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17:00
I need to write a custom parser
I swear I never saw that coming.
lol
what, that I'm a Lua Expert™ or that I need to write a custom parser?
I never knew which one was latter and which was former
people keep telling me but I always forget
Former is the one before the latter
17:03
I thought you were British, id est, native English speaker.
I am
but former and latter are in the same category as "thee" and "thy", they're quite worthless and it would be much easier just to say "first" and "second"
latter = last, former = first.
just look at the first letters
Not an Expert™ then?
Als
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: All British are Not necessarily correct english speakers
@Als That's not true. The devolved regions, and Ireland, do additionally speak other languages, but English is still the primary language of all of the British Isles
@RMartinhoFernandes An Expert™ on English from the current century, I never said I was an expert on historical English
Als
Als
17:06
@DeadMG: You missed the correct bit in my sentence. They might speak English not necessarily correct
the definition of correct English is the language spoken by the English people
Yeah, fuck USA.
Als
Als
@DeadMG: Not really, It is what was put in the English dictionaries
and they update themselves to include plenty of new things every year
including surprises like "lol", which is now an official English word
Als
Als
@DeadMG: how does that, substantiate the statement "the definition of correct English is the language spoken by the English people".
17:08
well, the English dictionaries update themselves to reflect the English language spoken by the English people
I'm not sure how official you can get in English.
It's not like there's a standard or something.
Dictionaries shouldn't define the language, it leads to stupid definitions.
the English dictionary is nothing but a codification of the spoken language, and it may lag behind, and it's not more correct
Als
Als
@DeadMG: I don't think it is limited in scope to English people anymore
English-speaking people maybe?
17:09
lots of people speak French, but that never stopped the French government from changing their language
so what happens when not all english speakers agree on a word? They're all by definition correct?
Als
Als
@CatPlusPlus: A cat fucking uncle sam is one thing i will have to see to imagine :P
I think yes @jalf
armor and armour, color and colour center and centre
are both correct english
It's BrE vs AmE.
@jalf: You end up with dialects- just like American
17:10
@hexa but both of those are used by a lot of people
@DeadMG And what's English then? The collection of all dialects?
and both forms are considered correct
If I read @DeadMG's argument correctly, then it doesn't matter how many people agree on a "dialect". It's by definition correct and official
Als
Als
Since english has evolved in to a language used globally, It follows more or less what english speaking people would use
I guess it'd extend to typos too
@jalf Ok, now you're getting silly.
From now on, I speak Cat English, and all my sentences are now correct.
I mean, sillier than you should.
there is a certain necessity of momentum implied before you could actually become a dialect
There are scholars, hard core nerds, that study solely this subject.
17:12
@RMartinhoFernandes look at where the discussion started: @DeadMG disagreeing with the statement that not all British people speak correct english
Als
Als
And now let the fine wine and women be served!
the only way in which that can be true is if every dialect, every mistake and misunderstood word, every typo is valid and official english
Does it include non-native speakers?
Als
Als
@jalf: It started at where @DeadMG said all english people speak correct english
@jalf stop treating english like a programming language. it is not and that type of rule do not apply.
17:13
well, if you wish to be pedantic, I never said that they spoke correct english all of the time
@hexa I think that's kind of the point he's trying to make.
@hexa I'm not the one making that argument
Who cares if it's 'correct', as long as you can communicate it works.
and yes, if wrong english is spoken enough it will eventually be incorporated
@jalf @RMartinhoFernandes Oh my bad then, misunderstood
English as a language is defined by the English people, and therefore, on the whole, the English people speak correct English
kind of by definition
Als
Als
17:14
7 mins ago, by DeadMG
the definition of correct English is the language spoken by the English people
INCORRECT
The English people is the people of England, right?
yes, but that wasn't what you said before. You were saying that it is untrue that there are British who do not speak english correctly
Als
Als
@RMartinhoFernandes: As I understand right now @DeadMG, meant so.
That had nothing to do with what people "on the whole" speak "most of the time"
then you misunderstood what I said
Als
Als
17:15
@jalf: That is the pedantic implementation detail lol
@DeadMG how did I misunderstand the words "@Als That's not true"?
I'm pretty sure "that's not true" has exactly one, and only one, meaning in English
correct me if I'm wrong
It's a plot twist!
Perhaps you misunderstood or misread the statement you were responding to
Oh, Firefox 6.0
for example by not noticing the "correctly" word as @Als said
17:17
I think you'll find that, specifically, the rest of what I said in that statement referred to other languages
i.e., something like Cyrillic
which is spoken, even officially, in Wales
I'm pretty sure you'll find that the thing I quoted is what I disagreed with
Isn't Cyrillic an alphabet?
If "all X do not Y" is not true, then "not all X do not Y" is true.
I don't see how your different argument about people in Wales is, or was, at all relevant
yeah, I was just thinking do I mean Cyrillic or Celtic
well, I read what he said as implying that some British people do not speak English, as in, were never educated in the language and are incapable of speaking it, much like I can't speak Japanese
17:18
Yeah I am pretty sure Cryillic is an alphabet
Isn't it called Welsh these days? :P
Als
Als
@DeadMG: Why not just agree you slipped on that one than keep arguing that you really meant that?
@DeadMG Like I said, you misread him. Then it's kind of BS to say that I "misunderstood" you.
@CatPlusPlus Dunno, the only attention I ever paid to it was the hilarious mistranslations :P
Is it that hard to admit that "oops, I didn't notice a word in the sentence I commented on"?
without accusing everyone else of misunderstanding you
17:20
So i take it no one was interested in the recordings of different accents of spoken english?
I was pretty specific about what I was talking about
I am pretty sure Cryillic is not an alphabet.
Als
Als
@DeadMG: And you were specifically wrong
The Cyrillic script () or azbuka is an alphabetic writing system developed in the First Bulgarian Empire during the 10th century AD at the Preslav Literary School. It is the basis of alphabets used in various languages, past and present, of Eastern Europe and Asia, especially those of Slavic origin, and also non-Slavic languages influenced by Russian. Cyrillic is derived from the Ancient Greek uncial script, augmented by ligatures and consonants from the older Glagolitic alphabet for sounds not found in Ancient Greek. It is named in honor of the two Byzantine Greek brothers, Saints Cyri...
I don't see any Cryillic in that.
You know what? Screw your lousy languages. We are getting a standard! :P
17:22
@RMartinhoFernandes I only wish there was a worldwide standard language.
even if we created a worldwide Standard language, it would just diverge anyway
@DeadMG Yes. Look at what I quoted. You replied to a specific chat message, with the precise words "that's not true". That is very specific, and what you said were wrong
@Collecter Some tried. Look up Esperanto.
the simple fact is that people make up language as they go along
And Esperanto is just the most successful attempt.
And it's not a big success.
17:23
@DeadMG you mean, in the time between reading Als' sentence and formulating your reply? That's some pretty speedy language evolution
and I guess it underlines my point that as I interpret your statement, any mistake made by any English language speaker is instantly and implicitly made officially correct english
Als
Als
@DeadMG: And we are moving off the point of argument
@jalf That is kind of cool.
After all, you just decided to redefine the words "that's not true"
so I guess we agree then?
Als
Als
@jalf: Duh, You actually wrote that eh
what's up code monkeys?
17:25
@Als what? That according to @DeadMG, self-declared expert in English, anything said by an English speaker automatically becomes correct English? Yes, I said that was the only logical conclusion to his statement
I still think it's rather silly, but hey, I'm not the English speaker around here
Als
Als
@jalf: We are in agreement over that.
@DeadMG is an expert?
@TonyTheTiger My sarcasmeter never fails me.
Als
Als
I had the same argument, not necessarily every british speaks correct english
and @DeadMG, claimed they do
@RMartinhoFernandes yea I had no idea sarcasm
@Als that's true, and I have lived in Britain longer then most non-British people in this room
17:27
anyway, I'd better go fix some dinner
Als
Als
@TonyTheTiger: What's true?
@RMartinhoFernandes yea right, you failed to see that coming, however
@Als the latter
oh no, that discussion was earlier
that not every Brit necessarily speaks good well formed English
lol, can't spell anymore
Als
Als
@TonyTheTiger: God damn, We are on same side then, lol
and your thats true gave me a impression you are on other side
@TonyTheTiger No problem, just say you're making up new words ;)
Als
Als
*keeps his dagger back
:P
17:29
@Als I fail to parse this
that is not well formed english
Als
Als
@TonyTheTiger: I aint no brit matie Aye :P
I was playing with boost::serialization earlier, seems fairly convenient and easy to use interface
thought I don't understand how by implementing a private template function called serialize you get the behavior. Can anyone shed a light?
lulz
	friend class boost::serialization::access;
	template<typename Archive>
	void serialize(Archive & ar, const unsigned int version)
	{
		ar & lines;
	}
like this is what you'd add to a class so you can serialize it.
hmmm, this function is never explicitly invoked by me
not sure how it could work?
Serializer calls it.
17:46
oh cause it's a friend class?
Als
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Wow for a change my rep today looks like the Skeet guy
:P
oh kewl
for some reason I had the idea that with Boost.Python you can write a Python interpreter. Am I wrong?
Als
Als
@TonyTheTiger: Python & Women I never understood them well, Haven't touched either in a long time, So wrong person to ask the Q. :)
@TonyTheTiger No, B.P is for interfacing with CPython.
Als
Als
18:00
I have never worked on Python to be frank actually.
know any part of Boost that would be fun to experiment with?
@CatPlusPlus oh I see
@CatPlusPlus but you can use CPython to write a python interpreter, right?
CPython is a Python interpreter.
oh, so what interfacing can you do then with B.P? I mean I read you write a class or library in C++ and call it from Python, but is that as far as it goes?
You can expose C++ classes as Python types, and functions.
@CatPlusPlus well, you could write a python interpreter in python running on cpython
18:11
@jalf PyPy already did it.
18:27
that doesn't run on cpython, does it?
@TonyTheTiger I know a part of Boost that's NOT fun to experiment with... Boost.Graph. I'm sure there are some really good reasons why it's designed the way it is--people much savvier than I review this stuff. But I had a heck of a time figuring out how to use it and it's not used by a ton of people so just Googling around is not much help.
This is great. "Ok, I'll have to recompile my entire system. This will take like forever, so I'll just leave it running while I'm at work." I go to work, and I return home at the end of the day. The compilation had stopped about 10 minutes after it started.
18:42
happens to every linux guy
I should have left an SSH daemon running.
18:59
@sbi, @Als?
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB What's up?
So, I'm looking at Meyer#3's #49, "new handler".
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB What's "Meyer#3's #49"? MEC++, item 49?
Oh, this pertains to this FAQ entry
Edition 3
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB EC++, 3rd, item 49?
19:00
Yes, oh I see, there are several distinct titles.
Yes
The FAQ entry never mentions the new handler
Now, the C++11 FDIS only says "an allocation function can invoke the currently installed new handler"
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB That's true, it doesn't go that deep.
But Meyers seems to be pretty insistent that a conforming new operator should always have an infinite loop calling the handler, until either the handler provides memory, or there's no more handler.
sbi
sbi
I always felt like overloading new and delete ought to have its own topic. In a general operator overloading topic, this can only get a mentioning.
I suppose. Maybe a side note saying that a conforming implementation needs a bit more attention?
@jalf It can. PyPy is a Python interpreter (well, now it's a bit more) written in Python.
19:03
Also, it's mandated that you either return a null pointer or throw something convertible to bad_alloc in the event of failure.
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB Actually, I don't say anything about the implementation of the allocation/deallocation functions, I only speak about the syntax. And, within the operator overloading topic, I'd rather keep it so.
@sbi I see, fair enough.
sbi
sbi
Well, I'll add a note at the top saying this explicitly. I'm willing to add links to good further material on the topic at the bottom, if someone provides them.
I see, that's OK, the FAQ article isn't a guide on how to write new operators, it just says what their signature would be if you wanted to write one. No problem.
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB So I'm willing to mention to EC++. Is it only item 49, or is there more to it?
19:13
It's really Item 51
Better even, Chapter 8
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB Ok. And only #51?
@KerrekSB Ah, I see.
Entire chapter devoted to new and delete!
mention the edition
#51 specifically mentions the infinite loop; #49 says abstractly that that's the expected implementation.
Third edition. Let me check the cross-reference table...
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB Yeah, I just remembered I have my own copy of EC++, 3rd. :-x
I just looked it up and would refer to chapter 8, really.
@hexa I will.
19:15
Items 7-10 in the Second Edition, allegedly.
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB I only have a CD of that, no book.
Well, given the OP's question, it seems that people do occasionally have situations which call for new replacement.
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB I'd rather not refer to an old version, though.
But I just dragged out TCP, 3rd, as I'm sure Stroustrup deals with this, too. Lemme look...
@sbi I wish I had a digital version. I was looking for something yesterday to make my case in a debate against Tomalak concerning object lifetimes, but I couldn't find the passage by searching on paper :-(
@sbi How much is TCP relevant to the standard? Does one follow the other closely?
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB The 3rd (and later the 4th) edition was written to C++98.
19:18
I'm pretty excited about EC++ 4th edition, with proper C++11 treatment. With all the cool new stuff, there's plenty of opportunity for entirely new chapters.
@sbi So the book is entirely standard compliant?
(Mmm, I don't think I have a digital copy of that one, either...)
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB C++98, as I said. He didn't update it for C++03. I suppose, though, he'll release a new version for C++11.
@KerrekSB Ha, I haven't heard Scott talking about a c++11-compliant edition of EC++ at all, and knowing him I suspect he'll wait with writing a best-practices book until best practices have emerged. He's very thorough in researching all his topics.
@sbi I think someone mentioned in an interview (might have been Herb Sutter on a Channel9 Q&A on C++0x) that we should all wait for that :-) Maybe that was just optimism!
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB Well, I agree to that: we shall have to wait for it. :)
Anyway, I couldn't find anything interesting regarding overloading new and delete in TCPL, 3rd, so I guess I must have read about it in earlier editions. (I'm pretty sure I remember Stroustrup having written about how to implement such beasts.)
So I guess, I'll just mention EC++, 3rd then.
Well, the standard does mandate that the default behaviour of global-new is a loop.
But I suppose that doesn't mean than any replacement also has to loop
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB Which isn't the same as saying that it should not loop.
19:29
I mean, clients could expect that if they have a magic new handler that makes more memory, then that should continue to work with replaced new operators, but apparently that's not mandated
@sbi No, certainly not
@sbi I haven't checked, but if you haven't spelled it out, it's better to disambiguate it from Herb's Exceptional C++.
They really aren't very creative about the names, are they.
sbi
sbi
@JerryCoffin I linked to Amazon. :)
@sbi that should work (though personally I'd rather link almost anywhere else...)
@CatPlusPlus Haha, that's actually true.
Makes you want to write a book, "Exception-safe C++".
Or maybe for recovering Java programmers, "Acceptable C++".
4
sbi
sbi
19:33
@CatPlusPlus Effective C++, Exceptional C++, Essential C++, Efficient C++, Accelerated C++... Interestingly enough, this encompasses a fair amount of pretty well-respected C++ books. :)
@JerryCoffin Where to? Scott's site? Maybe a good idea.
But he just links to Amazon, too!
@sbi He has links to Amazon, but elsewhere as well.
@KerrekSB ...or How I Learned to Relax and Love the RAII.
@JerryCoffin That would actually be a useful book!
It would also reduce the opportunities to make SO reputation
@KerrekSB C++ Enterprise Edition.
@KerrekSB Based on the number of people who seem to ask questions without (apparently) having read a decent book on C++, I doubt it would make much difference.
@CatPlusPlus To keep with the theme of E-something C++, I think Enterprisey C++ is a better fit.
19:50
Elementary C++ ("if you can do it, so can anybody else"). Economical C++ (reduce, reuse, recycle).
Question: Are calling conventions part of the C++ standard?
Extensible C++. Lots and lots of XML.
Excentric C++
2
Exquisite.
Wait a sec, let me grab a dictionary.
19:52
Ecumenical C++: In the beginning there was the constructor, and He was new. (Later there'll be a schism over whether He's a Singleton.)
3
I thought about that one, too, but mostly because of DCSS.
hey
I just repaired my phone by melting the plastic covering the power plug and soldering copper wires directly into it.
@KerrekSB Only to the extent that it defines extern "C" and extern "C++", and leaves open the possibility that some other string in the quotes could be valid as well.
It does not, however, go into any detail about what either of those (or anything else in the quotes) really does.
I nominate "Erotic C++".
4
Anybody want to bet how long it'll take Tony to show up? :-)
20:16
Less than 24 hours.
@Collecter That's cheating -- he virtually never goes for more that 24 hours without getting his fix.
@JerryCoffin Put more restrictions on your betting system next time.
No restrictions -- but the closest bet wins.
@JerryCoffin That is a restriction. My bet gets grandfathered in under the old rules though.
I'll phrase my bet more interestingly: I'll bet it's before SO hits 2,000,000 questions.
@Collecter not a restriction, just a previously unstated rule! :-)
20:20
@JerryCoffin All rules are restrictions.
@Collecter You seem to be trying to restrict my rules.
@JerryCoffin Do not try to reverse the arguement.
@Collecter And now you're trying to restrict my actions as well as my rules!
I swear all of you have read Schopenhauer's rules to never lose an argument.
@JerryCoffin Now you are trying to restrict my restricting your rules!
@Collecter I didn't try to restrict anything -- just pointed out what you were doing.
20:26
@JerryCoffin I won. Tony is here.
Pay up five virtual cash.
@Collecter Done.
@JerryCoffin Oh joy!
@JerryCoffin You won also, so I payed it back.
@Collecter How? I don't see five new virtual cash in my account.
@JerryCoffin Does the function that returns only new no longer give you cash?
@Collecter Sorry, but I didn't quite follow that.
20:32
@JerryCoffin Forget it
I am going for now, see ya.
@Collecter Later.
20:49
anybody used boost::filesystem here?
I have a function taking a directory_entry, and I want to pass each entry in this for_each loop, through boost::bind, don't really know what variable to pass as the entry?
std::for_each(boost::filesystem::directory_iterator(fp),         boost::filesystem::directory_iterator(), boost::bind(iterate_dirs));
fp is a boost::filesystem::path object
why are you using for_each? simply use a for
.
my silly-question detector lighted up:
0
Q: Stack overflow error when adding a member to a class in huge solution

VadimPlease look at this code: class A { int a; }; Then add one more member to class A: class A { int a; int b; }; In my huge solution when I add one more member to a class (like member b in class A) I get stack overflow error. I assume that this is somehow related to writing to not reserved dat...

so says i should vote on questions, should i vote this down?
ok i voted
21:05
I think the problem is more that the question does not really contain enough data to give a good answer
vote to close I say
kempe gött
sbi
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach Jeg snakker ikke norsk!
@sbi: oh. it was just "Man of One Way" posting "kempe gött", which is sort of Swedish for "very good" about food. so i posted him a number of videos of people applying to be TV cooks, making chicken balls with spaghetti. it's also an example of extremely bad web design. all flash...
i hate flash
sbi
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach Flash is pretty good for when you want to know whether your machine's fans still work.
perhaps. i dunno about cpu usage. just that it's not linkable, and that it requires latest plugin, and that it's a malware vector, and that each such "page" has its own UI conventions
i think it would be nice if something like Mozilla XUL could be standardized
like a standard for Ajax apps where it's not part of standard that it must leak memory
21:41
@AlfPSteinbach Enough crappy pages don't use flash that it would be at least equally easy to blame HTML. Either can be used well or poorly -- the main problem is that most web designers are grossly incompetent at animation, movies, or viewers for either one.
@JerryCoffin Hm, I meant things like __cdecl and __fastcall. I was just thinking about signatures and function pointers, and the calling convention is part of that, but I couldn't see how that follows from the standard.
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB The two leading underscores are a give-away that these are compiler-specific extensions, not standardized keywords.
@sbi Good point
Though those seem to be a very wide-spread extension, and part of the C ABI, non?
it is a kind of failure of the standard though, isn't it. i mean i have never seen extern "Pascal", or whatever. but i think that was the intention
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB I think all compilers on Windows support them, yeah. Still, the C++ standard will likely not say a single word about them.
21:53
@AlfPSteinbach But extern "C" doesn't specify the calling convention, does it? Only the name mangling. You can still have __stdcall and __cdecl inside that.
How would you get __fastcall... extern "Fast"?
sbi
sbi
@KerrekSB I think the standard is silent about what extern "X" really does, it only says that it allows to call functions declared as "X" from C++. It's possible to imagine a platform where extern "C" requires a different calling convention than C++ functions.
I see. Well, it makes sense that the standard wouldn't say anything specific I guess.

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