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12:00 PM
Which is a lot more than I expected, but a lot less than I could have if I had done some work these past 6 years.
 
well
if I had done more work for my PROLOG coursework, I could be sitting prettier
but on the plus side, I won't have to re-sit the PROLOG exam
 
that's a pretty major plus
 
yes, thank God
amazing that I passed it
 
I find it a bit embarassing: I entered college with an average of 18, and it took me 6 years to complete a 3-year degree.
 
you know
I'm actually feeling pretty fucking good for the first time in a long time
 
12:03 PM
doing drugs?
3
 
@MartinhoFernandes hah, that's even worse than me!
I only spent 7.5 years on a 5-year degree!
 
:(
I mean, I hope I finish it this September.
I still have 4 exams left.
 
i've spent 6.5 years on my 6 years degree. the last half year doing only one lousy subject...
I should have coursed computer science instead of electronic engineering, things would have been so much easier
 
I got very disappointed with how my degree turned out to be. In half of the courses I learned very little. Another half was physics and economics and other stuff like that. There were very few courses I really liked.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Engineering degree?
 
12:10 PM
Yeah.
 
Same here (well, I don't think I disliked it as much)
The worst is communication courses.
 
I agree
 
@LucDanton You mean, like network stuff? Or human communication?
 
and by communication you mean stuff like antennas and the like? right?
 
I'm looking for the right term.
Because no, it's not network stuff.
It's HR stuff.
 
12:12 PM
Ugh.
 
oh
 
interpersonal skills?
 
Glad I had none of that.
 
@DeadMG There's a bit of that, but not just.
I.e. the course does teach you to be a model employee but also teaches how to manage people (it's not an HR course proper though).
 
Sounds boring as hell.
 
12:13 PM
It is, it's mostly bullshit.
What's not bullshit is trivial.
 
What disappointed me the most was how easy it was to pass some courses without an inkling of understanding.
 
I called it 'communication' because I thought it was related to communication studies but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
Lunch time!
 
12:42 PM
I've never came across skeet on any question. is he strict c#?
 
@hexa Probably not strictly, but 99.9% or so
not much of a C++ guy, at least
I won't rule out that he's answered a few web/js/mobile questions though
 
1:04 PM
@hexa You wouldn't want that. He steals your precious upvotes just for being there.
Very annoying, but it's not really his fault.
 
You are a C# guy right martinho?
 
i have a c++ philosophy question
say I have a Car object, which has a color member
 
im sorry, but its UB.
 
I assign "black" to the color member at the start of the car, and don't reassing it until the car's lifetime ends
can i say "the color of the car is constant" ?
 
is the color member, private?
 
1:08 PM
@hexa Not sure what "C# guy" means, but yeah, I've done C# development.
 
@hexa sometime sit'r private sometimes public
 
Still do, actually.
 
would it not mean "black is constant" ?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb depends on what you mean by "constant", I guess. Normally, I'd say that it's not constant if it can be changed, whether or not you actually change it on any given object
 
it seems to me it would imply that a color can be non-constant
but I don't know what that means
i have never seen a color black change into color white! black stays black it seems
 
1:09 PM
But you can see a car change from black to white.
 
the color black is constant. The color of a car is not
 
in the same way that the number 29 is constant, but my age is not
 
dude, you are almost 30
 
ah
i see now
 
1:10 PM
that's how I'd look at it, anyway
@hexa So what? There's nothing wrong with being an ancient fossil!
 
are there nonconstant numbers?
 
@jalf :P I'm almost 30 too :(
 
No.
Except old FORTRAN numbers maybe ;)
 
@JohannesSchaublitb I'd say no, although again, it depends on exact definitions
 
i'm 30 in 5 years
i feel so old :(
 
1:11 PM
@MartinhoFernandes isn't it UB to modify them though?
 
In FORTRAN? No idea.
 
> template parameters not used in partial specialization:
There's nothing after ':'.
 
@LucDanton this is currently a defect
 
How helpful, thank you GCC.
 
an active issue lurks around in the list
 
1:12 PM
The defect is that I did use all parameters right?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb you do GCC development? Or just read the list and report bugs?
 
formally the partial specialization is valid, but the parameter can never be deduced so it can never be selected
 
Aaaw
 
I guess a number is the mathematical equivalent of a prvalue. Does that help? ;)
 
@hexa i was talking about the standard issue list wg21
i'm not doing gcc frontend development
@jalf ohh!
 
1:14 PM
@JohannesSchaublitb are you 25?
 
actually, I'm not really sure that's the best metaphor
 
Wow, you had to use concepts from the C++ standard to explain a fundamental mathematical idea.
But prvalues can change, no?
For a little while.
 
@MartinhoFernandes and not just from the C+ standard. From the UPCOMING C++ standard.
@MartinhoFernandes no one are going to observe the change though
 
@ÓlafurWaage im actually are
 
Syntax error.
 
1:16 PM
Don't feel old, I'll be 30 next year.
 
@jalf i think it fits nicely! non-array and non-class rvalue tho
xD
 
And I'm in school :P
 
So @sbi is not around, and everyone feels old?
 
being around 40 must be a pain. then being around 70 is nice again because you don't need to work anymore
 
but yeah, that's where the metaphor falls down. It might be better to compare it to objects vs values. An object contains a value, and can be updated to store a different value. But any given value is inherently constant
 
1:17 PM
@ÓlafurWaage i'm student xD
 
Because you can't stand working anymore.
 
:D I'm starting my 3rd year of compsci bsc this august.
 
so C++ people are old
Java guys are kids?
 
you can finally relax and troll on SO all day
 
1:17 PM
@hexa: I'm still a student and 20 years old
 
@ÓlafurWaage ohh nice! i just finished it on april this year
 
Python users are what then? I can understand CatPlusPlus then.
 
@hexa Someone on channel9 said recently that they'd done some surveys and found that C++ programmers aren't all that old after all
 
@JohannesSchaublitb grats :D
 
@DeadMG do you do java?
 
1:18 PM
thxx xD
 
one of their C++ Renaissance vids
 
I really dislike this "<language> guy" expression.
 
the one with Boris whatshisname, maybe
 
@MartinhoFernandes aye me too. I do all languages, if they are sane.
 
@hexa: No, I hate Java
 
1:18 PM
I'm someone that uses languages X and Y and Z.
 
@ÓlafurWaage that narrows it down quite a bit though
 
@jalf no vb for me
 
I use any language to be honest
but my favourite is C! /hides
 
@hexa Even PHP?
 
well, I don't have any boss telling me what to use
so I get to just stick with what I prefer, which is C++
 
1:20 PM
I'll work in any language, doesn't mean I'll like it though.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I like PHP a lot too
no matter what cpp says
 
i like bash and awk abuse
 
sed ftw!
 
i god damn hate awk and sed
 
I like BrainFuck.
 
1:20 PM
i've never understood those scripts
 
sed scares me to stone
 
I use sed every day.
Actually going to make a shell script that runs about 4-5 sed calls right now.
 
what I hate the most is those things where they're unreadable for the sake of saving a few characters
 
sed uses ex commands right?
 
seeing a 3+ lines sed script makes me cry
 
1:21 PM
like
iostream's sgetc
what the fuck is sgetc?
fail naming
 
sed is similar to regex
 
@DeadMG Seems like it's streambuf's getc
 
whereas vector has shrink_to_fit, thank you for clearly naming the function name
 
sed regex == sex
lol
 
sed 's/<word>/<otherword>/' file.txt
 
1:22 PM
Then again, iostream seems to follow C's tradition of "function names are expensive"
 
/g at the end if you want to modify it
 
I use that. Inside vim.
 
sed 's/^ *//' after10.null.words | sed 's/\^\(.*\)\/.*/\1/' | sort | uniq -c | sort -r -n | sudo tee after10.word.count
 
THE HORROR
 
@hexa "The goggles, they do nothing!"
 
1:24 PM
u try PERL ?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Isn't Perl the language where everything's a regex?
 
but Perl is made for parsing strings.
 
1:24 PM
Perl is the language where everything is line noise.
 
oh man, my results are so much better than I thought
 
time was good when awk questions weren't considered offtopic on SO
-.-
 
Hi
 
Perl created two good things. The notion that good syntax goes a long way and the "Laziness Impatience Hubris" qutote from Larry
2
 
1:27 PM
I need a gold badge so i look more respectable and get more upvotes, ideas?
 
@hexa Fanatic or Electorate are the easiest.
 
what is electorate?
 
But may be a tad time consuming.
 
if you have a buddy on SO, getting gold is very easy
 
@hexa fanatic is an easy one
 
1:28 PM
I concur, Fanatic is the way to go.
 
electorate: Voted on 600 questions and 25% or more of total votes are on questions
 
i should get my pointer gold badge today or tomorrow
 
I am already working on Fanatic, 31 days i think
 
That's even easier
 
1,004K points now
 
1:30 PM
One day, someone will write a C++-like language, but with all the operators of Perl. And they'll all be overloadable.
 
I don't like operation overloading abuse
 
I know that. I will come from the future last week.
 
I've heard of people overloading operators where they don't belong
but honestly, I've never actually seen it
the only operator overloading I've seen is totally appropriate, like containers, pointers, arithmetic classes like matrices
 
Well, 90% of Perl's operators just don't belong anywhere.
 
one of the things that kept me from trying c++ was when I saw "c++ tutorial" code with stuff like: cout << "look at this integer" << bigint << endl;
 
1:31 PM
but honestly
 
Honestly, I think the whole "operator overloading leads to abuse" is propaganda made by Java programmers.
5
 
if you're gonna abuse operator overloading and you didn't have it, people would just abuse something else instead
 
People are usually taught that operator overloading is SUPER DANGEROUS even before thet know how to do it
 
I thought: geez, crazy shit goes in that language with the bitshifts
 
@hexa: It's type-safe without unified type hierarchies, which is by far and away the best option
C only has the PLEASE OVERFLOW MY BUFFERS AND UNDEFINE MY BEHAVIOUR printf and Java only has PLEASE OVER-USE INHERITANCE AND CALL FUNCTIONS I DIDN'T WANT's Object
 
1:33 PM
I agree it is good @DeadMG
 
iostreams and << are hardly what I would say are what I would use
 
I am just saying that scared me
 
but honestly? nobody else has even anything remotely as good
 
@DeadMG I've seen it... in a C++ class where the teacher showed how convenient it is to overload operator+, and then promptly gave it the semantics of operator+=.
Of course, the types it operated on were polymorphic so it had to do a shaddy double dispatch and leak memory.
 
I've read somewhere that if generics were available since .NET 1, then .NET's Object class probably wouldn't have the GetHashCode and Equals methods.
 
1:34 PM
the c++ teacher in our UNI told us that "global" operator functions are "deprecated, only left for compatibility with prestandard C", and that one should prefer member function operators
 
When will people understand that addition does not make sense polymorphically?
 
@JohannesSchaublitb Glad to see that C++ is still the world's most badly teached language
 
Hey, I just had a C++ interview, and there was a question about "which is legal"
is UB considered "legal" ?
 
@kbok Depends what you mean by "legal"
 
1:35 PM
What does legal mean?
 
thats a tricky question isn't it
 
(That's how I would reply.)
 
@EtiennedeMartel That's what I thought too
 
generally, "legal" refers to "defined behaviour", and "illegal" refers to "undefined behaviour"
 
@kbok If you ask "what did the interviewer mean", I'd say UB should probably be considered not legal
 
1:36 PM
Just slap the interviewer across the face and leave.
 
@DeadMG What about sdkfh hsdjfks sdjf hsd sjh fsjd hsjkf hsk skjd fsdj fsj fsjk fsj ( sjfhs fhsjd fhs ]?
 
but the standard doesn't really use the terms "legal" or "illegal"
 
It was a paper test with checkboxes, so no slapping the paper :)
 
It's not UB, but it's not legal.
 
It is legal to invoke undefined behavior
if you are a compiler.
 
1:37 PM
You can do whatever you want.
 
@hexa In fact, it's even useful for optimization purposes.
 
The offending statement was a dereferencement of uninitialized pointer
 
@kbok That's just evil.
 
Yes, but it compiles, right ?
 
How it behaves is not defined though. The standard does not forbid UB.
 
1:38 PM
Counts as illegal for me.
 
I'd say a program that has UB is legal.
 
@kbok "Compiles" != "Works"
 
@EtiennedeMartel But what about "Is legal" ?
 
For instance if the Standard uses a phrasing such as "the dereferenced pointer shall be initialized to a valid object, or the behaviour is undefined" then that makes it illegal.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, no matter what Java taught you!
 
1:40 PM
It's the 'shall' that'd be important, not UB.
 
tbh, I'd go with the option where I don't risk the interviewer thinking that I consider UB to be acceptable in my code
 
So I don't have the exact phrasing at hand but int* p; *p; looks pretty illegal to me.
 
I'd just answer with "It's undefined behavior."
I'd prefer to avoid using weasel words.
 
Legal/illegal aren't weasel words and have technical meanings though.
 
@MartinhoFernandes hard to do that if it's a checkmark on a piece of paper ;)
 
1:43 PM
That is a great question to be asked, seriously
If the guy has good understanting of programming and general, he can make valid points
 
@jalf So, they're testing me with a multiple choice test? I'm out.
 
also, he will have to support his arguments, so as an interviewer you get a graps of the candidate
 
A test of my knowledge where I can't show it, is really irritating.
 
@LucDanton ok give me the technical meaning of legal in this case.
 
And tests nothing useful.
 
1:45 PM
@MartinhoFernandes It's still better than nothing though
I prefer passing a stupid test than having people in my team knowing absolutely nothing about C++
 
@ÓlafurWaage Meh. I could informally say that 'legal' means allowed by the Standard, but that's not saying much. Still, the ISO document that gives guidelines for the usage of words like 'shall', 'must', 'must not' etc goes a long way already.
 
@kbok But such a test doesn't help much weeding those out.
 
A hardish test can help find the most talented of those that know absolutely nothing about the topic though.
 
@LucDanton You mean RFC-2119? Or is there another such document I don't know about?
 
@MartinhoFernandes It's a test many of my classmates couldn't pass, so I guess it does
 
1:47 PM
@LucDanton It often helps to get the definition from someone if they are using a word that can be misunderstood.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Looks like it's the one.
@ÓlafurWaage I'd never have thought that legal/illegal can be misunderstood tbh.
 
All words can be misunderstood, given the right context
And I wasn't 100% sure on what you meant by legal, I got the gist but not all.
 
It isn't clear to me
 
See, other people don't understand you. Does this happen often? :P
 
Even "Is it legal C++" would be clearer than just "Is it legal"
 
1:50 PM
Can we have some context? Was 'legal' used in English?
 
yes, it was "Is it legal", verbatim.
 
No question mark?
 
lol yes there was a question mark
 
THEN IT ISNT VERBATIM
:P
 
the question was "Which of these statements are legal ?"
 
1:51 PM
Unambiguous to me.
 
@kbok: With the space before the question mark?
 
@ÓlafurWaage Verbatim refers only to words
 
@wilx lol, I'm not 100% sure
 
:)
 
@Poik Nice to know.
 
1:53 PM
Anyway, gotta eat, I'm starving. Damn C++ tests.
 
@LucDanton Not that important to know, but they say knowing is half the battle.
 
G.I. Joe!
 
The only design pattern question was about Singleton. Yikes.
 
run
 
No, eat first.
 
1:54 PM
@kbok That glorified global variable thing?
@MartinhoFernandes Yes, never run on an empty stomach.
 
The only acceptable things to do on an empty stomach are: 1) eating and 2) starving.
 
@MartinhoFernandes If you're a philosopher, "thinking" is also acceptable
 
starving is acceptable?
 
Only on an empty stomach.
 
Can template<template<typename...> class Template, typename... T> struct base<Template<T...>>; match base<const std::tuple<>>? I'm testing it right now but just in case.
GCC won't make the match.
 

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