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8:00 PM
@TemplateRex it was mostly about psychology
 
@Cubbi still, I had some joint project porting a large C codebase to C++, there were some debates on technical merits that I didn't feel comfortable with, since they degenerated into "it's not how I am used to doing things". I find it hard to adapt my style to such philosophy
 
@TemplateRex Yesterday? Is it CppCon already? It feels like the previous one was 4 months ago :o
I'm getting old too fast ç___ç
 
@Morwenn it started on Monday, with a keynote by the C++ overlord
(it's how he pronounces "overload")
 
:D
I guess I'll just read the slides oce they're available on GitHub.
 
@TemplateRex The theme of that talk was "if you're arguing, you're losing"
 
8:04 PM
@Morwenn imgur.com/a/wAWoB more or less complete imgur
@Cubbi that's what they say in dictatorships as well, don't argue, just accept how it's done
 
@Abyx Sorry to hear about your accident, @Morwenn
 
@TemplateRex It feels like it's saying the same things as it did the years before.
 
@Morwenn yup
 
The Commodore64 keynote from today was way cooler than I thought it would be from the description
 
unified function call <-> no impact on old code
 
8:10 PM
@Cubbi By Jason Turner (lefticus?)
 
The @nytimes goes @StackOverflow. https://twitter.com/sehetw/status/778519732207181824
That was an interesting thing today /cc @KonradRudolph @sbi
 
I'd probably outright fail. ;;
 
oh, I was under impression that google CC bans all non-const references, but apparently it applies only to function parameters so I can write code like for (T& x : e).
 
I still respect how Stroustrup gives to even the new language features he doesn't like.
 
@Morwenn it's also a minor nuisance, bad programmers will do bad things regardless. it's the other part (enabling the good programmers) that he cares more about
 
8:20 PM
@ThePhD yes, his live coding skills are paying off
 
@Cubbi Neato!
I should code more on Live Coding.
 
@Cubbi Also, Godbolt's GCC explorer, I guess
 
Even if it's just me doing homework stuff.
 
@sehe yes, he asked everybody to follow godbolt on twitter (and he gained like a hundred followers)
 
Too late for me
 
8:27 PM
But in the end there was a real C64 on stage and he had hsutter take the other joystick
 
Ven
@fredoverflow yes :D
 
8:46 PM
Black men have legitimate reason to run from police – #Massachusetts supreme court http://on.rt.com/7px6 https://t.co/AuWYZ93U91
^ and police has legitimate rights to shoot'em
(as I was told on r/serveandprotect)
 
please abyx
Anyhoops, that supreme court remark is quite hilarious and damning
 
@sehe what?
I went to that sub to troll'em about similar case, and those certified LEO told me that it's ok to shoot suspects. Got banned as well. Fuck the police =\
 
Wow, my activity on GitHub flat-out died.
 
user image
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8:59 PM
@Abyx Who got banned?
 
@sehe me
 
Unsurprisingly seeing what you just posted.
 
no I didn't post that
 
@Abyx lol
 
I was like "lol murdered another teen with a toy gun, so much for serve and protect"
 
9:00 PM
Hah. Then you won't mind me removing it. Inb4 cry-cry-moderation-power-abuse
 
@sehe that pic? I don't mind, but is it really offensive? free speech and all that free stuff
 
Also. The animal isn't the first one to think uniforms are hot. It's a whole fringe of role-playing business
@Abyx I think it is, too many, frankly. But I can see the obvious humor value.
 
itt @sehe is literally putin
 
See. I called the cry-baby. So easily #triggered.
 
@sehe wrong
 
9:03 PM
Oh. Obviously then. Pfft. "Now I'm literal"/"Now I'm not".
 
I understand that it targets specific group of people and thus violates the rules of SO
 
itt @Abyx is literally trumpin'
@Abyx I wouldn't know about that
 
so it probably should be removed
 
@fredoverflow hey this is fuuuuuuun
 
but fuck them, really
 
9:04 PM
I like how he rants about everything
 
@Abyx If someone objects, I'll probably remove it.
It's on the starboard now, so chances are >0.0%
 
@sehe inb4 meta-police comes in 4 years
 
thankfully I'm accustomed to ST3, and bought it so I don't waste any more hours on learning vim or emacs
 
Right. Because ST3 is innate.
 
a colleague of mine said some good things about VS Code.
but it still cannot be used with a large project like chromium
 
9:09 PM
@sehe by that I'm referring to how he compares the editors through vim-colored glasses, which is fine
I mean, I'm fine with it
 
You deserve an editor like ST3 :)
 
Firearm Symphony: Russian sharpshooter performs Beethoven using Glock pistols http://on.rt.com/7px9 https://t.co/8f7upgsu1a
that's quite badass
 
not really
 
@Puppy ok
grow up to a proper dog, then you'd understand that
 
what I understand is that he's wielding lethal weapons as if they're toys in a completely pointless and gratuitous fashion
 
9:24 PM
@Puppy but it looks cool
 
should be imprisoned, not celebrated
 
also I wouldn't hit all those plates without aiming. not like I was trained though
@Puppy do you know about biathlon?
 
no
 
ah, biathlon might be not a proper English word here
anyways, there are people running and shooting and it's a sport
 
it's a sport if you're an idiot
 
9:26 PM
with lethal weapons, duh
 
arguably I wouldn't even classify running as a sport but that's another matter
biathlon competitors I would absolutely arrest all of them
 
oh
@Puppy I heard that it's legal to carry a sword in Scotland. What's your opinion on that?
 
probably not true but if it is, I'd change it
 
lol you can't even change brexit you dumb pup
 
it's commonly accepted that what you would do and what you can do can be different things
 
9:31 PM
@Puppy yeah, but there are things which cannot be done and those which are impossible to do
 
yeah, but arresting stupid people doing stupid things isn't on that list.
 
and I guess that you cannot change such laws unless you're the queen
you can change your gender but even with that you'll never be the queen because you're a dog.
 
@Abyx i'm not convinced the shots make any pitched sounds at all. It's just rythmic gymnastics with ballistics, then
Maybe they should not have had the double-synthed cavalery at the standby.
 
@sehe I think those plates are metallic
 
@Abyx what
 
9:33 PM
@sehe brexit
 
Come on. You're free to go be childish somewhere else.
Boring provocations be boring.
 
@sehe why, I'm quite serious here
 
Nobody stated otherwise. That's part of the sadness.
 
cancelling brexit would mean that referendums are useless
 
Xeo
And now for something completely different:
I'm standing in front of a 450 line function that I want to completely rewrite, while keeping the same end result. Fuck Epic's programmers sometimes.
They have a serious tendency to write extremely long function.
 
9:35 PM
@Xeo pfft only 450 loc
AND YOU CAN REWRITE IT ffs
I usually cannot touch such piles of crap
 
@Xeo Don't they just start small and clusterfuck it way longer incrementally?
 
Xeo
Dunno how this one evolved
 
That's generally how super long terrible functions are born.
 
Xeo
But I'd seriously like to completely refactor it and split up the logical parts into their own functions.
 
@Morwenn not really
 
9:37 PM
Except for clever algorithms. Clever algorithms are born long and ugly.
 
@Xeo I have this on a daily basis. And I'm happy to improve things. Hard without tests, but I got the mandate.
 
Xeo
OTOH, I also want to submit this to Epic as a PR, and I don't want to do such a giant refactoring together with my actual changes as one PR, since that muddles things. Guh.
 
@Xeo The problem for me is usually that the work balloons so much, that I'd prioritize a full rewrite over that
@Morwenn Never. It's critical that the initial version clouds the goal and method enough so that the evolution is guaranteed to devolve further.
 
Xeo
@sehe Together with my changes, that's what it'd end up as, pretty much.
 
@Xeo did you ever succeed in upstreaming only a refactoring?
 
9:39 PM
@Xeo In other words, you'd like to refactor first, but you'd have to rethink and apply your changes again later, or even worse you'd be able to set up smaller components that only your improvements would justify? :p
 
Xeo
@Abyx Haven't submitted a PR yet.
 
@sehe Oh, I've been doing things the wrong way then :(
 
Xeo
@Morwenn I'd like to refactor first to be able to work with the refactored code, but I don't want to rely on that refactoring in case Epic doesn't like it. So guh.
 
@Xeo I have a feeling that they'd say "we're used to such code don't touch it"
 
@Xeo I understand the feeling.
 
Xeo
9:41 PM
I should just make a new function, and call it instead. My changes need to be optional anyways, so eh, prolly the better idea.
 
At work, I tend to refactor things when I have big features to implement. It's working pretty well.
 
@Xeo I'm finding that my usual approach of baby-steps refactorings to do controlled refactoring/rewrites takes more time than the domain complexity warrants :( It's more rational to just rewrite and thoroughly test the result.
 
Xeo
@Morwenn It works well if you're part of the actual team for that project.
Since you can check in the refactorings and then your changes seperately
and don't have to rely on "chance" that the refactoring gets accepted
 
New bugs be accepted, on the premise that adequate testing is done this round. :\
 
@Xeo True. Right now, I'm reimplementing the selection system of our application from scratch and managed to refactor stuff around. To be honest, once factored out, the refactoring itself is probably bigger than the actual feature. But it was much needed.
 
Xeo
9:42 PM
@sehe Yeah, testing is another thing. No way I can fully test what I'm about to write, since I don't have many potential inputs available (input: Unreal project, output: Android APK)
@Morwenn Yeah, I have done a few of those for our game.
And one more is gonna come tomorrow, although it's not gonna be such a huge refactoring.
And the refactoring also kinda coincides with a feature request.
 
I love that feeling when you've refactored ~1k loc and you managed to get rid of ~100 of them :D
 
Xeo
Guess I shouldn't call it a "refactoring" then
 
They don't call it an addiction for no reason.
 
Xeo
@sehe (cont.) which is another reason why my changes need to be opt-in, rather than completely replace what's there.
 
@Xeo Depends on whether you start by breaking working things or not :)
 
Xeo
9:45 PM
Anyways, speaking of tomorrow, I should prolly sleep.
since it is almost tomorrow
 
@Xeo If you can fit them in days, it's not impressive :) My larger refo is going for ~2 months (not full time of course)
 
@Xeo Please don't say that u____u
 
@Xeo I frequently do that, having two versions of the facility/component so we can use it to dogfood for the trusted parts, and the refo-devs (me) can run it all the time
 
Xeo
@Morwenn it's almost tomorrow~
 
@Xeo You're mean ><
 
Xeo
@caps The actual Epic, as in, Epic Games, as in, the guys that made Unreal Engine
 
Is there a way to check the status of a proposal? (i.e. open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2015/p0135r0.html)
Lets you return brick objects by value.
 
Xeo
@Mysticial IIRC that's in.
 
It's in?
C++17?
 
Xeo
Think so
 
9:48 PM
neat
 
It sure is :)
 
Xeo
Welp, g'night
(@Morwenn 10 minutes~)
 
Together with deduction guides, it makes initiaization even cooler.
@Xeo Sleep right D:
@Xeo Well, I generally go to sleep around 1am so I'm fine.
 
@Morwenn wanna hear something funny (check at least till ~8min, probably the whole thing) youtube.com/watch?v=aIqahT2Tif8
 
@sehe But muh Progenie Terrestre Pura :(
 
9:51 PM
@Morwenn Later maybe? It's better than I expected. By an order of magnitude
 
I'm listening to it. I'll listen to Progenie Terrestre Pura later.
 
:) That's a piece premiered. Bit weird in pastiche-sense (I think the composer is financial lawyer or something by occupation e.g.)
 
Viewed 25 times. Are you a hipster? :p
 
Quite impressed by the orchestra and registration. Seriously considering taking my violin back up and perhaps auditioning with the orchestra. They couldn't have given a better business card IMO
@Morwenn I have filled in with 1 rehearsal to play the orchestra part (piano, obviously). Back then I was more appalled at the sheer number of notes and writing style, and only had vague Poulenc-associations left and right.
Nice of them to share the end result
 
The orchestration is really well-done. Subtle enough, rich but never too much.
 
9:57 PM
Mmm. I'm going to give that honour to the executioners performers, actually.
 
Wow, I'm impressed at how I manage to type the wrong words just because they sound alike.
 
But yeah, there's a kind of consistency throughout
 
The drums sound quite loud for an orchestra though. On the other hand, they sometimes sound like modern drums in their structure. Maybe it's by design.
 
user image
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^^ Really Google?
 
@Morwenn Yeah, I think it's the mic placement. I strongly suspect there was only a single (stereo) mic
 
10:00 PM
@Mysticial Unit cost: 200,000,000 USD. Is it more expensive than C++17?
 
@Morwenn Gonna ask, because, whatever it was, the equipment is great. The choir was eminently understandable, strings nice and crisp etc.
 
@sehe That's impressive with orchestras. One take, one mic, and it's still cleaner than everything I've done with my band to date.
 
@Morwenn Oh and, yes, the drums are a pop-kit. That's why I said it's a weird pastiche-collage
 
Oh, ok :)
They do sound like a jazz drum set.
 
@Morwenn Well. I can assure you, with bands and orchestras alike it's all down to the performance (and the arrangement, maybe).
@Morwenn Oh, yeah. Not sure about the diffs there. So prolly jazz kit. I meant to say "modern drum set"
 
10:02 PM
@sehe We're said to play a genre that is especially hard to render clean.
 
Knowing your tastes, that's bound to be true. (I think the trick will be: play less and add subtle reverbs to "blend" the "open spaces"?)
 
Probably because it's almost impossible to hear the accordeon over the drums without Larsen.
 
Lemme see whether I can clip a piece of a Bigband recording we did last saturday. Also interesting.
 
Eh, even once properly recorded and master, our new song that I shared a few hours ago is still way behind a live orchestra D:
 
I tend to think live orchestras are to blurry. So...
 
10:06 PM
Oh. Don't come to one of our concerts then.
I'm done with the orchestra piece. It felt less « cliché » than I thought it would at first. I wouldn't say that it's among my favourites, but it's definitely enjoyable and I'm impressed by the quality :)
 
This time I don't want to abort listening to Progenie Terrestre Pura, sorry :(
 
@Morwenn It can wait, np :P
It's mostly re: one take
These guys did it the ultimate one-take style, direct-to-vinyl
 
Well, that'll be another 20 minutes then :/
@набиячлэвэли 7That's insane xD
 
@Morwenn hehe
@Morwenn well it's taking me long enough to redo my ardour setup
 
10:18 PM
highly recommend the commentary video as well for the semi-technical deets
 
10:29 PM
@Morwenn This was a live gig in the city centre of Brielle. Lots of wind and - well live :) stackoverflow-sehe.s3.amazonaws.com/…
 
@sehe COuld you remind me of that later? I'm eally falling asleep and I won't last muc longer ^^'
 
I'll try :)
Don't fall asleep now
that would be a waste of time
 
Thanks, and bye :)
 
Night!
 
@sehe Your best to be true?
 
10:35 PM
I'm not boolean, dummy
 
@sehe Do you not get the classic Country references?
but gud jok
 
@sehe More like bipolar. :-)
 
@набиячлэвэли surtunly not
 
@sehe for shame
 
10:54 PM
@набиячлэвэли If he were a good singer (or musician or songwriter) wasting it on country music would be a shame, but (fortunately, I guess) he seems to lack any hint of talent or skill.
 
11:06 PM
lol:
Hahaha, well, I'm pretty sure all I needed at the time was a simple if statement. I must have asked this when I was taking my first coding class. But thank you (5 years too late) for the detailed response! — Max O'Neill 5 mins ago
 
11:19 PM
I fucking hate GCC 4.8. =/
 
Eigen::VectorBlock<MyMatrix, 2> p1gradient = gradient_matrix.segment<2>( index_value );
That works in VC++
Since they won't allow me to use C++11
But when I port it over to GCC 4.8?
That shit BREAKS.
"Can't convert from blah blah blah to blah blah blah".
So I can't auto that garbage bullshit
And GCC 4.8 won't let me convert to the EXACT TYPE THAT THE FUNCTION IS RETURNING
 
42
Q: Why does the value of 4*0.1 look nice in Python 3 but 3*0.1 doesn't?

AivarI know that most decimals don't have an exact floating point representation (Is floating point math broken?). But I don't see why 4*0.1 is printed nicely as 0.4, but 3*0.1 isn't, when both values actually have ugly decimal representations: >>> 3*0.1 0.30000000000000004 >>> 4*0.1 0.4 >>> from de...

^^ A floating-point question that isn't "just another one"...
 
isn't it?
 
> const VectorBlock<Derived,Size>
tfw Eigen returns const not-references.
 
11:26 PM
weirdness
 
So Eigen::VectorBlock<VectorXs, 2> compiles in VC++, when I call the .segment<2> method that returns a non-const value of VectorBlock<VectorXs, 2>
But it doesn't compile in g++ 4.8.4, and it refuses to tell me why.
 
MSVC contamination at it again
 
"Cannot convert" but -why-.
I would believe MSVC contamination if this was a reference type, since VC++ has that "You can convert non-const ref to value".
But there's no refs being returned here. Just a value.
 
Time for Stack Overflow
 
I didn't have to do this fuckery with C++11.
Whatever. I'll just make a copy.
Copies are fast anyway. Chandler told me so.
 
11:35 PM
@sehe Need to keep in mind that consumption level is not linearly proportional to wealth amount. If someone has million times more money than the other - it does not mean that he personally consumes millions times more resources like food, oil, iron, etc, etc.
 
Not seeing why that makes heaps of difference.
For sure, the people under the povery line will not have any say in how that surplus money gets invested, if that's what you mean.
It's not about consumption. It's about distribution of resources.
 
@ThePhD I learned that long ago from Mr. Xerox.
 
@ThePhD Sounds like it was written pre-11. :P
 
@Mysticial nice
@ThePhD Copies arent fast, that's why we have move ctors :P
 
meanwhile I'm grappling with svn.boost.org/trac/boost/ticket/12093
sigh
 
11:41 PM
im not sure what youre grappling with, everything is green?
 
@sehe On this scale, I would say it is distribution of power. If someone would have 50G$ instead of just 1G$ - what would change? Would he spend/consume personally 50x more? No, but what would change is influence.
 
Me too. Power is a resource.
 
@sehe I think it's worth noting that 1) it's probably somewhat out of date now, and 2) it was somewhat deceptive even when it was made. Came down to this: most people's net worth comes down to the value of their home. In 2012, many Americans had virtual no equity in their homes, thanks to the housing crisis. They were often in the same home they'd been in for years, paying about the same as they had been, but suddenly it was worth a lot less.
 
That's quite a chain of assumptions. I'm willing to bet a lot that they did not infer the wealth of the top 1% by their houses
 
The result looks terrible on paper, but unless you had to move (or for other reason had to sell a home right then) usually made little difference in your life. 10 years earlier, their homes had been worth a lot more, but they weren't really any better off. Now, their homes are starting to be worth more again, and that doesn't make a lot of difference either.
@sehe That's not an assumption, it's a fact. They're inferring people's wealth from their net worth--but for the vast majority of people (no, not the top 1%, but many others) that comes down to the value of their home. Very few have car, TV, etc., nice enough to contribute materially to their net worth (and many are at least slightly upside down on most of them most of the time).
 
11:47 PM
The chart is not about how miserable or hungry the middle class feels.
 
Okay.
I need to model a really awesome phenoma that has no collision
and uses spring forces
Time to go digging into a physics video or something
Or, maybe I can make one with gravitional forces.
Black hole with a spring.
 
@sehe No, but it's not really about distribution of resources either. I have a house. If somebody rates the value of my house at $350K more than I owe on it, then my net worth is probably around $350K. If housing market drops it might now be worth barely as much as I owe on it, and my net worth is close to $0. But, key point, I still have exactly the same resources (i.e., the very same house) that I did before. The only way it makes a real difference is if I need to sell it soon.
 
9 mins ago, by Evgeny Panasyuk
@sehe On this scale, I would say it is distribution of power. If someone would have 50G$ instead of just 1G$ - what would change? Would he spend/consume personally 50x more? No, but what would change is influence.
 
@sehe Yes, it is about power and influence of a person's decisions. But not about ALL kind of resources - super-wealthy people may own on paper million tons of iron, food, etc, but these resources in fact are used and consumed by other people.
 
@JerryCoffin The whole chart is not about the absolute numbers. It's about the relative distribution
@EvgenyPanasyuk Hehe. So, they're effectively charitative mini-governments?
Reminds me of "Rich people create jobs".
(I sure hope the successful business do, but certainly the number of jobs created is not in a direct proportion to the wealth of those people/corporations.)
 
11:55 PM
@sehe Irrelevant. The point is that it's not related to real resources. It's related to a fairly arbitrary number that's been attached to the resource. Housing market goes up, I'm worth a lot. Housing market goes down, I'm worth a lot less--but I have the same resources either way. When its value went down, my house didn't shrink from 5 bedrooms to 2. It stayed exactly the same.
 
So cool. "We can't measure it well" -> "We should forget about it"
 
@sehe And what this relative distribution means in fact? How it should be scaled (logarithmic?) to make some sense? Or maybe of total order is what matters, not the numbers themself?
 
You keep narrowing it down to just the housing. The vid also talks about the income distribution, sec
 

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