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12:00 AM
@ScarletAmaranth Wait. Do you consider lamentations trolling?
 
@sehe To the "proving yourself" part, have you ever had the feeling that your colleagues or people in general considered you "inferior in a way" because of the lack of a college degree ?
@sehe No i don't consider trolling lamentation. And yes I'm lamenting now but I certainly don't do that on regular bases! :)
 
They usually don't care. No, I was really just proving to myself that I can do more than most. That's a personality feature, and a good one, IMO.
However, it is an exhausting personality feature, and yes, I think subconsciously, having the 'Engineer' or 'PhD.' might give you that sense of entitlement to step off the gas for a while if you'd need to
 
@sehe You know, possibly. But, I would simply pursue the "idea" of getting better / knowing more just because I fancy doing that, not because I'd necessarily want to be "better than the others".
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik There's a bad pun for the French lurking there
 
le pain le pun
XD
 
12:05 AM
le lapin a dit :)
(spraak het haasje)
 
What does that mean?
I only speak Dutch and English.
 
I also like Einsteins quote, that judging fish by their ability to climb a tree is just stupid. I hate comparing people to each other even if it's in a very concrete thing where it can be "measured" in a way. Not to mention that throwing 11 yo kids in a class and then complaining that they suck at math or don't give a damn about literature is just ridiculous.
 
Me too, but I type gibberish once in a while
 
I don't give a damn about literature!
I had a 4 out of 10 for my literature oral exam. xD
 
@ScarletAmaranth That's what I said. I don't feel a comparative pressure. But I do think I've taken a long time to feel I deserve to have the job I have. I think it is more about Being a phony
@RadekdaknokSlupik Oops. That was NL/EN?
 
12:08 AM
It's quite funny, I went to 8 years-long grammar school and i had literature for 8 years, along with 2 languages, enjoyed all of that. I find certain beauty in a way people structure language. (To which literature and "foreign languagues" are connected.)
 
@sehe NL
For English I had a 2.3 but that wasn't an oral exam.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik How many books on the reading list these days?
 
7 for Dutch, 3 for English (and a bunch of poems and short stories).
 
Whoa!! So few? OMG
 
lol
School has changed.
Not that I read any of them.
 
12:10 AM
It was 15 for both in my day (~1995) and I think I never told you I switched to "Het Juvenaat" in my final years, which meant both lists doubled (30 for Dutch and (I think?) 20 for English).
 
LOL that sucks.
 
@sehe Yeah i understand, that's the part I'm afraid of should i get a job now. I wouldn't be quite happy if I myself had a feeling that I'm somehow "stalling" other poeple or just not doing as good of a job as they are. But I suppose that, at least for me, it ultimately doesn't matter. I do love "programming" and all that but at the end of the day, for me, my job is just "something compulsory" so that I can enjoy other stuff. I have a different set of priorities.
 
You see, that explains how you got more 'vlieguren' as a programmer than I did in the day (a) you had a computer (b) you had internet (c) you had more time (I was reading a lot, even besides the mandatory reading, and I was always studying music).
 
I cannot stare at a book for more than half an hour without getting sick.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik I have that now, and it annoys me. Books used to carry me away, but I can't finish any these days
 
12:12 AM
I read a lot too.
 
Good. Just not literature then :)
(I bet it's not poetry)
 
I read code, your messages, articles on the web, books on C++, tweets… :P
Poetry? No, I'm not that good at cryptography.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik yeah, see; most of that wasn't there or at least not available unless you were in college already.
 
Unless you work for WordPress, where code is poetry.
 
Mhm, I read code and Shakespeare, what does that make me :)
 
12:14 AM
@sehe I understand.
'95 you said?
 
(On a side note, there's a lot to be drawn from poetry.)
 
In 95 I was 1 yo. We got our first computer in '98.
I liked disassembling cars from clip arts in Corel Draw, and I liked closing windows when I was about 5 or 6.
@ScarletAmaranth "Shakespeare" is actually a programming language. :P
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik I'll admit that I didn't actually read all 30 books on my Dutch reading list, but I blame it on the school switch. I never regretted the switch, even though I had to catch up 'SO' (school onderzoeken) because of changed subjects. It just made me drop the 2 extracurricular subjects (Econ. II and Wisk a). So I'd just be doing conservatory on the side :) Pretty sane, lol
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yeah but it limites the amount of variables you can use which makes it annoying :)
@RadekdaknokSlupik The other things are not so annoying at all! :)
 
I reckon, if I failed to graduate with honours (I don't actually remember silly details like that), it's probably down to that 'impedance mismatch' of schools.
@RadekdaknokSlupik That's a cute description. And OMG I'm getting old :(
 
12:19 AM
Qt is cute.
 
Irrelevant
 
My description ain't.
Your argument is invalid.
 
Irrelevant
<!-- make it stick -->
Dang. SO chat is deduplicating messages :)
 
XML! KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!
 
No, that's an SGML style comment.
 
12:20 AM
k
 
Xml is easy to parse and also readable by people, why so much hatred :) ?
 
easy to parse ?
 
readable by people ?
 
Case closed.
 
Maybe if you apply a nice stylesheet.
 
12:22 AM
@ScarletAmaranth Perhaps stay in college. Or not, I don't know. Do they teach you that XML is easy to parse/validate?
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yeah, with the right transformation even bra*nfuck is readable.
 
I want a decent XSLT 2.0 implementation, but there isn't any.
 
Well, it's not a bunch of gobbledy-gook and it's syntax is fairly strict as far as I can tell :)
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Yeah that'd make it simplestest. Just apply XSL-FO that no one properly implements, will make you namespace sick and long for the ease of expression of Lisp. Then get a compliant browser that honours the stylesheet... well super easy.
@RMartinhoFernandes We've. Got. Robot.
 
I know! I'll just make a decent XSLT implementation. :P
 
12:25 AM
famous last words
 
@sehe Missed me?
@manasij7479 Zing!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes bra*nfuck? Why censor the i?
 
@ScarletAmaranth That's the thing. It's not trivial to parse, and beyond wellformedness it is a veritable mess. Try doing streaming IO on XML while validating against an XSD.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Because that word must be censored. There was a decision about it on meta.
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik That's not impossible, depending on how far you are willing to stretch the definition of 'decent' in either sense of the word ;)
 
12:26 AM
@sehe "fully conforming and free as in freedom"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes (psst. when did we start caring)
 
@sehe When I came up with the idea of censoring something other than the u.
 
Brainfuck. :)
 
Oh noes, you typed it out in full!
 
@RadekdaknokSlupik Be prepared to file a fair number of 'defect reports' then. A few things are left undefined. (Ordering of nodesets, nodesets in general; IIRC you have to have fullblown FO support to achieve full 'conformance' on nodesets. But it has been a while)
 
12:29 AM
Now they'll take you to room 101 and... and... something!
 
Shute. My fileserver decides to overheat after running with heavy disk traffic and compression for several hours.
 
@sehe You have a personal fileserver under the pillow ? o_O
 
What pillow
 
Yerrr pillow.
 
I think I posted a pic yesterday. I'm getting crazy from the beeping. I'm not prepared to shut it down yet, since it will lose hours of work
 
12:33 AM
The same pillow under which the acronym list resides.
 
?
w83627thf-isa-0290
Adapter: ISA adapter
in0:          +1.10 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +3.84 V)
in1:          +1.04 V  (min =  +0.05 V, max =  +0.13 V)  ALARM
in2:          +1.84 V  (min =  +3.71 V, max =  +3.94 V)  ALARM
+5V:          +5.04 V  (min =  +4.51 V, max =  +5.49 V)
in4:          +3.38 V  (min =  +0.00 V, max =  +2.96 V)  ALARM
5VSB:         +5.04 V  (min =  +4.51 V, max =  +5.49 V)
Vbat:         +3.30 V  (min =  +2.16 V, max =  +2.69 V)  ALARM
fan1:           0 RPM  (min = 2057 RPM, div = 8)  ALARM
I don't see anything in particular overheating there
Fuck it doesn't go in standby either
 
@sehe Do you ever get the feeling that some of your colleagues might not be as good as you are or you hold the bar high only for yourself ?
 
@ScarletAmaranth The latter. My collegues are rather fond of me. But I do suffer from 'phony syndrome': I always wonder whether they should :)
Ok, testing the resilience of ZFS-on-linux - yanked two harddisks from two arrays. The beep stopped and overall temp is down by roughly 10 degrees (CPU) and 6 degrees (SYS). That should be ok. I'mma restart that long running operation and see whether it will stay nice
 
@sehe So you do even realize that you may suffer from the 'phoney syndrome' yet you still somehow subconsciously suffer from it simply because it's in your nature ... so then why do you think that a college degree would give you a justification of some sort to stop caring every now and then ?
 
@ScarletAmaranth I don't know. That's the point. I can't know since I can't go back in time
It's just a feeling I sometimes have. I think it might have helped. The idea that someone slaps the stamp of approval on you. I miss that. Sounds like Freud, doesn't it?
 
12:45 AM
@sehe And apart from this self-assessment thing, have you ever encountered not having a degree a problem ?
@sehe All my knowledge about Freud is related to sex which apparently is forbidden in the world of stack exchange !! :)
 
Absolutely not. I might have paid myself short, but I don't really care.
 
@sehe So you also view your professional life as being "the life on the second trolley" or whatever the analogy in English is ?
I mean, i wanted to be good at what I do but there are things of higher priority in my life than my career, job, or even money i get paid.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I like to be good at what I do. I want to enjoy myself doing what I like.
Indeed, the money is a sideeffect.
 
mawnin nubberies
 
Shiny, i have around 200 minutes of sleep in front of me yet my scumbag brain doesn't fancy going to sleep.
 
12:50 AM
@ScarletAmaranth Consider having the scumbag remove the keyboard from reach
 
@sehe Would you ever prioritize career over, say, family ? (If that's an impertinent thing to ask feel encouraged to not answer :))
 
I just pulled an allnighter.. lucky that a vacation is going on.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I think I used to. But then I got kids :)
 
@manasij7479 Kidding? I only just woke up :P
 
@sehe Which did change your point of view on your "ladder of priorities" in your life would you say :P ?
@DeadMG Then for what reason are you not playing diablo yet ?
 
12:52 AM
@DeadMG which time zone are you in ?
 
BST, which is GMT + 1
 
you woke up at 1 am ?
 
actually, 1:45am
went to sleep at about 3-4pm so it's not so bad
 
@DeadMG Do you have a day job of some kind :D ?
 
Now that sleep cycle is as broken as mine !
 
12:55 AM
@ScarletAmaranth Hard to say. I've always postponed the idea of having children whilst I was busy working my ass off. Then, when stopped by nature (burnout) I spent a period of time being very very uncomfortable with all the 'spare' time I was no longer at work. Somehow it created the mental space to think about kids again. So we decided it was a good time to commence, so to speak.
But yes, the kids being there makes it really easy to not fall back into work glorification that easily
 
@manasij7479 External factors. I'm very sick and sometimes, if very sick at bed-time, it can push the time waaaay back in a single day.
this is me trying to push it further back so that it becomes a normal time
I expect to get up 2-3 hours later every day for the next few days and then I'll be back to normal
 
That doesn't work very well for me at the end of vacations..,always missed the mark and made it worse.
It is better to try doing it at one try .. like trying to stay up 24 hrs and then falling asleep at the right time.
 
nah
I can just make myself somewhat sick
as long as it's not too sick
 
@sehe Have you ever had any regrets about maybe having kids later as you perhaps "imagined" or would you do something differently should you be given an opportunity ? (There's many things fairly unclear in my head regard "the way of my life", that's why the inquisition :))
 
@ScarletAmaranth I feel quite comfortable having waited 'fairly long'. My wife and I still agree that there wouldn't have been much 'room' for kids earlier. In a way you could say I wanted/had to mature more.
I'm happy that I did, because when we chose to have kids, (to my surprise) I was really ready and looking forward. This means that I'm really involved and close with them, whereas otherwise, 'work' might have happened and I might have missed the chance to spend those years with my own kids.
If there's one drawback: people say it is easier to 'get through' the more intensive early years when you're younger. I do admit that I think about that when running around the park teaching them to cycle. But then again, I never did have any kind of physical stamina :)
 
1:04 AM
@sehe Thanks, it's been fairly insightful! :)
 
np:)
 
@sehe I'm gonna try to get some sleep so that i convert that binary to octal well to get one step closer to getting a degree! :)
@sehe i wish i was joking :)
 
me too. I'm declaring that long running job lost and shutting my server down :)
 
nite, thanks again
 
@ScarletAmaranth as long as you laugh, you are :)
 
user406009
1:29 AM
Not a very impressive solar eclipse.
 
user406009
Might have just been my bad pinhole camera though.
 
user868935
3:55 AM
@all I have Symbolic C++ for Visual Studio from this site: issc.uj.ac.za/symbolic/symbolic.html How do I load it so that it accessible for my projects?
 
4:33 AM
@KerrekSB hello there
 
0
A: c++ "no matching function to call

DeadMGThe real reason your call is failing is because you're passing an item& where your function takes an item*. Your code also violates const correctness on the string, but in C++03 they have a special rule which makes that legal.

three noobs one pro
 
two noobs one cup?
 
lol
 
elaborate just alittle for the poor newb
why is it being passed as & instead of *?
 
the fuck should I know? I'm not psychic
 
4:41 AM
program.reference.retrieve("Abecean Longfin", &program.client_item, 1);
would be appropriate
 
he's passing a value where there is a pointer- that's all there is to it, and the reason why is probably because he's a terrible programmer
 
user868935
@stdOrgnlDave who are the two noobs and one cup
 
@ChocoMan hello, pleased to meet you. you will find @DeadMG and @RMartinhoFernandes with @CatPlusPlus acting as the cup, if he's drunk enough.
@DeadMG we were all terrible programmers once. :-(
@ChocoMan a robot, a dead man, and a drunk cat.
 
user868935
@stdOrgnlDave ok lol. can you help me with an installation problem?
 
@ChocoMan that depends. are we making a military strike against an installation? or perhaps we are raiding a chocolate sculpture installation. I can definitely help with that.
or is it some form of art installation? I used to be married to an artist, I may be of some limited help
 
user868935
4:46 AM
@stdOrgnlDave The question is above your "hello there"
 
I hate when I answer people and they don't mod me up immediately
0
Q: How to avoid helper functions being warned? " xxx defined but not used"

MickeyI learnt from this post here to create helper functions in namespace. 'Helper' functions in C++ //stringhelper.hpp namespace utility{ static std::string intToString(int integer) { std::stringstream sstream; sstream << integer; return sstream.str(); } static void toLower...

I answered him within five minutes. argh
unsigned long verylong
hehe
@ChocoMan your question is overly broad. are you asking how to include the headers, how to link the library, ... everything you need to do, basically?
 
First Donna Summer dies and now a Bee Gee. Disco is dying all over again :(
 
argh, when will I get a 'k' after my rep? do I need to past 1,024 because this is totally a coder site, or do I need to hit double digits?
 
user868935
@stdOrgnlDave yes, so I can use #include "symbolicc++.h"
 
user868935
but in any project I create
 
4:50 AM
@stdOrgnlDave 10000 is when you get a k
 
@ChocoMan ...which version of Visual C++ are you using...
@Pubby I have to rep whore 10 times as much as I have to get a damn metric postfix? fuck me
 
user868935
@stdOrgnlDave 2010
 
user868935
@stdOrgnlDave I just need it so I can call it in any project
 
@ChocoMan in each project, you have to right-click the project over in the solution explorer. make sure platform is set to "all platforms" in the upper-right of that window. click on references. under "configuration properties" and then "VC++ Directories" you need to add the relevant places to "library directories" and "include directories." that is, where you unzipped symbolic C++ to. Then under "linker" go to "input" and add the library name to "additional dependencies"
 
@stdOrgnlDave Hello
 
user868935
4:56 AM
@stdOrgnlDave thanks!
 
@KerrekSB it seems we are sharing answers over a question asked by a serious newb we are sharing
@ChocoMan as thanks, head to that question I posted and up-vote my answer please :-D
 
@stdOrgnlDave Who's that?
 
In your experience, is it worthwhile to even continue to help such fellows?
hey how come my explanation of how to add a library to a project in VC++10 got starred :-\
 
user868935
ive never ran into that problem
 
@stdOrgnlDave I see it more as a contribution to the site that to the asker. Others might search and find the question, and this way they have something to go on.
 
5:00 AM
@KerrekSB you, sir, have my respect. I shall delete my answer if you wish to further yours so as not to confuse the poor newb.
5
A: c++ "no matching function to call

DeadMGThe real reason your call is failing is because you're passing an item& where your function takes an item*. Your code also violates const correctness on the string, but in C++03 they have a special rule which makes that legal.

cat fight!
 
I've never seen so much silly contention over a straightforward answer. I'm done with it.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Nah, keep it around - it's always better to have more answers if they're not exactly identical (or wrong)
 
@GManNickG People just can't cope with how incredibly awesome I am at everything I choose to do
 
wtf where is INT_MAX defined
fucking GCC pedant bullshit
 
some C Standard header
stddef.h, I think
numeric_limits should have it
 
5:07 AM
found it, climits
@DeadMG one thing that confuses me about the question I posted where there is a cat fight over the &, is, since when does C++ support dynamic sized arrays?
I mean other than vectors
 
@stdOrgnlDave Uh, wot
 
passing a char[] to a function
does that auto-decay to a pointer or something?
 
char[] = char*
 
char[] != char*!
 
char[] as a function parameter = char*
I think
 
5:09 AM
ahh.
that's stupid.
 
Yeah
 
everything to do with [] on primitive types is
 
IMO [] is pretty rad at times
 
that's even more stupid
yes, but the [] operator can be overridden
I would call that poor practice
 
But [] isn't an operator in this context :(
 
5:11 AM
which is why it's stupid! :-P
 
Everything is stupid
 
but thanks for letting me know
 
except deadMG
 
@stdOrgnlDave Because you're a numpty. vector and map, and plenty of others, make fine use of [].
 
I'm seriously wondering if 2 people really found that info about using libraries in VC10 helpful because VC10 is dumb, or if that is starred because I made some obvious mistake and made an ass of myself
@DeadMG so what happens when I pass an object that has multiple overrides for the * operator?
wait
 
5:14 AM
@stdOrgnlDave What?
 
it's very late, let me think about that for a minute, it's very late and I think I just broke my brain
wtf, why did VC let me define these
uint8* operator*()						{ return _buffer; }
operator uint8*()						{ return _buffer; }
in the same class?
wtf
 
One is cast, one is dereference, what's the problem?
 
no language feature can stop people from making stupid operators
 
the problem is I'm freakin' tired
@DeadMG what's stupid about those operators
 
implicit cast is dumb
also it would appear to return a pointer to a buffer, but the pointer does not return it's size
 
5:17 AM
in this case it isn't
 
which is very dumb
 
implicit cast is in fact quite useful in this case
I mean, it is a "smart buffer" object, meant to be abused a whole ton
 
uh, that's an oxymoron
 
and to take it like a wife in the ozarks
 
which is fairly appropriate, since you'd have to be a moron to write that interface
and there's nothing smart about decaying to a completely unsafe raw pointer
 
5:19 AM
at some point, @DeadMG, you need to trust yourself not to be completely stupid.
 
I do
I just don't trust other people not to be completely stupid
which is fine, because if I did, they would disappoint me on a very regular basis
 
that is a class for internal library use and that functionality makes code a lot more readable
 
makes code a lot more likely to inexplicably crash and corrupt things
which is very not readable
 
I shan't stay and argue the virtues of a class internal to a library that is very stable and mature, to which you've seen two member functions. a good night to you all, except for @DeadMG. I hope you learn something outside your narrow view instead of getting sleep
 
only with me, and I don't sleep with dudes
 
5:31 AM
oh sex
lol
 
@ScottW deny. last time was horrible.
 
Ell
6:24 AM
Mornin all
 
To you too
@StackedCrooked Last time "s'd"?
 
Why hello there.
Don't mind me I'm busy not paying attention to the database course.
 
The signatures of main are implementation defined; except for the two required ones, the only requirement is that they all return int. If the program uses a signature of main which isn't supported, I think that a diagnostic is required; from a QoI point of view, it is certainly required. So b) is guaranteed, and a), c) and d) are implementation defined, but will either fail to compile or will work. — James Kanze May 16 at 8:58
Good morning Cicada
2 hours ago, by std''OrgnlDave
@Pubby I have to rep whore 10 times as much as I have to get a damn metric postfix? fuck me
@stdOrgnlDave Nope:
 
Oh look look there's one of my answers just below that one! Now upvote it.
 
I hate the double quote in your nickname @stdOrgnlDave
 
6:36 AM
@Cicada I knew. It's how I found it. Forgive me, I have a habit of checking out profiles of users I've never before seen in chat :) (and besides, it doesn't happen often we get female visitors here)
 
I think he refers to himself as std::OrgnlDave, dunno what's with the apostrophes
But if it's in std namespace, why the camel case?
 
Likely because :: isn't allowed?
 
fuck CamelCase
 
Oh boy, the lion's grumpier than the ape today
2
 
"My humps my humps, my lovely camel bumps" ~ CamelCase programmer
 
6:39 AM
Haha. Now unstar those messages, Pubby, I starred yours instead
 
I will move my assets into sehe's posts instead
 
I'm grumpy? Really?
 
That's a compliment around here
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah, big time. Just look at your two random acts of kindness since you entered :)
@Pubby ...
 
6:49 AM
@Cicada Upvoted this one instead. I couldn't really see the future value in the other answer (but that said a lot about the question)
 
@sehe Oh well. I do come from time to time but I always get creeped out. Last time people were discussing the point of getting drunk and smoking. FYI I'm not particularly good at C++. I don't feel the language. Whatever that means.
 
It probably means what you intend :)
Damn it, I jave a habit of borking my links today. Fixing this one...
Too late to fix: It was this answer
Re: IL2CPU, you can use the mono runtime (mkbundle or mono --aot) to precompile into native images that don't depend on a CLR or runtime. — sehe 13 secs ago
 
Anyone know a good api or library that makes syntax highlighting a script language syntax easy within C++?
I was thinking about just simply tokenizing the script language, and then doing identifier, operators, nullers, and functions highlighting
 
@Chad Context? GUI, headless? To HTML, eps, what?
@Chad That will work, but doesn't scale for many languages. If it's just for your own language, you have the parser anyway, I'd say: go for it
 
isn't XML, or HTML. Generally a simple script language
 
6:56 AM
@sehe That looks great! Can it compile to PE?
 
@sehe lol, I could just have posted pron too, if that makes you feel better
 
@Cicada On windows, it does
 
@chad Scintilla lexer
 
a
 
@TonyTheLion Hmmm. This one will do
Ah Scintilla I had trouble remembering it jsut now and google was broken :)
 
6:58 AM
Damn edit button
 
@sehe oooh I so want yo try this now!
 
@Cicada I had a look at Scintilla though it seem to be a bit overkill. Though I guess right now that is what im going to have to stick with. I was hopping there was a framework inplace that could quickly manipulate strings
 

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