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3:00 PM
Getting drunk midnight is way better.
 
@Collector But seriously, I think theres a market for it
 
Well, don't let us stop you.
Go forth and market, just like God said.
 
You could ofcourse move it to alaska as well
 
@KajToet If I knew more of how it worked, the site was proof-read and sounded more official, and I knew it wasn't a scam, I would consider it.
 
@Collecter Ok, good to hear. Gives me some motivation to work it more out. Think it could lead to an article on slashdot, or is that too farfetched?
 
3:04 PM
And I would removed the "debugging" from the cycle.
Mentioning unpleasant ideas is not a good marketing tool.
 
@Martinho Ok, replacing it with scripting
 
@KajToet Maybe make it so that if they go to kalpha.com it is not a half broken page.
 
Wholycrap that index page was not supposed to be there :| Kalpha.com is a totally different website
 
@KajToet I assume you are doing this to make money? How would you assure a steady stream of contract work? And how would you get money? a % of the contracts? Flat rate upfront?
 
@Collecter I think this would work best as a non-profit organisation. Ofcourse you need money to pay everything; which you would get by having indeed a percentage of the contracts.
 
3:11 PM
That sounds exactly like the opposite of non-profit.
 
So the idea is that itll be an outsourcing company without the many drawbacks.
 
@KajToet You will need to articulate that a bit better. Who is paying whom and how much.
 
Non-profit means that it is not profit driven
 
No it doesn't
 
but can keep it self up
 
3:12 PM
In a lot of place it has a legal status.
(brb checking local laws)
 
@KajToet And where would this company be based out of?
 
It's nonprofit if the owners don't get any of the profits.
 
@MartinhoFernandes That is correct.
 
The profits are used solely to continue the organization's goals.
 
@MartinhoFernandes Does not mean they cannot have a salary though i believe.
 
3:14 PM
The owners?
Only if they are employed by the organization.
 
@MartinhoFernandes As long as they work indeed.
 
@KajToet I'm not sure I entirely agree with this definition but you are correct that the operation can sustain itself from a percentage of the contracts as you mentioned.
 
@Collecter I think the thing is to have as many coders avaiable at first, then to find contracts based on the expertise at hand
@Luc Danton Indeed, and I think it will provide more trust
 
@KajToet So you want to havea database of interested coders, match them to contracts, and send them somewhere?
 
We ship coders. They ship software.™
 
3:17 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Quick, go register that.
 
@LucDanton: What's the latest lazy future version?
 
@Collecter the hard part would be setting it up initially ofcourse. you would basically set up a business in a foreign country (except that the business already is set up, but has no programmers)
 
@Collecter So ofcourse you would need to hire a manager as well
and what nto
 
The future is lazy indeed. I leave a lot of work for the future, but it never gets it done.
 
3:19 PM
@KajToet How is this different from any normal remote contract work?
 
I hate it when websites don't tell me whether it's my username that's wrong or my password.
 
@KajToet If i could find my own contract, I would go anywhere and not have to give you a %.
 
@Maxpm It's a security issue.
 
The future is never comes so do not worry about it.
 
@MartinhoFernandes I suppose.
 
3:20 PM
@Collector That the company in question, ArenaByte, will arrange visas and a living/working space. As well it supplies a working environment identically as you would have in a regular company
 
@maxpm it's a lazy programmer issue hidden as a security issue
 
> Check old email
> 113 old messages
> The end of days
 
the guy just SELECT FROM users WHERE name = $name AND password = $pass, if there is one row, success, otherwise one of them is wrong :P
 
@KajToet Wouldn't you have to have a location in a lot of countries to arrage work visas? I do not think you can arrange one to a place you do not have a location.
 
@Collecter correct, but you can add branches to different countries, I dont think thats an issue. It would be most manageable to start in a single country and focus on that.
 
3:25 PM
@KajToet Alright. You just seemed to advertise anywhere at all, so I could go to Togo if I wanted.
though i wouldnt want to
 
10
Q: Should usernames be kept secret?

RakkhiHelp me settle an discussion among colleagues and guide future design: Even in a high impact scenario: e.g. protecting payment application or government gateway but in an Internet accessible application Is it worthwhile implementing any of the following (or other) measures to protect a username...

 
I didn't read it... but yes, its better just to say "you can't log in" I agree...
it's just annoying
 
@Collecter Maybe I should make it more of a web 2.0 thing, in which case one would be able to view the number of applied programmers to a country, and choose a country based on that.
 
In some cases, it's irrelevant though.
 
if you have more than one email, you never know what is the one you used to register, then you have to try all possible email+usual passwords you use
 
3:28 PM
Like the top voted answer mentions, in some sites, your username is public.
 
@Collecter However, it is viable to have a good internet connection ofcourse but nowadays that could be almost anywhere
 
@hexa I don't know my passwords.
 
I just use "JonSkeet" for all my passwords. I trust His power to protect my accounts.
 
.......
it works
 
3:30 PM
What works?
 
·············
 
if you type your password, it appears as ..... to anyone else but you
 
Not gonna try it.
Classic MMORPG/social network scam.
Almost as bad as "Send me money and I'll pay you back twice as much."
 
it is a famous quote: bash.org/?244321
 
@LucDanton: ideone_Sd1Ye.cpp:169:1: sorry, unimplemented: mangling modop_expr
 
3:31 PM
@Maxpm No. That scam is with splats: *****.
This one is for real.
 
What did you do???
 
It shows spots: .......
 
@KerrekSB Yeah the same happened to me, I switched to a recent snapshot. It's the assignment operator that is going it, you can blank out the #define DEFINE_LAZY_ASSIGNOP and change the computation.
 
brb, food
 
3:33 PM
@hexa Oh God.
 
Hm, I'm trying to run it through the preprocessor to get a real error line number, but unfortunately the preprocessor overrides line numbers
 
@KerrekSB I had no problem running the preprocessor but I did not try to compile the parsed output, I picked out the error from there.
 
Yeah, I can run the PP, but I don't know how to find the erroneous line in the preprocessed output
 
It's the operator+= and so on.
Probably.
One of them.
 
How to suppress line number mangling from the PP? One could strip out all lines starting # from the output...
 
3:38 PM
Perhaps there are magic formulas to coax GCC to ignore those but yeah, I'd try to remove them too.
Got it: error at line 38678
 
Good God. 40k lines?
 
@KerrekSB Haha don't bother it's useless.
The macro expands into a big flat line anyway.
Guess I can always check out around the 525th character of that line...
 
Do! :-)
 
It's the operator() of struct plus_assign
What do you want to do anyway?
 
@JerryCoffin OK, so how do I deserialize a float without using type-punning?
@LucDanton Nothing per se, I was just curious which construction would break the compiler!
 
3:50 PM
@Maxpm You cannot tell user whether username or the password is wrong.
It's security 101.
 
As long as basic operations work, this is still pretty cool.
 
All of this compiles and runs with a 4.7 snapshot.
 
Is there a good Linux tool for audio conversions? I might just make a cron job to convert iTunes's files to regular mp3s and move them to my music folder.
 
@Maxpm "good", "linux" and "audio? Choose any two ;)
 
And iTunes's files in the mix? No.
 
3:59 PM
Anyone here believe in the saying "Linux is free if your time is worthless."?
 
@Collecter No, because it lacks a true opportunity costs analysis, i.e. I have to spend time for everything I use.
 
"believe" might be an exaggeration. It's not an article of faith or something. But it's fundamentally true for any "free" product which takes the tiniest fraction of a second of your time
 
And my time is really worthless.
 
but yes, there is a bit of truth to the point it's trying to make. :)'
 
And that uses the free as in beer meaning.
It's nonsensical with the free as in speech meaning.
 
4:02 PM
the "free as in speech" meaning is borderline nonsensical in any case
 
I should have known people would pick at it.
 
@jalf What is not libre about libre software?
 
@Collecter well, we are C++ programmers ;)
@LucDanton what can possibly be "free as in freedom" about a piece of code?
It's such an absurd statement to make
 
@jalf I know.
 
Freedom to modify the software.
 
4:04 PM
although the "software wants to be free" is worse
 
Or analyze, observe, etc.
 
@LucDanton What does that have to do with free speech? And what about all the things I'm not free to do with it (because of the license)
 
It's about freedoms
 
I'm free to do a lot of things with Windows too. Not everything, no, but I'm certainly not free to do everything with Linux either
 
"You wouldn't download a car would you?"

I would if I could.
3
 
4:05 PM
saying 'free as in free speech' means that it's the freedom meaning of free; not that it's an issue of free speech.
 
@LucDanton No, it's about quasireligions
 
i.e. it's a workaround for a deficiency of the English language.
 
@LucDanton And again, how exactly is this true? How come I do not have freedom to do what I like with the Linux code base?
 
it's not needed for other languages anyway.
 
Just because I have freedom to read the code hardly makes it "freedom", does it? There's still a license you have to respect, which limits what you can do with it and how you're allowed to do it
 
4:06 PM
@jalf Free software is certainly more free that non-free.
@jalf There are 'anything' goes license, too.
 
@LucDanton Oh, so it's about degrees of freedom now? Not freedom vs non-freedom?
 
Not everything is GPL.
 
Free doesn't have to mean 'most free', it can mean 'freer'
 
how come that's not apparent in the "free as in speech" dogma?
 
@jalf I don't know what you mean by dogma.
 
4:07 PM
i have honestly never heard the phrase "free as in speech"
 
that's what I dislike about it. It's presented as some kind of binary "free or not free" thing. Linux is free, Windows is not free
And when you dig just a bit further you find out that it actually means "free to do a few things that you can't do on Windows"
 
go Yar-har-har! and windows is free
 
No, some people misrepresent it as such.
 
Linux is based on a copyleft license. There's not much freedom about that. It just means the things you're not allowed to do are different
 
The FSF site (as an example) is quite explicit about what it advocates.
You can clearly read somewhere there that 'the only restriction is putting additional restrictions', or some such.
 
4:08 PM
if you want something free, go on OSX (oh... sorry i was kidding :p)
 
@LucDanton but we weren't talking about the FSF site, were we? You brought up "free as in speech", and that's a pretty absolute statement
 
(hello by the way)
 
not a lot of "degrees of freedom" in it
 
@jmartel hello
 
@jalf "Free as in free speech" is, to me, used to disambiguate and nothing more. It's not a terribly profound statement.
 
4:09 PM
So honestly, I'd rather say that some people do not misrepresent it as such. The FSF site is a nice example of someone who gets it right. Most open source advocates are not
 
Then again, my native language makes the distinction between gratis and libre.
 
@LucDanton and yet you felt compelled to ask me "what is not libre about libre software"? Again, this sounds pretty black/white to me
as if you're operating on the assumption that by default everything about libre software is libre
@LucDanton so does mine
 
well, Luc, french makes the difference between gratis and libre, but english does as well in a way, free to use (freeware) , is not free from modifying (opensource)?
 
Yes, because I thought you understood "free as in free speech" as I do. So I thought you really were questioning the libre status of Linux, not the statement itself.
@jmartel Freeware is not usually free (libre) software, correct.
@jalf It was a misunderstanding from a different meta level. Does this make sense?
 
4:12 PM
@LucDanton oh, Linux is as "Libre" as any other "libre" software. I just disagree with calling it "libre" (or free-as-in-speech, or whatever you want to call it)
@LucDanton gotcha :)
 
@jalf What would you use?
 
Time to start a DWTFYW license kernel!
Or CC0!
 
it'd be much more honest though if it could be labelled in terms of which freedoms it offers, rather than how much, because the latter is inherently subjective, and depends on which freedoms you value the most. Some people value the freedom to watch DRM-protected video higher than the freedom to modify the kernel source code ;)
 
DWTFYW?
 
Do WTF You Want license.
An ultra-permissive license with no terms.
 
4:14 PM
@MartinhoFernandes Dunno, I'm pretty happy just calling it "open source".
 
I support that
 
Do Worse Than Failure You Want license?
 
Exactly!
 
@LucDanton I always liked that one. Especially its faq
 
@jalf That's what I use.
I used the "free as speech" expression above because I was addressing exactly the use of the word "free" in the sentence.
 
4:16 PM
@jalf Thinking about it, it's a two-front thing. A lot of people aren't even aware of the issue of restrictive license vs libre; some are but aren't aware of the distinction between copyleft and permissive. Can't have a catchphrase that works perfectly for both those things.
 
@LucDanton Can CC0 be applied to software?
 
guys, i'm sorry to interrupt your very interesting talk about licenses
 
I'm not. Interrupt away ;)
 
@MartinhoFernandes I believe it's one of the recommendation of the FSF for things you don't to restrict.
 
it there anyone here using Mac who could tell me how to configure autocompletion for C++ and included library
 
4:17 PM
I can't :)
 
as i would have on a true and good IDE like Netbeans or Eclipse or anything
 
@LucDanton I just found that. It's very recent though.
 
Actually XCode is really nice when it comes to complete Objective-C but for C++ it's crap
 
@MartinhoFernandes I don't think there is a lot of need for it, but at the same time it's tricky to get right (or so I understand).
 
I usually go with WTFPL/Unlicense.
 
4:20 PM
That's not a good license.
It's contents are understandable.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus What The Fuck Poland/Unlicense??
 
WTFPL is court-confirmed!
 
DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
Version 2, December 2004

Copyright (C) 2004 Sam Hocevar <sam@hocevar.net>

Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim or modified
copies of this license document, and changing it is allowed as long
as the name is changed.

DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION

0. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO.
This is court-confirmed?
What country?
 
I don't remember.
But it was!
 
> Although the validity of the WTFPL has not been tested in courts, (...)
This is what reads on the official site.
The license text itself is not WTFPL :(
 
4:23 PM
@jmartel Oh man, Xcode... We used that for my school C++ class. It's got to be the most frustrating development tool I've ever used.
 
Maybe my memory is trolling me again.
 
@MartinhoFernandes I don't know of a license that is itself licensed under its own terms.
 
A bootstrapping license?
 
GFDL?
 
Or a self-hosting license, I suppose.
 
4:25 PM
But that license allows you to change the text of the license under which the product is released (itself!)
 
Yes; but that would be a different license.
 
License quine?
 
The license itself it not affected. (i.e. you're not producing a modification of it.)
 
But, but...
... the license lets you violate the license of the license under which the product is released.
 
Yo dawg.
 
4:27 PM
So, you don't have to change its name! Hah!
I found a loophole!
 
Unlicense is a bit more formal version of WTFPL, anyway.
 
Congratulations, you have just produced a mental stack overflow :( I have no idea what's going on anymore.
 
I was in the official WTFPL website and the guy just publishes all of his personal information there
address, phone number, etc.
I don't get people that do that
 
Let's go burn his house down!
 
Nah, too lazy.
 
4:33 PM
You're too lazy to stay on-topic?
 
I ain't goin' nowhere!
I should clean up the house. I'll clean up the browser tabs instead.
 
clean the cookies instead
 
Eat the cookies.
 
you can eat bits?
yum
 
nomnom
 
4:38 PM
Free downvotes in questions are bad. I just downvoted a question without even reading it, just because the title had 15 question marks.
 
Should have stuck with 14
 
Can/is usually sqrt implemented in hardware?
 
no, it's usually implemented in software
the call is too rare to justify expending the transistors on-die as opposed to more cache, etc
 
I've seen some DSPs with that implemented on hardware
but then again, DSPs are meant to be good at things like that :P
 
Casual googling suggests that there is an fsqrt opcode for x86; no idea if it's used.
 
4:42 PM
that's what usually is for
I found one for ARM and PowerPC?
 
MSVC uses it, I think.
 
"This instruction is an optional instruction of the PowerPC® architecture and may not be implemented in all machines."
how that works in practice then? in terms of binary compatibility?
 
emulated by operating system is the usual solution
 
How does the OS catch that? Interrupt?
 
when you issue instructions the CPU doesn't understand, it generates an unknown instruction error
 
4:46 PM
"This instruction is optionally defined for PowerPC® implementations. Using it on an implementation that does not support this instruction will cause the system illegal instruction error handler to be invoked."
 
exception on Windows, signal on Linux, etc etc
so the OS has a chance to do the op, and then return to normal execution
 
that must suck.
 
it can do
 
Windows doesn't simulate any opcodes, though. Neither does Linux AFAIK.
 
in terms of performance
 
4:47 PM
the thing is that not having to implement the operation can make the rest of the CPU more efficient
so even if the actual call is slower, the overall performance can be higher
it was mainly used when CPUs changed from CISC designs to RISC designs to maintain compatibility
@CatPlusPlus: Some VMs do, however- for example, if your app is running on Virtual PC, you can issue "instructions" to the CPU which are illegal
 
@DeadMG Nah, it would be an interrupt for both (same hardware after all). The OS can then translate it to whatever.
 
it's also how OS function calls work on some architectures
but I don't know much at that
 
It's used for traps, yes, but I don't think there is any OS out there which would emulate the missing opcode.
 
not anymore
but it certainly has been used that way in the past
 
It appears that the IEEE representation allows a constant time algorithm.
 
4:49 PM
it's also how some page faults and stuff are handled
 
@KerrekSB I believe about the only real answer is "non-portably". Realistically, as long as you write the same bit pattern into a float that you previously got out of one (on the same platform) you're pretty safe, even though there's nothing in the standard that tries to guarantee that.
 
Treat the bits as an unsigned integer: sqrt = (1<<29) + (x >> 1) - (1<<22) + bias.
Nifty.
I can't really understand it though.
 
Heh, talking about square root and bit fiddling floating point types remind me of the Quake trick.
 
I'd need to brush on the IEEE bit patterns.
@LucDanton What Quake trick?
 
I have a hard time digging it out everytime I remember it but it's a fast approximation of sqrt in the source code of one of the Quake games.
Okay I found it from googling 'quake sqrt'
I'm not at my best right now.
> i = 0x5f3759df - ( i >> 1 ); // what the fuck?
This gets me everytime.
 
4:55 PM
But that's the reciprocal of the square root.
 
It's magic.
 
@MartinhoFernandes So sue me.
 
I remember following the mystery unravel from website to website.
 
@MartinhoFernandes that code works?
 

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