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sbi
12:03 AM
Anyway, here's one more before I go to bed:
Fact: Human toes were not arranged in descending size order until 1906
Good night!
 
night
I need to leave the office anyways, I'm out too
 
12:34 AM
@Josh you're confused I think. I'm not the original poster.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:28 AM
@jweyrich Yeah, I see that. I am curious where MS recommends using volatile as a replacement for (proper) thread synchronization
 
 
1 hour later…
3:48 AM
can anyone tell me what this error says ? GCC 4.2 Error: Declaration of C function 'int printf(int, const char*, ...)' conflicts with in /Developer/Xcode4/Platforms/iPhoneSimulator.platform/Developer/SDKs/iPhoneSimulator4.3.sdk/usr/include/stdio.h

The red mark appear in line number 446 in stdio.h
i guess it is issue with stdio.h file or what :( ?
M really screwed :(
 
 
2 hours later…
5:22 AM
Hi everyone! Me new here :) And I've a casual question. WinDBG or VS which one do you prefer for debugging?
 
5:56 AM
Never used WinDBG
 
6:39 AM
Anyone has an idea of Symbian app development(C++)
 
6:53 AM
@sbi Good morning
@EtiennedeMartel Good morning
 
Morning.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Hey, good morning to you!
 
@rageshctech: Given the channel, always VS for C++ stuff.
 
Fuck cancer.
 
Anyone into iphone development here?
 
I don't think so.
Damn, why don't newspapers link to their friggin' sources?
"Ooooh, scientists said something shiny."
Just link to the damn paper/research data/announcement/whatever.
</rant>
 
7:31 AM
hey
good morning
 
In astronomy, the word Trojan refers to a minor planet or natural satellite (moon) that shares an orbit with a larger planet or moon, but does not collide with it because it orbits around one of the two Lagrangian points of stability (Trojan points), ' and ', which lie approximately 60° ahead of and behind the larger body. Trojan objects are one type of co-orbital object. Trojan asteroids are small Solar System bodies that reside in Trojan points. Trojan moons are moons that reside at Trojan points. Trojan planets are theoretical planets that reside at Trojan points. Saturn has the mos...
I find this awesome.
Especially the "Trojans" and "Greeks" labels for the two clouds of matter around Jupiter. :)
 
@Tony Morning.
@wilx Earth has trojans too!
 
I know!
 
(@sbi linked to one such discovery a while back in this chat)
 
I wondered, 18k records for a table in a db isn't that many right?
 
7:32 AM
That's how I got to the link I have just posted.
@TonyTheTiger: That's very little. IMHO.
Unless each record is super huge.
 
@wilx that's what I thought... but then could a UNION of that table and some other table be slow?
 
I don't think so. Why? Is it?
 
Define slow.
 
yea
@MartinhoFernandes taking a 10s to load
and execute query
 
Well, how big is the other table?
And have you tried observing what the query planner does for your query?
What DB is that? Most can give you the plan.
 
7:37 AM
Did you try running the two queries separately?
Maybe one of them is problematic.
 
@wilx its an MS Access db
yes I know thats shitty; but hey I didn't make it
@MartinhoFernandes problem is its a bunch of nested queries running from other queries
ugh; one sorry mess
lol
 
Well, since they're complicated nested queries, the culprit is probably the complicated nesting somewhere, and not the UNION.
 
Or maybe it's just general Access suckiness.
Ah! Found a source! Apparently cellphones are as likely to cause cancer as coffee.
They can also possibly reduce your chances of cancer.
 
:)
 
7:42 AM
And all of this including something like "but we cannot rule out chance, bias or confounding."
 
could a JOIN of some type cause slowness? I thought they were generally meant for reducing the result set size, to speed up things, no?
hahaha
 
@TonyTheTiger If done badly, JOINs will kill your performance.
 
No, joins are just set operations.
 
@MartinhoFernandes I hardly know anything about JOIN's and perf related issues
perhaps I should google
 
For example, if you're not joining on properly indexed columns, it will likely result in full table scans.
Which are expensive.
Not having a query analyzer sucks when debugging slow queries.
With one you could see this easily.
 
7:45 AM
i can see yo momma easily
 
oh rly?
 
ya
 
ugh; INNER JOIN- OUTER JOIN --- worse then pointers, confuses me lots :(
 
@MartinhoFernandes thats usefull!!! Thx :)
 
7:58 AM
Awesome. Greenpeace activists assholes destroyed a crop of experimental genetically modified wheat in Australia. With gasoline-powered brush cutters.
@TonyTheTiger You're welcome.
 
Wrong reply. :)
 
lol
@DeadMG how's the parsing going?
 
haven't done any for a couple of days
not got the right food here anymore
today I'm due to travel a long way and get back to university to do my resits
so I might have more in a couple days
 
Huh, wouldn't that imply little time, because, huh, you have to study for your resits, or something?
 
8:05 AM
the actual resits don't begin for another few days
 
how many resits?
 
four
 
oh k, not too bad, I guess
 
not really
 
depends on the subjects though, I suppose
 
8:11 AM
formal spec, ugh
2d graphics
ai methods
object orientated systems design and HCI, which is actually requirements analysis
 
AI sounds quite hard
or no?
 
PROLOG
one of the courseworks was about shunting, and I'm like, I could make that work in like, five minutes with Bison and C++
 
no idea what shunting is
 
it's about parsing
you take an input like (2 + 3 * 4 / 5) and produce Reverse Polish Notation, I believe it is, which is (+ 2 3 * 4 / 5)
but you also have to deal with precedence and associativity and that bs
 
this algo?
The shunting-yard algorithm is a method for parsing mathematical expressions specified in infix notation. It can be used to produce output in Reverse Polish notation (RPN) or as an abstract syntax tree (AST). The algorithm was invented by Edsger Dijkstra and named the "shunting yard" algorithm because its operation resembles that of a railroad shunting yard. Dijkstra first described the Shunting Yard Algorithm in Mathematisch Centrum report MR-35. Like the evaluation of RPN, the shunting yard algorithm is stack-based. Infix expressions are the form of mathematical notation most people are...
 
8:17 AM
yep
 
It's (+ 2 * 3 / 4 5) btw
There's another version depending on how you associate the multiplication and division though.
 
pretty sure that you would have to at least open with (* 3 4)
 
and what would be the advantage of having it in that notation?
 
(* 3 4 + 2 / 5)
apparently, it's super easy to go from there to something like CPU assembler
 
Can't end with / 5.
 
8:19 AM
evaluating that expression is all about stack pushing and popping, so stack-based virtual machine instructions are trivial to generate from it
why not? divide top of stack with five, ez
 
oh perhaps because asm takes a lot of this form: INSTRUCTION: OPERAND, OPERAND
 
What top? It's empty.
 
oh, it's ok, I just got it the wrong way round
you'd need (3 4 * 2 + 5 /)
 
(+ 2 * 3 / 4 5) or (+ 2 / 5 * 3 4)
Depending on whether you do the multiplication or division first.
Or maybe we're not using the same notation altogether >.>
 
well I just looked up RPN on Wiki
but I've long forgotten the precedences and associations of mathematical infix notation
 
8:22 AM
Hi
 
stack-based virtual machine, do you mean just any instructions using a stack?
 
would be so much easier if I could just generate the parse algorithm with LALR
would be easy to do that
 
Do some mathematical busywork in a Forth and you're set for life for doing it yourself/grokking it.
 
I've heard many legends of Forth
 
Morning
 
8:29 AM
so was defining the formal grammar for DeadMG++ hard then? How do you go about such a thing?
 
it was kind of hard
 
are you done?
 
no
there's stuff that I forgot, like member initializer lists in the constructor
 
I can imagine it must be hard
 
the thing is
it's easy to express what you want
and it's a lot harder to express it in a way that LALR can understand
 
8:33 AM
just reading up a bit on the whole process, sounds pretty complicated
you found this harder then the graphics stuff?
 
hmm
not necessarily harder
but less intuitive
and definitely, it's hard to work with a parser that's fundamentally designed to write C parsers and uses goto to jump all over the place, for example
 
it's hard to make it generate an AST, is what I found
I still haven't finished that part
lots of magic variables, hard to reason about
 
wow, you have courage even trying to create it
 
I've got BALLS OF STEEL
2
 
8:39 AM
hahaha
 
well, I reckon that I've got it covered
I just need to finish up a few more rules
 
I think the day you need to go look for a job; it'll be easy, cause you know so much...
 
lol
I wish
it'll probably be hard because I failed my degree
 
and you don't seem afraid to tackle new subjects
well it be harder because of that; but still
your C++ knowledge is fairly extensive
 
yeah
 
8:42 AM
you know quite a bit about graphics programming and now the compiling parsing stuff
 
I hope you live in a country where people care more about your skills than about your degrees
 
yea; well; not necessarily
 
I do not, and finding interesting job is somehow impossible :/
 
cause I've been trying to get a job in that same country he's in
and they either want lots of experience or a degree
so it sucks :(
 
but showing that to an employer is another thing
 
8:44 AM
:/
For my current job, they did not test me at all.
 
well, can you still attempt to succeed at getting your degree? or is that too late?
 
I'm going to university to get my resits cracking
 
@ereOn rly?
 
I just walked in, someone who had no clue about computer science just read my resume and said "It seems you have the qualifications. You got the job".
 
and the job turns out to be something you like?
 
8:46 AM
As a result, the job is not really interesting, but it was the most paid job I could find.
 
oh I see
 
I'm thinking about leaving... but can't find anything more interesting
 
so you write code right?
 
That pays enough.
I do yes.
 
8:47 AM
I was put in charge of the UNIX development environment. Mainly because no one else knew it and they needed it.
So yes, I write in C++.
 
@ereOn that's cool :)
 
But I can't use new technologies or techniques because people here don't want to learn.
I had to fight hard to get the right to use shared_ptr
 
ugh
oh ghosh
 
And even when I do, people complain because my code is "bad and no one understands it"
 
I don't think anyone else understands my code either
 
8:48 AM
lol
 
it's written for me and only me to understand
 
@DeadMG: I know the feeling ;)
 
@DeadMG I understood what you sent me
@DeadMG lol, yea if it was hard to write; it should be hard to understand
 
true
 
hahah
 
8:50 AM
I could suggest some changes thought
 
@DeadMG That's something you'll need to learn to avoid doing, if you plan to work with someone else.
 
nah
I'll write code for other people to understand if and when it becomes necessary for them to understand it :P
 
But had to wait one year for people to trust me enough
 
let's face it, the reality is that most projects like "DeadMG++" never get anywhere
 
@ereOn Ha lol, you're from France. It makes sense now :)
 
8:51 AM
they can be fun though
 
oh yes
 
@kbok: Can't deny ;)
 
but I'd rather keep it fun than do boring things like documentation when the overwhelming probability is that I'll never need it
 
Source control commit messages are basic documentation.
 
The funny thing is that people always moan to get documentation, and once they got it, they never read it.
 
8:53 AM
@ereOn It's crazy how HR just looks at your education level and then if you have a master's it's OK
 
@DeadMG yea like I did for the last project before I left the company
I worked at
wrote documention, turns out my successor never looked at cause he wanted to do it his way
 
@Martinho: Try to work with Visual Source Safe as a Source Version Control and you will change your mind about using it as "basic documentation" :p
 
so he started again
tosser
 
@ereOn I use TFS. This company is still migrating some old VSS stuff to TFS, but it's almost gone.
 
@kbok: Indeed. I wish there was some tests before hiring. So there would be more jobs and less crapy code everywhere. And a higher salary !
 
8:55 AM
One thing that sucks about TFS is that commit messages are optional.
 
@Martinho: I'm used to Subversion and more recently Git : playing with VSS feels like a serious pain to me.
 
I think I'm the only one that uses them in the entire company.
 
Is TFS really better ?
 
@ereOn There are a few companies that tests though. And they pay much better (like 40% more)
 
Better? Yes.
Great? Not really.
It's not hard to be better than VSS.
 
8:56 AM
@MartinhoFernandes true that
 
@kbok Anything that is not an SSII?
 
@LucDanton No :(
 
what's SSII?
 
There are some recruitement companies though
@DeadMG It's quite a specific french thing I think
 
@DeadMG I think it's French for consulting companies.
 
8:58 AM
@DeadMG : A company that hires you to sell your skills to another company
 
@DeadMG Wikipedia suggests IT consulting as a translation. Just think software sweatshop.
 
consulting
 
They don't pay that much do they ?
 
oh I almost got hired as a consultant once
not sure if I would have liked that
 
Last time I looked to change my job, most SSII were giving me 29K€/year
while my current company offered 37
 
8:59 AM
wow, that's not much
 
no wonder why I stayed
 
@ereOn Yep, that's ridiculously low
 
I can practically get £25k a year just with a degree and a little C++ experience
 
I was the most paid people of my former classroom
I could get more by moving to Paris
But I really don't want to.
 
@ereOn Where did you get your degree ?
 
9:00 AM
Strasbourg
(Don't know if you know the city)
 
in Germany?
 
in France dude
 
Strasbourg is in France?
 
Fair mistake : the name sounds german
 
Lolling hard.
 
9:01 AM
As it was given during german occupation ;)
 
It was also the Germans that messed up France's timezone.
Even though the Greenwich meridian crosses their country, they use GMT+1.
 
@DeadMG I guess Geography is not part of your degree? LOL
2
 
@TonyTheTiger Why would I know about random French cities?
 
To be honest, If DeadMG is from the U.S.A, I probably wouldn't be able to locate U.S cities either :p
 
9:03 AM
England
 
@MartinhoFernandes timezones are fucked up anyways
 
@ereOn Never gone there, but looks like a nice place to live
 
also, your map seems to indicate that it is at least partially actually in Germany
 
Because it's not a random French city.
It's the seat of the European Parliament.
 
@kbok: That's the reason why I don't want to leave. The place is beautiful.
And the food :D
 
9:04 AM
@ereOn he's European, so no I'm an ignorant American excuses
 
@MartinhoFernandes that pretty much makes it a random French city
 
I think it makes it an important French city.
 
European politicians are just bitching and in-fighting and never accomplish anything
 
But I'm biased, I'm European.
 
they're even worse than the national politicians
which I find impressive
in a bad way
 
9:05 AM
Try our politicians.
 
and thus I don't pay much attention to their whining
anyway, my train leaves soon and I must pack up parts of my computer
 
@MartinhoFernandes I thought EU parliament was in Brussels?
 
I shall see you all in a few hours
 
@DeadMG Because every other random French city is associated with the EU, like Brussels right?
 
I was there a few months ago
 
9:05 AM
oh yeah, and I thought Brussels was the heart of the EU
 
It is
 
@TonyTheTiger I actually can see the Europeen Parliament from my seat right now ;)
 
@LucDanton Why would I know which cities are associated with the EU?
 
The city of Strasbourg (France) is the official seat of the European Parliament. The institution is legally bound to meet there twelve sessions a year lasting about four days each. Other work takes place in Brussels and Luxembourg City (see Location of European Union institutions for more information). Also all votes of the European Parliament must take place in Strasbourg, which makes the French city "de facto" co-city of the European Union. The Parliament's buildings are located in the Quartier Européen (European Quarter) of the city, which it shares with other European organisations ...
 
@DeadMG Just trolling away with the Belgian capital.
 
9:07 AM
@ereOn there seems to be multiple cities that have this
 
@TonyTheTiger That have... what ?
 
Important EU institutions.
 
Perhaps yes. I'm really not that good in geopolitics
 
like @MartinhoFernandes said
@ereOn neither am, though always learning
 
I love C++ and Python (and my girlfriend) : everything else is useless to me :D
2
 
9:12 AM
@ereOn that pretty much says it eh
lol
 
So, what do you work in @TonyTheTiger ?
 
From what I gathered, nasty stuff.
 
@ereOn pr0n industry :)
 
I knew it!
 
No kidding ?
 
9:15 AM
yea well I have to write algorithms that sort boob size etc
fun fun :)
 
haha :p
That's a serious topic though : choosing an improper boob size could lead to serious injuries
 
write SQL queries to find the hottest girl :)
@ereOn for the guy?? how?
lol
 
@TonyTheTiger I will let your imagination work for itself for that one :P
 
@ereOn oh, my imagination is already on a wild goose chase, did you really have to do that
 
;)
Anyway, my week-end is almost beginning (took the afternoon off) and I still have a library to make work
Was fun to chat with you guys.
Cya !
 
9:20 AM
Bye.
 
cya
everyone gone in work mode?
 
Why, you're not at work?
 
9:41 AM
$3 = (const boost::exception_ptr *) 0x1
That doesn't look nice.
 
 
1 hour later…
sbi
10:46 AM
@DeadMG Is that why you don't have a girlfriend? (I mean, sooner or later they all will want to have kids. Also, these might hurt her.)
@ereOn BTDT. That alone should be a reason to leave.
@DeadMG The problem is that those which do get somewhere were started with this attitude, too.
@DeadMG Because that's in the news, like, every day?
@TonyTheTiger No way! You're kidding!
 
sbi
@MartinhoFernandes No. Should I?
 
I liked it.
It talks about a similar issue.
 
When all you have is a hammer... I sometimes wish people would be banned from knowing about regular expressions until they've developed a sense of proportion: stackoverflow.com/questions/6872002/…
 
I've made a policy to not answer regular expression questions that don't have some regular expression in the question.
 

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