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4:00 PM
cool
 
@Squiggle I cant tell if your picture is supposed to be a dude dressed up as one of those keychain trolls, or if youre less than PC
 
@MarkW I'd be surprised if you knew what/who it was :)
 
He appears to have vampire teeth
 
it's The Cat from Red Dwarf, at the end of the episode called "Backwards"
 
I had seen one or two of the red dwarf episodes
not in a long while though
 
4:03 PM
@Marek not really sure.
 
What's red dwarf about?
 
the precise scene is a bit crude, tbh
 
            TabControlMain.IsEnabled = false;
            TabControlMain.SelectedIndex = 0;
            //selection changed is raised
            UpdateLayout();
            //TabControlMain.IsEnabled = true;
If I uncomment the last line, it stops switching the tabs :/
 
which makes sense
oh
 
@SpencerRuport Slobs in spaaaaace. Very British comedy.
 
4:04 PM
@Sippy are you sharing the code for your installer?
 
AH okay. Very dry humor?
 
so if you call TabControlMain.SelectedIndex = 1; after IsEnabled= true, it won't switch?
 
Very British. Not so dry, fairly absurd.
 
@JABFreeware Huh?
 
It's a little annoying VS2013 doesn't support git over SSH.
 
4:05 PM
@Sippy thought you were having issues with an installer for a web project.
 
@JABFreeware I am, what did you mean by sharing the code?
 
            //TabControlMain.IsEnabled = false;
            //TabControlMain.SelectedIndex = 0;
            //UpdateLayout();
            TabControlMain.IsEnabled = true;
            TabControlMain.SelectedIndex = 1;
@NETscape with the following ode it wont swith, not even if I uncomment the first 3 lines.
 
I wouldn't usually bother writing installers, because there is a publish utility.
 
@NETscape it will swith only if isenabled = false before selectedindex is hanged.
 
But PM wants them ...
Even though they're all gonna be hosted on one server and one server alone.
I cri.
 
4:07 PM
I'm doing the same
so our customers who host on their systems can just "run the installer"
 
1
Q: Visual Studio Web Installer installing to local source control folder instead of inetpub?

SippyI'm using the VS2013 Installer extension to build a web service installer. The problem I'm having is that after installing this service, if I go to the inetpub folder, I find no reference to the service I just installed, and the service is evidently installed in the local source folder instead. ...

 
and... automated the SQL installation
:'(
 
ew
 
its disgusting
 
And also not ew cos if it works flawlessly, awesome
But when does anything ever go to plan
 
4:08 PM
yeah I am working on that part
 
@NETscape Why does the proposed IsEnabled property helped to switch the tabs? Is it because I have loaders to comboboxes on SelectionChanged ?
 
I tried to convince them to just buy one of the installers like Advanced Installer which can install and work with databases seamlessly... I guess 2k was too expensive.
 
@JABFreeware Lol
If I suggested spending 2k my PM would have heart attack
Even though our budget this year is something near enough 100m, company-wide.
 
in C# is there a way to enforce that an overridden method is invoked in derived class.... similar to the way a constructor works in derived classes with the whole : base (params) syntax on the constructor signature
?
 
@Sippy whats an extra thousand once in a while...
 
4:10 PM
@Marek Setting IsEnabled = false disables just about everything on the control... property changes, UI changes, etc.
 
You alive @Roel?
 
then again this company was debating co location or cloud hosting and were suprised when cloud hosting would overtake the cost of the servers in 5 months... big suprise that.
 
@JABFreeware Lol
We're moving dev servers to azure
So now devs can't do overtime in the evenings because those get shut off at 7pm
Cos they're paid for by the minute rofl
 
I have used the azure trial. GOt the $300 credit.
 
XD
 
4:11 PM
didnt last long
 
Lol
 
I liked the interface but... im just not a cloud person because of the cost. Maybe when I'm rich some day
 
Management here is basically a circle jerk.
No one ever really does anything.
 
@Sippy what industry?
 
Govt
 
4:13 PM
@Squiggle every industry ever
 
figures
 
I swear management is just a bunch of people who don't really know what they're doing circle jerking
 
I think my boss came from that circle
 
@NETscape it works with Dispather
 
Incompetence in the private sector can only be tolerated up to the point of bankruptcy. Incompetence in government can be infinite.
 
4:15 PM
            Application.Current.Dispatcher.BeginInvoke(
            DispatcherPriority.Background,
            new Action(() => this.TabControlMain.SelectedIndex = 0));
 
@Sippy I've seen institutions where one actual worker had three managers. Those three managers only had him to manage.
 
@Squiggle ...
 
Then the austerity cuts happened, and all three managers got the sack :D
 
I have 3 managers
 
@Squiggle very true very true. But Incompetence around me has a very finite limit before I get extremely frustrated. STFU and get out of my way.
 
4:16 PM
But that's cos I'm on 3 different projects.
And my workload is still tiny
 
@Marek I couldn't tell you where the problem happens. I've never touched a tabcontrol from code-behind. I follow MVVM :)
 
Cos all they do is make slow decisions lol
 
WPF cries when code behind touches it :P
 
VM does not like when you touch it there
 
hahaha
 
4:21 PM
VM's loss
 
@Squiggle wait, managers got sacked?
in what insane, ludicrous country of common sense is this?
 
lol
 
@TomW yeah :D It only took 10 years.
@TomW they were given the golden handshake, though.
 
fhh
 
4:25 PM
time is relative though
 
@JABFreeware only to a noticeable degree if you are a photon or a relativistic cosmic ray.
Which you are not.
 
@TomW I am too
I wouldn't expect anyone to understand though.
 
OK, so it makes a difference to timekeeping on orbiting satellites, don't question the hyperbole
 
wonder what the security is like on those satellites...
 
@JABFreeware you probably need a key to get in.
 
4:28 PM
@Squiggle I'll try "password" :P
 
Don't want just any cosmonaut turning up and having a rummage around
no, an actual key.
 
I meant software not hardware
ewwwww I dont want to go into space
 
spaaaaaaaaaaace
 
@Squiggle we can get you a key, but the keyring will take ten years to build and cost fifty billion dollars
 
@TomW "whilst the Russians would just use a crowbar" or something?
 
4:30 PM
lol
 
right. 6:30pm. Home.
 
They did install a gun on the early Soyuz IIRC
 
the Russians probably dont even make a door
 
I think you'd have to aim rather delicately
 
@TomW or precise counter thrust
 
4:31 PM
http://imgur.com/x8UqtbA
:D
 
More in the sense that a 30mm automatic cannon or whatever is likely to shred the satellite rather than break any locks
 
best graph evar
 
You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!
 
what axis is what in that graph?
 
It shows how much Obama is a communist, over time
obviously.
 
4:33 PM
I didnt need a graph to know that lol
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
This group on linked in has over half a million members: linkedin.com/groups/…
 
The lines go to the right, so not only is Obama a communist, it's getting worse
 
hey guys !! :D
 
@TomW Obama is getting worse?
whats new
 
4:33 PM
the graph even goes back in time a couple times
which leads me to believe the whole thing's sideways
 
Once in 1985 and once in 2015
?
 
questionable
 
morning kids
 
hi Pheonix
 
4:39 PM
I swear I am the only person in my office 1/2 the time
everyone works from home so often
 
@Pheonixblade9 where the boss cant watch mmmmmmmmmm
 
please review my code:
0
Q: Shared access point

GLeBaTiIn my game, people connect to my server. The server creates a GamePeer per connection. GamePeer creates one HelpersContainer that contains all helpers. Any helpers must see any other helpers. //1 network peer = 1 GamePeer object class GamePeer { HelpersContainer helpersContainer = new H...

 
alllll byyyy myyyy seeeeeeelllllf
 
ONLY A LAPTOP??????
 
< consultant
 
4:41 PM
post the same pic again
chatception
 
@Pheonixblade9 I can code on site with a laptop but I sooooo like multiple screens I have at home for big projects
 
old setup:
 
Take the same pic again, I mean
 
Why do recruiters email me about a position and just tell me what the requirements are?
 
I need to go and work for a good companyt
 
4:42 PM
Nothing about what it pays, benefits or even what I'd be doing.
 
Those things probably all suck
 
@SpencerRuport because they want to reel you in first
 
@SpencerRuport usually for the same reason a seller doesn't list the price...because its bad
 
I get those emails and I just say "can you beat $120k? no? kthxbai"
 
@Pheonixblade9 you make that much?
 
4:43 PM
@Pheonixblade9 - If they want to reel me in telling me the client is willing to offer 4 weeks paid vacation is a good way to get my attention.
 
@JABFreeware I'm hourly, but that's my average, yeah
I can make more if I work more hours
 
@Pheonixblade9 what kind of company do you work for?
 
consulting, as stated above :) professional services mainly but I work in the technical solutions division
 
sweet
 
@SpencerRuport I get 5 and consider that about normal. 4 would be the legal minimum here
+ public holidays
yeah
 
4:45 PM
@ton.yeung working on the shitty project
@TomW there is 0 mandatory vacation in the US
 
@TomW - Yeah we're getting there. I'm starting to see more offers for 3 weeks. It used to be 2 weeks flat.
 
most places you get 2 weeks
 
I'm going what I can to change that.
 
does someone of you guys know how to change the whole ui (all backcolors) in background, and the show it to the user - when it finished loading??
 
@Pheonixblade9 I didn't say mandatory but you chose the right word - you actually have to take it
 
4:46 PM
Every recruiter I talk to I tell them I'm looking for no less than 4 weeks PTO.
 
@SpencerRuport that's a tough sell - most places want you to work there for 5 years before they start respecting your life
 
Both you and your employer are breaking the law if you clock less than 20 total days PTO/year
 
I had to eat a tiny vacation cut to work here
went from 3 weeks to ~2.5 weeks
 
@Pheonixblade9 - When everybody is whining about a developer shortage it shouldn't be a tough sell. We developers just need to start expecting that and it will happen.
 
my vacation is all based on my billable hours worked... I think it's something like 8.33 hours billable === 1 hour vacation
but I can take unpaid time off and it still works out
 
4:47 PM
If we all get that mindset that 4-5 weeks is minimum companies can't afford to not give it to us.
 
plus I get a sabbatical after 3 years
 
As I say to my colleagues, you don't ask for leave. You notify your employer. It's yours, they don't give it to you
 
@TomW yeah that is one nice thing about my last company, they had a very healthy view of PTO
 
@TomW "I am not going to show up next week, just wanted to let you know"
 
the engineering dept, at least. sounds like the marketing dept worked a lot of unpaid overtime
engineers have this weird thing about not taking vacation
 
4:48 PM
@JABFreeware yes, that's basically it. The contract has a minimum notice period for leave
 
@SpencerRuport i think when there is no "shortage," we will then rely on self-marketing or contracting... say 50% of the jobs are filled today, I bet 50% of the people who have jobs suck at it or aren't qualified.
 
So you're in breach of contract by dropping that bomb on the friday and not showing up monday
 
usually a week of notice for a couple days or a couple weeks notice for over a week is pretty standard
 
i feel lucky, nobody here cares about when you take pto, i wake up some mornings and just don't feel like going to work, nobody cares, others do the same thing
 
I've definitely just said to my boss "hey I have a shitload of stuff I have to do tomorrow, can I flex the day?" at my last job and they were cool with it
 
4:49 PM
Our rule of thumb is 2x the amount of leave you intend to take is your minimum notice
 
@SteveG wow where do you work? I want to work there!!!!!!!!!! :P
 
like I've definitely taken 1/2 days off and just worked longer hours the rest of the week and nobody cared
like when I have to go to a dr. appt or get my car smogged or something
@NETscape the "shortage" that companies refer to is senior level engineers willing to work for entry-level wages
 
This company I'm working for now has a much better view of time off than any place I've worked.
 
@SteveG I'm interested that you say that. You must have had very very strict routine drilled into you back in the military days. I know some ex really dislike breaking that habit and others can't wait
 
there is no shortage of developers, there is a shortage of developers willing to work for slave wages
 
4:51 PM
@Pheonixblade9 - Exactly. And we can do better. We need to start expecting more PTO.
 
i don't know about that. there are plenty of entry level software opportunities out there that aren't being filled
 
@Pheonixblade9 tbf the salaries you quote for experienced engineers are sky high compared to the UK
 
@Pheonixblade9 Agreed
 
@NETscape because they aren't really looking for entry level engineers
 
so then companies hire the 2 yr degree people and give them the same benefits as the 4 yr degree engineer with the same job title
 
4:52 PM
We're good, but realistic. Usually not as much as 2x the average skilled professional
 
@NETscape - Yeah because they pay $10/hr and expect a college degree that saddles them with $30k of debt. That's a bad deal.
 
you don't put "3 years of J2EE, 5 years Python, blah blah blah" requirements on entry level positions
@TomW meh, I'm riding the gravy train as long as I can. I enjoy making 6 figures at age 24 with my student loan 1/2 paid off already
 
@TomW - I'd prefer more PTO personally.
 
@TomW i couldn't wait :p
 
a friend's mother just graduated a 2yr degree and got hired as a software engineer making > 50k, and i would not say she was qualified to be an engineer by any means
 
4:53 PM
@Pheonixblade9 I think I'm being ripped off. Just getting around to doing something about it
 
@TomW I don't get as much yearly PTO but here I get a 1 month paid sabbatical every 3 years/6000 billable hours
 
if you can't comprehend XML in your last semester of 2 yr degree, you should not be entitled to be labeled as an engineer
 
@SpencerRuport amen to that. I guess that would have to come from startup culture, because big companies don't change like that
 
"Need angular.js expert! 5+ years hands-on experience required."
 
@ton.yeung it's a national policy
 
4:54 PM
@NETscape - You're thinking about this the wrong way. Instead think "She's qualified to make that much as an entry level engineer. More experienced engineers are just way underpaid."
 
@SpencerRuport exactly
it's the same reason minimum wage laws are so controversial. People shouldn't be thinking "fry cooks aren't worth $15/hr!" they should be thinking "goddamn, I'm underpaid!"
 
@SpencerRuport but then startup culture seems to emphasise massive grind
 
@TomW - Bigger companies seem to be getting on board because they can afford it. Startups are usually the ones that offer slave wages because "WE'RE GONNA BE HUGE!"
 
@TomW startup culture is bullshit. If I don't have a large equity stake, I'm not working massive overtime to make some MBA dropout millions
 
@Pheonixblade9 my beliefs are along the lines that one should be able to have a modest but acceptable standard of living doing any job
 
4:55 PM
@TomW yes, and most people here in the US believe you should have to work your ass off just to survive
 
then all my mcdonalds burgers would cost 10$
 
people are slowly coming over to the idea of a basic income, but it will take years
@SteveG they won't actually - if you do the math, prices will raise less than the amount buying power of low income people are raised
people just don't understand macroeconomics
 
@SteveG then maybe eating real food will be more competitive
 
@TomW lol
 
all they understand is "wages double, prices must double!"
 
4:57 PM
Upper management just needs to start getting used to the idea that their salaries aren't going to be 5x as much as their underlings.
 
@TomW that's actually a real consideration
@SpencerRuport try 100x or more for CEOs
 
Fuck Henry Ford, this is all his doing
 
@TomW Henry Ford actually tried to pay his employees more. His shareholders sued him to cut their pay and won
 
@Pheonixblade9 - Yeah I try not to talk about CEOs because they're just the tip of the iceberg.
 
if wages double, they have a larger pool of employees to pick from, because that taco bell employee isn't going to stick around when the place across the street is paying $15, so all the shitty employees will still be fucked, a lot of the employees screaming for $15/hour
 
4:58 PM
Dodge v. Ford Motor Company, 170 NW 668 (Mich 1919) is a case in which the Michigan Supreme Court held that Henry Ford owed a duty to the shareholders of the Ford Motor Company to operate his business to profit his shareholders, rather than the community as a whole or employees. It is often cited as embodying the principle of "shareholder value" in companies. More recent cases such as AP Smith Manufacturing Co v. Barlow or Shlensky v. Wrigley suggest that the approach in Dodge no longer represents the law in most states, including Delaware, which regards the balancing of stakeholder interests as...
 
@Pheonixblade9 I mean against the customer, not the employee
 
Anyone who controls salaries and makes >5x than their average employee needs a reality check.
 
Junk consumerism, be it food or any other lowest-common-denominator commodity, was his idea. Rinse the maximum amount of profit from the customer for the minimum amount of quality and thereby maximise profit.
 
yeah, that's basic economics
 
@Pheonixblade9 also, he went nuts in his later years
 
4:59 PM
scale vs. margin
yeah, not saying he was a great guy, that whole antisemitism thing kinda sucked...
but he did try to pay his employees more. his goal was to make it so that all of his employees could afford his cars
 
what are the 5 programmers blog you follow ?
 

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