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8:00 PM
Meanwhile.... whyyyy did I get involved in this?:
 
Ell
I'm drinking again
 
@TemplateRex that's cool but why you'd want to split a string into a pack of chars if you can do anything with it in a constexpr function
 
@Ell :c
 
Youtube comments again? You are grounded!
 
8:03 PM
@Ell Water.
 
Ell
it's delicious again
 
Xeo
@LightnessRacesinOrbit EX-TER-MI-NATE
 
@Ell le glug
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I will have to disagree there.
 
8:05 PM
@Xarn Go on then (this'll be good)
 
If you refuse to accept that there is an accent that is usually called british (Lets leave aside whether it is called so correctly) you are being deliberately obtuse.
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit A brit accent is an accent from Britain, right?
 
You could of course make an argument that the mode of accents in UK is different from the stereotype, but that is different thing entirely.
 
@Xarn That's not true. I imagine that most people could distinguish English, Scottish, and Irish at least.
 
@Puppy Quite easily, but nor scottish nor irish accent are called british accent.
 
anyone who calls an English accent British whilst distinguishing Scottish or Irish is clearly an unqualified moron.
 
Ell
whaat I thought google bought twitch
 
@Xarn There is no "British accent", because there are actually multiple ones.
 
@Ell They were talking about it. It wasn't finalized.
 
To say "British accent" (singular) implies there is only one.
 
Ell
8:11 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I don't think so to be honest
Just like saying "Thomas has a car" doesn't imply there is only one car
 
@Xeo At least it wasn't acquired by Facebook for five billion dollars.
 
what was that, Oculus?
 
@Ell IME "British accent" universally means "the accent from a 3 mile squared area of London, England". Certainly in the context of those comments this is true.
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I guess we have different experiences then :)
 
Xeo
@Puppy Ye
 
8:15 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit True but utterly irrelevant since we both know that England, (and Great Britain in general) continues to use Imperial units in addition to metric units (IOW, essentially indistinguishable from the US in this regard).
 
Metric units best units.
 
And Instagram for a billion dollars IIRC.
 
the only Imperial units I've seen is miles for distance.
all the rest were metric.
 
And WhatsApp for another ridiculous amount.
 
Ell
@Puppy What about yards? on road signs?
 
8:17 PM
not sure
maybe
 
@JerryCoffin If only gallons were gallons.
 
but, for example, food, drink, and petrol all come in metric units.
 
@Puppy Really? It wasn't so long ago that I was there, and saw distances to turn-offs marked in yards, and I'm quite certain when people ordered a beer at the pub, it sounded suspiciously like the word they were using was "pint".
 
Ell
@Puppy Pints?
 
@Ell lolyards
 
8:18 PM
@Ell Milk is definitely in litres now.
 
Ell
Is it? Oh. You still order pints of alcohol though
 
as for the pub, I think that whilst you call it a pint, the actual definition as to how much liquid is in it is in metric.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit If you mean thing that is also called BBC english, yes. If somehow you mean cockney, lol no.
 
Ell
@Puppy Fair point
568ml I think
 
@Ell I use feets and inches for short distances, and pints for malt-based alcoholic beverages.
 
8:19 PM
@Ell We have those in Italy too
 
That is ordering in imperial for all useful purposes.
In metric you would be ordering half-litres.
 
besides, I've never heard anyone actually measure a thing in pints.
 
Time for a shower, trip to club and five 568.261485 ml of Doom Bar.
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel Ah. The minimum alcohol I drink is a yard ;)
 
@Puppy You never go to pubs, eh?
 
Ell
8:20 PM
@MartinJames Woo! Was I correct?
 
@EtiennedeMartel They don't actually measure the liquid in pints.
 
@Puppy ...which matches how things are done in the US (virtually all the non-metric units are defined in terms of the metric ones, and have been for decades).
 
they just pour a whole glass full.
 
There are still proverbs/colloquialisms regarding pounds of butter in French as well. A result of the transitionary mesures usuelles where the pound (livre) was 500g for a while.
 
@Puppy When I order, I specifically order a pint.
Because I want a pint of the stuff.
 
8:21 PM
@Puppy Since when? Back when I lived in England, milk was definitely not in litres. (Well it had a note saying how many litres it was, but it wasn't primary unit of measurement)
 
(And then they give me 500 mL, so)
(Yeah)
 
So I’m not sure what we’re looking for here.
 
@Xarn It was a few years back. I don't recall because I couldn't consume the stuff for a while.
 
Ell
I order pints too
and cans come in pints
 
@EtiennedeMartel Me too, in a glass that holds one pint, so I immediately know that it's full without struggling to find some stupid line ground onto the glass.
 
8:22 PM
@EtiennedeMartel That means they gave you pint. Same thing like when I order half-litre and get approx 450 mL, because fuck people who look like tourists.
 
Ell
in fact
I'm going to have a pint of cidre cider right now
damn you stella artois!
 
:-/
cider is sold in 4 dcl glasses here.
 
the local shop sells pints, or various fractions of a litre, for alcohol.
 
@Ell You mean Belgian piss?
 
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel I don't really drink stella. So I guess yeah :P
 
8:24 PM
I just checked the milk and the local milk is sold in litres, and the milk from the supermarket is listed in both metric and imperial.
 
It's Belgian piss.
 
Ell
I always feel bad when I edit a ping. Can we write down the etiquette on the lounge wiki somewhere?
 
there's no need to feel bad as long as it's not excessive.
 
@Puppy Is any of the two measurements whole?
 
If you really want Belgian beer, get some Chouffe or Chimay. Both are pretty safe bets, and easy to find.
 
8:25 PM
Guys you are doing it wrong. Czech beer is where it is at.
 
Czech please!
 
@LucDanton Metric.
petrol here is per litre also.
 
Ell
I definitely agree that SI units are superior (although some of their decisions are silly.)
 
@Xarn Czech beer is what? The true nadir of that perfect storm of pisswater known as beer?
 
Ell
but I don't agree the uk is transformed
 
8:27 PM
I think that in practically every place where it really matters, we use metric.
although now I come to think of it, the tape measure here at home is marked in both metric and imperial and that's pretty common.
 
Ell
@Puppy I quite disagree. Driving is pretty important
Really quite important
 
@JerryCoffin You are from US. You couldn't tell what is good beer even if God came down from heaven and gave you bottle.
10
 
@Ell But it's not a place in which you make measurements that may be incorrect.
 
Ell
@Puppy Yeah
 
so really, I don't see that it actually makes a difference there.
 
8:31 PM
@Puppy I think road signs still use imperial because it would have been too costly to replace them all.
 
@Xarn Lady Sanza is not a cockney, no.
 
Not sure if you guys have noticed, but some of the talks from C++Now 2014 are up.
9
 
tl;dw
 
hmm, ConceptClang, huh
 
Ell
@Puppy Where matters?
Idk what percentage of the uk drive but it's a lot.
 
8:39 PM
right, but does the system of measuring road distances actually matter to the act of driving?
 
Ell
Not so much
but does it in anything?
 
@Puppy Nah you just sort of close your eyes and hope you end up where you want to
 
I'd argue that in places like science and construction it clearly does.
 
Why does Walter Bright think RAII isn't used for exception safety?
 
Xeo
> Looking forward to Twitch plays Amazon Delivery Drones :D
lol
 
8:41 PM
for example, the regulation height for a doorway here is two metres.
 
@Puppy "Turn.. left..in.. two..times..ten..to..the..power..of..11..Angstrom..units'
 
@Puppy No, it's not. The number of litres is written on the milk bottle too, but the increments are pints.
 
@Puppy It might be a way to keep people thinking while on the road. If your car has speed in km/h and the signs in miles... They'll have to do some conversion to no miss exits
 
Anyway.. beer.
 
@Puppy Again, no, wrong.
 
8:43 PM
@Rapptz The link explains that in depth, I think.
Hang on, I need to reread stuff.
 
@Puppy What else do you call "measuring", if not pouring into a properly-sized receptacle, dumbfuck?
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Sure, but I'm pretty sure that all cars for sale in the English market are marked in both.
 
Ell
It doesn't matter
 
at least, when I was a young'un, my father's car which was quite old at the time was marked in both.
 
@Rapptz He didn’t say it’s not used.
 
Ell
8:44 PM
What matters is that my gravatar is in .svg format
 
@Puppy That's common knowledge for anyone born since 1980.
 
@LucDanton It's kind of implied.
 
alright I'm caught up
 
Well, it's implied (to me) that he said RAII is not as useful for exception safe code as scope(exit) blocks.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix All cars manufactured for use in Britain have a predominantly mph dashboard, with km/h underlay for use on the continent.
 
8:45 PM
I gathered that they (scope guards) compose better. His words, too.
 
If we suddenly switched to metric on the roads, (a) everybody's intuition of speeds and distances would now be useless, and (b) all the cars would need updating.
So, yes, it "matters".
 
I don't agree with him then really.
 
Okay but I don’t think it’s related to usefulness.
 
I see the use case for scope(exit) though.
 
as far as I can tell, the general consensus of the C++ community is that RAII is strictly superior to scope guards.
 
8:47 PM
Er, those are orthogonal.
Scope guards use RAII.
 
Jan 19 at 2:45, by Lightness Races in Orbit
user image
 
I'll drop this in and get out.
 
best selfie ever
 
Ell
@Jefffrey this is my wallpaper!
 
8:49 PM
scope(exit) blocks seem good for the shitty C APIs that make you do an init phase to set up their evil stuff.
like SDL
 
seems like it would be even better to use a proper class so the logic can be re-used correctly.
 
Not really, you can just have a RAII wrapper
It's p superfluous for C++
 
yeah
 
a scope guard is only better than a class if the exit logic is never used more than once.
 
Not to mention that in case of library init, teardown is most of the time not important at all
 
8:50 PM
sdl is obviously evil
 
but I meant without creating a 'dummy object'.
 
Also there's atexit
 
and that's not the kind of condition you want to base a language feature on.
 
which is Walter's biggest selling point apparently.
 
Btw I’m fairly sure the arguments in the link predate C++11, when it became possible to portably implement a concise scope-exit emulation. Keep that in mind.
 
8:51 PM
You should be exiting with exit() anyway
Fuck the teardown sequence
 
@CatPlusPlus I guess Microsoft developers followed your advice to develop the driver api
 
bah
people who terminate the process should be terminated.
 
You are not the room troll any more @Cat, no matter how much you want or try to be.
 
much easier to reboot than having a proper teardown
 
8:51 PM
I love nothing more than processes who swap all of their memory in just to free it!!!!
 
@LucDanton His comment was made yesterday though :v
I use std::exit.
Come at me.
:v
 
Feel free to point him towards a C++11 or better scope exit emulation (I have no idea if it’s entirely replicable).
 
I used _exit yesterday
 
I don't even know how to emulate it.
 
Why is it called "scope exit emulation" does it mean that it doesn't actually does it?
 
8:53 PM
in the case of SDL I do sdl::init x(/* flags */); so I have a dummy object x.
 
I solved that problem in Wide by simply extending temporary lifetime to the whole scope.
5
 
In the case of SDL you can just call SDL_Init and not care
Memory and GPU resources are torn down by the OS just fine
 
scope(exit) foo -> auto&& g = on_exit([&] { foo ; }); is a good start. The usual retort is that it is easy to forget the variable g, there are unused variable warnings etc. I don’t recall what Boost.ScopeExit uses, I assume there are macros and __LINE__ tricks etc.
 
yeah boost uses a macro
 
stackoverflow.com/q/25494084/560648 lay on the downvotes plz to teach this idiot a lesson
 
8:55 PM
Plus if you really really really really want the useless ~~cleanup~~ done, you can just use atexit
 
@Puppy in other words, you destroyed RAII
(sort of)
 
@Puppy iunno how I feel about that.
 
Eh :s Either I terminate early or attempt to gracefully rewind to main. atexit seems like a half-measure (for most programs).
 
honestly, I've almost never seen any cases where immediate destruction is required, and people have dangling reference problems all the time and/or really need deferred destruction for stuff like locks.
 
atexit is nice fire-and-forget for these things
 
8:58 PM
There it is again. Puppy's never seen cases where immediate destruction is required, so he removed it from the language allowing nobody to use this feature.
 
so it seems to me like I trade in not having to name stuff like lock variables and having a much lower problem with dangling refs, and I trade out practically nothing.
 
The world would be a lot easier if Puppy were the only one living in it (and then at least nobody would need to put up with his moronic bullshit). <3
@Puppy Having to name lock variables did fuck me up once :(
SOMEONE JUST UPVOTED THAT DUPLICATE WTF
 
@CatPlusPlus I don’t know, the handler is not in a lexical scope. For non-trivial stuff that means some thinking about lifetimes and races.
 
I had to use _exit because Allegro's controlled ~~useful cleanup~~ was crashing for some reason
@LucDanton In 100% of the cases it's library's global state teardown
 
I avoid this stuff as much as possible.
 
9:01 PM
I have seen SDL wrappers use std::atexit.
 
SDL docs tell you to do use atexit
 
I think sdl should be destroyed
 
I don't like SDL either.
 
It's p annoying
Allegro is much better
 
last I saw allegro it was pretty bad
guess I'll check it out again
 
9:03 PM
Probably 4
5 is better
 
sfml seemd right if i'm not messing the name
 
SFML is nice
ah this is ugly
 
0
Q: Announcing Stack Snippets

HaneyToday we're proposing a new feature to the Meta Stack Overflow community: Stack Snippets. What Do Stack Snippets Do? Stack Snippets make code blocks runnable. Go ahead and try running this code! alert("You can even do alerts"); .hello { font-weight: bold; font-size: 1.5em; } <div cl...

 
that looks cool
 
SFML tries to be C++ but reinvents a lot of shit for no reason
 
9:05 PM
they should also use coliru for C++ and give @StackedCrooked money
 
could be said for virtually all large C++ libraries frameworks
 
@CatPlusPlus Btw how do you handle things like I/O flushing? Do you separate bits of code that can afford to bail out, vs those that don’t?
 
like what?
 
@LucDanton Yeah, usually
 
the only bad thing I know about is sf::String.
 
9:06 PM
Makes sense :v (for realsies)
 
@Mysticial oh god why
 
they might be tired of JSfiddle links
 
@Mysticial that's totally not going to get abused... really
 
:p
 
as far as I remember C++ doesn't really do well considering the wstring type
 
9:10 PM
Things you need wstring for:
 
Stack Snippets don't support MUMPS. I am disappointed — gnat 1 min ago
What are MUMPS?
 
also no native support for encoded strings
 
MUMPS is COBOL for hospitals
 
sf::String is a shit wrapper around std::basic_string<uint32_t>.
 
hm
 
9:11 PM
@Rapptz Custom char traits too?
 
Nope.
Hence 'shit wrapper'.
 
wot
 
It's probably worse than COBOL
MUMPS (Massachusetts General Hospital Utility Multi-Programming System, later: 'Multi-User Multi-Programming System') or alternatively M, is a general-purpose computer programming language that provides ACID (Atomic, Consistent, Isolated, and Durable) transaction processing. Its most unique and differentiating feature is its "built-in" database, enabling high-level access to disk storage using simple symbolic program variables and subscripted arrays, similar to the variables used by most languages to access main memory. The M database is a key-value database engine optimized for high-throughput...
 
> "M, is a general-purpose computer programming language that provides ACID"
 
So to output zipcodeText to the console, so I can see it. I simply write << cout zipcodeText; before my main correct? — MatthewTingle 1 min ago
 
9:12 PM
So, even more of an std::vector<std::uint32_t> then?
 
In FORTH maybe
 
they even do this
it makes me irrationally angry
 
~consistency~
Also so many implicit conversions
 
Ell
I'm eating rice
 
In both ways
 
9:14 PM
constructing a string from a char ._.
 
Ell
but idk what it even tastes like
 
> static const std::size_t InvalidPos; ///< Represents an invalid position in the string
 
Ell
I'm too durnk ton knw
 
why would you even do that.
if you're gonna wrap std::string at least make it better in some way.
 
9:14 PM
Because C++ does that too with npos :v
 
I sent in a PR to fix the inconsistency with std::string and it got rejected
 
which is shit and no wrapper should continue it
 
They probably should just nuke everything in System
But ~~oh god dependencies~~
 
it actually "supports" wstring and wchar... except as far as I know, windows as a 2bytes wchar and unixes 4bytes...
 
yeah a lot of the stuff there is available in C++11.
but SFML is a C++03 library so meh
 
9:16 PM
not sure how they expect it to work on windows/unixes flawlessly if reading wchar
 
Also typedef Utf<8> Utf8; :allears:
That template is very necessary
 
does c++ has support for encodings?
 
How else can I communicate with systems that expect UTF-9?
 
// Make typedefs to get rid of the template syntax
are templates really that ugly
 
9:21 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit R.I.P. @Ell
 
> This won't work because sf::String provides implicit conversions from and to all possible string types. Code would become much more complicated to write and read
 
@PolymorphicPotato yeah
 
> I wonder how much of the crap was actually purchased....
 
They actually wrote this nonsense for the stupid implicit conversions
 
9:22 PM
Amazing
 
I see you found my rejected PR :v
 
@LucDanton Personally I deal a lot with systems that expect UTF-2556987.
 
I can see writing wrappers to get rid of implicit convs
 
I think they're better as free functions.
iunno
 
Ell
@PolymorphicPotato idk who mike brown is
 
9:28 PM
You are drunk, Ell. Go home.
 
Ell
I am hoem!
:D
I dipped some spare ram into my cider to clean it
alcohol is good at cleaning
 
yes, but the sugar, water, and other gunk in the cider is certainly not.
 
oh god I got into a YT comment argument
these are the worst
even worse than trying to talk sense into @Puppy
 
YES I KNOW RIGHT
 
9:31 PM
I think Light. may explode soon, dealing with 'I'm getting no error. Other than 'libc++abi.dylib: terminating with uncaught exception of type std::invalid_argument: stoi: no conversion (lldb)'.

So, no problem there...
 
Wow. You really have no standards.
 
and also cleaning alcohol is not normally ethanol, I believe.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit And here I thought I was an idiot for reading YT comments.
 
I decided to drink in tonite. It's pissing down and there won't be many in.
 
I'm not that bad, it seems.
 
Ell
9:32 PM
how do I reply to a youtube comment
 
it's customary to throw feces at the screen.
 
I'd much prefer if you made mobile chat work. I can't even star things. Come on! — Lightness Races in Orbit 7 secs ago
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, you are
@MartinJames :(
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, but not as much as you are.
 
9:34 PM
@Rapptz ISO/IEC:14882 (2011) for me
@EtiennedeMartel yeah
@MartinJames stop talking about drinking :(
 
I hope I still have beer in the fridge.
 
I've already checked - I have Wadworths 6X :)
 
@CatPlusPlus lol first comment
 
Oh.. and a 4-pack of Bombardier. Forgot about that.
 
Ell
I have a bombardier in the fridge
might crack it open after I've finished this stowford press
 
9:41 PM
@Ell Second-best place for it:)
 
@Xarn "good beer" is an oxymoron, which renders the remainder of your statement meaningless.
 
Ell
@MartinJames first being in my stomache?
or maybe your stomache ;)
 
@Ell Definitely mine:)
 
FWIW the easiest gold badge at MSO seems to be Reversal. One only needs to pick an unpopular question and trash it more or less thoroughly in the answer — gnat yesterday
heehee this sounds like fun
-5
Q: Translate C++ Comments from German

user2945953I have a chunk of code that was written in Germany. Can anyone translate these into English? They are from a virtual base class if that helps. //Synchronisation //Initialisation //Hilfsfunktionen //Selection Funktionen //Setting Funktionen //Name Funktionen //Funktionalität Thanks

 
9:53 PM
Oh god...these words are so phonetically the same as english, I'm sure a child could infer their translation... — Devarsh Desai 1 hour ago
 
False friends
etc
 
I doubt these are false friends
unlike you and I
 
Well yeah but still
 
Inferring translation can be dangerous~
 
Ell
9:56 PM
I submerged my sd card in lemon juice
 
Sorry, I can't read your last message. It looks like English, but I can't be 100% sure you weren't speaking another language with similar-looking words. Would you write in some unambiguous language for me plzkthx?
 
Ell
but it'd be fine if I dry right?
 
god my plate's highest temperature setting literally puts hellfire under the pot
@Ell Why the fuck are you submerging electronics in shit you drink
 
You have a self-heating plate?
 
Ell
it was by accident
 
9:58 PM
@CatPlusPlus why would you drink lemon juice
 
Also I've used too much water for the rice again I'm so terrible
 
@CatPlusPlus drain some
 
Ell
there was also other alcohol
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Haven't you seen Better off Ted?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It's great after vodka :v
 
Ell
9:59 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it's with other stuff too
I can't stop drinking long island iced teas
honestly they are so tasty
 
We call that alcoholism
 

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