrapped Objective-C it is.
speaking of vs11...when I was moving my d3d11 code to it, I had some weird aligment issues with some of the XNA data types, like XMVECTOR. I somehow resolved them, but now when I try to make it work in vs10 again, I get similar problems
Am i right to assume that MSDNAA will gimmeh' a free Visual Studio 2012 Ultimate soon :P ?
@ScarletAmaranth I'd assume so. Presumably the RC has less bugs than the beta. But you never know.
20:28
I like how Apple's documentation is half documentation, and half advertisement.
@ScarletAmaranth That's what usually happens for me.
@EtiennedeMartel You need to create an NSWindow. You need to subclass NSOpenGLView and do the drawing in drawRect: and use the methods from NSResponder (which NSOpenGLView derives from) to handle events. Then add it to the window's contentView. That's about it.
@RMartinhoFernandes I can't find the 2012 on the msdnaa page yet :(
@RadekdaknokSlupik No, that's not about it.
20:29
How do you ask for a context of a given version?
@RadekdaknokSlupik Alright, thanks.
@RMartinhoFernandes -[NSOpenGLView setOpenGLContext:].
@ScarletAmaranth Well with the RC just having been released, you might have to wait just a little bit longer
The msdnaa is pretty much the only positive impact of my university on my life.
Subclassing window is not really a solution.
Or view, whatever.
20:32
How'd you do it?
Springbok doesn't require you to subclass anything, or provide callbacks, nor it should.
It's for the implementation of the OSX driver.
Well, at least Core, I'll probably do some boilerplate game loop later.
You can't do drawing in drawRect: because drawing happens in game loop.
Which is in user code.
The user has to do for (;;) or while (true) themselves? Just asking.
That would make this difficult indeed.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Ok. I'll trust you. I totally can't read those docs (I'm still digging into the context attributes thingies and can't find it).
what makes this so different from game loops on windows or linux?
@CatPlusPlus Do you provide a swapBuffers function?
I have to.
How are events handled if the user provides their own game loop?
Separate thread?
20:38
No, explicit polling/waiting.
@RadekdaknokSlupik The point is that the user is in control.
I understand.
He makes the decisions, not the library.
well, I'll be darned. recreated my vs10 project, and now the alignment issue is gone
20:39
What is the scope of Springbok? Windowing and input?
while (true) { display.pump_events(); for (auto&& e : window1.events()) { ... } for (auto&& e : window2.events()) { ... } window1.make_current(); /* draw on window1 */ window1.swap_buffers(); window2.make_current(); /* draw on window2 */ window2.swap_buffers(); }
Or something like that.
@EtiennedeMartel Currently undefined. Springbok.Core will be standalone windowing and input only.
Okay.
So you're taking the GLM approach of Core + optional extensions?
Well, more like Boost, really.
Just several projects rolled into one.
Except there's only one ATM. :v
@EtiennedeMartel you should be able to set the current context using -[NSOpenGLContext makeCurrentContext] (with the context being the one from the NSOpenGLView) from the window.make_current() function.
OpenGL commands should work then.
That way, you don't need to override drawRect: and the user is in control.
Still not sure about events though, and making sure that the menu bar and the window controls respond.
@CatPlusPlus is it fine if that window1.make_current(); function is not thread safe?
GL contexts are usually thread-local.
20:50
They should be. OpenGL isn't thread safe, IIRC.
I don't make any guarantees about thread safety.
> Note: A context is current on a per-thread basis. Multiple threads must serialize calls into the same context object.
Straight from the OS X docs.
Hmm, looks like I don't strictly need to use NSOpenGLView.
Something along the lines of: ideone.com/8xLhW (not tested).
@EtiennedeMartel Not strictly, but I haven't ever used anything else. :P
You also need to set up an NSAutoreleasePool somewhere before calling any other Objective-C methods, and you need to call [NSApplication sharedApplication] directly afterwards.
> Cocoa doesn't poll for events as suggested, but instead its main thread goes to sleep. When an event arrives, the OS wakes up the thread and event processing resumes.
Okay, that will be a real pain in the fucking ass if you want to do it in the main thread.
21:09
Just a heads up, we're gonna have a super conductor turned up full blast and pointed at you for the duration of this next test. I'll be honest, we're throwing science at the walls here to see what sticks. No idea what it'll do.
Cave Johnson!
Hell yeah!
@RadekdaknokSlupik you can respond to events from a separate thread and put them in a queue. When the user then polls events, it actually polls them from the queue.
Scancodes are weird.
@RadekdaknokSlupik That's nasty.
21:13
Good cats are hard to find.
There are about 120 keys, give or take several.
There's 255 possibilities in a byte. And yet there are multibyte sequences, three sets, and arrgh.
@RMartinhoFernandes The game loop blocks the main thread, and since Mac OS X doesn't use polling but delegation, I don't see another way to do this.
There's no Insert on numpad, but Insert behaves differently when Numlock is off. :.
Oh, wait.
There is. Nevermind.
There is Insert on numpad.
0.
Yeah, I'm stupid.
But why does it suddenly have to do a multicode sequence, I have no idea.
21:16
Legacy, certainly.
Numlock on:
sc = 52 | vk = 2d | f = (make,e0) <- that's 6-row Insert
sc = 52 | vk = 2d | f = (break,e0)
sc = 52 | vk = 60 | f = (make) <- that's numpad 0
sc = 52 | vk = 60 | f = (break)
Numlock off:
sc = 2a | vk = ff | f = (make,e0) <- what
sc = 52 | vk = 2d | f = (make,e0)
sc = 52 | vk = 2d | f = (break,e0)
sc = 2a | vk = ff | f = (break,e0)
sc = 52 | vk = 2d | f = (make)
sc = 52 | vk = 2d | f = (break)
E0 flag is still on, dammit, why do I need a bogus key in the sequence.
shakes fist
I have a feeling this will break hilariously on a different keyboard.
cough
1
Q: Why does push_back() cause crash within malloc()'ed data?

RookieWhy does this crash? I did find out malloc() doesnt call constructors, so I called them myself manually, but it still crashes, I do not understand why. PS. I know std::vector and new[] exists. Do not tell me to use vectors/new[] as an answer. struct MyStruct { vector<int> list; }; voi...

I'm fucking awesome.
Sounds about right.
is it possible anyhow to "hack" it to make it work without new[] ? just interested... — Rookie 3 mins ago
Any stupid ideas on how to do this?
21:21
Placement new.
Without that
^ Funny lyrics..
@RadekdaknokSlupik whistles
21:22
@Pubby Initialize all members manually outside of the constructor, assuming they are public.
@RadekdaknokSlupik How? With placement new?
Face it: it's impossible.
Wait, I've got it!
You need to call the constructor somehow. There are three ways to do that: an automatic object, a temporary, or a new expression.
Define your own vector and use that instead of std
21:24
@ScarletAmaranth ^
Inside information
@RMartinhoFernandes or a static object!
Or a thread_local object!
@RadekdaknokSlupik Not gonna work there, though.
@Pubby And then what?
Define your own malloc too!
21:27
And the ctors?
You still haven't explained how to call them.
Unless your own vector is somehow magically a POD, you still need to call the ctor.
Your own malloc can just call new[]
Erm.
I thought you couldn't call new[].
5 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Face it: it's impossible.
:(
Magically get the address of the constructor! 8D
malloc, churchoc, hospitaloc
lolloc
malloot is dutch for idiot
trolloc returns base pointer + rand()
malloc is C++ for idiot :Đ
Malloc is worse than PHP. Okay, scratch that.
C with just destructors would already be MUCH better.
21:34
Um, no.
No, like what. Would be even worse?
It'd remove some boilerplate, but wouldn't be that much better.
Okay, slightly better.
All C needs is exceptions and typeof
All C needs is to go away.
21:36
And templates and type inference.
Destructors are way to aggressive, they need professional help. To channel anger and shit.
Type inference but it should be dynamically typed
C has served us well. It needs to sleep now.
C will live for ages
21:38
In 2000 years K&R will be the next religious bible
Well, my girlfriend's mother will live for ages. That isn't necessarily a good thing.
Shift, why you not use e0, but different scancodes for each key.
This is so weird.
Scancodes suck
Everything sucks.
Except Microsoft's vacuum cleaner.
I hear it runs Metro apps, though.
21:40
@DomagojPandža You're being the highlight of our conversation in the mumble :)
@DomagojPandža Could you elaborate on that in mumble chat
There's a conversation I'm not hearing, that cannot stand.
Can I listen to the mumble without installing mumble?
@Pubby Nope.
mumble in the jungle
21:41
Tony is talking!
@CatPlusPlus You're not.
My accent sucks and I suck and I'm shy and meh.
5
oh shush, and just talk :)
21:42
We have an acronym list for a reason.
Which I did.
By the way.
@RadekdaknokSlupik You are a hungry fungus?
I save the day, as usual.
@sehe I'm fucking hungry.
Mushroom-ey.
iChat y u no work.
21:44
Hungry for frungy
@RadekdaknokSlupik Is that compatible with Mumble? 8-)
Mushroom, mushroom.
grammar = meh
nucular bombs
21:45
Mushroom cloud is a cloud that looks like mushroom.
nuclear
lol
I like mushrooms.
> My English is better, I just can't get it over my lips
They are fasty.
My English is butter.
I'm much better at typing than speaking in general.
It's more efficient. Brain-fingers transfer speed >>>> brain-vocal chords transfer speed.
Like a L1 cache versus HDD.
I think too fast, and I have to constantly go back when speaking.
21:48
@sehe I will join you fine gentlemen as soon as I make peace with my geom. culling implementation. Basically, all it has to do is give me the EVS a bit faster. Just a bit faster. So that my Codesoul™ is at rest.
@CatPlusPlus :)
I lose 50 intelligence when speaking
@DomagojPandža :)
Also, my post as the Listener for the Dark Brotherhood of SO has been destroyed by curious bastards.
I must find myself in the void that is Mumble.
I'm a voice spy.
21:50
cat, Y U NO speak ?
I already told you. :<
@DomagojPandža Does that mean you'll be wearing a different persona? Or am I making that up?
My fingers are amazing.
Do you lubricate your fingers?
I'm much more talkative in a written medium.
@DomagojPandža With top-notch butter.
21:53
Use a text-to-speech program then.
@sehe I must decide whether to let people into my inner sanctum. Or show them a world beyond, so they may discern the transmundane.
I'm weird like that.
@DomagojPandža I love the language
We're neat and we're evil.
Facebook community sucks, no matter what you compare it to.
Facebook has a community?
Facebook is a community of uncles and aunties.
21:59
I thought it was comprised mainly of attention whores and stalking wankers who passively earn Zuckerberg money while they're trying to gain access to their ex's newest photographs. Also, Zuckerberg's world domination with hoodies™, flip-flops™ and shit (probably a registered trademark).
Was it Zuckerberg or Suckerberg?

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