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8:00 PM
@JerryCoffin I guess this is a complicated analysis what with some of the military spending propping up some communities.
 
@LucDanton Yet the president that promised to end those wars just added another, without consulting congress.
 
ultimately, I don't even get why this is a question
European healthcare produces better results for cheaper
what kind of moron doesn't prefer that system?
 
@DeadMG Not better results....
 
@Xaade: Libya is not the same thing- that's UN-sanctioned international action, not the US circle-jerking over how great it is
 
@Xaade that article is a year old and no direct sources bilbliography. I am looking for official budget reports
 
8:00 PM
@Xaade: Life expectancy in Europe is much higher than in the US.
 
health care costs are growing all over the world, for many reasons. More old people, obesity and so on. Without some context, the projected health care spending in Mass. is meanignless
 
I would say the comparison of results is less a weight than the cost differences.
 
@LucDanton Quite true. It's never simple, and with military spending, it's exceedingly complex.
 
@DeadMG The French system is always laughed as a money sinkhole; I've never bothered to compare its results to neighbouring countries though.
 
so anyway, I'd better get some sleep
 
8:01 PM
every state thinks it's healthcare is too expensive
 
@Collecter Well, I'm not going to do that right now.
 
but in the US, it's a joke- 15% of GDP to 7.5% in the UK, I believe
 
by the way @Xaade, you still haven't said what your alternative to insurance-based health care is?
 
A rfew areas around me are supported by military spending. I even interned for them. Although we spend an absurd amount on the wars
 
GDP is a joke.
 
8:02 PM
@LucDanton No because each State has its own balanced budget.
 
@DeadMG Which is also affected (to continue my earlier example) by use of public vs. private transportation.
 
sucks they killed the idea of bullet trains connecting what was it? chicago, detroit, and somewhere else
 
@0A0D I see. Federalism is an exotic beast as seen from here.
 
Man, and I thought we had too many private cars.
 
@jalf There are lots of changes I would make. The first being that copays are completely removed. Put a burden on the consumer to shop for a doctor rather than just pick one closest to home.
 
8:02 PM
@0A0D Budget yes. Balanced budget, no - many states haven't had a balanced budget in years (decades, in some cases).
 
@Jerry: Don't believe that accounts for quite that much difference, and especially not considering US doubles the amount spent
 
@JerryCoffin Florida has :)
 
Texas gets back 70% of what it pays....
Which makes sense.
It's a major hub for oil.
 
@0A0D Yup, and one of only a handful of states with no state income tax either.
 
because income tax is not necessary.
 
8:04 PM
@JerryCoffin It's a law it seems that states have a balanced budget (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_Budget_Amendment)
 
@JerryCoffin So the state of panic of "failing States" is that suddenly creditors are getting antsy and nobody can afford to default?
 
@Xaade but where does the money for health care come from? Do people buy insurance, or is it paid for through taxes or what would you like to see?
 
Most of the reason the rich have a higher tax bracket is to simply offset the access to loopholes.
 
@Xaade: If you don't pay income taxes, you just get taxed somewhere else instead
not having income taxes doesn't suddenly mean you don't pay tax
 
@DeadMG I don't think it accounts for the whole difference, no. It does make a difference though.
 
8:05 PM
@DeadMG Right, but a general sales tax would perform better.
 
or, it just means that you don't get some services from the State
for example, health care that isn't at a crippling cost
 
@DeadMG Health care is pretty cheap in Texas compared to the north.
In Louisiana it's expensive.
 
national average is double what you pay indirectly through taxes in the UK
double
 
@0A0D Most have something by that name, but in many cases it just rules out budget surpluses, not shortfalls. In others, it excludes things like bond issues from being part of the "balance", so the gov't can go into the hole without it counting as imbalance.
 
So apparently for this year French healthcare will be 20 billion (EUR) in the red.
 
8:08 PM
My ultimate goal would be to revert to catastrophic insurance. Require pharm companies to list exactly what they research when they get a grant, and put bigger limits on what grants they get). Make generics always required if available (if on insurance). Reduce the amount of time non-generics have exclusive selling rights. Put more restrictions on malpractice lawsuits....
 
that's a trillion dollars every year you could save if your health care was as efficient as the UKs
do you know what you could do with a trillion dollars every year?
 
pay debt?
 
well, it would certainly solve your debt problems in a relatively short time
 
@DeadMG You do realize that a lot of the cost cutting measures I would suggest to make insurance more affordable, Europe has already done.
 
We could actually fund nasa :D
 
8:09 PM
or imagine the infrastructure you could build?
new internet, new roads, new power stations?
 
@DeadMG Fucking sidewalks.... that's why people are so fat.
 
yes. new internet. 1 terabit connection everwhere
 
I'd love to be able to walk to my destination.... safely.
 
or you could invest it into other social things like more policing and other general lawful activities
@Xaade: Utterly irrelevant
 
@Xaade We have a ton of sidewalks up here in michigan
 
8:10 PM
And people are still fat?
 
@DeadMG This is one of those warped statistics though -- for example, when the US gov't is trying to scare us with high health care costs, they include lots of voluntary stuff like women getting "breast augmentation", face lifts, nose jobs, etc. I don't believe most public health care systems pay for such things.
 
I lost 10 pounds in China for three weeks simply because of more walking less driving.
 
@Xaade some are, but some aren't side walks are not seeming to effect it
 
It would effect it for me.
 
@JerryCoffin They do if it's not for vanity. E.g. self-esteem issues.
 
8:11 PM
@Jerry: I don't actually think that's true
you certainly can get such things publicly here
 
@Xaade I would hazard that the food over there contributed a lot too
 
@LucDanton The difference is?
 
depends on the exact circumstances, of course,but you can
 
Vanity == self-esteem issues.
 
@Xaade I'm not a doctor. I don't know what helps people.
 
8:12 PM
@Collecter If I could walk everywhere, food would be irrelevant.
 
@DeadMG You don't believe that which part is true? That the Gov't counts it, or that public health care doesn't usually pay for it?
 
@Jerry: That public health care doesn't usually pay for it
 
@JerryCoffin He doesn't think that's true. Convenient when arguing counterly.
 
of course, in the UK, there are private surgeries that do private work with cosmetics
 
I just don't think that... it's not rational to think that.
 
8:13 PM
but it is available on the public system too
 
I am in no way interested in growing the public sector.
That freaks me out when I think that even doctor's are publicly owned
 
'owned'?
 
@Xaade: And thus the true issue is exposed- you're afraid of public healthcare because it's public, not because you have any rational reason to do so
 
man up and think of the money
 
8:15 PM
@DeadMG Again... no
 
@DeadMG Most will pay for (for example) restorative surgery after somebody's been hurt in an accident and they're left with serious scars (etc.) I'm a lot less certain about paying for breast augmentation, and things on that order.
 
I have nothing wrong with public insurance....
Public healthcare is another matter.
 
@Xaade food is not irrelavent at all.
 
@Collecter It is when you get sufficient exercise.
 
@Xaade Can you clarify what it means for a doctor to be owned?
 
8:16 PM
I guarantee you, if everyone cut their portions in half, and walk everywhere, fatness goes away.
 
@JerryCoffin: You can get it, there's documented cases of the military paying private for breast enlargements for some soldiers
 
Full disclosure: my father is a doctor. You're making me worry he might be owned!
 
@LucDanton Unable to have a private practice.
 
@Xaade Your diet is never irrelavent. No matter how much exercise you get
 
@Xaade: It would be very nice to have a doctor owned publicly
because then the doctor doesn't have an incentive to rip you off
 
8:17 PM
@DeadMG Not true.
You just push that back one chain in the organization
 
@Xaade Unable legally? Unable practically (i.e. no incentive for a private practice)?
 
@LucDanton A doctor should be allowed legally to own a private practice.
His earnings should be impeded by supply and demand.
 
@Xaade: What do you mean? publicly-funded doctors don't get paid depending on whether or not they ordered more expensive treatments
 
@DeadMG Government does
 
not in a public system
 
8:19 PM
Really
 
yes, really
 
Government has no incentive to charge higher premiums?
 
none at all
 
So, if they did charge higher premiums, they wouldn't take in more money?
 
Especially if the pharma companies are gov owned
 
8:19 PM
in the UK, they are legally bound to spend every penny collected for that purpose on health care
 
I am levaing i need work done -.-
 
@DeadMG AHA... That's a BIG difference
 
Again, the French system has been more than 20 billion down the hole, for quite some time. Greed doesn't seem to be a problem.
 
The American government and it's health care reform gives no requirement that it spend every penny collected on health care.
 
@Xaade: Yes, the kind of difference where the doctor no longer has any incentive to go for more expensive treatments just because they can
 
8:21 PM
You know I was against public transit until I had a commute :)
 
No, you miss my point.
 
Now I wish there was a good bus system around here :)
 
@Xaade: They probably didn't, but if they started profiting off it, then they would be ejected from government rather quickly
 
The UK system works, the American doesn't. It has nothing to do with the aspect of "public insurance"
 
I never said anything about public insurance, and don't give a crap about public insurance
 
8:22 PM
public healthcare
anything public
 
the idea is to take ideas that are proven to work in like, a hundred other countries, that is, the european system
 
The reason why I'm against public anything in America, is not that it's public.... it's that American gov. can't do anything public right.
 
I recommend the Norwegian system. Make huge oil profits, reinvest in health, services, education.
 
I can't believe that you can't understand my distinction after I've typed it a hundred different ways
 
I'm not in the US and I'm not going to pretend that I know what failures the government has and hasn't made in public systems
but if the government can't rip off systems from other countries, then it's time to vote in a new government
 
8:23 PM
Well, please try to understand before you make the argument that I'm against public for no rational reason.
 
@DeadMG Documented cases, sure. But is it normal that anybody who wants cosmetic surgery gets it for free? Any system can (and will) be abused to some degree, but at least for the moment let's stick to how things generally work, not a few corner cases.
 
@DeadMG That's WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO!!!!!!!!!
ZOMG
 
@Jerry: I also don't believe that cosmetic surgery contributes to a significant portion of the US healthcare expenditure
@Xaade: The only thing I've managed to discern from what you've said is OMG GOVERNMENT SUX, to put it succinctly.
 
There's NOTHING wrong with public / European / whatever the hell healthcare system you have.....
America can't and won't implement it that way.
It will make some bastardized system that results only in increased premiums and higher healthcare costs.
 
What are you waiting for, then? GTFO!
 
8:25 PM
@Jerry: Now, I'm also not going to pretend that I'm an expert here, but it was my understanding that in the US, the healthcare insurance systems also won't pay for random cosmetic surgery
 
Part of the american reformation was to allow parents to have up to 26 year old dependents on their insurance, to increase access to insurance to kids who refuse to get a job by 26 years old.
Before you had to either have a job or be in college.
What did that do?
 
@DeadMG Then you're not looking. Just for example, injections (e.g., Botox) account for ~$1B/year alone.
 
hell, in the recession, that seems reasonable to me
 
@DeadMG If they decide to pay to heart surgery, my friend might get his house back.
 
@DeadMG Except if you were unemployed or a student you could be a dependent before.
 
8:28 PM
Then again, I don't trust them to do anything actually beneficial.
 
@JerryCoffin: $1B/year isn't a significant difference, considering that the difference between US and UK expenditure, when accounted for national income, is over a trillion dollars
 
The only thing it did was allow kids who refused to work to get insurance, because every American "deserves" insurance.
 
@DeadMG No, they don't. My point was that gov't reports on health care costs include it, even though 1) the proposed health care bills wouldn't include it, and 2) they're comparing the results to other countries where it's not included.
 
@Xaade Don't they?
 
What do you think that will do, when you add people to insurance who refuse to get jobs, look for jobs, go to college, and have never been hired....
 
8:29 PM
@LucDanton As much as they "deserve" food. In fact, less so than food.
 
Does a 350lb guy who can't hold a job because he's too lazy deserve health insurance.... I don't think so.
 
@Xaade Same thing that happened in Japan
 
Food is a more important commodity, that we don't have for everyone yet. So why would insurance take priority?
 
I'm sorry, if you take money from my family and don't want to help yourself.... I don't like that.
If you try to help yourself and fail, I'll give to support you
 
@DeadMG By itself, no, it doesn't account for anywhere close to the whole difference. At the same time, it's pretty clear that the number we're seeing for the US is inflated -- the only question is the degree. When I (with no training in the area at all) can find obvious problems like that almost without trying, I'd guess there are a lot more that are probably more significant.
 
8:32 PM
@Jerry not counting actually reading the bill and seeing what's in there....
I suggest everyone go back and read that bill before arguing any more.
A lot of "how does that help anyone other than the insurance companies" moments.
 
American political rhetorics seem so angry from this side of the pond. Hopefully this won't come out as trollish; I'm genuinely under cultural shock (the good kind).
 
They are angry.... no offense taken
 
Don't even start talking about immigration...
 
Honestly, I think the debate hinges on two philosophies in America. "Don't do harm", and "Better to do something than nothing." However, once the debate gets across the pond it becomes, "Public is bad" and "Public is good"
 
Don't get me wrong, politics lead to inflammatory discussion as well here. But the nastiest comments mostly come from the fringe on topics like immigration for instance.
 
8:39 PM
"They took our jobs!" - South Park
 
@LucDanton BLAAISDFAHAFASPOAIFU...... HULK SMASH..... EVIL immigrants.
 
This topic always turns the wrong buttons no matter where in the world.
 
why do i keep getting miley cyrus pics when i image search for mutex?
 
mutex is in the filename
 
@LucDanton I think a lot of the rhetoric is to distract from the fact that there's very little philosophical difference between most politicians.
 
8:42 PM
@JerryCoffin Some regional politicians that you have in mind or politicians in general?
 
can anyone think of an url with a good graphical/diagram of two or more threads serializing data with a mutex
i only find bad ones
 
@LucDanton I was thinking mostly of Republican vs. Democrat at the federal level.
 
evening
 
@JerryCoffin They all act with the same function. Get money to friends. Make people think I care. It's because their friends are different that they have different platforms.
 
8:45 PM
@0A0D how is that any good and descriptive of a mutex working?
 
Every time a politician releases a book during their campaign about their life.... I cross that one off my list.
 
@hexa OS developers use what is called a Spinlock to act as a gatekeeper for a resource. A Spinlock (sometimes called a Spinlock Mutex) is a special data structure used in multiprocessing. It is similar to a Mutex or a semaphore in that it protects access to resources that cannot be accessed by more than one process at a time.
 
does anybody happen to know if boost has something to detect if a type has operator< or operator<< ?
 
It's like watching a bad Soap Opera.... you can predict every move.
 
@0A0D dude... nevermind
 
8:46 PM
@Node you mean if an object implements < or <<?
 
@0A0D yeah, either in the class or as a free function
 
@hexa okay....
 
Use it, and if it doesn't compile.... bam.... you've detected.
 
@Node There is a LessThanComparable concept in ConceptCheck.
 
@Xaade need to handle it
 
8:48 PM
I can't remember if this stuff can be used as a trait.
 
Shouldn't you know what's in your types?
 
I don't know if there is a way to detect if an object overloads a certain function
 
ive had a go here, jsut wondered if theres a more tried and tested solution
 
@0A0D decltype allows to check for arbitrary expressions.
 
You could make a template that has a method that attempts to use it, and when it performs the default implementation, the template notifies you.
but then objects that actually implement it, would have to have something for the template to hook onto.
 
8:51 PM
@LucDanton I don't see how that tells the programmer whether the object has overloaded say <<
 
@0A0D SFINAE tricks, see @Node's link for a C++03 take on the matter.
 
Have the object return a 2 or -2, then template around that and return true / false. Now you know it's overridden default.
 
@LucDanton Yeah, I was kinda wondering if there is a problem with this implementation I haven't thought off
 
@Node Do you need a trait (e.g. for SFINAE) or is a concept enough?
 
@LucDanton I dont want to enforce it having those functions, but do a default action if it doesnt have em, does the boost concept stuff allow that?
 
8:57 PM
The main difference is that with a trait you query and you get true or false.
 
yeah, thats what i need then
i'll do it the sfinae way
 
Concepts however will trigger a hard error, in all situations. The implementation is usually a function body that triggers an error, it doesn't use the type system so no SFINAE possible.
I don't see anything relevant in Boost.TypeTraits so you might want to submit your code to SO or codereview.
Or open a question.
 
That code is present on Wikipedia too
Substitution failure is not an error (SFINAE) refers to a situation in C++ where an invalid substitution of template parameters is not in itself an error. David Vandevoorde first introduced the acronym SFINAE to describe related programming techniques. Specifically, when creating a candidate set for overload resolution, some (or all) candidates of that set may be the result of substituting deduced template arguments for the template parameters. If an error occurs during substitution, the compiler removes the potential overload from the candidate set instead of stopping with a compilation ...
Well, something which is similar to that code.
 
Yeah that's standard stuff.
A review can be desirable however in case something like ADL wasn't right or so on.
The devil is in the details.
 
@LucDanton thats the bit im not 100% sure on, not sure if it will always match a non-templated operator<< found via koenig lookup over my templated ones.
 
9:04 PM
@Node I don't get in this example how it deduces which test method to call
 
@Node I want to say that what you wrote is correct but I'm not 100% in working order right now so I should keep mum.
 
-9
Q: How to split long string equally and store it into an array?

Yoga Possible Duplicate: Splitting a string / number every Nth Character / Number? How to split long string equally (based on a slice length) and store it into an array (string array)? dim BigString as String = "very long string" dim SliceLength as int32 = 2

just wow
 
@Xaade If it fails to find an operator<< for the type, it falls back to my templated version that returns "function_not_found".....and that matches test(const function_not_found&) more closely than test(...), so thats the one it uses
 
And the idea is that either a class member or a namespace free function will be picked (the latter with ADL) rather than the fallback case.
 
0
Q: Having a class parent and a class child how can a child call parents function?

KabumbusSo I am class_parent and I create an instance of boost::shared_ptr<my_calss> a is it possible for a to call any of my methods, how, is it possible with any of Boost libraries?

 
9:08 PM
@Node I didn't see the templated version of the operator.... I'm looking at it again. ... almost understood that one on my own.
 
@LucDanton just tried it where operator<< is found via ADL, and it used that instead of the templated version. all is good
 
Good luck in your endeavours with those traits :)
 
MakeType returns two objects of the Type and attempts to perform the operation, but I don't see how that returns a function_not_found. I could see how, if the template contained the operator, but function_not_found is the only place I see an operator.
So with the first int
MakeType < MakeType returns two ints.... which finds the operation and returns the result which calls the "yes" version of test.
However, with A
 
With fundamental types like int it's easy; no overloaded operator can be chosen.
 
MakeType < MakeType returns two As, A < A would fail to compile....
That's where I get confused
How does it resolve no test
 
9:11 PM
@Xaade function_not_found is the return type of detail::operator< (and detail::operator<<)
 
Sorry, my son woke up from his nap, and I had to go for a while. Did I miss anything? Somehow it seems people are talking about C++; I thought that was forbidden here...
 
@Xaade when it does makeType() < makeType() - where Type = A the compiler will look for <any-return-type> operatior<(const A&, const A&) - the closest match is function_not_found operator<(const Type&, const Type&), so it considers the type of the expression makeType() < makeType() to be function_not_found.
 
AH.....
GOT IT
It uses the function_not_found class when the Type doesn't contain the operator
 
yep
 
Because function_not_found templates out with type....
Well, that certainly extends every binomial operator for two identical types to call on the function_not_found.
 
9:14 PM
simples.
 
Unless the Type contains the operator.
 
Or ADL finds something.
 
But..... int should be a POD.... how come the POD operator resolves first?
 
operator< for POD types exists in the global namespace
 
Do templates resolve only after any available operator with a discreet type is checked first?
 
9:16 PM
yes
 
not necessarily
 
So, since discreet typed operator resolves first, it works for POD also.
 
The first thing that matters is the order of the different scopes that are searched.
 
templates can be a better match than still-usable non-templates
but non-templates are still preferred over templates
 
non-template prefered over template over ...
 
9:17 PM
over templates and non templates alike in the next scope.
 
never had a date
4
that you couldn't inflate
what a bummer being you
 
0
Q: A new algorithm mess up trying to be coded

heavy rocker dudeA new algorithm mess up trying to be coded Forgive me if my code is messed up badly. Anyhow, I was a given a model with the description of: Let x1, x2, ..., xn be a time series, the variance V(x, t) at time t is defined in statistics as: V(x, t) =Sum [ (x(t-k) - ma(t-k))^2, k=1, 2, ..., m] ma...

 
wow, my Meta question got upvoted like the shizz
20
Q: Attention-grabbing questioners

DeadMGFirstly, I've been looking at some questions with broken tags recently. Take a look at What is the difference between Platform-Independent and Cross-Platform? for example. The question is about terminology and has absolutely nothing to do with C, C++, or Java, and I re-tagged it as such, and left...

soon I'll get a silver badge on Meta that I don't have on SO
 
@DeadMG I fixed those tags BTW
It seems people want to tag both C and C++
it's not just that user
 
and he's not the only one tagging just to increase his audience
 
9:29 PM
he had a point, questions in C/C++ are jumped upon rather quickly
but that's not the reason to improperly tag
 
Downvoting questions unrelated to C++ that get linked here by their owner suddenly strikes me as a good idea.
4
 
yes
it also strikes me too
 
sup
C is way better than c++ none of those class things
lol jk
 
10:00 PM
Welp, Bastille day is over.
 
lol good post man
that's some pretty good psudo code
 
10:37 PM
So, I wanted to say something and then I forgot it.
 
rlc
Hi all
 
rlc
Back from vacation...
Anybody here have an idea for a good laptop to develop on?
 
10:56 PM
Hi all
 

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