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12:06 PM
okay so I still don't understand powershell
but at least I got it to work
 
powershell is like that frequently for me
numerous ways of doing the same thing that are never quite what you want
 
is there an escape sequence for newlines?
like \r\n in C#
typing [Environment]::NewLine every time is boring
nvm I already found it
it's ` n
without the space
ok so here it is

`gci *.dll | %{ New-Object -TypeName PSObject -Property @{ "Path" = $_.FullName; "Flags" = (corflags $_) -join "`n" } } | fl -GroupBy Path -Property Flags`
prints all CorFlags for your dlls :)
which I needed but I don't remember why
 
diagnose assembly binding problem?
 
yep
I remember now
SGEN : error : Mixed mode assembly is built against version 'v2.0.50727' of the runtime and cannot be loaded in the 4.0 runtime without additional configuration information.
very nasty build error
 
not specifying what that additional configuration information is, obv
 
12:12 PM
apparently the "fix" is to add additional configuration to your machine config
fixing it for your machine but not for everyone elses
GREAT FIX
10/10
would fix again
 
worth digging into the .net configuration logic to see if there's anywhere else you can inject it, perhaps. I know of one case where the 'default' is to amend machine.config but there's an alternative place to supply additional config sections
if it's a web app, applicationHost.config might do it, for example.
 
I'm trying to work out why it was working before
first time seeing this error
it broke when I merged two csproj files
but since we were always mixing 2.0 and 4.0 assemblies, shouldn't I have encountered this error before?
 
ah maybe platform configurations? So you know files like web.Debug.config show up sometimes?
 
yeah no I already checked that
Release|AnyCPU everywhere
TargetPlatform 4.0
I mean TargetFramework
TargetPlatform AnyCPU
I'm confused
 
what I had in mind was, in the merge you may have lost something from one of those files that wasn't carried over that bypasses the problem
 
12:19 PM
well, I'm comparing them line by line
so far nothing as far as I can tell
 
vOv
 
12:40 PM
Hi guys.
 
Hey , I know this is not the proper chat, but I thought I would give it a shot.
I am trying to learn Visual Basic, and therefore in the search of a book about pure Visual Basic, but the once I found on eBay are quite expensive I think; does any body sit with the name of a very good book about learning Visual Basic, in English :)
would be greate :)
 
You should learn C# instead.
 
^^
VB is not doing well - it's going ?out
 
@scheien +1
 
Sadly there is no time (the bosses say) to rewrite/convert it.
2
 
12:45 PM
so you are patching or adding new features
 
@Jesper Isn't it always the case ...
 
Missunderstood this. :p
 
@Jesper There's time at your new job though ;)
 
@SteveHémond I think it is :) even thus yes it would be better to just convert it
@juanvan I am adding feartures
 
but..
you can write the new features in C#
 
12:47 PM
Well you have the source, that is a good start. Do you have it checked into a source control?
 
and then add a reference in VB
 
@juanvan I am doing that as we speak .. the former version control was windows folder system :)
 
Good - then you can go back if you have a problem
What version .net does it target?
 
source\old
source\newold
source\new
source\newnew
source\newest
 
@StevenLiekens as I can see its just pure VB no .NET
 
12:49 PM
ya try MyCode_SomeDate.exe
 
oh hell no
 
that last msg was to @juanvan
 
vb 6?
ugh
 
YES
 
retroooo
 
12:50 PM
I've worked on VB6 apps. In the last counts fingers 5 years or so
 
tell your boss it's a lost cause
 
@scheien thats the next best thing .. I am unsure of what version of VB it is :)
@StevenLiekens I will do that I have a meeting with him in 9 min :P
 
tell your boss you don't know VB
 
@TomW 2007 was the last time for me. Was yours a business-critical system? :)
 
@Squiggle shrinkwrap software
 
12:52 PM
@TomW :X
 
ty for the chat , will go to that meeting now :)
chat / help
 
good luck, @Jesper
 
why am I always excluded from architectural meetings?
 
Much like clubbing on drugs or visiting Hull, VB6 is a great thing 'to have experienced'.
5
 
12:54 PM
lol
:)
 
@StevenLiekens Just be thankful you have them.
 
@StevenLiekens your opinions are too powerful!
Django Django make good codin' music
 
@Squiggle Dubstep fits for me. ^^
 
If I want to do web development like I did on C#, but can't deploy to a windows server, what can I use?
 
12:59 PM
but then you have to develop with mono's limitations in mind
 
@C4ud3x what's your preferred flavor of dubstep?
 
CoreCLR
 
Yeah and I don't understand mono's limitations
 
@Squiggle Oh normally I'm not hearing any dubstep. Its just when Im coding. So Im not familiar with subgenres or even artists. But a song Im addicted at is "Bone N Skin - On Fire (DatPhoria Remix)"
 
@Griffin If you're OK with waiting a few months to stable releases, look into ASP.NET vNext.
 
1:02 PM
@Squiggle In general Im just youtubing for "dubstep gaming". Enough stuff out there. :D
 
@Griffin Otherwise, indeed, mono, but that's meh.
 
@RoelvanUden Is C# really the only decent language for web applications? First reaction was to look into Java but people seem to hate Java web development. And I liked the MVC structure and want to be able to implement it fairly easily.
 
Java? ugh :(
 
should look into this MEAN stack thing for web development
 
as @TomW and @RoelvanUden said, .net core and asp.net 5 will be the best choice.
 
1:05 PM
I keep hearing good things about it
 
@scheien Tell me about it. Just trying to figure out what to use for web application development and there's like 5 different packages for it and none of them sound relevant. Or even logical.
 
@Griffin It's not. There is a lot of hate going around for languages like Java, PHP and Ruby, but they aren't bad at all. It's just different, and whether you like it is a different thing entirely.
 
apparently MEAN is javascript from top to bottom
 
@StevenLiekens That just means the marketing is good.
 
I'm skeptical
 
1:07 PM
@RoelvanUden I'd use java if their explanations of things made sense.
 
@Griffin I prefer ASP.NET or NodeJS+TypeScript for web development. I use the former professionally and the latter for all personal projects. That doesn't mean that those are the only good choices.
 
@StevenLiekens Mongo, Express, Angular and Node, as a guess?
 
@StevenLiekens I dislike javascript. Strongly.
 
YES
4/4
I win
 
1:07 PM
@Griffin Have you tried TypeScript yet?
 
@RoelvanUden No but I think you're right I'd like it far more.
 
@Griffin: I usually lean towards what I know. Do you want to learn something new, or just like to do something different?
 
But then I'd have to combine MEAN with Typescript?
 
@C4ud3x I'll give that a listen to! I've not really dubstepped in a good few years, so I'm totally out of the loop.
 
The MEAN stack (that is MongoDB, ExpressJS, AngularJS and NodeJS) is pretty powerful. But that's just because of AngularJS making a SPA, and the choice of NodeJS+ExpressJS as API, that just communicates with MongoDB. There is no reason you can't swap out any component for something else to get other properties. AngularJS+C#/WebAPI+SQLServer is pretty insane, too.
 
1:09 PM
@scheien In this case learning something new isn't a problem but I have an objective in mind and I'd use C# but I'm not deploying to a Windows server and I dislike the idea of using mono in this case.
 
^ Angular/WebAPI/SQL Server is my drug of choice.
 
^ that
 
@Squiggle what ORM you use?
 
SQLServer is ACID and MongoDB isn't. That's a consideration you make.
 
if you don't want to run on mono or java then it's between node.js or php
 
1:10 PM
WebAPI has open queries and is INSANELY good with queryables.
 
or ruby or python if you absolutely have to I guess
 
@Griffin: then you have .netcore and asp.net 5, which might make things a bit easier than mono.
 
I'd like to run Java if someone knows about a package with some structure.
 
But hey, if you want to swap AngularJS for ReactJS, be my guest. Take the properties you need for your project. Sticking to "one stack" because you "heard it's good" is just stupid. :P
 
@juanvan EF6 but I'd be tempted with Dapper instead.
 
1:11 PM
@Squiggle Linq2Db over Dapper for compile-time safety and queryables
 
fair enough
 
@RoelvanUden: I tend to always stick with what "randomForumuser5454" says.
 
@RoelvanUden Trusting random people on the internet who say things are good is the reason I come here.
 
random people are better then random drunks at the bar
 
That depends on what you're after.
 
1:17 PM
Well.. technically.. we're random people on the internet, too.
 
Exactly my point :P I'm just like "these randoms look like they know what they're doing" and then I ask what I should do.
Then I listen to what you guys say and if it makes sense I go ahead with it.
For everyone except for Kendall. Never trust Kendall.
5
 
o/
 
@juanvan define 'better'
 
ya never smell
 
Education time #1: Considering databases: Look at whether or not you need ACID. If you don't, performance benefits of NoSQL solutions may hold your preference, and allow horizontal scaling (which is where the true benefit lies) as well as free-form data. You don't need schemas, which is both a blessing and a curse, depending on your needs.
 
1:21 PM
@RoelvanUden I didn't know acid was that popular in the technology community. I thought that stuff died out in the 80s.
 
Education time #2: Considering web interface (SPA vs 'traditional' pages): A SPA does not need to transmit a lot of data, getting a new page just requires the raw data and it does the processing in-browser. In the long run, it saves bandwidth and thus results in a snappier experience for the user. But, up-front requires more processing (getting the JS downloaded and evaluated to start building a front-end) and slower devices may not have that power (mobile?).
 
goddamnit, my VM just broke on windows 10. Fucking display drivers
 
@BenjaminDiele Heyyyy display drivers are the weak point on my machine too.
 
fuck you nvidia drivers, i hate your guts
 
@BenjaminDiele Waittt I'm not running on Nvidia I think it's just integrated stuff. Sooo it might be everyone.
 
1:25 PM
 
Kinda like that
 
kinda?
 
@Griffin except you want something in Haskell or Regex, then he'll know the answer ^^
 
@RoelvanUden can you answer me man? you can say no but at least answer!
 
@Slashy What?
 
1:31 PM
@RoelvanUden dont you get notified in the private chat?
 
@Slashy There is no such thing as private chat.
 
i just sent you mty right email lol
 
@SebastianL kek
 
itapiatu12@gmail.com or try itapiatu09gmail.com
pleasae please please it would be a very honor to me to see your project
i know maybe it's not the right time
but in your free time, please do that favour :)
 
I forwarded the previous failed e-mail to the new one.
 
1:33 PM
coudlnt you just upload it to somehwere?
or skype
i dont know
 
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

itapiatu09@gmail.com
Your e-mail is shite.
I don't mind mailing it at all. Just give me an e-mail that actually works.
 
lol am i lieing?
@RoelvanUden maybe it's a problem in the gmail
try to this zohar0101@gmail.com
 
I'm not saying you are. I'm just saying that I can't send an e-mail to either of your e-mail addresses without getting a failure to deliver. :/
... It may have arrived this time.
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

zohar0101@gmail.com
Um.. so do you have somewhere I can upload it then?
 
@RoelvanUden try this filedropper.com
or just this mediafire.com
in the first 2 you dont even need to register
thank you soo much for making an effort :)
 
Seriously though, why doesn't your e-mail work? :|
 
1:51 PM
 
lincoln marxism lol
 
in a webAPI method I see a parameter to a function as DateTime? endDate=null
what does the ? mean?
 
nullable
 
165
Q: What is the purpose of a question mark after a type (for example: int? myVariable)?

GenEric35typically the main use of the question mark is for the conditional, x ? "yes" : "no". But I have seen another use for it but can't find an explanation of this use of the ? operator, for example. public int? myProperty { get; set; }

just googled it
thanks tweray
should have googled it first
 
1:57 PM
I hope we get not-null syntax in next C# :)
 
@Jeremy We have 2 of them already, what else do you need?
 
we've got the null-conditional now
:?
and null-coalesce ??
what others do you need?
 
@KendallFrey I mean like object! notNullObject = new object();
 
You can add as many nullable operators as you want, C#'s nullables will never be as good as Haskell's Maybe
@Jeremy urgh
 
@KendallFrey Why urgh?
 
2:03 PM
We should just abandon the entire concept of null already.
 
you mean to force something to be declared and never null?
 
because bye-bye sane and consistent syntax
 
@RoelvanUden a very noble assertion.
 
well, we never really had that
 
"We might break backward compatibility <insert whining here" -- fuck off
 
2:04 PM
posted on August 31, 2015 by ericlippert

One of the C# oddities I noted in my recent article was that I find it odd that creating a numeric type with less-than, greater-than, and similar operators requires implementing a lot of redundant methods, methods whose values could be … Continue reading →

 
@Feeds right on cue
 
\o/
that's freaky
 
@KendallFrey What's so wrong "!" as used there?
Here's the proposal, btw: github.com/dotnet/roslyn/issues/227
 
then if i have
Someclass! Something;
what will happen?
 
@tweray Wont compile
 
2:09 PM
so... you can't declare it unless you assign it some value on declaration...
well, then... it's useless, you can't even use it to declare properties or attributes
 
@Jeremy "Reference variables are nullable by default, and value variables are non-nullable by default, except that ! can be applied to reference variables to make them non-nullable, and ? can be applied to value variables to make them nullable." Take me home to Haskell ;_;
 
Enter F#
 
@KendallFrey What's so bad about that? Do you just feel like complaining today?
"!" fits quite nicely into that picture.
 
@Jeremy It's complicated, and inconsistent
Would be much better if "everything is non-nullable, unless declared with a ?"
 
Yes please.
 
2:14 PM
@KendallFrey Sounds good. Just rewrite the CLR. edit: guess that's not really necessary.
 
that will create some disaster
everybody has to update their codebases
 
Why would it be a disaster? Or require a rewrite?
 
@Jeremy I'll just switch to GHC
 
just think about your current codebase, howmany "?" do you need to add
 
@RoelvanUden Backwards compatibility.
 
2:15 PM
So what. Stop being so scared of breaking a little backward compatibility. That's the reason we're still explaining to noobs they have to stop using Begin and End functions lol
Major version bump (4 -> 5)? BREAK EVERYTHING YOU WANT
 
@RoelvanUden well, you know, it's not "little"
 
@RoelvanUden Sounds good. But, if that's released in 4.7, realize that nobody on 4.6 or lower will ever upgrade to 4.7 for existing projects.
 
Small version bumps( 4.1 -> 4.5) break nothing
 
Or 5, or whatever.
Point is, we've gone smoothly from 2.0 ever since dev was started with minor hiccups.
Making a breaking syntax change like that would absolutely ruin us for next major version.
 
@tweray I'm not expecting C# to magically become as nice as Haskell, I'm resigned to the little idiosyncracies
 
2:16 PM
And this is exactly why we're still stuck on 2002 technology and we're all frantically running around trying to find an alternative that gets it all right. :P
 
@RoelvanUden Well, really, this is why technologies have such a short shelf life.
C# is less crufty than Java and much less so than C++
 
@Jeremy I had an idea once that would allow non-backwards-compatible changes in a language
 
and Go is comparatively less crufty than C#.
 
unfortunately, it's non-backwards-compatible with existing languages
@Jeremy Yep, I'm not denying C# is good
just not fantastic
 
well, then do it in next language... guess what will be it, C% maybe?
 
2:19 PM
I kind of worry about C#. Is it becoming so complex that beginners will find it harder than they should to use it 'correctly'?
 
If I ever make another language, I might try it
 
or C##
 
Not being a beginner, I have no point of reference
 
@TomW It does have a lot of "tacked-on" features
 
@TomW I don't think so. The barrier to entry is low.
 
2:20 PM
@KendallFrey yeah, that's what I'm getting at.
 
Yeah, what Kendall said
They're adding syntactic sugar and room to grow, but I don't feel like they're really burdening new developers by adding it.
 
I feel like more than one way to do something is generally a bad thing
 
Though, I feel this way about most languages.
 
all this nullable stuff technically falls under that category
 
@KendallFrey I don't think the two ways diverge too much here.
 
2:22 PM
you must hate Javascript then
 
@Jeremy I think the biggest issue there is proliferation of advanced features through examples that beginners will try to learn from. A code example full of lambdas and async/await would be pretty difficult for a newbie to understand. Now arguably the solution to that is to not use those features in code examples, but I don't think the community is generally disciplined enough to do that
 
@Squiggle I love JavaScript, as a child. It's a fucked-up language.
I can do so much in JS, if I avoid the sticky bits
 
@TomW Sure, but I started learning C# after .NET 4.0 release, and I didn't find async/await too mystifying.
The top-level abstraction is pretty easy to deal with.
Same goes for lambdas, really.
 
lambdas suck :D
 
Once I find out about a language that is similar to C# but without null and legacy crap I'll be in total favor of abandoning C# entirely. Since THAT is unlikely I'd rather have major versions remove old crap and move to the future where C# is the dominating language for all intents and purposes. Alas, I'll probably never see my dream language :P
 
2:26 PM
My dream language is probably an imperative/functional hybrid, where I can get shit done and still be able to use pure functions and nice things like function composition
oh, and partial application
 
As much as I like C# as a language, I'm kind of beginning to agree more with Stroustrup's opinion of C#.
> It will take a lot to persuade me that the world needs yet another proprietary language. It will be especially hard to persuade me that it needs a language that is closely integrated with a specific proprietary operating system.
 
ok... i'm not good at english, what the hell does he mean?
 
this is pretty much why MS is opening it up.
 
never underestimate the hate of a mac developer
 
@tweray Stroustrup isn't convinced that the world needs C#, because it's proprietary (i.e. controlled tightly by one big company)
@tweray you say "hate". I say "snobbery".
 
2:44 PM
@RoelvanUden thank you so much. one last thing-do you have an idea why im getting that error when the line of Httpserver.Runasync().Wait()
` one or more error occured` error
i guess you'll have no idea what im talking about since you didnt touch this project for years haaha
 
I don't know. Javascript's not that bad. C++ isn't that bad. It's not difficult to write sensible code in both languages. The evil is nasty codebases which exist in all languages. Though, it seems many C++ developers will tell you that every C++ codebase is bad...
 
fml I just found a piece of production code that uses code from a unit test class
what even is wrong with people?
 
@Slashy Uhm, probably admin permissions.
 
still error
but alright
i've bothered you too much
thanks for everything!
 
@StevenLiekens lol
actually laughed out loud
don't know how you make that mistake
 
2:51 PM
the people who wrote this are idiots
 
R# gratuitous unresolved reference resolution?
 
@StevenLiekens in one of our old projects the developer just included the built library of another webapp to use the same data access code. With a hard-coded connection string. Without source control, so we couldn't modify a sodding thing.
 
should change the database password and then tell him to fix it
proof that whoever wrote this is an idiot
public interface IUtcNow
{
    DateTime Value { get; }
}

internal class UtcNowTestImp : IUtcNow
{
    public DateTime UtcNow
    {
        set { Value = value; }
    }

    public DateTime Value { get; private set; }
}
you can just remove the "private" in "private set" to do the same thing
idiots!
I'm surrounded by them
 
@Squiggle there are times when it's a developer's duty to lie and say "No, that's not possible"
Cannot be made to work like that; we have no choice but to take the long path
 
@Slashy No problem. Oh, and by the way, I was playing with the capturing idea a little this weekend. From Windows 8 onward BitBlt performance took an extreme hit since you can't disable window composition, so if you have Windows 8+ the performance will be absolutely horrible. I did look into the new Desktop Duplication API and that's the reasonable alternative for Windows 8+. Look into Duplication API and SharpDX to make it happen. There are semi-examples of doing it.
 
2:57 PM
@RoelvanUden yea but i just figute out that the regular method of copying from screnenshot is faster then both.. haha
 
@Slashy What?
 
@TomW agreed. Some devs are too quick to say "well technically it's possible but..."
to which the manager snaps "do it as I say because I'm the manager"
which is a nail in the coffin
 

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