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7:02 PM
@CharlieBrown I can recognise a certain degree of the 'cloud' mentality that wasn't there before. So in other words, particular machines aren't important; provisioning is elastic by default and creating more instances should be easy and not dependent on specific environment configurations, that kind of thing
Services just come up when you need them and their design and the architecture they live in should make that easy
 
I think its advocating more toward small services and composition rather than monolithic services.
"Finance API" vs "Billing Api, Invoice Api, Ledger Api, Customer Api"
Split functions into discrete services and compose larger services from a set of smaller ones
 
@CharlieBrown isn't that more microservices?
 
yes, thats what were talking about
 
old school SOA would have a service that does everything
 
@Pheonixblade9 that's the impression I get in hindsight. I've never interpreted it like that though
I mean, I get what you're saying that people have done it
I just don't think that undoing that mistake warrants a new name
 
7:08 PM
Your right, it does serve as a nice reminder though
 
I have an interview as an automation engineer, and will be working primarily with automation testing and using c#. I've been working with c# for about 5 months, does anyone have some recommendations on what to learn on using C# in a corporate environment, design patterns, etc.
I'm currently following this to prep myself.
 
of course, I forget. SOAP supports RPC-style communication
 
automation testing... well, good luck with that, i mean, i love QA's, i just won't take that job though
 
@tweray I'm only 21, and I just really want this job to get some solid experience. I just got out an internship at Microsoft.
I'm incredibly nervous for the white board interview.
 
@ton.yeung at most a single bounded context?
 
7:15 PM
@Royalgambino well, white board coding should be your least concern, since you are going to talk with real person. the worst thing i hate in interviews are those stupid questions
 
@tweray Do you have any examples of questions you were asked?
 
well, google it
they can list like 1 million of them
 
Oh jesus
 
@ton.yeung I'm on my second reading of the blue book
I think I'm gonna need a few more
 
@ton.yeung the biggest problem of DDD is that, you have to persuade your boss and business team to obey
 
7:19 PM
Here is the Job Description @ton.yeung @tweray
* Contribute to the technical direction and architectural vision of the test automation framework
* Design and implement product test cases
* Triage test failures and root cause them to identify the source of the failure
* Advance and promote software engineering best practices and processes.
* Continuously assess and evolve technology and core framework components
* Load balance with engineering cross-functional groups to achieve organizational objectives.
 
"Requirement: detect if the mobile app user is geographically within particular provinces in Canada and use a default of imperial system instead of the metric system (the Canada iOS default)”
 
@ton.yeung I see what @tweray is saying, I suppose. It's so heavy on terminology that nobody will know what you're talking about unless they've also read it
 
On a scale of asione to asinine how dumb is that?
 
In terms of, we should run this meeting differently so that we can [x]
 
We have a settings panel for the 0.001% that care
 
7:20 PM
People have their ways of doing things that doesn't arrive at a viable domain model. How do you explain why they should be doing it differently?
I know that, but can you answer the question?
 
It's so confusing, Which core frameworks? Advance and promote what best practice? What defines a best practice?
 
In this case, business analysts.
 
@ton.yeung yes, it suggest a middle way vocabulary between the business team and tech team, problem is, it's easy to persuade tech side to compromise, but the business side really depends
 
Ours do exactly what the book explicitly points out as a really bad way to work.
They meet the client, they dump design documents, and don't solicit feedback
 
@ton.yeung for any development jobs or qa related jobs you've had, did they do training on their software or practices they do before letting you work?
 
7:25 PM
I'd be happy with them being the ones who really know how to do it, and can coach me on it
That's where I see a BA's role
 
@ton.yeung well, that starts to be the problem, you always have tech geeks who cannot or don't want to adapt to business side, so is the other side. my usual tend is, talk with tech side, then talk with business side, as long as you understand both of their language, it is fine
 
Mediate in the meeting between client and developer, get them back on track when they need it, that kind of thing, a facilitator
 
universal DDD sounds too costy for me. but maybe that's just my company
 
@ton.yeung I mean in those detailed modelling discussions. Eventually doing DDD well makes BAs redundant, but most of us are not in that world
project managers understand spreadsheets and shouting
I know I'm not a particularly good communicator, that's why I want the help
A DDD coach at my back, basically.
I'm prepared to learn, but I wouldn't stake a large part of a product on it
 
i just thought the concept of DDD is way too Ideologic, where they want everybody to adapt it, which is way over the requirement. the fact is, you only need several ppl who's good at it to do the communication, while rest of the ppl can live in their own homefield comfortably
 
7:30 PM
Also, even getting a client or contact to think clearly enough to answer your questions correctly can feel hostile to them. Never mind getting a different answer every time you speak to them
@tweray sorry, I think that's totally wrong. I work in an environment that works to that principle and it's completely dysfunctional
 
Teams are harder than writing software.
 
@TomW well, usually that means the one supposed to do the communication job didn't do the work well, either doesn't have enough technology knowledge, or don't adapt to business decision enough
and that's why i believe we should pay PM's more, but fire all those who don't qualifies
 
Maybe that's why silicon valley companies tend to hire upper-middle-class white males under 25. The company nucleates around that person, by and large, and then the impedance mismatch between anyone different to that is just too great
For anyone who's a less than outstanding communicator
@ton.yeung nope. Excerpts from both, I think
They don't sound promising
 
In most large companies, the lowest skilled manager is payed the same as the highest skilled developer
 
Although I recognise both titles as being a big deal in their field
Both sound like managerese
 
7:36 PM
^ unfair to talk since you are a business school graduate.
but yes, DDD deserves some reading, but it's not for everyone, only for the ones who really want to put their career into it
 
I'll put them on my list, but I won't hold my breath
 
Hello everyone, Can someone tell me how can I chat with specific user?
 
a lot concept is really nice to learn, i just won't take it as bible though
 
@AhmerAliAhsan you can invite him/her to a separate chat, assuming he/she is willing to join
but still, it's public, anybody else can join that room
 
7:39 PM
@TomW Ew, manager speak. I hate money.
;)
 
which books @ton.yeung
 
Thanks @Jeremy & @tweray
 
13 mins ago, by ton.yeung
i don't know what to tell you other than reading "seven habits of highly effective people" and "how to win friends and influence people"
 
classics, but not everyone needs em. some people learn those skills as they grow up
 
Pet hate:
"We're getting some push-back on..."
What you mean is you've been told that something you've said didn't make sense, and you don't understand
Yes, because teams refuse to do things for amusement. Not because what they've been asked for isn't right, that's inconceivable. They're 'pushing back'
 
7:55 PM
@ton.yeung then we got some agreement here :)
 
how to talk dirty and influence people, now that should be required :)
 
most authors for DDD are always like "THIS IS THE DAMN SKILL THAT EVERYONE NEED TO LEARN, GOD DAMMIT JUST BUY MY BOOK"
 
@tweray the editors made them add the first part of that sentence ;)
 
@ton.yeung well, i'm pretty sure there are plenty of them amazon.com/Domain-Driven-Design-Tackling-Complexity-Software/dp/…
 
@ton.yeung maybe I have a drastic miscalculation of scale, and am actually a pretty good communicator, I just get annoyed that I can't immediately fix everything
I can see what's wrong, it's obvious. All the person responsible needs is a nudge.
 
7:57 PM
also there are some training camps trying to drag whole teams to learn
 
@TomW yes, a million times. As an engineer at heart its difficult to stand by and not be able to fix something right now
 
Guys how can i have a Program that Notifi me whenever an RSS is updated ?
 
@tweray ISIL/ISIS?
 
@Pedram That is way too broad
 
@BradleyDotNET :D i mean , like i can have an RSS reader that Read whenever i click a button ! but how can i have a program to Check and Read the RSS As soon as a new RSS arrive ?
 
8:00 PM
@CharlieBrown well, differences is that for these camps you need to pay like several thousand $
 
Every time I get an email from CollabNet advertising their expensive and complicated agile management framework, I die a little inside.
 
@ton.yeung each person
for like 3 days classes
 
@Pedram I believe that works off of polling
 
@BradleyDotNET aha ... something like Long Polling i read before ?
u write some Async class and write the methods with await "Somethinghere" ?
 
@ton.yeung well, if I'm a good communicator, I should be able to easily explain to people what they need to do to fix it, right? Especially as it's obvious
 
8:03 PM
not async class async function i guess
 
F4z
I've got a CollectionView binded to a listbox. Items in the listbox are fileextensions listed from the HKEY Classes Root. As you may know there are entries with a '.' (e.g. .txt, .vba, .rar etc) and there are entries without a '.', does anyone know how I can filter only the items with a '.' at the start? any ideas would be appreciated
 
thats not necessarlly long polling
and I'm guessing long polling is wrong here
 
@Pedram - Classes cannot be "async". Only their methods.
 
@TravisJ yes i just said that by mistake , but well i have no experience in this , except some example i saw before
 
Since you know how to read the feed, I would start by doing that on some sort of timer
simple polling
 
8:07 PM
 
@BradleyDotNET yes timer came to my mind , only that it wont make any ... i don't know ... bad performance or something in my program if i check for example once every 1 min ?
 
@Pedram then check every 5min
dont overthink it
 
@CharlieBrown lol Wanted it to be as fast as possible :D
 
@ton.yeung hmm yeh i guess i can keep try more wait if i saw some problem , tnx
 
8:11 PM
@ton.yeung so that's what I mean by a drastic miscalculation of scale. The fact that the things I feel I can't do are large organisational changes that are never easy for anyone leads me to think we are talking about different levels of problem
 
The rate at which the RSS feed is updated determines the rate at which you need to check it. Combined with how much your service can handle without puking and how fresh you need the data to be
 
@CharlieBrown it's a Telegram Bot to Send RSS of a site in all ppl in a Group when the Site RSS is updated
 
@ton.yeung brings up a good point. How would you change big things, by only making little changes yourself.
Influence is involved, but not everything. Persistence, adapting, a bit more.
 
Inwardly screaming "You can see what's wrong! It's right there!"
Does not help.
 
Some other buzzwords from psych class as well
welcome to my life then
 
8:15 PM
Maybe I should scream it aloud.
 
@CharlieBrown at your work, or what?
 
I'll give you $5 to ask the guy about his 4th of july weekend
 
Working at companies where the solution (to me) is so obvious its the same as breathing air, and yet, everyone else can not see it, or if they do, refuse to change it
 
visual studio is crashing with a memory error when I'm trying to analyze memory usage of a process dump.
anyone know of any non-VS tools to analyze dmp files?
 
8:28 PM
@TomW - Have you tried outwardly screaming that ? :P
Just start a chant of wtf in the similar tone, frequency, and intensity as they chant USA at a soccer match :)
Ever write something and have it come out like 10 times better than you expected?
I wrote a simple test algorithm a few weeks ago and then figured I would wait to do the concrete aspect of it. When I adapted the test algorithm in it worked freaking perfect first shot. Kind of expected to do more work on it.
 
8:44 PM
I'm the same with ideas I have sometimes. It's too much hassle to setup a VS project (properly) just for a prototype.
 
Off-topic question incase anyone has some experience: What's a good location for storing log (txt) files for an ASP.NET app? I've considered App_Data, but it seems to fight against you doing that since web deploy wont create the folder and locks out the app pool from writing to it.
 
@WillEddins - just create the file somewhere after you deploy and make sure that its permissions are setup to allow your application to write read execute for it.
You could even add its own folder.
 
Outside of the ASP.NET app folder though?
Web deploy resets all the folder permissions every deploy
 
I am sure you can configure it to change the permissions
It also depends on where you are deploying to
 
So i'm not sure if it's "best practice" to fight it with a wpp.targets or just log outside the folder
 
8:53 PM
@WillEddins usually loggers will create a "log" folder
 
fight? Ever tried to store images that your application creates in folders?
 
lol it's the same issue
 
Single text files are no different if not rather easier, and storing images in files is "best practice".
It is also fairly common.
Where are you deploying your solution to?
 
We've got 3 different production servers, WinServer2008R2
we've got full control over them all
 
Oh they are your own servers? Yeah that should be really simple.
Just deploy using your normal technique and manually configure the folder.
 
8:55 PM
Well i dont want to manually configure it because web deploy will "unconfigure" it if it's inside the deploy directory
 
It will be easier than trying to figure out how to modify the xml or wherever the deploy settings reside so that it works with one click. Although I am sure there are articles out there on how to do the delpoy mod
You are worried about future deploys overwriting the permissions?
 
yeah
 
Hm, I wonder if it would if it didn't know about it. It is a valid concern though.
 
It definitely does
 
You should look up what the xml properties you need to modify in your deploy are
 
8:58 PM
Yeah looks like i need to figure out a good wpp.targets file to use on all ASP.NET projects that can create the App_Data folder automatically and set the proper permissions... or just disable the AclProvider stuff and set the permissions manually
No, only because we mostly develop lots of small sites across lots of clients and usually dont deploy that often
 
Does anyone have a good tutorial for Manifest files-- specifically Fusion Manifest files? Google is not being helpful
 
So each project tends to just have it's own publish profiles
 
If I am stepping through a debugger, does anyone know how I can look at an evaluated value from a Func?
var value = Func<Foo,int> f => f * something;
if( value(bar) ) continue;
I have a situation like that and I am not sure how to see what value(bar) is evaluating to.
 
@TravisJ Are you using visual studio?
 
yeah
 
9:01 PM
Put value(bar) in the Immediate Window? although it'll evaluate it a second time
 
bottom left hand corner: tab autos?
 
I use them on occasion when I am constantly using large ( b + ( a * ( x - y ) ) ) type of math expressions
So that I can just call to that instead of having it muck up my code all over the place
Everything I try just seems to show the value of the Func though =/ Which is its definition but not its evaluation.
Ah well, I will just use a local variable temporarily.
 
How to register a COM object through a manifest as to use it in a Universal app?
 
well that was my minified version :P
if( TimeUsed + TimeEstimate(currentItem) > TimeRestriction) continue;
is how it reads at the moment. This is for making sure that someone doesn't end up with more than 9 hours of stuff.
 
So I am writing code for a report, a report in which the user can select which columns to display. what is the best practice? Should I bring all the data to the ui and hide show columns based on the ui or should i bring only the columns that user asked for? Obviously i will be implementing paging, and the number of columns will go from 8 to 20 columns
 
9:27 PM
@Obviously You can pass the fields in as parameters?
I would tell your api/method/function what to return
Your UI can drive that
You wouldn't return all fields then optionally not show x number of them
 
it all depends IMO, if it's a ton of data and it's going to eat up a ton of ram, yeah, load it as you need it, if it's not much, and it'll increase the responsiveness of the application, go ahead and load it all
BAM BAM BAM
BAM MOAR BEER
BAM BAM BAM
nobody likes me
 
9:42 PM
aww... @SteveG ... I'm sure your mom does!
 
no she hates me
 
At least Kendall's mom does
 
thats not saying much, she likes anything with a D
 
Ouch, low blow.
 
lmao
i thought it was witty
i'm going to thank myself for deleting that tomorrow
 
9:53 PM
 
Question... If I've got something structured like:
 
@Pedram who is that
 
But, shouldn't it grab all of those items.
 
@SteveG ryde or dye
 
haha
 
9:58 PM
@SteveG Maker of Steam bro :D Gamers Call of Gaben XD
 

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