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10:00 PM
Liar
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Bad idea.
 
Next thing you know they'll be complaining that the little "M" thing in the corner disappeared and other such nonsense.
 
Not my problem.
 
I only help my close friends, I argue too much with my family when I try to help them with computer stuff
 
10:00 PM
I'll just say they don't need it.
 
And I warn them that everything will be wiped.
Windows activation ain't a problem either.
This magical copy can be installed on as many computers as you want. :P
 
A friend has a problem with his computer. You think: "O, wait, I'll just install Windows 7 on it".
- Now your friend has 30Gb more problems (fortunately, the OS will protect the user from further harm by using all available RAM, effectively preventing any other programs from malfunctioning)
 
@sehe Hey, that's no longer true! Nowadays Windows 7 only uses about half the RAM!
 
10:03 PM
give them a non-gui server edition of some linux distro
 
Next time I'll install Debian with no GUI.
 
that'll keep em busy :P
 
I mean, now that I have three times the RAM I had before.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Half the RAM of what? Because computers come with 4Gb now
@RMartinhoFernandes Bah-dum-tish!
@TonyTheLion Heck, make it headless. Tell them it conserves energy (and they can sell the monitor)
 
10:05 PM
wtf! LOL
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Woot! Look what the cat dragged in
@TonyTheLion That's old
 
hahah
missed it the first time
 
@sehe a fuck it… I didn't want my answer accepted on such a crappy question anyway… :(
:P
 
 
10:07 PM
@RadekdaknokSlupik Cognitive dissonance anyone?
 
@sehe damn you
 
Why, thank you, sir!
 
I want my job title to be "Expert bugmaker".
Yes, that was totally random.
 
Make ALL the bugs
 
10:09 PM
I want to sleep. Tomorrow is mathematics. Boring as hell and I don't understand any of it. xD
 
@Xeo It must mean that the neighbour's washing machine just finished the centrifuge stage and the local powernets are rebalanced?
 
@ScottW I eat them.
Yummy malaria mosquito.
 
ugh
you strange polar-bear
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Break a leg!
 
@sehe I honestly have no idea what these people do to their Windows installations.
 
10:10 PM
@sehe no, that hurts like fuck.
 
They use them.
Big mistake
@RadekdaknokSlupik Experience?
 
I usually only reinstall Windows for upgrading or when the disks die.
 
I use mine all the time, and I rarely have any issues
 
@sehe I use them too.
 
I reinstall my OS every three months or so to remove all the crap and trials and shit.
 
10:11 PM
(shhh. I know, but it is much more fun that way)
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik I take the conservative approach and don't install crap.
 
crap doesn't run well on a computer, it is better off in the toilet
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's my approach
@RadekdaknokSlupik sandboxie.com
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes I honestly have no idea what happened while I was asleep.
 
10:13 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes but sometimes I just want to try out a new editor or something and I download it and after a while move it to the trash if I dislike it. Then all the settings files and caches and shit are still there. 3:
 
Xeo
I had very few problems with Windows before
 
@TonyTheLion But, if it runs well for too long, even there, it should be a cause for concern
 
Isn't there an option to clear the cache?
 
I do use AppZapper sometimes but usually I forget that I have it. :P
 
10:14 PM
difference between us lot and the rest of them is we're not noobs
 
Oh, I've seen that thing.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You could flush it
 
Which deletes all app-related crap.
 
It's like CCleaner for Mac or something, right?
 
I guess so.
 
10:15 PM
is CCleaner any good?
 
I'm not a fan of these "fix-your-computer" things.
 
I'm suspicious
 
Especially registry cleaners.
 
You drag an app into it instead of to the trash, and it'll find all related files for you and trash them.
No no AppZapper is per app, not for your whole system.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Me neither. I still only trust Spyware S&D, although it might have become a bit oldish
 
Xeo
10:15 PM
@ScottW Second that.
 
the registry is Window's hellhole
 
It's like Configuration Panel —> Software.
lol Windows registry is a fail
 
PUT EVERYTHING IN A SINGLE DATABASE, UNPROTECTED AND WELL!!!!1
 
I honestly want to be a cool kid and understand this hatred of the registry.
But I can't hate it for no reason.
 
10:16 PM
@TonyTheLion No. It is sound design. They oppose Apple diagonally: Apple strives for a consistent UI experience
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Programs install stuff to the registry and rely on it -> not "xcopy-deployable"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes App A can change the settings of app B.
 
Xeo
Is my main factor of hatred towards the registry
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik How does storing crap on the filesystem change that?
Unless you have an user for each app...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Try backing it up. Try hot-backupping your system. Try moving your user profile. Try version control. Try search. Try doing per-app settings (I know about crappy manifest files that 'fix' that for COM registration)
 
10:18 PM
What I also found very stupid was that if autoexec.bat was missing, you couldn't boot your system.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Not true. ACLs on registry keys
 
Oh :P
Installers suck.
 
@sehe Those sound like reasonable concerns. I still think it's not enough to consider it "Windows hellhole" or whatever. And I totally know what those scare quotes on 'fix' mean.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Since Windows Vista/7 applications are essentially 'chrooted' onto their section in Program Files. Well, not 'chrooted', more like 'bind-mounted the hell out of sanity'. Of course, Microsoft must keep up the reputation of over-engineering
 
Xeo
I also don't like that Windows kinda forces you to put your savegames in "Users/name/Documents/My Games"
Or whatever the path is for the current version
 
10:20 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Read up on manifests for local COM registration overrides
 
@sehe I've had trouble with that in the past. It was not sarcasm.
 
The scare quotes mean it is not a fix. It is a convoluted workaround. Like Windows SxS for DLLs, and indeed the Registry.
 
@Xeo That's a game's choice.
 
the registry is like the OS's global variable, everybody can write and read to it, and it's easy to get conflicts
 
10:21 PM
@sehe Nothing prevents another app from accessing the chroot of another.
 
Ell
What was wrong with .ini files in the directory* :L
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Not completely.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I missed the absent negation. :)
@Ell They're not enterprisey not webscale suck
 
It's all in %localappdata% or something.
 
Xeo
You can't just have .ini files in your own folder anymore if you want to be a true windows game, especially if you want to be portable across different versions
 
Ell
10:21 PM
I think I will continue to love linux until I find the windows equivalent things I don't like
 
@Xeo Yes, you can.
 
@ScottW "Windows wird heruntergefahren"
 
Xeo
For XP, it was one path, for Vista/Win7, it's another path to the savegame folder
 
2 mins ago, by sehe
@RMartinhoFernandes Since Windows Vista/7 applications are essentially 'chrooted' onto their section in Program Files. Well, not 'chrooted', more like 'bind-mounted the hell out of sanity'. Of course, Microsoft must keep up the reputation of over-engineering
 
Windows doesn't suck. Mac OS X doesn't suck either. Nor does Linux or whatever. You know what sucks?
Computers suck.
 
Ell
10:22 PM
I mean for installing stuff, before the registry was .ini files wasn't it?
 
too many layers of indirection :P
 
too many layers of product managers
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, I overlooked that. But I seem to remember that games couldn't edit files in their own folder if they were in "Program Files"...
 
Ell
All three suck because everyone wants something different
 
10:23 PM
in C#, 6 mins ago, by Hasan Khan
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
 
@Xeo Open %localappdata%\VirtualStore and you'll see.
 
^ I like that site. Might come in handy
 
I'm not sure I understand this line here at the end of page 1 of this document: "It does so in a simple and direct way by introducing new variadic functions that take arguments that are passed on to the element’s constructor using variadic templates and perfect forwarding."
 
Hmm, mine is currently empty.
Guess I don't have any legacy-ish programs installed.
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Same, lol
 
Ell
10:24 PM
I though stuff got its own program files?
 
Yes, in %localappdata%\VirtualStore.
 
"passed onto the elements ctor", isn't it the element you're supposed to be creating? not passing something to?
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion Normally, you copy something into the container, right?
 
Xeo
And inside the container you have new (space) T(obj_passed_in);
 
10:25 PM
you create a new T of type obj_passed_in?
 
Xeo
With emplace, you do new (space) T(arguments,to,the,ctor,of_T)
with perfect forwarding
 
@RMartinhoFernandes woah, you just drew that?
 
No, I'm not that fast.
I had it from before.
 
Xeo
You just create it inplace instead of copying it into the container
 
10:26 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes ah, I thought you had robot superpowers... :P
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Hey, where are the freehand stars around the new objects?
 
Ell
So you pass arguments to emplace back, not values?
 
@Xeo ah, as the first will invoke the copy ctor?
 
Xeo
Yes
or move ctor
 
ah right
 
Xeo
10:27 PM
You're basically creating a useless temporary to stuff something into the container
with emplace, that is solved
 
and with perfect forwarding, you can create the new T with the necessary arguments to it's original ctor, forwarding the arguments you got from the container
 
Xeo
correct
 
I get it
 
Ell
Perfect forwarding is cool
Has any other language got move semantics besides c++?
 
@Ell that's a good question
 
10:33 PM
Is there any other language that would benefit from it?
 
@Ell D has variadic templates, I dunno about move semantics
 
Move is basically shallow copy + emptying of the original. Shallow copy is the default copy mode in Java. Not the same as move of course :)
 
Ell
I'm just wondering what a language designed with move semantics from the start would look like, would it be easier/cleaner etc.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes java
 
@MooingDuck Java doesn't have value semantics.
 
Ell
10:34 PM
I was thinking D actuslly
 
D doesn't have value semantics for their non-POD equivalents.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm going to take your word on it that that's relevant.
 
@MooingDuck All copies in Java are hand-made.
 
@MooingDuck It it's relevant.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck If you don't have value semantics and are only passing around pointers / references, there is nothing to move really.
 
Ell
10:36 PM
I really can't deal without explicit pointers/references in a language
I start thinking is this a pointer to an object or appointer to a pointer
Or a pointer to a pointer to a pointer
Oops I mean reference for those, not pointer
 
@Ell I know few languages that have that problem
 
Ell
It happens everytime I try tomake a graph data structure
I have a list of neighbors and go, wait... Will this copy? And get confused
 
Answer: it never copies.
(for Java)
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Same for JS, which has bitten a classmate of mine once
He was trying to make savepoints for their platformer
Too bad that savepoint = cur_pos just sets a reference...
 
Both D and C# are not as simple though: structs get value semantics (i.e. are copied), classes get reference semantics.
 
10:41 PM
C# is so fucking awesome I jumped in my whole house when I discovered it.
 
@Cicada I... can't quite understand that
 
Also what's up with using the word "semantics" all over the place.
 
@Cicada accuracy, and questionably clarity.
 
I'm going to use it every now and then.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the wiki page on value semantics says that if the concept is fully applied it implies immutability, and only suggests C++ as an example.
@Cicada when talking about the weather.
 
10:44 PM
If you are in Mr.Grauer's class studying for the test, you are not alone. The Battle of the Somme (, ), also known as the Somme Offensive, took place during the First World War between 1 July and 18 November 1916 on either side of the river Somme in France. The battle saw the British Army, supported by contingents from British imperial territories, including Australia, New Zealand, Newfoundland, Canada, India and South Africa, mount a joint offensive with the French Army against the German Army, which had occupied large areas of France since its invasion of the country in August 1914...
 
> If you are in Mr.Grauer's class studying for the test, you are not alone.
 
Hey that's my country.
Talking about battle semantics I see.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG lol
 
How the heck did you find that?
 
10:46 PM
@DeadMG Already edited out.
 
Ell
Semen semantics
 
@Xeo I was watching Mitchell and Webb and they made a reference to it
 
I wonder how much performance one could crank out of a language will full value semantics. Several languages do it for strings but....
 
^ ClueBot is clever
 
Like, with no reference semantics at all?
 
10:47 PM
@StackedCrooked lol, the bot reverted it.
 
@Cicada I think you'd need reference semantics, but I meant the immutibility.
 
@Ell frantic seaman tics
 
> Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, but at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Battle of the Somme, did not appear to be constructive and has been automatically reverted (undone) by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.
2
 
There already are. Think functional.
 
Not constructive? WTF wikipedia. Not fixing anything anymore.
 
10:48 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I thought it was an interesting note that added value to the whole.
 
Your edit semantics are wrong
 
@RMartinhoFernandes talk page
 
What about it?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Robot you must adapt your speed of operation. Likely, the heuristics include the speed at which the edit was completed. Knowing you, the heuristic must have totally gone off-scale "bot edit"
Name an example?
 
@Cicada I don't think it's quite the same. Immutibility... oh wait, that would apply to the references too... yeah. Functional languages then.
@sehe lua
 
10:50 PM
@MooingDuck Haskell?
 
Immutability is probably the worst and the best thing I've learnt from SO
 
@RMartinhoFernandes basically all the functional langauges
 
@MooingDuck Is it? Or does it use immutable reference types? Not quite the same, but they 'feel' the same way
 
@sehe lua has immutable strings, but is not related to our discussion in any other way. I might have misunderstood your previous question.
 
Well hmm C# has immutable strings too.
Most modern languages do. [Reference needed]
 
10:56 PM
Wow. Wanna know how you turn Cluebot NG off (if you have that privilege level, of course)?
Go to this page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ClueBot_NG/Run and edit it to contain False...
 
Ell
Ruby has mutable strings with two versions of a method
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Are you semantically serious
 
Ell
"hello".capitalize! # mutable
"hello".capitalize # New string
 
That has to be one of the worst UIs I've ever seen.
@Cicada Yes, I am.
> Administrators may turn the bot off by changing this page to 'False'.
 
Oh wow.
 
10:59 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes nonsense, you don't even have to go into the registry
 

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