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5:00 PM
@Pheonixblade9 i'm not sure i agree with this, i'm not as familiar with economics as you, but if a companys expenses rise, because of high wages, won't they need to increase revenue to offset the expense loss?
 
@shakthi - Hanselman and Skeet.
 
scott guthrie, scott hanselman... uhh
@SteveG yes, but wages are not 100% of the cost of doing business
 
@Pheonixblade9 yeah, there was a decent degree of boosterism among him and his ilk, which isn't a bad thing. Possibly somewhat self-serving, but also sort of virtuous and lacking these days
 
I follow skeet, Hanselman i should !
thanks spencer and phoenix
 
if wages are 20% of the cost of a burger, and wages double, the real cost of a burger only rises 20%
 
5:01 PM
Tycoons used to build hospitals and orphanages to show what a great tycoon they were
 
ah i didn't think about that
 
Hanselman is a fantastic writer and covers a lot of topics.
 
@TomW Banana Republics and Rubber Republics, for example
 
Well yes, that was kind of erm
Kind of erm. Yep.
 
Tor
I can't remember the name of the phenomenon, but when studying econ in college. When taxes are raised for a company, only partial increases get applied to the raise.
 
5:02 PM
back with the old name
 
Tor
So if taxes raise 5%, only a portion is applied to taxes, consumers eat some, but not all. Company eats some as well.
 
@Tor the fact is, anything that cuts into profits will make businesses kick and scream and bitch about how unfair their lot in life is, but they aren't going to magically pack up shop when there is a market to sell to
 
^ that.
 
Tor
@Pheonixblade9, yeah just speaking only to how it affects final price.
 
we have a $15 minimum wage here in Seatac (where Seattle Tacoma International Airport is) and we're going to have a $15 minimum wage citywide by 2017 or 2018
 
5:04 PM
Businesses aren't people. They can adapt to changing circumstances despite howling that they can't, and it's time they stopped getting their way at the expense of people who don't have any other options
 
@SpencerRuport @Pheonixblade9 or are they? A developer that can write basic console apps is making more than someone would can install hvac systems... that doesn't seem right to me. hvac installers are underpaid then? then you would eventually get to everyone is underpaid
 
you think McDonalds is just going to pack up and leave Seattle? no, they'll raise their prices slightly, maybe increase franchising costs slightly, and move on with life
@NETscape most people ARE underpaid. Real wages (buying power) have been stagnant since 1970
 
@NETscape - I think HVAC installers are underpaid.
 
I think all skilled labor is. ^
 
5:06 PM
in 1970, productivity became detached from compensation
where do you think that money went to?
 
okay, so if all these people protesting $7.50 an hour min wages at mcdonalds now want $18/hr, and we give them $18/hr, everyones wages would probably go up in some way, and then those same $18/hr people will still bitch they aren't as rich as everyone else.
 
shareholders and CEOs
 
The people who pay, think only business. they dont understand complications or learning curves involved in any tech.
 
@NETscape you're right, prices would rise slightly
but you're not raising the entire playing field, only the bottom
 
Tor
I don't know the context of that graph, but is productivity solely a function of labor?
 
5:07 PM
@Tor productivity is $'s produced in that case
 
@NETscape - Minimum wage hikes are a bit of a different discussion. Unskilled labor is always going to be difficult to talk about because the fact is they have no leverage.
 
but then everyone that is making $7.50, now makes $18... everyone that was making $18 is now underpaid
 
@NETscape yep
 
@NETscape - I would argue that if skilled labor paid better you'd see a drop in unskilled laborers because the incentive to educate yourself, by whatever means you can, becomes much higher.
 
so then you have to properly compensate the $18... moving them up, and chain reaction, everyone moves up
 
5:08 PM
guess what that means? the average worker has more leverage and if their job is shit they can say "well I can go work at <grocery store> and make just as much as here"
 
Right now unskilled laborers look at people with college degrees and think "Why would I spend all that money and effort to make just barely more than I do now? My life won't improve that much."
 
the fact is, there is still a need for unskilled labor out there and people shouldn't be forced to be 2nd class citizens for working at those jobs
 
.... then after everyone gets "properly compensated" there would be no different if you dropped everyone's hourly wage by 9 dollars an hour, assuming market prices would go down too.
 
we're a long ways out from having robot janitors and such
 
ok, I am looking for job overseas. they say swiz is cool. US has lots of tax and deductions. UK is good too. I am thinking about one of these three
 
5:10 PM
@NETscape that's a good point - if everyone worked for free, would you expect that hamburger to be free?
 
@SpencerRuport: and a very sad thing is that you have to pay so much for an education in the US.
 
Yep. It's a huge risk.
 
@Pheonixblade9 yeah. that's true. i love labor jobs. keeps the world going round and sometimes i wish i could do a rotating shift working in labor industry
 
NO i expect mcdonalds to eat the profits, and then pay off / bribe politicians (legally)
 
Until it has a better guarantee of a salary that makes the cost of education easy to pay off a lot of people are going to opt not do it.
 
5:11 PM
I went to a 4 year public university, 2nd cheapest in my state, and worked since I was 15 to save up for it, worked full time and took classes in the summer, worked part time during the year (as a research assistant) and I STILL graduated with about $45k in debt
 
@Pheonixblade9 no such thing as free. everyone should be compensated for their time, and their capabilities
 
@SpencerRuport I don't think everyone needs a 4 year degree. Trades shouldn't be so discouraged. A good mechanic or machinist can make just as much as an engineer
 
Github was hacked attacked?
 
@juanvan no, baidu's JS snippet was changed to DDoS Github. Baidu is the Chinese version of Google Analytics
 
ahh
 
5:13 PM
msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh924831(v=vs.110).aspx Can someone clarify the ReceiveTimeout? Should it be set on the service or on the client?
 
@Pheonixblade9 i think shady, business minded, entrepreneurs/leaders are the reason to blame.
 
@NETscape I'll never stop linking it... michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/…
 
basic supply and demand
 
@KendallFrey
 
blah, I gotta get to work
 
5:14 PM
>On the client side:
ReceiveTimeout – is not used
 
ReceiveTimeout – used by the Service Framework Layer to initialize the session-idle timeout which controls how long a session can be idle before timing out.
 
ok, but then why does our code set it on the client and not the service? Just pure derp?
 
so probably service ?
 
Possibly.
@KendallFrey test to be sure I suppose
 
i bought 10 pairs of briefs, 6 white tshirts, and 9 pairs of socks yesterday. it was $125 dollars after $26 in savings. why do they get away with that? because people need to buy those items.
 
5:15 PM
or inspect the code in reference source
 
and why is it under a section called Client-side Timeouts in the doc?
also a derp?
 
More derp
 
sigh
 
@NETscape get away with what?
 
so much derp
 
5:16 PM
@NETscape I pay $6-8/pair of socks because I only wear wool socks, haha
 
I rarely wear socks
 
that explains a lot
 
oh trust me there's a lot more that could be explained
 
@TomW with charge $38 for 5 Hanes branded briefs
 
5:17 PM
That doesn't sound unreasonable to me
 
meh, it's worth it to spend more on clothing, the expensive stuff lasts a lot longer
 
I'm lazy, I wear a toga
 
you can go to walmart and buy 5 briefs for $18, same brand. probably cotton/synthetic mix
9 pairs of socks for 35 dollars? the reason people still go barefoot in this world is because it would cost too much to buy socks to ship to those parts of the world...
 
or they work from home
 
but then you tell these companies... oh, i'm wanting to buy in bulk to send to children in need and they will give you price to produce, which is probably $.50 a sock
 
5:22 PM
@NETscape you can't begrudge a company its profit - there would be no incentive to produce at all if there wasn't a profit
 
To pay me to make t-shirts you'd probably get about one for your $125. Now that's due to my utter incompetence with anything manual; were I to get experienced you might get two t-shirts.
 
Whoop! 1024 missed messages! Hello guys.
 
okay, but then you have protests because of the 1%... well they got that way because "you can't begrudge a company for its profit."
 
As they're probably made by a lady in Bangladesh, you probably don't need to pay as much as that to cover her cost of living. But I am definitely prepared to pay whatever it costs for that lady to be able to live in a decent home, feed her kids, send them to school and take them to the doctor.
 
@NETscape actually, the main problems with the economy as-is today is the lack of disconnect between gov't and corporations. The government is not able to properly regulate corporations, because the gov't and the corporations are one in the same these days
 
5:26 PM
There are companies that claim to do that, but they mysteriously also seem to charge 5x the price for whatever they make, which does not seem right to me
 
@TomW distribution is surprisingly expensive
 
^ that (atleast in norway)
 
@Pheonixblade9 is that why amazon prime is free shipping?
 
@NETscape amazon prime builds the shipping into the price
 
so i log out of my account, the prices are the same
 
5:27 PM
@Pheonixblade9 which precisely proves my point, I think. Paying someone a living wage in Bangladesh incurs exactly the same distribution costs as paying someone to work in a sweatshop in Bangladesh
 
:)
 
@TomW Re: F# Type Providers - there are two types of them, and one is directly usable from C# code, the other not - can get into details if you need/want, but it's not a clear answer ;)
 
@TomW this
 
The right solution to that problem is for the government of Bangladesh to ban sweatshops, and enforce the ban
 
@TomW they'll never do it as long as it is profitable for the country
 
5:30 PM
Obviously that won't work, because western labels will just buy elsewhere, somewhere that allows them to do what they like
 
or unless there is incredible international pressure
 
Or offer the goverment some bribes
to have them look the other way
 
@Pheonixblade9 I wish I followed this more closely. I thought chinese hackers used it to redirect people to the chinese version of the NYT, not to (intentionally, anyway) DDoS github...
 
the reason being that the great firewall would never block github entirely because of potential damage to china's economy
 
5:35 PM
According to this link, i think it should be on server. DeRp
 
@ReedCopsey Thanks. I think I remember now, one being an 'erasing' type provider that doesn't work, and another one being...something else, that does?
 
yes - generative type providers work fine
erasing type providers actually don't make real types - the code when you use them is "erased" to the underlying, provided code
so there's nothing there to use from a separate assembly
 
Hey @ReedCopsey
You accept donations or anything?
 
for what?
 
well over the last few months since I started this WPF project, ive been helped directly, or indirectly by you via your actual responses / blogs, or whatever
and your help has gone along way
 
5:48 PM
donate by contributing
 
wanted to know if donation was possible
 
ahh, well, if you feel like doing something, either contribute
 
or direct funds to me and i'll distribute appropriately ;)
 
lol
I bet
 
or, if you really want to do something nice financially, please donate to fsharp.nationbuilder.com/donate (or, if that's not your bag, afrpw.org/donate is my favorite other charity) ;)
 
5:49 PM
tbh, employers should be donating to our educators
 
lol I can hardly count on them to replace a PC when its dying
 
@NETscape That's basically what happens when you donate to your alma mater, right?
 
muhahaha, now I know Reed is a junior ~makes plans to inappropriately call Reed 'Jr.' in the future~
 
@NETscape I will start donating to my alumni fund when I am done paying tuition via loans :P
 
My university abolished my department, so they can suck my dick
 
5:55 PM
@ReedCopsey I donate to the ACLU and WikiMedia typically - what do you like about the afrpw?
 
^ Ill be dead first... so... looks like they get no donations
 
@Pheonixblade9 Well, my wife and I have actually done a lot of work with them over the years - but I really like their mission, and they're incredibly effective, both in terms of managing their mission, but also in terms of directly using funds in the field (ie: 95% of funds go directly into programs, where most charities are <80%)
 
@ReedCopsey what kind of stuff have you done? trips over there?
 
No - more US based support - setting up some of their tech infrastructure (me), working on marketing and outreach (my wife), etc
we tried to go visit last time we were in Africa, but the weather kind of made it not work last minute :(
(since their main base of operations isn't exactly easy to reach ;) )
 
do you watch house of cards... is your wife Claire?
 
5:58 PM
@NETscape don't watch it
always thought it looked good, but don't have enough time to watch much tv ;)
 
@ReedCopsey - Get the ACLU to start accepting bitcoin!
Wikipedia does.
 
@SpencerRuport I don't have anything to do with the ACLU ;)
or bitcoin, for that matter
 
Oh I misunderstood the conversation haha.
 
ugh, billing provider test environment, down
internal internet to download stuff, down
 
nah, I was saying to donate to either F# Software Foundation or African People and Wildlife (though, I also occasionally donate to the Mountain Gorilla Veterinary Project, too :) )
 
6:02 PM
@ReedCopsey cool :)
 
i am stuck with nothing to do
 
@SpencerRuport I suspect the ACLU is still worried about Bitcoin's image
 
i donate to this wild life sos place in africa, they rescue elephants and stuff
 
I accept donations to the "Help Mark's Kids Foundation" Full disclosure, I have no kids
 
being abusedddd
@MarkW lmfao
 
@SteveG Which one?
 
!!google wildlifesos
 
@Pheonixblade9 - More so than VISA/HSBC/Chase? :P
 
@SteveG most of those are in India...?
 
6:07 PM
@SpencerRuport ACLU is under fire by a lot more people than the big banks. They need to be very accountable for where their money comes from
 
That's what I meant. They're willing to accept payment from banking/financial institutions like VISA, HSBC and Chase all which have violated the civil liberties not only of the American people but people all over the world.
 
@SteveG Just curious which org it is - I've done a fair amount of research on many of them, and am familiar with most (mostly through the work done with Laly @ afrpw)
 
How do I handle a WCF session idle timeout? I want to tear down my session when it happens.
this is on the service
 
@KendallFrey isn't there an onDestruct you can override?
 
override on what?
 
6:17 PM
you'd have to have your own session class that you override if you wanna manage it manually right?
 
well, we have a session, but it's in no way related to WCF
 
nods
I'm honestly not sure, was just throwing out an idea
 
it needs to get torn down whenever the WCF session is
wait, WCF session is a thing, right?
 
@KendallFrey not really, at least not necessarily, but it depends a bit on how you're hosting
 
self-hosted
 
6:22 PM
are you setup persession?
 
essentially we need to assume that a client has crashed or something if no message comes from it in a certain amount of time
 
for InstanceContextMode ?
 
dunno what that means
 
oh right
let me see...
WCF sucks
I have more experience with WCF than HTTP, but I know HTTP way better.
 
6:24 PM
@KendallFrey DING DING DING
 
@ReedCopsey single instance
 
then there is no such thing as a WCF session, really
 
Did I mention I hate WCF?
 
Yessss yesss now let the hate flow through you!
 
I suppose InstanceContextMode can't simply be changed and it will just work?
yep, it asploded
And ReliableSession won't be any different, right?
 
6:34 PM
@ReedCopsey oh, it is india, sorry, misspoke
 
ahh, okay
@KendallFrey WCF is pretty awesome if it's self hosted, but it's complicated as all hell to get right
 
perhaps a stupid question, but if I enable AutoMigrations in EF (for my WPF app), shouldn't it automagically add the columns to my db if I add new properties to my entities?
 
need to run migrations after you update the code-first parts
 
damnit, that's not what I thought would happen :D
 
Is it possible to write a semantically correct HTML table with re-sizable columns?
For example, where would I put the draggable target element? Is it another TH/TD tag or is it a left/right aligned DIV?
 
6:50 PM
yay beer!
 
@BenjaminDiele how do you know what I've just been doing? :P
 
Because I've gotten myself one as well. Maredsous tonight!
also, why the hell does clickonce include older versions in my installer files?
right now I have 30 versions in 1 installer
 
7:18 PM
I just realized - I have the office to myself, I could totally crank some tunes! whooo!
too bad I have shitty Macbook speakers and my earbuds are way better, lol
 
F12 does not navigate to on laptop, annoying
 
@Pheonixblade9 even better, you can fart all you want!
 
why write if(!blnSuccess) instead of writing the check properly
 
and nobody will judge you!
 
give those cubicals some second hand rap
there a way to search TFS for a <connectionString> entry in every project/solution
 
7:36 PM
I am trying to get all records from PriceLayers and join PriceLayerBindings (if found), why am I still receiving only intersection for both tables?
 List<PriceLayerTemplate> priceLayers = (from pl in dt.PriceLayers
                                                    join plpb in dt.PriceLayerProductBindings on pl.Id equals plpb.PriceLayerId
                                                    into joined from plpb in joined.DefaultIfEmpty()
                                                    where plpb.ProductId == productId
                                                    select new PriceLayerTemplate
                                                    {
 
Anyone here have any experience with MigrateDatabaseToLatestVersion It should create the database when it's not there, but I just get an exception that it can't create it. If I use the default constructor in my DbContext, the db gets created just fine
 
@Marek it only where plpb.ProductId == productId
 
@juanvan You propose to omit the into joined part? I have had this query before and returned the same output.
 
just the where clause line and see what results you get
 
@juanvan Results are the same :/
What I am trying to do is simple left join
 
7:47 PM
ahhh if only navigation properties were used / fks set up :p
 
@Marek 'from pl in dt.PriceLayers join plpb in dt.PriceLayerProductBindings on pl.Id equals plpb.PriceLayerId into plpbs from plpb in plpbs.DefaultIfEmpty()'
 
@juanvan Aha! I have found what is wrong. When I use your query it returns all results even those, who are not part of intersection (correct) when I add where plpb.ProductId == productId clause it returns just the intersection. Is it possible to filter the plpbs ?
 
sure you should be able to edit (from plpb in plpbs.DefaultIfEmpty()) to from plpb in plpbs.ProductId == productId
anyone use Microsoft Great Plains accounting software?
 
8:03 PM
@juanvan Unfortunately, the IntelliSense does not yield ProductId on plpbs :/
 
what objects are in plpbs?
 
From query join plpb in dt.PriceLayerProductBindings on pl.Id equals plpb.PriceLayerId into plpbs from plpb in plpbs.DefaultIfEmpty() I suppose they contain left join for both tables?
 
ya that is a left join - outer would be != inner is ==
 
@juanvan Somehow I am unable to get Intellisense for attributes of plpb from plpbs haha.
 
ya the into should have projected (kinda unsure)
 
8:09 PM
Has anyone here ever tried generating characterization tests automatically?
 
@Marek try group instead of join?
 
8:25 PM
@juanvan Have not used group yet, this task appears very trivial, I need to crack it.
 
8:35 PM
You are close - if plpbs has the data you want - get that query result and put it to the next linq statement
 
@Sippy waddup?
 
Hi Guys, I'm trying to process a text file, I'm matching some strings to a RegEx. I call a method to process the string, but how can I continue reading the file without having to wait for the processing method to complete. I want to keep queuing up the strings for processing or something like that. Is that possible?
or maybe call a method that dispatches them to a queue for processing
 
a simple asynchronous producer / consumer example is probably something you will probably want to look at
there are literally thousands of ways to accomplish that
 
@erotavlas you want to use regex asynchronously?
 
In computing, the producer–consumer problem (also known as the bounded-buffer problem) is a classic example of a multi-process synchronization problem. The problem describes two processes, the producer and the consumer, who share a common, fixed-size buffer used as a queue. The producer's job is to generate a piece of data, put it into the buffer and start again. At the same time, the consumer is consuming the data (i.e., removing it from the buffer) one piece at a time. The problem is to make sure that the producer won't try to add data into the buffer if it's full and that the consumer won't...
 
8:44 PM
@RoelvanUden thanks I beat you to it, I was just looking at producer consumer data flow pattern for .net 4.5
@KendallFrey thousands? that's overwhelming
 
it's almost happy hour, you all better be fucking happy.
 
@erotavlas misping
 
mandatory happiness. GO!
 
@KendallFrey :) yup
 
@KendallFrey are you happy yet
 
8:47 PM
@erotavlas its not really overwhelming, its just not a unique problem... it crops up all over with many many variations on the expected behavior of the consumer producer pattern
 
@erotavlas So why do you need to do this asynchronously? Are you fixing some known performance problem?
@SteveG happy for monday
 
@MarkW I understand, thank you for pointing out the name of this pattern, it was unknown to me
 
Angular must fix everything, this guy things you can do DataAccess from angular..
 
@erotavlas the larger pattern is async, producer-consumer is just a way of implementing an async system
 
@KendallFrey good :)
 
8:48 PM
@KendallFrey no performance problem yet, just my attempt to learn how to improve my code with something new
 
@erotavlas Well, the overhead of implementing async will likely make your code slower, not faster
 
async all the things
im being obnoxious, i know, i'll stop, just need this clock hand to go a little faster
 
async the Titanic
 
so it can sink and I can not care at the same time?
 
@KendallFrey what about pipelines?
 
8:52 PM
@erotavlas what about them?
 
@KendallFrey That picture hurts my eyes
its like seizure inducing
 
@KendallFrey for pipelines (like when used in the Lumia imaging sdk) are supposed to improve performance - they are also producer consumer type pattern aren't they
 
i don't know
I call myself a regex expert, and I don't see regex as being a use case for async programming.
string parsing and/or serialization, sure
 
@KendallFrey holy crap
 
whats the distinction between stirng parsing and regex lol
 
8:56 PM
@MarkW huge
 
orly?
 
you should use a parser for HTML, not a regex
 
maybe its how we are using the words
I think parsing is like turn a coma delimited list into a collection
and regex as finding something in particular (the most common use case in my experience anyway)
 
regex are a tool you can use in parsers
 
I would interpret HTML, not parse it
 
8:58 PM
@MarkW what does "interpret" mean?
 
like say... XML, I would interpret XML into a DOM
as opposed to say, parsing it to find a particular node
without loading a DOM
 
um, you mean parsing, right?
 
lol
evidently
 
you parse XML and create a DOM from the result
 
I guess I typically don't abstract regex the tool (markup, script, whatever you wanna call it) from the act of using it
probably shouldn't use regex as a verb
but I do :(
 
9:14 PM
anyway, thanks for your help today everyone
have a good night
 
9:49 PM
@BenjaminDiele damnit to hell, why did I have that same thought independently?
 
Anyone use visualstudio.com TFS?
 

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