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12:00 PM
I'm living in the Philippines now, and if you're going to get hacked, it might as well be by a Filipino. They aren't particularly clever.
 
@Potatoswatter as in, trying to hack into my account by guessing the password.
@Potatoswatter that's what you think. The Filipinos I've met in my life are extremely clever.
Lol. it's kinda ironic. the hacker got hacked!
 
There is essentially no public education here, so at the least bully for him on the requisite research.
 
Oh. That sucks.
 
Clever in human terms, but in machine terms, I've only met one person who knew what programming even is. I say I'm a programmer and they interpret it as reformatting broken PCs.
 
Don't worry, that happens on the Western world as well.
 
12:03 PM
@Potatoswatter lol, the technician at the hospital my dad works at is a Filipino. He knows what programming is, I asked him.
 
@IntermediateHacker Filipinos who leave the Philippines to work elsewhere are a different story. But you said the hacker is someone in the Philippines.
 
"I'm a programmer." "Oh, then maybe you can help me. My computer has been getting slow and I get messages saying something."
Made this mistake too many times.
 
I don't understand that survey we keep getting
Is "collaborative software development" the same as open source?
 
Oh, that spam?
 
@Potatoswatter yeah, but most of the Filipino nurses and attendants at my dad's hospital have gone on Vacation back to the Philippines. I suspect it's one of them who's trying to hack in. They know my username you see.
@RMartinhoFernandes same problem with the Arabs. "Oh, Habibi, you are a Combuter Brogrammer? Helb me with zis, my combuter is not starting up."
 
12:07 PM
@jalf From some Something Visser guy?
 
Cool story, brogrammer.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yeah
 
In Arabic there is no "p". So they pronounce it "Brogrammer".
 
@jalf Did you get a reminder as well?
 
12:08 PM
but half the questions seem to assume that I'm working with open source development
@RMartinhoFernandes yep
the other half seems to assume that I agree with him that open source is the answer to all the world's problems
 
I ignored it, as I tend to do with stupid emails.
 
so how come you guys got this and I, for example, didn't?
 
@TonyTheLion haven't the foggiest clue
 
You're not as famous as we are.
 
it's a conspiracy
@CatPlusPlus oh yea, you're a famous cat.
 
12:09 PM
um.. what are we talking about?
 
That must be it. You don't have the limo with toned windows and big bodyguards with shades
No one takes you seriously then
 
2 mins ago, by Cat Plus Plus
I ignored it, as I tend to do with stupid emails.
what did you ignore?
 
I've been reading this C++ book and I've discovered I know nothing about C++
 
WTF is everyone talking about?
 
12:11 PM
read the transcript
 
@TonyTheLion You suck and we're awesome.
 
@TonyTheLion I made that discovery a long time ago.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ugh...
 
@jalf Well, that confirms suspicions then. When I read that part about doing open-source on top of commercial platforms the "FSF zealot" alarm bells started to ring.
 
Don't bully the lion!
 
12:12 PM
Then when I got the reminder, my already minuscule desire to answer it died.
 
He encoded the mail with CP1252.
 
@TonyTheLion Do you have github or bitbucket account or something?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes nope.
 
The FSF gives you freedom to do exactly as they say.
 
@TonyTheLion That's probably it.
 
12:14 PM
so you guys don't like open-source?
@RMartinhoFernandes ah
 
I don't like GNU.
They brought forth autotools and GPL.
Hellish fiends.
 
@TonyTheLion Open source is good. Open source is community. FSF is communism, which is bad.
 
Public domain all the things!
 
oh
I'm obviously ignorant
cause I have no idea...
 
god, still no commits to the clang lambda github account?
 
12:16 PM
Clambda.
 
@TonyTheLion I do.
 
clang doesn't support lambda yet?
 
@TonyTheLion nope
 
I like GCC (and contribute) because it's a good product, but the legal issues almost outweigh the benefits.
 
And I actually put my code in the public domain these days.
 
12:16 PM
no commits to that repo since october
 
@CatPlusPlus Sounds like a venereal disease.
 
But the FSF is like a religion.
 
@Potatoswatter that's silly. Communism isn't worse than so many other things
 
PD/Unlicense/WTFPL > MIT/BSD > GPL.
 
@Potatoswatter oh wow, didn't know it had so much legal behind it.
 
12:16 PM
She has clambda in her clambda.
@jalf Is that some kind of logical statement or justification?
Cuba isn't the worst place, to be sure…
 
I'm offended that I have to think about silly things like renouncing my copyright.
2
Stupid waste of time.
It should be default.
 
@Potatoswatter take your pick. But I don't see how communism is worse than, say, capitalism, for example
 
the criticisms people usually have are about dictatorships, which is kind of a different thing
just because dictators have had a habit of pretending that their dictatorship was really communism
 
@jalf Communism denies you the right to have property, even without the dictatorship. That is really bad.
 
12:18 PM
@CatPlusPlus what do you mean? If you publish under GPL you are saying that you loose all copyright to any of your works?
 
@Potatoswatter It also absolves you of the need for property
 
@TonyTheLion No.
 
Loosing is suck.
 
In practice, communism inevitably opens a vacuum of ownership that allows corrupt people to acquire everything and become politicians.
 
12:19 PM
Is that worse than capitalism which allows you to have property, but for many people makes it impossible to actually acquire any?
 
In practice, communism is usually instituted in the first place by people who want to do exactly that.
 
Any system will fail and suck as long as people are implementing it.
We need some aliens to take over.
 
@Potatoswatter Justl ike in practice capitalism is usually instituted in the first place by people who think that their right to become even richer than they already are, trumps everything :)
 
Communism is just another control mechanism to control a populace, just like democracy or whatever else. Just that one is a bit more obviously a control mechanism then the other.
 
And I don't see how it matters, because at the moment, I'm not aware of a single country which actually implements either communism or capitalism
 
12:21 PM
@jalf Cuba
North Korea
 
Neither of those are truly communist states
Korea in particular is a great example of what I said. It's a dicatorship where the dictator feels that calling his country communist is good PR
 
they might not be 100% pure, but coming fairly close
 
But they have red colour in their flags or something.
 
Neither extreme has ever worked out for long. Both capitalism and communism, in their pure forms, are fundamentally flawed
 
@jalf love the description
 
12:22 PM
but that doesn't mean that any of them is "bad". There are a lot of elements worth borrowing from both
as long as you don't go overboard and try to implement the "pure" version
 
Democracy as it is being used today, also seems to be far from ideal. Just look at the politicians we always end up with.
 
@jalf Capitalism came about organically, nobody institutes it except in places that were already communist.
Institution of capitalism consists of abolishing whatever laws were there to prevent it.
 
@Potatoswatter that's bullshit
First, it never came about in the first place (except possibly for a couple of years in Victorian England). And second, for it to come about, requires us to institute a number of laws, and abolish others which are otherwise very natural to us
 
how did we get into politics anyways?
 
@jalf Anarchy is capitalism. Laissez-faire, might makes right, survival of the brutal.
 
12:24 PM
Not exactly
In any case, anarchy doesn't arise "organically" in human communities either
we're tribal, sharing and helping each others is built into our genes
 
I'm no longer following this conversation. I should go read more r/politics :P
 
It requires someone to actively break down a lot of barriers
 
@jalf Who is the "us" that institutes a number of laws? Leaders acquire capital and make laws to suit themselves. That is pure capitalism.
 
@Potatoswatter "us" = the community as a whole. The rules are whatever people follow. If people follow a rule, then it exists
and if people tend to follow a rule that "we should help the sick and poor", as they generally do, then it takes someone to actively say "NO, my desire for profit is more important. If the sick and poor can't help, we should not help them"
in any case, I'm not sure I see why you consider "survival of the brutal" to be preferable to communism
 
@jalf No, only if the sick and poor are in the minority. If poverty is overwhelming, the majority of people with means to help really cease to care.
You're speaking from a first-world perspective of generally eradicated poverty.
 
12:29 PM
@Potatoswatter eh, no
People in third world countries are generally pretty good at helping each others too
but obviously poverty is relative. If everyone is equally poor then no one is poor
 
Socialism is very important in terms of education, but it's often difficult even to maintain the spirit of giving in that limited context, at least in the US.
Witness the recent problems in Wisconsin, where the government declared that teachers receive tax money and ergo are lazy.
 
So, bananas or pickles?
 
@Potatoswatter And yet they still ask people to pay taxes. :)
Why do you think basically every country has some form of social security? Why do you think every country requires you to pay taxes? It's because capitalism, pure capitalism, doesn't come naturally to us. As humans the urge to be part of a community, and share with and depend on that community is pretty strong.
sure, people bicker about much to pay, or how to treat those who benefit from these taxes. But you won' find many people who say "you know, taxes should be abolished entirely. Let every man fend for himself"
 
@CatPlusPlus Bananas!
Pickles suck.
 
@jalf Poor people in third world countries often help other poor people. That doesn't make communism. And it doesn't accomplish social change; that's what I meant by "people with means to help."
 
12:33 PM
@Potatoswatter I never said anything about social change. :)
 
@jalf Yes, the governor who said that lives in a big mansion, and of course he's not lazy.
 
I merely said that as human beings it's pretty natural for us to want to help others, and even to organize this help in some way. Which means that we're not naturally capitalists
 
@jalf You said that capitalism does not grow organically because people instinctively help each other. The people who can make a difference by helping tend to lack that instinct.
People help others who are like themselves.
 
Does the governor in your case pay no taxes at all?
Every tax dollar you pay is you helping your community.
 
Communism can effect socialism in a society where everyone is alike, but that would actually really suck. And that was the goal of the Khmer Rouge, for what it's worth.
 
12:35 PM
So yes, I'd say people instinctively help each others.
 
Are you saying people want to pay taxes? The governor's point was that the teachers' union should be broken, so that their pay could be cut in order to lower taxes.
He was baldly arguing that teachers do not benefit society. Pure madness, but got a lot of support.
 
Oh no, my answer is simplistic and biased. How could I.
I'm really tired of people overcomplicating code to solve problems that don't exist.
 
@Potatoswatter well, yeah. Isn't it obvious? Everyone pays taxes. How else could you explain that ordinary people in countries all over the world choose to live in a system where they have to pay taxes?
again, people disagree on exactly how the received taxes should be spent and distributed, and they disagree on how much should be paid in taxes
 
@jalf They don't choose to do so, and many try to evade tax. What happens to them?
 
But I haven't heard of many people saying that taxes in general were an abomination
@Potatoswatter Sure they choose to. They vote for politicians who support the existence of taxes. They refrain from grabbing their hunting rifle or pitchfork and starting a revolution
 
12:39 PM
Societies with taxation came to survive better because they could support militaries and expand. Social welfare programs came later!
 
@Potatoswatter Isn't the ability to defend yourself against attackers a pretty essential form of social welfare too?
 
And democracy and popular revolution are even newer inventions than public school!
You need to review the order of historical precedents.
 
The capitalist solution would be that people who can afford it hire their own damn armies
 
@jalf Um, the Mongols introduced taxation to many of their territories for the first time. Were they not the attackers?
 
you're missing my point. :)
 
12:42 PM
I don't think I am. Things evolved in a particular order.
 
and taxation is just one example of people contributing to their community
 
Their reasons for existence are belied by that order. Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.
 
Hmm. Are the standard libraries on nix provided by gcc or the distro?
 
it's a common way to do it today. But even before taxation, people shared with their neighbors
and grouped together to defend themselves
 
@LexiR Yes.
 
12:43 PM
Yes?
 
You won't find many who seriously, honestly feels that humanity would be better off if everything, for everyone was left to the private enterprise.
Capitalism doesn't arise naturally. A big fat mix of everything is what comes naturally to us
 
@LexiR On Linux and Unixes that adopt GCC (such as OS X), it comes from GCC. In any case, it comes from the distro.
 
You only reach the extremes in a few rare cases, and then only for a couple of years before it gets corrupted and/or tempered
If capitalism was natural, then we would actually have capitalist states today. We don't
Or at least, I'm not aware of any
 
Everything evolves naturally, that is sort of the definition of nature. And no, there are no absolutes.
 
12:45 PM
@Potatoswatter: K.
 
For the most part, though, you've been describing socialism… the general provision of benefits to everyone.
 
@Potatoswatter No, everything that's an improvement over what came before (and which is actually possible) evolves naturally
 
Well to put it less vaguely, I'm having trouble getting move semantics working on this computer and I'm not sure if it's g++'s fault or red hat's.
 
Arrgh, it annoys me that people think weak_ptr::expired() is good to check validity. I thought the name was a good clue.
 
Depriving all individuals of property, and yet maintaining low corruption, is not a state that has ever been maintained for very long.
 
12:46 PM
or more precisely, everything that's worse than what came before generally gets weeded out
 
@LexiR Do you compile with -std=c++0x?
 
@Potatoswatter I never claimed otherwise
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: g++ -g -Wall -std=c++0x -pedantic
 
my point is that capitalism has never been maintained for very long either
neither of them are stable
 
@LexiR What error do you get?
 
12:48 PM
error: error
 
@jalf If you define capitalism as the total lack of any common social benefits, then yes. But that's a somewhat contrived definition.
 
@Potatoswatter No it isn't. it's what capitalism means
I might as well say that your definition of communism as "abolishing personal property completely" is a contrived definition
Countries which call themselves capitalist today aren't. They're far from it.
 
src/Map/MapNode.h:16:12: note: no known conversion for argument 1 from ‘Wulf::MapNode’ to ‘Wulf::MapNode&&’
seems to be the overall gist of it, but http://pastie.org/3213188 is the full crashing glory of it.
 
Just like countries which call themselves communist aren't
 
It's more reasonable to say that a capitalist society plus a school system is still capitalism, than a communist society which is a facade for the enslavement of a populace by a dictator is really communist.
 
Xeo
12:50 PM
0
Q: C++ program that takes a sentence as input and counts the number of palindrome in that sentence

Camille OcceñoFirst, the sentence must be broken down into words and those words will be checked if palindrome or not. Example, the user entered "The eye of the tiger is fierce at noon". The program should output "eye" and "noon" because they are the palindromes. Commas and periods should be ignored and it sho...

"PLZ GIVE TEH CODEZ!"
 
> 10 pts for the most accurate answer!
 
@Potatoswatter I disagree. The ideology of capitalism describes a certain structure that society must abide to. You can't say "oh, but this part and this part and this part is going to skip all those rules, but the whole is still capitalism"
You're American, aren't you?
 
@jalf Such absolute interpretation of anything renders philosophy useless.
Yes, American.
 
You can certainly say that a lot of countries today draw inspiration from capitalism in many ways
but you're fooling yourself if you think any of these countries are capitalist
@Potatoswatter Nope
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: I'd like to mention that it compiles fine in VS2010.
 
12:52 PM
@jalf Societies would collapse without social benefits, and the moneyed classes support benefits due to fear of collapse, not generosity.
 
@Potatoswatter I thought so. You should do a bit of reading then, on what these two ideologies actually are, because believe it or not, communism doesn't actually say anything about dictatorships or enslavement. And capitalism defines a society which is quite different from anything you know
@Potatoswatter Exactly. Societies would collapse if they were required to actually implement capitalism
just like they would collapse if they were requried to actually implement communism
And I never said a word about generosity
 
@LexiR Maybe you should post a question on the site.
 
Yay, paradigms course materials.
 
The middle and upper classes wish to buy stability from the government. If the government operates as a corporation providing this service for a price, is that not capitalism?
 
"fear of collapse" is nearly always the reason why we help others
 
12:53 PM
There's some Java files for the last lecture.
 
even in third world countries
 
And it's Shape polymorphism.
 
You help others because that creates stability, and stability benefits yourself
 
And Circle extends Point.
Yay.
 
12:54 PM
It's supposed to demonstrate polymorphism.
 
@jalf Wait, so now you're arguing for or against the communal instinct?
 
@Potatoswatter No, because (1) in pure capitalism, you have no such thing as a corporation. That's a bastard invention people came up with separately. And (2) the state does not operate as a corporation
 
But I somewhat fail to see it.
The circle thing doesn't even override the shape methods.
 
@Potatoswatter Er, no. I'm arguing that this instinct to help others exists, but the reason it exists is because helping others eventually comes around and helps ourselvs
 
@jalf That sounds different from what I believe, which is that people will hoard everything and screw the little guy just up to the point of imminent societal collapse.
 
12:57 PM
It's 14 and I've already been awake for 7 hours. That sucks.
 
well, the difference is that my belief is backed by observational evidence
it's common in animals, even
 
If people instinctively helped each other, things wouldn't verge on revolution so often.
 
It's simply a better evolutionary strategy to help your mates
It has nothing to do with generosity
 
@jalf Hmm, ask @sbi about that one.
 
12:59 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes: Thanks for looking anyway.
 
It has to do with helping others.
 

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