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3:01 PM
@RoelvanUden copying from screen*
22
Q: Capture the Screen into a Bitmap

Omar AbidI want to capture the screen in my code to get an image - like using the 'print screen' button on the keyboard . Does anyone have an idea how to do this? I have no starting point.

 
@Slashy That's actually really, really slow.
 
@RoelvanUden even with sharpdx i was never able to push more then 35fps
 
But since Windows 8 and composition it's comparable to BitBlt (which was ~120x faster in Windows 7)
 
this is work up to 40!
and pretty stable
 
Did you actually use Desktop Duplication?
 
3:07 PM
@RoelvanUden what do you mean?
oh
the api?
@RoelvanUden eveything is c++ lol
 
@Slashy Yeah but you can use it from C#. On Windows 7 CopyFromScreen could push ~15FPS, BitBlt could push ~1500FPS (but you would be better off using the refresh rate). Since the required sync in window composition BitBlt was reduced to ~20FPS. Desktop Duplication should still reach a much higher speed.
Because it can avoid the sync
 
1500 fps???!! @RoelvanUden
i've never heard aboout that
dude it's.. just.. i have no word. 1500?!?!?
 
Yes BitBlt WITHOUT sync could acquire that speed. It just copied the output buffer so it was fast. Now with sync it has to wait for the next refresh composition lock and thus spends most of its time blocking..
 
Therefore it reaches only about 20 now
@Slashy BitBlt is in the zip i send to you, its what I used
 
3:16 PM
Interface all the things!
imma make some SOLID interfaces, is what
 
there's no harm in extracting interfaces
 
@ton.yeung glad your on today, have many questions
@StevenLiekens yeah, extracting them out and throwing them away
 
@ton.yeung thoughts on gulpfile... considering a pattern where you put each task in its own file and load them dynamically
 
is there a resharper thingy that converts a static class to a singleton class with instance methods?
 
3:22 PM
gulpfile.js
tasks/
   styles.js
   scripts.js
   build.js
@ton.yeung I seen this in a gh repo, i like the organization since the gulpfile can get messy so quick, but it also feels like overkill
 
sigh... kids nowadays
I don't suggest to do this => I can do it
Don't do it => I won't let you know if I do it
 
i wish 4.0 would get here sooner, its been in the works for a while now
 
@RoelvanUden you say bitblt is even fastter?.. lemmie try yours
 
i actually dont use it, i just use callbacks
 
we just shouldn't hire anybody directly out from college, at least give me some responsible adults please
 
3:28 PM
hiring just out of Univ. is a good strat if you need to have a strong few employees a year or two after
hire them, sign a contract, put 20k of training into them, and wham you have a subject expert
 
it's not about skill or what so ever, it's they can lie to you without a eyeblink
@ton.yeung nah, it's not the first time, and i talked with him once very seriously about honesty already, i guess i have to be the bastard and pull the trigger this time
 
@RyanTernier sure, they can be a domain expert after a year or so of training, but don't go thinking they know how to architect solutions or anything :)
 
@Squiggle Why on earth would i put a fresh out of the womb person on architecture? I don't put people with 3 years experience on architecture.
 
@RyanTernier precisely...
@RyanTernier hasn't stopped some people, though.
 
sigh... it's not about being slow or low skill or not smart, in fact this guy is way too smart... it's about you always have to concern each every single word in his report, and always have to be afraid of the fire in the backyard
 
3:33 PM
And yet, it happens all the time... "Not enough people" is the excuse, or "Bob, the architect is busy" so they just assign a greenfield project to a college kid b/c, well, he has nothing else to do... Years later people wonder why its so shitty
 
i've put juniors on architecture so they can learn, but they're on a team, learning. Ie, the architect will design, the junior will diagram the design, or log things
 
that's good practice, yarp.
 
@RyanTernier I'm glad to hear that (but not suprised coming from you). Thats the way we succeed long term in this industry is through mentoring.
 
My boss once put a Junior Java Developer in charge of writing a BizTalk ESB, without any support from seniors. I cried, tantrumed and said "this will fail". I was reassured it would be ok
 
@RyanTernier and if you guys happened to transfer 1 mil to somebody, what will happen?
 
3:38 PM
1 year later I was asked how long it would take me to write a quick WCF SOA app because the biztalk solution is behind schedule
@tweray 1 mil?
 
$1,000,000
 
somewhere at Oracle is a guy whose job is to keep creating virtual machines to boost this number i.imgur.com/4Qd7ggR.png
2
 
@MikeAsdf lol
 
@MikeAsdf I think they've written a script to do that. Their EC2 bill is astronomical.
 
funny fact, it was 3 billion already like 5-6 years ago if i didn't remember it wrong
 
3:42 PM
37
Q: Do 3 billion devices run Java?

Alfredo OsorioI was installing Java today and this was shown in the installation. Is there anything that supports this claim?

 
it's beautiful
Reminds me of a pro-wrestling match I once saw
 
@ton.yeung Here is what I'm working with, I'm heading out to a Dr appt soon, will be back in a while. If you have a chance to look over this randomly and provide feedback that would be amazing. github.com/carbonrobot/template-hapijs-angular
 
nice
 
funny that the 2 guys on bottom still staying on phone, sooo professional
 
 
1 hour later…
4:48 PM
hiya
 
Hiyo
set up a sonicwall FW and a home server over the weekend - much easier then this old pix
 
user1804599
@MikeAsdf 3 billion devices run Ask Toolbar.
 
250
NSA 2400 - no Lic. is on the latest os
replacing a pix with it
nothing yet, I can't update the pix - hate command line pix
wanted to play with the WRG with SD card reader but never got to mod the thing
yaa - the cheep version
still have the WRG
ya they are
 
5:16 PM
@ton.yeung concerned that it should be using sequence or ?
apparently if you say "only pickles" at Mcdonalds, you only get 1 pickle
@ton.yeung ah, i didnt see that comment, good catch
i actually want it to run async, not in sequence for the build, but i should refactor that gulp.start out
 
Wil
Hi guys, just a quicky that I think would get closed on SO - can anyone advise a good workflow for modern web design with c# MVC? I have a designer who does his job, then it takes me a while to modify it to work how I need it to as a template... then, when there is a minor change to be done, it can take ages to find the place and do it all again... There must be a better way!? Just wondering what others do?
 
@ton.yeung that was my understanding
if im wrong, thats awesome
ah, i see
parallel via array
ok, refactoring
 
@Wil: Have your designer make the markup in mvc templates/views as well, then you're home free.
 
@ton.yeung do you have a build without watch and serve?
 
@ton.yeung: hehe yeah
 
5:26 PM
ok, so you dont reuse, just copy-pasta
but thats not a biggie
 
@ton.yeung and if you make them learn, you run the risk of what you get back from them being almost 100% pure, concentrated anus
The good old "give it here, I'll do it myself" school of project management
 
Wil
@ton.yeung basically a directory with html/javascript/pictures etc. I put them in to the relevant MVC places... he is a very good designer, but, I doubt he would be willing to code/learn
on top of that, sometimes I like to make little tweaks - programs like brackets is cool, but, just doesn't work with c#/MVC ... Do you (or anyone here) know of better tools, or ways to make it work?
 
@ton.yeung I don't see this as a conversation where finding fault is necessary
 
Wil
@ton.yeung heh, before you say me (or even him!) it isn't a problem, it just gets annoying and I feel there is a quicker way... The templates are good, but, it is time consuming to take a file (e.g. index.html) and then work out where the changes are and split it to the main template, and many partials...
it isn't a problem - just very time consuming splicing up a main file to several templates/partials and more...
again, just want to know proper workflows that other people do in production as I feel so slow when doing this...
 
Ive been down this road many times, and it comes down to the designer and what they are willing to do. Best case is they create it in VS themselves, next best is they create it in partials and merge they html to test, then hand off partials to you, or go with what you have.
 
5:34 PM
I have nagging doubts in the back of my mind about MVC for this kind of reason.
 
After a couple dozen large MVC projects, I don't think even the 3rd option is that difficult. If it is, one might consider restructuring the MVC project and removing the unneccessary complexity of too many partials.
 
@ton.yeung I'm having trouble articulating it. Basically it seems to me to railroad the design of views firmly into the domain of the application developer, whereas actually content designers need to be close to that stuff more than the developer does
I mean, there are CMSes built around MVC. But it's almost as though the framework itself makes it difficult to actually go about content creation if you don't have one
 
It's not a problem unique to MVC. Angular has the same concerns, Backbone, Ember, PHP, Rails, etc. In all forms of web application development its difficult to separate completely the designer from the developer
 
@CharlieBrown and really, who wants to talk to designers
Not I!
 
Can't say that I feel chopping up a mock is a lot of work. Though it would help if the designer did it by him/herself in VS.
 
5:42 PM
There is no silver 9mm on this one. typically we build apps then hand off what we built to a design agency who then tweaks and reworks it. We then integrate it back into our code. But myself and my team are full-stack, we do html, css, js, and backend code in c# or nodejs
 
@ton.yeung flah flah latte flah flah macbook
 
@ton.yeung ok, next up. debating the merits of multiple build files (gulp files)
 
@ton.yeung yeah, I would guess so.
 
yeah, not checked in yet
But im considering having a second gulpfile within the /test folder for running tests..
Unit tests are fast (Jasmine), Angular tests are a little slower (Karma), and e2e tests are slow (Protractor)
Obviously e2e only runs on demand.
Jasmine and Karma tests could run after file changes, but should they run in the build?
 
@CharlieBrown are gulpfiles anything like makefiles?
i.e. contain multiple targets and targets that can be defined as composition of other targets?
 
5:54 PM
@TomW very similar, but not the same idea behind it
 
@ton.yeung first pass read that as white people
 
Still wont prevent checkin to git anyway, but we can run on the build server (Jenkins) after they push to master (or whatever branch)
 
@CharlieBrown I've said to various colleagues at various junctures in the past that anything called "build" should mean build, not build-and-do-some-other-nefarious-shit
 
He is very hostile to white people ;)
 
IMHO
 
5:59 PM
@TomW Isn't 'build-and-do-some-other-nefarious-shit' known as a release?
 
well, it might be.
that might just constitute running some tests
or copying some binaries somewhere
I used to lose my shit with complicated post-build events that would fuck around with stuff
 
@ton.yeung oh, you mean a white monkey?!? unbelievable
lol, nice
no, i definitely need that though, my wife sees 10+ and I start getting the evil eye
 
6:23 PM
i don't even know what that is
 
Today Stack Overflow has severely disappointed me
 
sorry :C
 
head hang shame repeat
 
Tells you how far over the boat is heeling, in airplane terms... angle of roll
 
194
Q: Warlords of Documentation: A Proposed Expansion of Stack Overflow

Kevin MontroseIt’s been 7 years and 10,000,000+ Questions since Stack Overflow was launched. The amount of good that has been done for the field - all the developers helped, all the person-hours saved, all the beginners who grew into professionals - is hard to overstate. I cannot express how proud I am of wh...

We are now supposed to duplicate everyone's documentation!
Yay. Select, Copy, Paste, Stack Overflow!
 
6:28 PM
i don't mind if they just boot some document.stackexchange.com
 
wow, that would be horrid
 
as long as i don't see it, i don't care
 
Nope, not document.stackexchange. An entire new interface for "topics" on Stack Overflow.
 
In the case of github projects especially, the power in keeping documentation with its source code where it belongs
 
this api sucks -> wait there's documentation -> lol what is this stackoverflow thing -> let me complain about the api on SO
 
6:31 PM
soo... wiki-style MSDN docs?
where do I sign?
 
I actually like MSDN docs, it just lacks for examples
 
It does, which is what SO is for.
Examples. To real world encounters.
I think that this quote said it best: "I expect to find canon, word-of-God from the developers, and not a blooming garden of possibly conflicting advice"
 
but i mean... the whole msdn docs... not sure how much it is going to be... very likely after all it will become 90% copy/paste
 
with regards to official documentation
 
a good example is the gulpfile thing @ton.yeung showed me this morning. SO was promoting one thing, then finally a Gulp dev came along and said, heck no
grrr... time warner dns keeps going down
 
6:46 PM
just use 8.8.8.8
 
Abe
hi all again. just a confirm about something. in c# is there something like somevar is Baz<Foo, ?> where the second type argument is unknown? guess it would be Baz<Foo, MinimumRequiredType> and in order to be truthy, must be variant or exactly match. correct?
 
you can have Baz<Foo, object>
 
@Abe - There is, but your example is too vague to show you which part would fit.
 
Abe
say it's Baz<T1, T2> where T1 : Foo where T2 : Bar
not even sure if the syntax is correct
in that case i can't check for Baz<Foo, object> am i right? checking...
 
6:53 PM
you can do where T2 : class or where T2 : new()
or object or anything more generic
 
Abe
There is no implicit reference conversion from 'object' to 'Bar'
makes sense
that unless it's contravariant
right?
 
I'm new to C# inheritance. My parent class has a protected parameterless constructor. Do I need to write a protected constructor in the child class too if I don't want it to be callable?
 
@JacqueGoupil Classes always have a parameterless public constructor by default unless you specify any other constructor in it. Inheritance doesn't affect that.
 
@KendallFrey Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks!
 
Abe
7:11 PM
nope that won't make sense. would work only with covariance. ok, thanks for listening my random elucubrations :P
 
7:23 PM
@ton.yeung sscce
should work fine
 
 
1 hour later…
8:26 PM
@CharlieBrown zooming out on that map makes the problem appear significantly worse
 
no doubt
 
my code works
motherofgod.jpg
 
<image not found>
 
@Jeremy WPF wouldn't make sense - it's and HTML rendered API ... ?
 
Sigh. Apparently now someone at SO will have to recreate all of that documentation here.
 
@ReedCopsey I'm just whining because I want MS to throw desktop developers a bone :(
It'd be nice if they offered XAML controls and styles a la mahapps.metro or MUI
 
@ReedCopsey - What do you think of the documentation idea?
 
9:04 PM
@Jeremy Oh, I do too ;) they've done a bit, but they're more focused on the UWP crap
@TravisJ recreating docs? why?
 
yeah, don't love that idea
 
'Warlords'?
 
9:23 PM
I get what they are trying to do... but I'm not sold their's is the correct approach yet either
 
9:46 PM
I feel like they tried to build a place for canonical posts, and then something went terribly wrong.
 
Well, with notable exceptions, people aren't great at writing them
or finding them for that matter
 
I totally agree with making a place for canonical posts. I just don't think making it into some sort of "documentation" system is the right nomenclature to use nor approach to make a connection to.
 
having one site for all documentation seems like a poorly thought out goal
 
Yeah, but it is really popular with all the users who want to be hand fed
It seems that they love the idea.
@ReedCopsey - I agree though, it doesn't seem like there was much planning here. And it certainly didn't seem shared with the community either.
 
well, technically they haven't even started the private beta yet (6-8 weeks) so they aren't totally just dropping a bomb on us
@TravisJ I'm not sure it will be as popular with those users as you think
Most of those want an example specific to their situation, the kind that show up in "documentation" are usually too generic for them
otherwise they would, you know, just read the documentation
granted, we have documentation pretty good with MSDN
It may be more beneficial to other communities
 
9:55 PM
@BradleyDotNET - Sure they are though. They didn't really vet that the problem needed solving, or even narrowing down what the core problem was. They just handed out a random solution and said "here!"
 
That's pretty much how documentation examples go though
granted, its not what SO is right now (which that post admits)
Assuming the proposal goes through, I would even specifically say that if the requested topic wouldn't be too broad for "standard" SO it doesn't belong in the Documentation section
 
Yeh, but looking at a broken system and saying "Let's reproduce it!" isn't exactly making it better.
 
No doubt
 
In my opinion they should augment tag wikis with the example system, and strip everything else out
And give tag wikis more exposure
 
Depending on how "in depth" that is going to go, I don't think the tag system is robust enough
for example, we don't have a tag for TcpClient nor should we
 
10:03 PM
It is limiting by design.
 
but it seems reasonable to post an example of using that class to set up a server-client system
If the concept is "Examples are good, docs suck" of course
 
That is like pre-compiling everything just in case as opposed to compiling what was needed just in time.
 
Sure, but if we agree that my example example (uh oh) is a good thing to have, where would we put it?
 
Right, that is another aspect not covered. How does merging or organization work when it doesn't fit into the current structure of organization.
Q&A&D
yes. yes. no thank you
 
btw, I like this response: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/303929/1783619
And don't get me wrong, I am very hesitant about the proposed system
 
10:07 PM
Apparently SQLiteParameterCollection's Add methods decide to scan the list of parameters by name to see if you really meant to replace instead of add.
 
@BradleyDotNET - I think it is a good response as well.
 
So that's why this 500-parameter command was taking a while, it was O(n^2) to set up
 
at the same time, if we are good at making snippets of information findable, say, better than a lot of other existing systems, it makes sense to apply the same concept to documentation/examples
 
@MikeAsdf - I was just talking to someone about that the other day!
 
Makes me depserately wish for table-valued-parameters
 
10:08 PM
@MikeAsdf - They were trying to tell me that there was no performance hit from only using AddOrReplace in EF.
Anyway, sorry you got hit with the implicit OrReplace for no reason
 
Apparently the integer-based [] parameter setter avoids the scan. I'm setting up a workaround command wrapper to use that with my own dictionary.
 
@BradleyDotNET - I just don't find the core problem an actual problem. Why should SO suddenly become the outsourced place for project documentation? I think we need a system that can prepare, arrange, and reward canonical posts. However, I just don't think that the proposal addresses that even if it someone provides a way for canonical examples.
 
@TravisJ Because people suck at reading actual documentation?
Hard for me to say since I'm used to handling the real stuff
 
Yes lol, they definitely do
 
And in the best case, this system eliminates that and gives us a place to say "go look at this thing you can actually understand" when people ask too broad/common duplicate questions
I don't really want to imagine the worst case...
 
10:12 PM
*(the [] setter and Insert(index, parameter) avoid the scan)
 
@BradleyDotNET - Well that makes the assumption that questions can be closed as "already documented" or something
 
That would be a good extension to the duplicate reason, potentially
 
@MikeAsdf - Nice find :)
@BradleyDotNET - I agree
@BradleyDotNET - One other aspect that SO suffers from is search. ElasticSearch is not really as powerful as the major search engines.
 
yeah
I still use google/bing instead of SO
supposedly its supposed to get better
6-8 weeks I guess
 
Been almost 6-8 years though :P
I like tag wikis is the thing.
I wish they weren't considered like 10th rate citizens.
Replace the tag wiki with a section for canonical examples and place this "documentation" system in there for the tag wiki
Shrink the rep by 1/10th
 
10:16 PM
Perhaps if they were a bit more useful they wouldn't be. I'm just not sure that categorization tags are granular enough for storing examples
can you imagine the list for C#?
 
Yeah, it would be immense. Here is the other amusing part. You saw their example of Dictionary<> right? Where would that fit. Most questions of that nature are tagged
 
exactly
hence, my lack of support for doing this under tags (wikis)
 
Where else would it go though, that is where it would have to go. In c#. There would just need to be a set of voted examples with a search.
This seems like how they envision it. You go to an umbrella and then drill down until you find an example that fits your needs.
 
Being not as optimistic as them, I'm assuming I google TcpClient and its the second result
 
However, if implementing something that needs an example, a problem was probably already encountered that SO has a solution for.
 
10:20 PM
right behind the MSDN one
Most questions that would be solved by a documentation-level example are probably too broad though
 
@BradleyDotNET - You mean similar to the codeproject one?
 
sure, but more SO quality-y
"Explain TcpClient" isn't really a good SO question
but could be good documentation.
 
But that is basically what is being suggested.
Why not just simply remove the too broad closing reason then?
 
I think that is sort of whats being suggested. We don't start taking questions like that, but the answers to such questions have a home
I don't think the code-project article would make it on SO
its almost code-only
which makes me sad :(
Right or wrong, there are a lot of complaints currently about us turning away (potentially) useful content like "Explain TcpClient" because it doesn't match our rules
 
gah, mono's SQLite code is still doing O(n^2) shit elsewhere, it seems. My profiling pointed me at the source code that shows that when it's mapping the parameters to the paramNames from the command string, it's doing a scan over its private paramNames collection.
 
10:24 PM
I do think this feature is an attempt to address those complaints
 
Dictionary<T,E>
How to iterate (1225 examples)
foreach()
for()
select()
etc
 
lol
no doubt curating such a thing is going to be a chore
 
Yeah, and the more time spent on Documentation, the less time spent Answering
 
that is true as well
 
To me, the recent movements made just kind of demonstrate how instrumental Atwood was to the process and how hard it has been to reproduce his level of success since he left both in the inventive process and in the execution of features.
 
10:29 PM
can't comment on that one
 
I thought he was doing an awesome job in the actual creation of the software. He also inspired some strong talent that left when he did (Sam Saffron)
 
I think it will be interesting to see where this goes
My prediction: The way of SO TV
The response is overwhelmingly cautious on Meta
 

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