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7:00 AM
 
Man, that suspension thing really shook you. You keep deleting anything that has the slightest chance of being flagged.
 
@StackedCrooked Just walk up to a fine lady, and say the following magic words: "Is that a mirror in your pocket? Because I can see myself in your pants...."
 
^ This image is the where the quote "Fuck you with a cactus" is appropriate.
 
@StackedCrooked Indeed.
 
@Josh did you test it?
 
7:01 AM
@StackedCrooked Pfft - I'm married right?
 
@Josh do you like ice cream? with strawberries?
 
@StackedCrooked Honest question? Is that like when someone says "I LITERALLY died when when she told me that..."
@StackedCrooked Aye. The best kind.
@MartinhoFernandes fell out of my chair
 
Anyway, as I said, the decorator design pattern truly is my favorite.
 
I love the duality of @MartinhoFernandes seriousness and @StackedCrooked's comedic interjection. I could chat all night.
 
7:04 AM
It's morning.
 
@StackedCrooked I thought you said it was the visitatator [sic] pattern?
 
The composite pattern is nice too, as is the bridge pattern.
 
Dammit. My laptop's AC adapter doesn't work.
It beeps repeatedly. A faint beep, but it's clear if I put it close to my ear.
WTF?
 
@Josh No I didn't say that. The job candidates for Steve Yegge said that.
@MartinhoFernandes Just recharge it.
 
@StackedCrooked Nothing like the paisley pattern. Actually invented by the fifth member of the gang of four, it was meant to overcome bitmask arithmetic, but only with subtraction.
 
7:06 AM
@StackedCrooked It's not a battery.
 
@Martinho, hmm.. you have a point there.
 
Of course it is. I cannot chat without power.
 
Well, can't you plug it in?
 
What is a cl? Cubic Liter?
 
Or is it a like a netbook?
 
7:09 AM
Whoa - your letter 'e' escaped and jumped straight out the end of your word!
liter -> 'e' makes an escape -> litre
 
@StackedCrooked To plug it, I need a working AC/DC adapter.
Which, apparently, I don't have anymore :(
 
@MartinhoFernandes Is it a Dell?
 
Toshiba.
 
@MartinhoFernandes You don't have the adaptor to your laptop anymore?
 
It's beeping and doesn't charge.
 
7:11 AM
@MartinhoFernandes how unconvenient for you...
 
@MartinhoFernandes Maybe unplug it an plug it back in...sort of like resetting the adaptor's state?
 
Tried that.
Keeps beeping.
 
Could it be a driver problem?
 
How long did you let the circuit drain? It's probably got a big ol' inductor in there if it's a switching psu, and thay could take a minute or so to completely flatline.
 
7:13 AM
I let it completely unplugged for about an hour.
 
Wow. Ok, that's not it then...
Is it a 3 prong connector or 2? Maybe it's a ground fault detection?
(I'll admit I'm reaching here...)
 
2. There's no ground prong.
 
No ground prong? Is that normal?
 
> Your laptops mainboard is toast.
This guy must be a genius.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Who said that?
 
7:17 AM
@Josh Wait, for clarity, I'm in Europe, so the 3-prong connectors have two prongs and a hole for the ground coonnection.
 
I googled around a bit, looks like Toshiba laptop psu's do indeed beep when they die.
 
The connector has that, but the wall outlet doesn't have a ground prong to connect.
And it has worked so far.
@Josh Yeah, that's what I gathered too :(
 
@MartinhoFernandes Ah, that would have been my next question...
 
@StackedCrooked Hey! That's not fair! Editing starred messages to make them completely star-unworthy!
 
Starred messages?
 
7:19 AM
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I saw that...thought maybe something weird was going on
 
I don't see the stars that you are referring to.. Hm.. strange..
 
@StackedCrooked Here comes the edit.
 
@Josh what are you talking about?
 
@StackedCrooked The history underneath the pencil.
 
user53670
Hello
 
user53670
7:21 AM
everyone
 
Hello Kim, nice to meet you.
 
user53670
..
 
Can we help you?
 
user53670
maybe
 
user53670
I want to improve my c++ skils
 
7:22 AM
@Kim then you should first of all read the book "Effective C++" (3rd edition) by Scott Meyers.
 
user53670
I have read
 
user53670
I want to rewrite some project in c++
 
@Kim you did? That's very good. Then I would recommend "Modern C++ Design"
 
@Kim Find an open source project written in c++ that interests you, and hack on it.
 
user53670
My job is to hack on operating system written in C++
 
7:24 AM
@Kim do you realize that rewriting a project is in most cases an unwise decision?
 
@Kim Checkout c++ projects on github - you'll find a ton of neat software
@Kim Which OS?
 
user53670
But just hacking and bugfixing is not interesting
 
user53670
not published os in a company
 
"So, vacation. I'll finally get to finish that BitTorrent client I started months ago." And now I can't use my laptop :(
FUUUU-
 
@MartinhoFernandes That really sucks.
 
7:26 AM
@Kim then I recommend that you read the book "Working Effectively with Legacy Code".
 
@StackedCrooked Is that all what you're going to recommend? And endless stream of books?
 
@MartinhoFernandes You could always write the code with pencil and paper... :]
 
@MartinhoFernandes books can be very helpful.
 
user53670
Books are good. But there is not enough feature developing in my job
 
@Kim pick something. Anything. And hope your AC/DC adapter doesn't die on you when you're about to start coding.
 
user53670
7:27 AM
How can I improve my developing ability
 
Read stuff. Write code.
 
@Kim you will learn from books and from practical experience. Sometimes from blogs as well.
 
@Kim That is a really subjective question, to which @StackedCrooked and I have offered some opinions, which you didn't like... I don't know what else to say. Maybe someone else can chime in.
 
@Kim don't mind @StackedCrooked. He's a bit... tipsy.
 
Morning is truly the nicest time of the day.
 
user53670
7:29 AM
I dont know what to pick. Rewrite something or where to find something?
 
@StackedCrooked ?
 
@StackedCrooked You're not Kim, are you?
 
user53670
He is not me
 
@Kim Github has a lot of projects and you can search by language, you could also check out freshmeat or sourceforge, too
 
Has anyone realized that the much ridiculed "COMEFROM" statement actually could be useful for implementing decorator-like behavior?
 
user53670
7:30 AM
How to join these project developing
 
@StackedCrooked @StackedCrooked heh...yeah....ok... maybe it's time to call it an evening...
 
user53670
on github
 
@Kim Shoot them an email. Tell them you are interested in their project and you would like to help. Be honest about your ability and how you would like to contribute.
 
@Kim grab the code, hack on it, and them submit it to the authors.
 
@Kim Specifically with git the email addresses are par for the course with the commits, so they are easily accessible and generally correct.
 
user53670
7:32 AM
I would try
 
On Github, what @MartinhoFernandes is suggesting is called a "pull request"
 
@Kim there are various ways to improve your C++ skills: read good C++ books, start your own C++ project, or start working for a company that develops software created in C++.
 
Want to write a BitTorrent client? I'm working on one :)
 
> sorry, unimplemented: mangling constructor|
Curse you GCC!
 
@Kim even if you currently have little experience in C++ you still have a chance at getting a C++ job if you demonstrate a great interest and willingness to learn.
 
7:34 AM
@LucDanton If GCC was a person, she would have shot you long time ago.
 
user53670
@Martinho cool
 
@MartinhoFernandes Are you doing something different or is it mostly just educational?
 
@LucDanton Hm, how queer..
 
I'm doing it to learn C++.
I'm a newbie :)
This is my first C++ project.
 
user53670
@StackedCrook: I get a job about hacking os written in c++. just hacking is boring
 
7:36 AM
I think I'll install Code::Blocks on my work laptop and work there until I get a replacement adapter :(
 
@MartinhoFernandes why Code::Blocks?
 
Huh, because that's what I picked.
 
Is it particularly low on power consumption?
 
@MartinhoFernandes Ah... all your out.write()'s make sense, they betray your true C background :P
 
I prefer June to July actually.
 
7:38 AM
@StackedCrooked No. My work laptop is fine. My personal laptop is broken now.
@Josh No, they don't!
It's unformatted output.
What else would I use?
 
@MartinhoFernandes I'm just setting you off, man... bass on topwater :)
 
But yes, I have a C background :(
 
Seems like a nice day today..
Perhaps I should go visit a lake and swim.
Nah, that's not really my thing...
 
Maybe that's not a good idea after 3 litres of beer.
Oh buggers.
 
Visual Studio 10 has decent C++0x support currently.
 
7:43 AM
I need GCC 4.6.
MinGW only supports 4.5.
 
2
A: Methods for storing login information in database

rcravensThere are two camps in this security discussion: Don't store the passwords in your DB. This usually means leveraging OAuth or equivalent. You will need to store a 'token' that uniquely identifies the user. This 'token' is provided by the authentication service that you select. The service also ...

Lots of misinformation about what salt is
 
BBQ is nice in the summer.
 
Not to just pick on that guy, the other top answer confuses salt with padding too
 
But french fries are nice as well.
 
@Josh His salt will get hashed.
 
7:45 AM
@StackedCrooked Something about the road to hell is paved with good intentions...
 
It's just a crappy way of adding the salt, but it gets hashed.
 
@MartinhoFernandes ? That's padding man
 
@Josh He's concatenating here right?
 
But I don't like the mention that the salt can be unique.
It should be unique.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah, unique and unpredictable
@LucDanton Yes. The problem is what he is doing is adding padding. Salt is left in plain sight along with the hash.
 
7:47 AM
I also like a simple salad in the summer.
 
There is nothing wrong with using padding, but it's no subsititue for salt, and indeed serves an entirely different purpose.
In cryptography, a salt consists of random bits, creating one of the inputs to a one-way function. The other input is usually a password or passphrase. The output of the one-way function can be stored rather than the password, and still be used for authenticating users. The one-way function typically uses a cryptographic hash function. A salt can also be combined with a password by a key derivation function such as PBKDF2 to generate a key for use with a cipher or other cryptographic algorithm. In a typical usage for password authentication, the salt is stored along with the output of th...
 
@Josh Okay but I'm pretty sure you meant 'yes' instead of 'no' here.
 
"the salt is stored along with the output of" key part
@LucDanton Ah yes, correct. Getting those two confused always gets me in trouble with boolean logic :)
 
I can see how that would be problematic.
 
Oh boy, two MD5 recommendations.
 
7:50 AM
@LucDanton Yes. And those answers are factually incorrect and get upvotes. I'm not just picking on them - I see confusion over what salt is all the time on SO.
@MartinhoFernandes Yeah, lets not even go there...
@MartinhoFernandes Have you seen this? md5.rednoize.com
 
@Josh Have you seen this? mscs.dal.ca/~selinger/md5collision
:)
C:\TEMP> md5sum hello.exe
cdc47d670159eef60916ca03a9d4a007
C:\TEMP> .\hello.exe
Hello, world!

(press enter to quit)
C:\TEMP>
C:\TEMP> md5sum erase.exe
cdc47d670159eef60916ca03a9d4a007
C:\TEMP> .\erase.exe
This program is evil!!!
Erasing hard drive...1Gb...2Gb... just kidding!
Nothing was erased.

(press enter to quit)
C:\TEMP>
 
@MartinhoFernandes Yes. Pretty interesting stuff, but then I'm a crypto geek, the lowest kind of geek...
@MartinhoFernandes Nice! Did you write that?
 
I think this is an example drastic enough to convince people to get rid of MD5.
@Josh It's in the link I posted.
It explains how to make two different C programs have the same MD5 hash.
 
Is there a way to determine maximum stack size at runtime?
 
@StackedCrooked int stackframes = 0; int f() { return stackframes++; f(); }
Wait for overflow.
 
7:54 AM
@Josh How is it supposed to work? I fed it a hash and it wasn't found (I expect I did it wrong though).
 
@MartinhoFernandes How about a function that returns a value?
 
@MartinhoFernandes Well, that doesn't seem like a convenient unit for measuring though ;)
 
@LucDanton Well, that IS how it is supposed to work. It's quite possible it doesn't have values for all hashes
 
@LucDanton I think it's just a database, not cracking the hashes in realtime.
An online rainbow table.
 
Bear in mind too - any hash as infinite collisions, so I imagine that site probably picks text that appears to be meaningful for a given hash, e.g. words and such
 
7:56 AM
@Josh I'm not sure I understand the point of the site unless there's a set of files that get repeatedly md5-hashed by everyone else in the world?
 
@MartinhoFernandes I think the solution would be to launch a subprocess with a size argument, and this subprocess would then allocates the amount of memory indicated by its size argument. The return value of the sub-process will indicate whether the process has succeeded in allocating the memory, or if it crashed due to stack overflow.
 
@LucDanton Ah... it's basically meant for passwords, not files. What you are attempting is not possible.
 
@Josh What's the difference?
 
@Josh That's a relief.
 
A file is just a very long password.
 
7:57 AM
There is a loss of information going from file to hash. You can't get a file back from a hash.
If so, that would be some stellar, Shannon defying compression you found :P
 
You can't get the original file, but you can get a file ;)
 
Well it can't recognize 'password', I'm disappointed.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Infinite files, in fact.
 
@LucDanton Maybe it's case-sensitive?
 
@LucDanton I'm certain the md5 of 'password' is in there.... if that isn't working the site is broken or something.
 
7:59 AM
i.e. 0-9A-F instead of 0-9a-f, or vice-versa.
I can't get any hashes to be found.
Seems like it's borken.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Well that sucks... hopefully it will come back online soon. I've used that in a live demo to show a developer why he shouldn't store his passwords as unsalted md5 hashes before. They don't forget that!
 
I think I prefer raspberry after all...
 
@Josh I much prefer the "evilize" example :)
Much scarier.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Oh yeah :)
 
It's like: here, have this hello world.
Take note of its hash.
Run it and note the output, then delete it.
Now have it again (give him erase.exe).
Check the hash to make sure I'm not fooling you.
Run it.
 
8:04 AM
Yeah, this kind of thing doesn't help either -> pbeblog.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/…
 
I don't get it. I had an internship and had to look up things about security and I never stumbled onto this kind of thing.
 
What kind of thing? MD5 being broken?
 
Recommending md5 + mistaking how a salt really works.
 
It's all over the web, really. :(
@Josh the link in your last comment is broken.
Needs a closing parenthesis.
Or if Markdown borks on it, use %29.
 
IIRC the tl;dr of my research was 'use TLS, there's two implementations'. It's hard to get it wrong when the work has already been done.
 
8:08 AM
@MartinhoFernandes Sorry, too late to edit the post :(
 
@Josh I meant on the question! You still have 3 minutes.
@LucDanton TLS is for transport, not for storage, right?
 
Correct.
I didn't have that to solve.
(The salt stuff IIRC I researched for the interview, not the actual internship.)
 
That might explain why you didn't run into kids suggesting MD5.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Thanks. Corrected.
Guys, 3AM is my cutoff... to bed with me. Hopefully I'll see you all again soon... it's been fun!
 
Cya
 
8:11 AM
Good night.
 
night
 
Nice. Found a MinGW package with GCC 4.6 and boost 1.46.1.
 
So you're stuck on Windows with your work laptop?
 
No <thread> for you!
 
8:16 AM
What?
 
Not supported on Windows ATM.
Only for pthread.
 
Ah. I won't be needing threads for a while. By then I'll probably have a replacement adapter.
 
Of course you don't miss anything with boost::thread (more features, actually).
 
8:28 AM
Ok, now let's see if I can still make this.
 
8:41 AM
@MartinhoFernandes nuwen?
 
great package
 
Yeah, it's awesome. It also brings FreeType, SDL and GLEW. I'm not needing that, but it's nice to know I can count on that if I need it.
 
Interesting. My last mental note regarding development on Windows was TDM-GCC
 
I think we need to advertise it more.
 
8:44 AM
Heh it's still GCC 4.5, nevermind.
 
That's a no-no for me. I need 4.6 features.
 
Get GCC 4.6.0 and Boost 1.46.1 in a neat package. No strings attached, except for std::string of course!
3
 
In some cases interpreted languages are better than compile ones.
 
And which cases would that be?
 
Web development, for example.
 
8:47 AM
Defined "interpreted" and "compiled".
Is Java usually interpreted or compiled?
 
Then, 'better'.
 
Java is half.
 
@MartinhoFernandes I'd say compiled, because you get lots of help from the compiler with errors.
 
@FredOverflow That's static typing.
I think nowadays, we have blurred the distinction between compiled and interpreted too much.
 
Static typing is just one aspect.
 
8:49 AM
The reflection api makes it siimilar to an interpreted language.
 
How does JIT-compilation affect the picture?
 
Erm, how much space does VS 2010 need? Hope I don't need to run gparted again...
 
Gigs. Several.
 
great tool, though
For years I had worked with an 8 GiB c: partition, and I increased that to 16 GiB lately.
 
Oh noes, Fred has been converted!
He uses that new-fangled notation for gigs!
 
8:51 AM
I have been using them for years.
How is being able to distinguish between powers of 1000 and 1024 not great?
 
I only care for order of magnitude most of the time. I don't mind being 2.4% or however much off.
 
And anyways, context distinguishes it.
 
The last parameter of SetWindowsHookEx() is threadId; "The identifier of the thread with which the hook procedure is to be associated. If this parameter is zero, the hook procedure is associated with all existing threads running in the same desktop as the calling thread." - what does "same desktop as the calling thread" mean? - not sure if this is the correct chat
I'm talking about the Win32 API.
 
@LucDanton Well, with gigabytes, you're already 7.4% off...
@MartinhoFernandes according to the installer, 7 gigs. That's almost half of my c: space...
 
Can't you cut that down? Like, no C#s or VBs.
(Unless you're already doing that, or you want that.)
 
8:59 AM
I almost always go with full installations, because I fear I might disable something I might need later on...
Also, why wouldn't I want to install C#? ;-)
 
I don't know, maybe because you don't plan to use it and have little free space?
 
But C# has so many neat features to play with!
 
I know that.
Have you tried the Async CTP?
 
damnit, I need to restart my computer during the VS installation? see you later...
@MartinhoFernandes Nope, but from the video I have seen, it looks really exciting.
 
I've been wanting to mess with it, but I can't think of something cool to write.
 
9:05 AM
a common problem amongst programmers :-)
> I've got a shiny new hammer, now where are my nails?
 
Ooh, nifty. I've posted my first answer on Code Review and I already have the Mortarboard badge :)
 
@MartinhoFernandes I always read that as "Motherboard" first :)
 
Aargh! GCC Y U no link?
 
@MartinhoFernandes What?
 
hey
 
9:17 AM
I can't get my code to link correctly on Windows.
I keep getting
> undefined reference to `boost::system::generic_category()’
 
Maybe that's a part of Boost that needs to be compiled? Dunno.
 
Let's insure against a common mistake: what's the order of object files/library on the command line?
 
Or maybe you simply forgot to link?
 
I thought the nuwen distro had that compiled.
 
First the dependencies, then the dependees.
 
9:19 AM
can someone explain me this declaration
template <typename elm, Foo<elm> elm::* offset>
class Bar { // snip.. }
 
Show us the command line, that's a good idea.
 
SO says it doesn't meets the quality standards
 
@sud03r elm::* offset is a pointer to member, if that's your problem...
 
@sud03r offset is a non-type template parameter that is a pointer to member.
 
yes
experts, elaborate a bit more
i don't know much of templates
 
9:21 AM
This is what I'm getting: pastebin.com/2FGWreY4
 
template<typename T> ...: T is a type template parameter.
template<int I> ...: I is a non-type template parameter.
template<int* P> ...: pointers and references can also be non-type template parameters, and also pointers to members.
 
elm::* what does scope resolution operator mean
 
You need to learn how pointers to members work then.
 
aha.. ok
i got it nw
thanks @LucDanton
 
10:12 AM
is there any way to add to a std::vector while iterating it, without killing the iterator?
 
reserve enough space upfront
other than that, no
Why do you think you need to iterate over a vector and modify it, too?
 
cause of the excercise I'm doing
but there's probably another way
 
You could insert into a second vector, and when you're done iterating, move the stuff from the second vector to the first.
Or do you also have to check the inserted elements later?
 
So they could trigger additional insertions?
 
10:19 AM
that's basically what I have to do, in the next iteration, any new elements should also be cared for
 
Can you switch from a vector to a linked list?
 
yea
I guess...
 
linked list iterators are not invalidated when you insert an element
 
hmmmm interesting
thanks...
 
Or, you could simply stay away from iterators and just index the vector :)
 
10:20 AM
you mean iterate using the ordinary for loop based on the size() of the vector
 
oh, and when size changes, it doesn't matter?
while looping I mean
 
right
An index is not invalidated as such :)
 
ok cool
nice to know :)
 
Just out of curiosity, what exactly is that exercise that you're doing?
 
10:25 AM
heh, helping someone with a school excersice
it's horrendous really, cause it uses OOP principles over the top
like class inheritance
 
@TonyTheTiger Let me guess, Dog inherits Animal? :)
 
@FredOverflow exactly that kind of crappy OOP
why can't people make excercises that resemble reality a bit more
like as in production code reality
 
10:46 AM
oh hi
 

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