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7:00 PM
In computing, quadruple precision (also commonly shortened to quad precision) is a binary floating-point computer number format that occupies 16 bytes (128 bits) in computer memory. This 128 bit quadruple precision is designed not only for applications requiring results in higher than double precision, but also, as a primary function, to allow the computation of double precision results more reliably and accurately by minimising overflow and round-off errors in intermediate calculations and scratch variables: as William Kahan, primary architect of the original IEEE-754 floating point stan...
 
Ell
well you could write an arbitrary precision
 
@Ell It would be slow.
 
Ell
what is the alternative?
 
Quad types are useful... let's say having .NET run a fusion power plant. But I think the world would laugh if .NET ran a fusion plant "Sir, we need to restart to get the latest server patch"
2
 
Once I decided I was going to write a rational number type that would be able to store even the likes of 1/3.
Never even got started.
@Ell Forgetting about it and going with double.
 
Ell
7:03 PM
well fair enough
but if you need the precision
 
Afternoon, everyone.
 
I have to use decimal, not double.
 
Why? What's wrong?
 
when I convert a gram into a picogram it is 10-24
 
7:13 PM
@Ellie hey
 
uups sorry, I mean attogram, thats after the picogram
 
I don't get what your problem is.
 
So maybe I missunderstand something. The double gives me a precision of 15-16. so after the 16 digit it can not guarantee precision, right? When I use a attogram from a gram this means 1gram = 0,000 000 000 000 000 001 attogram. now, is the double accurate enough?
 
15-16 significant digits.
The double can store numbers with several hundred digits after the decimal.
The decimal, however, cannot.
 
@ShotgunNinja 'Ello, sir
 
7:22 PM
but that this mean significant? sorry for the stupid question... -.-
*what
 
A double can store 1.0, or 0.000000000000000000000001, but not 1.000000000000000000000001
The first significant digit is the first digit LTR that is not a 0.
It can store 14 digits after that one.
 
okay, thanks. Do you still think, I should use double?
 
Yes.
Double can store very small and very large numbers, Decimal can't.
 
ok. that I have not change the code.. than was my decision.
*than
.. right..
 
AFternoon? It's still morning girl!
too might time on the farm.
 
7:28 PM
I've just done the most difficult thing I've ever had to do
I've just put some pizza aside for lunch tomorrow
 
@RyanTernier Pfft. It's 13:30 here!
 
@ellie that means it's 5 o'clock somewhere!
 
Is that guy with the blue shirt considered a troll youtube.com/watch?v=PdKup_ybJro
 
HOLY STEREO TYPE BATMAN
Pony Tail, Beard, "rolly" type shirt...
 
That video looks unprofessional ... Is that what a day job looks like for a programmer ? They aren't even getting nothing done . And they are getting paid to mess around all day ?
 
7:41 PM
@RyanTernier Absolutely
 
that's a video of fail pair programming. the guy is trying to put his arm around the poor little indian boy
That's not how pair programming works.
Pair Programming (by Ryan T)
-----------------------------------
Programmer 1 does something
Programmer 2 doesn't like it
Both programmers go to a meeting room and yell it out
they come out happy that there's a resolution
they implement it
Lead dev finds out what they did
Brings both to meeting room, they yell it out.
Architecture comes into the mix and they want to yell too
1 hour goes by and they all come to the agreement they need pizza for this SCRUMY meeting (SCRUM while Yelling)
 
How much programming is involved in a session that lasts an hour ?
 
usually none. Programming is actually quite easy. IT's ensuring the requirements, design, maintainability, and future planning. that's the tough part
I can give anyone a design and they can build it. How they build it, what they use to build it, security considerations, and business rules. those are the thigns that usually take the majority of the time
I'm all for PairProgramming, it has a lot of uses. I've done it for mission critical - get this out the door in 2 hours or i'll kill you - type of scenarios
but for general day-to-day, unless it's a junior/senior pair, there's better efficiency to be had (for traditional pair programming - 2 people + 1 computer).
 
7:56 PM
This internet filter sucks.
 
Having a class like this one:
class User
{
	string name {get;set;}
}
is it possible to create a different Metadata of 'User' for each View using MVC 4?
 
Visual Studio is registered! XD
 
Mono on Arch Linux sucks
 
I'm out, y'all. Have a good one.
 
U funny, bro.
 
8:06 PM
haha
 
Fixed it for you: @noob1992 Mono and linux sucks.
 
Writing a wmi test to a text file, 40KB so far, how long will it take... (iterating every win32 class, 695 Win32_ classes) XD
 
@RoelvanUden Believe it or not, I like MonoDevelop better than Visual Studio.
 
@WileyMarques no declarations on your class/property?
 
@KendallFrey You're trolling now, aren't ya?
 
8:07 PM
No.
I haven't used it much, but I've found it's more stable and has some neat features.
GTK# isn't bad either.
 
Are you kidding ?
 
@RoelvanUden almost: both Mono and Linux suck (connotes that they each suck on their own rather than only when they are found together)
 
NOOOOOO
Mono may suck, but Linux definitely does not.
 
@KendallFrey i was correcting the English, not the validity of the statement :)
 
@RyanTernier just using an example. I'd like to put different DataAnotations on each ViewModel
 
8:11 PM
@KendallFrey last time that happened, it was just an update to the nuget plugin.
 
Oh, yeah, I remember that.
 
Worst part about vs updates is, if the progress bar is 100%, it still keeps going ()_()
 
Bah, that's nothing.
 
Its anoying
 
@CSharpStudent its a shout out to the Vista estimation thingy
 
8:13 PM
Can't stand updates/patches going further than 100%
 
When <insert name of our flagship product here> updates a database, it can and will show 50% for a full progress bar.
 
say it with me now: "You are not agile if your customer does not participate"
 
Dammit.
 
lol @SteveKonves
 
8:14 PM
"sprints are useless if no one looks at what was done for the preceding sprints"
 
All that terminology, out the window.
 
Although I love having slow starters, then jumping 30% in 1 time
 
We were instructed not to talk to a customer.
 
someone on your team does though. the PM. someone.
 
The CSRs.
 
8:15 PM
and does your leadership say that you are "doing agile"?
 
Yeah. SCRUM.
 
same problem we have. scrumbut.
 
:( wmi writer got exception
only got to the letter c, 110mb
thats a new 1
quota violation
 
It's so hard to get a progress bar relevant that we just did away with them and gave people a spinning wheel.
 
Or a marquee.
 
8:19 PM
how can you check if an array is an string or int array?
 
the problem with agile is that a lot of places assume that since agile != waterfall that as long as we are not doing waterfall, we are doing agile. That leads to a lot of weird things being done under the name "agile"
 
@CSharpStudent is int[] should work.
Unless you want it to work for all types.
 
I have something like this
                                    if (propData.Value is Array) { foreach (string str in (string[])propData.Value) { sb.AppendLine(propData.Name + " : " + str); } }
but can it check if its an int/string array before you check it is an array?
 
Sure.
 
8:26 PM
i dont know how many times i can explain how agile works before my freaking head explodes. im tired of it. stop saying we are doing agile if the freaking stakeholders won't contribute. its simple.
 
define 'stakeholders'
 
the person that you are building the software for. it could be a customer, it could be the system analyst in lieu of the customer, etc.
 
The CSR?
 
if the only way you are getting feedback from the stakeholder is after launch, then no
 
Our stack is something like Customer|CSR|Product Owner|Programmers
 
8:29 PM
the product owner in this regard would probably be your stakeholder.
product owner decides what features are needed and such, right?
he probably gets them from the customer
or csr
 
Yeah.
Exactly.
 
and your product owner reviews the stuff you guys do at end of sprint?
 
Yup.
 
yeah, well my freaking PM doesn't do that always. we've gone 3 sprints without any review by anyone.
so now we get to launch, customer says, where's x? y doesnt work as expected.
 
ouch
 
8:31 PM
can you tell im angry? heh
its not agile. its waterfall with a different toolset
 
anyone work with xamarin c# for android in Visual Studio
 
lol the wmi test thingy, 700MB memory usage, didn't even get that with the 1M line writing
 
like $399 so I am wanting feedback if possible.
 
xamarin has a great rep, thats about all i can say
 
has anyone heard of any free alternative?
 
8:35 PM
nah, thats pretty specialty software
 
@ChadRuppert thanks
 
how can i inherit from DynamicObject and MarshalByRefObject
 
you cannot inherit from 2 classes directly.
 
anyone here have any opinion on mobile dev in VS? im a noob and looking to expand into mobile dev
 
8:43 PM
if you want to do that with xamarin or something else, the current thought is to build all your onclient services/etc with xamarin, and call into the libs with native ui
 
@ChadRuppert yes but i just cant see how to do it
 
hey guys
 
@RohanSingh, the answer is you can't
 
what's the least painful way to have radio buttons inside a wpf DataGrid?
 
8:46 PM
thanks chad. appreciate the advice. ill look into it. just seemed to me that c# is cleaner than java, but who wants to be a part of te tiny win phone market?
 
true that.
i don't know that java is more messy, just more verbose.
read: ugly
 
@zneak I don't know about wpf, but for asp.net, there's a user control out there called GroupRadioButton.
maybe there's something similar for wpf?
 
there are radio buttons, just no very obvious way to use them inside data grids
I'm trying something right now
 
in wpf at least there is a property called groupname in radio buttons. yo can specify a custom name for all related radios. 4 radios in a control? want two groups? in group name in your common properties specify "group1" for twwo buttons and "group2" in the others. or whatever custom names you want
 
I want two grouped radio buttons per data row
if I set a literal group name, it's gonna affect all the rows
the rows are programmatically filled, so I can't specify a different one myself
 
8:54 PM
i see. hmmm
 
generate an id per row?
 
with databinding, or you are completely creating the row?
 
data binding
I'm trying to see if I can use a binding for a group name
 
why not just bind against the index?
 
could you pass in the rowname as your group name for each generated row somehow?
 
8:56 PM
is there an index property somewhere I'm not aware of?
@dotToString, yes, that's what I'm trying to do
 
aha abhisheksur.com/2011/03/… @zsneak did you find that one?
 
I didn't find that one specifically, but yeah, radio buttons and bindings are awkward
 
do you have some unique identifier in each item that you are binding? groupname could probably be set that way
 
yes, this is exactly what I'm doing now, and it works
 
so whats the issue? :)
 
9:00 PM
I'm good now, but I didn't think I could use a binding for that before chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/7579379#7579379
 
ah ok
spiffy
 
while I'm at it, my grid is read-only, but the "focused" cell still has a black outline, is there a way to get rid of it?
            <DataGrid.CellStyle>
                <Style TargetType="DataGridCell">
                    <Setter Property="FocusVisualStyle" Value="{x:Null}"/>
                </Style>
            </DataGrid.CellStyle>
doesn't do it
 
templates ftw
 
that one i don't know
alright, im out for the day. laters folks
 
I have Expression Blend installed on my PC. Should I feel deep shame?
 
9:03 PM
can you just pass in a element of a strng array for a name?
like:
int row = element.Count();
then pass in row[rownumber]?
 
for my second question: I was missing a <Setter Property="BorderThickness" Value="0"/>
 
Holy shit. The open icon I designed, and the one in blend are freaky similar.
 
@dotToString, how would you do that with bindings?
 
I am not sure as i am new to wpf, but it seems the elegant way to go if generating the rows programmatically. hold on a sec, please let me try something
 
code review, anyone?
 
9:10 PM
LOL
@Pheonixblade9 What kind of code?
 
As a non-Canadian, I do not understand why this is a problem
 
@KendallFrey my Android app.
 
@TomW What's to stop the Carolina player from scoring if he gets the puck?
 
@KendallFrey its not exactly SO
 
It uses the SE engine, but isn't a SE site.
Also, the content is dubious.
 
9:21 PM
is the SE engine available for use? or is that just visually similar?
 
I'm pretty sure it's open source.
Lots of sites use it.
 
it's open source.
 
Protip: Do not try to guess a website name that you know has xxx in it at work.
 
huh, about 6 months back i checked on that, and it wasn't: blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/02/…
parts of it are opensource (markdown etc) but have they actually made the engine open source (we would like to use it for a project here at work if they have)
 
@KendallFrey I already linked it, but here you go, if anyone feels like reviewing an android app.
 
9:28 PM
I think I'll pass.
 
@KendallFrey you're just scared to see an entire project written by me. You're afraid that I'm a better programmer than you
 
No, I just don't feel like reviewing Android code.
 
V @KendallFrey
 
Java? runs like heck
I refuse to look at Java.
 
then you're just close-minded
 
9:32 PM
No, I'm a C# programmer. Problem?
 
saying "I'm a C# programmer" instead of "I'm a programmer" is the #1 way to reduce your career opportunities
 
Programming Java doesn't help.
 
stop bickering
 
How about saying I'm a JS programmer? Is that better?
@dotToString stop bitching :P
 
both languages are cool, one just happens to be a bit more....messy
 
9:34 PM
I wish I could ask which one, but I can't.
 
Can't we all agree C# is better? If not, got to Java chat
I WILL BITCH
 
@KendallFrey lol, I'm saying restricting yourself to a single language is sort of like if you were a mechanic and saying "lol, no dude, I don't fix Hondas, I just fix Lotuses"
 
actually mechanics do just that
 
Are we comparing C# and Java? Because in that case it's a no-brainer.
 
foreign and domestic....
you are right
 
9:35 PM
@Pheonixblade9 What about saying you only fix engines?
 
C# all the way
obligatory "DUH"
 
Every language has it's uses. Some just have more than others.
 
EVERY?
not so
some are just worse at doing the same things
 
Even Java has an appropriate use.
 
yeah, android
 
9:38 PM
Even though I don't know what it is.
 
@KendallFrey see, that's a better attitude
 
otherwise screw java
 
@KendallFrey I'm just saying, you shouldn't say "I don't do Java", you should say "I prefer C#"
 
you two got me in a foul mood
 
it's fine for a mechanic to have a preference for working on Acuras
 
9:38 PM
But I don't do Java.
 
I dont do java
 
but you're focusing on the negative
this is career advice :)
 
I'm focusing on Java? How?
 
you are focusing on a bad analogy
 
9:39 PM
ba dum tsss
 
lol
I went to the doc and he said I needed surgery. I told him I wanted a second opinion. He said "You're ugly, too" Ba doom boom!
 
Oh, crap. Special ASCII characters in source code. Look out!
 
Oh, Data, how your poor delivery makes me laugh......
 
@dotToString I strained my back the other week. My doctor told me no heavy lifting. Now I have to sit down to pee :(
 
La Forge and Data would scoff at Java
LMAO!
 
9:42 PM
 
"Knock, knock" "Who's there" "Interrupting Owl" "Interrupting Owl-" "Hoooo!"
 
Java salary used to be higher than c#
 
That's a scary thing to see in Notepad++
 
9:45 PM
however that is now evened out
 
Is there any demand in the job market for F#? I'm a fledgling OOP and I was thinking for a second language, I may try a whole new paradigm as to broaden my understanding of programming in general. Is this a good idea or should I focus on congruent languages first? i.e. I know C# fairly well, so move on to HTML/XAML/XML/JS/(gasp! VB.NET) first? Or go further in the rabbit hole with C++, C, etc.? HUGE question so thanks any responders.
 
@dotToString probably not a ton...
C# is #5 now, C is #1, Java is #2
Position
Jan 2013 Position
Jan 2012 Delta in Position Programming Language Ratings
Jan 2013 Delta
Jan 2012 Status
1 2 C 17.855% +0.89% A
2 1 Java 17.417% -0.05% A
3 5 Objective-C 10.283% +3.37% A
4 4 C++ 9.140% +1.09% A
5 3 C# 6.196% -2.57% A
6 6 PHP 5.546% -0.16% A
7 7 (Visual) Basic 4.749% +0.23% A
8 8 Python 4.173% +0.96% A
9 9 Perl 2.264% -0.50% A
10 10 JavaScript 1.976% -0.34%
way down...
45 F# 0.187%
 
woof
what i heard about it sounded fun. oh well!
 
it is fun :)
people just generally don't use it
if you want a good functional language, clojure/erlang/haskell are good options
scala
 
ive heard haskell is pretty difficult
 
9:58 PM
eh
not really
just different
 
10:26 PM
@Pheonixblade9 You have to be good at math
Sorta
 
question: without saying what it is, and -without- looking it up
(If you DON"T know just say you don't, trying to gauge something)
Do you know what YAGNI, SOLID (development term) are?
Can you explain MVP, MVC, and MVVM?
 
@LewsTherin I'm good at math!
 
sup?
 
yes ive had enough interviews to BS my way through any of those
 
@Pheonixblade9 Oh I know.. I meant a developer who wants to use Haskell. It helps.
 
10:37 PM
YAGNI, SOLID no; MVP, MVC, and MVVM yes
 
@RyanTernier Yes
 
should know solid, yagni is just 'you aint gonna need it' ie KISS or less is more
 
Just got out of a plethora of senior .net interviews, most people "don't" know what those things stand for, but can explain them fully
 
and i mean you or one should know solid
 
what does it stand for (lol :D)
 
10:38 PM
@RyanTernier Explain maybe.. but understanding and implementing it? Different ballgame.
I'm not familiar with MVP.. Model View Presentation?
Nah, that sounds wrong
 
@LewsTherin IT's common sense, and implementing it is proper design.
 
SOLID: single responsibility, open / close principle, liskov (?) principle, code to interfaces, dependency injection
 
@RyanTernier Common sense doesn't usually follow patterns ha
 
SOLID is pretty much: Object has one responsibility. Entities should be extendable, objects should be able to be replaceable by subtypes (polymorphism), many interfaces are better than one generic one, and abstraction
 
@drch Yeah Liskov
 
10:39 PM
dependency injection, design by contact etc.
Ask someone "Define factory design paterN" they'll go "Uhhhhh." Say, how would you do this and they'll say they implemented that on X projects haha
 
at the place im working at they're big on DDD
 
@RyanTernier I hope I get that in my interviews. That's easy :P
 
Dashboard-Driven-Development
 
:O Sounds like Scrum?
 
they have a screen with the code analysis reports and thats what the devs game against
im joking, thats what i call it anyways
 
10:41 PM
Rofl
3D :P
Sounds kwl
 
24h ban of a user in c++ by mod just now
 
11:02 PM
@LewsTherin From my perspective, when I interview a senior I make sure they know the technology they need to write, and then i grill them on concepts, work ethics, methodologies, customer relations, reviews, etc.
@LewsTherin For example:
Contrast the difference between SOA and SOAP Web services.
Is it important to implement continuous integration?
If a customer gave you an access 2000 database and said they wanted it in .NET, what would you do? go.
 
i would walk on that last one
 
Sometimes it needs to happen
Updating legacy systems (Cobol, fortran, etc.) to .NET
link .NET to COBOL
 
ok i change my stance
i would run
 
or my job, 90% .NET 2.0
 
owch
 
11:05 PM
R&D is candy for developers, but meat and potatoes is 2 versions behind current release usually.
 
depends on the age and size of the codebase
i wouldn't take a job that was primarily .net 2.0
 
get 2 kids and an ex-wife and you'll take the job that pays the $$ ;)
 
or create a job?
 
or create an industry
 
create a job.... while having an ex wife... she'll try to take it
 
11:12 PM
wtf travia has a new avatar
 
It is similar :P
I just doodled on it lol
 
hey in law, whats it called where you are guilty because of association?
 
That's why I'm glad I only have an ex fiancée, definitely dodged a bullet
guilty by association?
 
heh guess so
 
could be accomplice but that would mean you took part in the crime itself
 
11:17 PM
@RyanTernier I am not sure what the difference really is.. I think SOAP is used to design Service Oriented apps. SOAP is just a protocol to transfer data over the network.. I dunno
But why interview seniors.. they are seniors ha
@RyanTernier No freaking idea :(
@RyanTernier Look for a connector that I can use EF can use as an underlying provider
I guess I just failed the interview ha
 
@LewsTherin Seniors need to ensure other seniors are seniors :P Don't want to hire someone that's douchy
 
Makes sense ;)
 
Another SO?
 
11:34 PM
no rep, no fun
 
Ha ha
 
hi all!
 
well It's settled. My daughter wants to be a princess; with glass heels and a light-saber. my girl rocks.
I've done well, my job is complete
 

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