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11:00 AM
Well we can read that article you linked back to you if you want, but without knowing what you've done so far, we might be at a loss to help. =)
 
back again
i'm stuffed, good lunch
 
Welcome back @Rob. Whatcha have?
 
meat sandwich with fried egg and a rolll of Bakpao
 
@Genti Have you checked out the Browsable attribute?
 
11:04 AM
@Smudge202 No
 
@Rob Bakpao?? Google image search
 
@Smudge202 I didn't need to use it for the other properties, so.
 
@Genti My suggestion is to try using it, and let us know if that doesn't help.
What code VS uses and why is more often than not beyond me, so I'm not going to try and justify it's usage to you on their behalf =) ;)
 
@Smudge202 That didn't help.
 
11:07 AM
;P
 
@Genti The most common attributes for this are:
[Browsable(true)]
[EditorBrowsable(EditorBrowsableState.Always)]
[DesignerSerializationVisibility(DesignerSerializationVisibility.Content)]
[Bindable(true)]
 
@Smudge202 I just tried them all, still makes no difference. Funny.
@Smudge202 Hold it right there... it worked!
 
Hurray =)
 
+15
 
11:10 AM
+15 :)
 
makes me wonder how many +15 we miss out!
 
this is a bad place for your rep
 
Lol, and we're not just talking about the points ;)
 
must farm rep.. must level up.. I want my Frost Mourne!!
 
11:11 AM
Ok, another smoke break then I'll attempt to finish answering @Hans' question... got about 6 paragraphs typed out so far, despite my opening line currently being "I'll try to keep this short".
 
well in all honesty I do wanna get past 2k (so i don't have to wait for peer review for every edit i make to a new post) but its pretty hard to earn rep :(
 
but this is way better than posting ur question.. and receive answers for points...
 
well sometimes yea.
 
@Smudge202 appreciate ur help bro
 
as such many of my answers go unmarked anyway so.. I'm not losing much out :)
I usually get more points from up votes than from answers themselves. Suppose part of the reason is necromancy. I tend to answer in ancient questions that I stumble on when i was searching and then left answer for others who may run into same answer
 
11:14 AM
it's a great feeling helping others who are in need that to gain points.. ;)
 
Hehe it is
but bad thing about this chat room is.. my productivity in office has gone wayyy down!
 
ahahah
 
^ I'll sign that. One day my boss will join this chat room and I'll be in the poop. ^^
 
a small proggy that I should have finished in two hours yesterday.. is still sitting on my table
 
too bad i'm always in the position of asking help instead of helping..ehhehe
 
11:16 AM
Yeh, I'm still cough working on cough the "'Sys' is undefined" issue I was complaining about earlier...
 
someday :) we were all noobs once. or so I tell my fellow players in MMOs when I've gone past level 50 :D
sometimes I wish SO was a university where you could graduate
I learned more from SO in a year than i learned in rest of my life and I've been at this for 2 decades
noooo the privileged info sob
 
Fat fingers... managed to hit "Insert" then "Enter" instead of Delete. =/
 
i know :)
reminds me: Anybody with experience in Haskell? failing that F# ?
i can't go to the actual rooms because i have experience with neither and I still need to deal with it!
Morning @Billdr
 
Hey hey
 
@Billdr morning!
 
11:21 AM
Afternoon Rob!
Or is it still morning there? Timezones are such a pita.
 
@Mav I've done some work with F#. What's the boggle? Also, afternoon @Billdr
 
oh I've been stuck on this puzzle for about 3 years now i think - I've looked up haskell syntax.. even fixed it partially yet I'm failing to get it to run!
ever heard of mod-x?
 
Afraid not, sorry. Carry on though, might be able to make sense of it ^^
Oh wait, mod-x the security thingy?
 
yea
I'm stuck on Level 7
lost 89 ranks in 3 years so its not too bad but I'd like to learn before I lose the other 600!
now that I'm experienced with LINQ, functional programming is starting to make more sense.
 
@Maverik So last night I broke into a mad scientists' house, and stole a diseased rat corpse. I then snuck past a few dozen armed thugs and deposited the rat into their secret drug distillery.

You should probably get on playing Dishonored.
Oh, I did this because a senile old lady asked me to. She gave me the ability to slow down time when I succeeded.
 
11:29 AM
O.O
My monitor is busted remember? I ordered that unknown korean monitor though
 
I missed that part
 
supposedly uses same LG panel thats in Apple Cinema. Also Dishonored isn't out here yet
 
critical updates have been applied, and I must now restart my computer.
 
Crossover 27Q LED
 
Okay, I do remember that happening.
brb
 
11:30 AM
hehe, you're not on windows 8 then? :)
@Smudge202 right, sorry, having trouble finding the code! - I think I'm gonna have to disassemble the exe again and decrypt the code from inside it
(its stegnographed code in a packed junk exe)
There goes another office day! I'm gonna disassemble the thing
Spirits are not with me this week! my IDA refuses to run :( I guess i'll have to wait till tomorrow. I'm sure I have a back up at home
 
Nearly done Hans. Got rid of the "I'll try to keep this short" line... it's now an essay XD
 
its +10 already :)
likely to be +25 the moment u post
Has anybody checked out EF6 in its current form? I hear you can use multiple contexts in queries now? I'm wondering if that would allow us cross-database querying ability?
 
I wondered the same @Mav, let me know if you get a chance to check it out? ^^
 
lol
On it!
 
@Smudge202 np bro
 
11:41 AM
I also wondered if it was a late April Fools joke
 
thanks for the persistence
 
11:55 AM
still not here.
 
im here
 
That took forever, if it isn't helpful to you @Hans I'm going to facepalm pretty hard. ^^
0
A: MVP, where should the classes be created?

Smudge202If you wonder "Why is this post so long!?" it's because I'm chatting to Hans and others in the C# hangout and had an idea (I think) of what it was he wanted to learn. Hans, It is completely doable to use MVP in WinForms, we have it full blown on an old Windows CE 6 device (winform style) app,...

 
@Smudge202 give me some time to read though it
thanks very much though, i really appreciate it
:)
 
12:12 PM
@Maverik Once you start working with Java's Swing, you will be crunching up tons of O.O. code.
 
I did some swing back in uni time. Then i met .net... i never looked back :)
 
@Maverik I like the idea of POJO objects to handle events in Swing as a concept, but WinForms events and delegates are fewer lines of code and the Intellisense makes it easy to generate an event handler
 
Plus, we have POCO's. =)
 
theres that and if you're handling events, is it still POJO?
I'm not sure! I'd rather not do anything in my POCO besides storing state.
 
If you follow the standard winform events, nope. However, .Net support countless ways to subscribe and observe POCO's, which could be used as an event source
For example, "Event Sourcing" =)
 
12:19 PM
well true. for that matter we don't even need a POCO.. we may as well write one Main() :D
 
haha, cheeky ;)
 
@Maverik Event handling with a POJO is simple as a concept - the 'event invoker' holds a reference to a list of 'event handling objects'. All it does is call a specific method on each of those objects.
 
@Nitin That's exactly what .Net does. You can actually examine the event handler delegate collection if you know how. ^^
 
@Smudge202 Sure, POCOs can be used but that isn't the norm - defining delegates, events of the delegate type, and attaching event handlers that match the signature of the delegate is the way it's normally done.
 
I prefer the Reactive Extensions approach for that purpose. I guess in that sense I've already moved away from my POCO idea but it seems so right!
 
12:21 PM
@Smudge202 The advantage that .NET gives you is that you can have multiple 'event handling methods' because the methods don't need a particular name.
 
one thing that I'm still messing up is how I'm writing Rx code. I end up with one monolithic piece of code
 
Reactive Extensions are amazing. Been following that since it was CTP in 3.5 I think.
 
that reacts brilliantly, but its pretty hard to understand once I'm done with it!
 
@Maverik I haven't tried reactive extensions; probably something I should put onto my reading list
 
definitely. Its like LINQ. Once you get into it, you'd wonder how you lived without it :)
 
12:22 PM
Mav, just use delegates instead of crazy lamda if you want to break it down, or even declare Expression<Func<Yada>> before hand and then pass them into the Rx
 
yea but it still ends up as a big function no?
 
Big function yes, huge line of lamda, nope. =)
 
Though I'm fairly certain I'm doing it wrong. Theres bound to be cleaner practice of writing reactive code
oh yea... no i do break it down but I'm hating the huge function
 
When I am handling money, should I ever subtract a decimal from a double or vice versa?
 
So long as you're careful with your lamda closures, you can pass out into other emthods Mav? Break down the function into multiple like you would do normally. (Is that what you mean?)
 
12:24 PM
@kush Folks usually say you should use Decimal for pretty much anything you do involving money
 
I imagine you're right Smudge. I just need practice I guess
 
@kush I think a good rule of thumb is try to stick to the same type, decimal is preferred.
 
my boss has this "one exe" policy.. that forces me to normally stay away from Rx
 
@Maverik Rx requires multiple exes?
 
Hm... previously there was no calculation in this code block so I guess we got away with doubles but with this change, I will be adding and subtracting so I am not sure if I am covering all my bases
 
12:26 PM
otherwise I'd practice Rx a lot more and possibly write code faster as I don't have to deal with missed out dependencies on properties
 
@Maverik Or do you mean dlls along with the exe?
 
no Rx is a library that I can't include
cos the project result wouldn't be a single exe anymore
basically he wants to be able to run the result without installing or unzipping. My boss doesn't actually have a problem with dependencies but the end clients are less than stellar on their IQ charts when it comes to computers
 
@Maverik Perhaps you should find out how those PortableApps are made. They seem to package everything into a single executable
 
perhaps I should!
are we talking about portableapps.com ?
 
Although some PortableApps seems to be a kind of a virtual machine (I think I saw a VMWare message flash across the screen for one of them). There are lots of different kinds of PortableApps - some are self-contained in an exe, others are a bunch of files, and yet others seem like they are self-contained VMs.
@Maverik Yes, many of those are self-contained
 
12:29 PM
Well I'm starting to consider ClickOnce deployments now
I've convinced my boss that I won't code for xp compatibility anymore and my minimum .net will be 4
 
@Maverik Java Web Start seems to be the equivalent from the Java camp
 
@Smudge202 u got a sec?
 
@Maverik Visual Studio stopped supporting XP too
 
he has agreed :) he's actually happy with my latest click once deployment - he loves the auto-update functionality
 
@Hans sure
 
12:31 PM
I understand the use of interfaces between classes. i also understand that all my classes are hanging around for the entire duration of the program
what im still not sure baout if where each one should be instantiated
sorry if this is a stupid question
 
@Maverik I switched to GTK+ and C programming recently for my hobbyist development.
 
That's where the container comes in to play Hans
In essence, if you follow the approach I laid out, you write your bindings, and for the most part, don't worry about instantiation at all
The container will manage that for you
 
@Nitin I tried GTK+ and QT but i realised i've been too spoiled by visual studio to let go
 
@Maverik It lets me stay current without having to switch to a newer version of Windows.
 
whilst ensuring that everything your classes need (as defined by their constructor arguments) are accomodated
 
12:33 PM
plus i dont have the audience that can appreciate the portability
 
@Maverik You could try using Glade for the UI designer... I hear it lets you get an experience quite close to what Visual Studio can provide you
 
@Smudge202 how would u do it manually though, out of curiosity?
 
@Maverik Though I prefer Visual Studio myself
@HansRudel You mean without glade? By defining a fixed container, specifying the size and X-Y coordinates.
 
If you wanted to do it manually, without using a third party container, I'd go with lambda. It might get ugly though...
 
@Nitin yup I was on glade :) before I was a programmer i was a linux sysadmin / hobbyist coder
 
12:34 PM
Or get fancy and try to reflect the constructors yourself and inject the required arguments in a similar fashion to the containers do.
 
my commercial .net experience is only about 3 years
 
@Maverik Yes, I would typically use .NET for all of my Windows-only developent
 
@Smudge202 which sort of defeats the point of not using containers no?
 
@Smudge202 .. still a bit lost. would it not still be creating instances in the program.cs file though?
 
@Smudge202 Creating a load of methods isn't perfect either though.
 
12:35 PM
@Maverik BTW, MonoDevelop brings parts of .NET for Linux too, so there's a bit of portability to be had
 
@Nitin sorry, i hadnt put the @....
 
@Nitin Yup i'm sort of following that. I needed Mono for Moonlight but alas I can't port SL5 or WPF yet
 
@Mav So what we're after is a way of handling class instantiation without any form of IoC/DI?
@Hans it would create them if it needed them. If your responsibilities are done correctly, it's unlikely it would create everything
 
@Maverik It's one of the things that keeps me from using Mono for Linux development. But Java is shunned by most of the open-source community, so C is all I can turn to.
 
@Smudge202 well thats what it appears from Han's last question. Though I think your way is the way to go - very reason I was looking forward to your answer as I need to learn how to do it
 
12:38 PM
@Maverik With GTK+ available for Windows as well as Linux and sticking to common library functions, in theory it is possible to get an app working across both Windows and Linux and providing a simple source-based installer
 
@Nitin C / C++ -- love and hate that language!
 
@Hans If we want to really do things properly, you might introduce a Unit of Work pattern, which would greatly reduce the number of instantiated objects at any given point.
 
@Maverik I stick to C for the most part. C++ adds a lot of complexities that introduces room for bugs, and tends to make the binaries larger.
 
@Maverik Which C# developer doesn't, though? lol
 
@Nitin problem with GTK and I guess QT too is the naming conventions we're used to from .net i guess.
 
12:39 PM
@Maverik But you're right, C isn't suited for RAD development that is common these days
 
Hi... Searching solution for my question.. stackoverflow.com/questions/…
Any more details to be provided then please post on the question as a comment. Thax :)
 
@AntonieBlom people who don't realise the power of asm and pointer magic :)
 
@AntonieBlom C# makes it easy enough to use native code DLLs; it's the folks who determine how the code should be written that enforce the no-native-code policies.
 
An hour of my day is spent chatting with my lead every day. I almost had to attend a 4 hour meeting. That would have been five hours accomplishing nothing. You know what I'm going to do today? Learn knockout.js. I've spent the last week doing javascript crap. GAAAHH!
 
Jez
@Billdr i had a 4 hour IT budgeting meeting this morning
 
12:41 PM
@Billdr Knockout.js is super. The only thing that made me learn some asp.net
 
@Jez I'm so sorry.
brogrammer hug
 
Jez
@Maverik i find Knockout irritating
 
but i guess i just don't have the temperament for asp.net
 
@Billdr Speaking of Javascript, I always liked making all of my code self-contained instead of relying on jQuery. Unfortunately, somebody always influences the project decisions and gets some aspect of the project to use jQuery and then there's just no benefit of writing jQuery-free code
 
@Jez what do you use instead?
 
Jez
12:42 PM
i just maintain my own data model
 
I spend more time breaking off "features" I don't want from jQuery than I do writing ui behavior.
 
coming from XAML - I find knockout to be a blessing
 
@Maverik You learned knockout.js before ASP.NET? You must be on your toes learning new technologies. I haven't even heard of knockout.js before today.
 
Yea i live on bleeding edge
I got to hear about it when ASP.Net 4 came out in beta
 
@Maverik The idea behind defining interfaces with XAML is great, except that I can't seem to re-use the XAML anywhere else.... yet another reason to use Glade + GTK/Qt :-D
 
12:44 PM
(I'm using EF6 nightly in a production environment if that tells you anything!!!)
 
@Nitin Whaddya mean, can't re-use it?
 
@Maverik You love fighting beta code?
 
oh yea
 
@KendallFrey I mean I can't take it from a Windows app and use it on a Linux Mono app
 
when it breaks, it forces me to learn something new
so I get to learn fairly frequently!
 
12:45 PM
@Billdr Often beta code gives you things that existing frameworks and libraries don't provide you with
 
Mono doesn't support XAML?
 
I'm going to put this to you guys. Is John Papa (Plural Sight) the guy to look at for learning Knockout?
 
@Nitin a very major reason why I stick with nightlies / betas
 
@KendallFrey I guess I'd have to create a WPF app to use XAML. The default UI framework that comes with MonoDevelop is GTK# (not even WinForms!)
@Maverik Do you ever have issues putting betas into production?
 
The more I hear about Mono, the more I hate it.
 
12:46 PM
@Billdr I learned knockout from its own sites walkthroughs. they were brilliant. simple and yet got me upto speed pretty quickly. I don't know who is behind that site though
 
Java is starting to look appealing. This is not good.
 
@Nitin ever? yes
 
@KendallFrey Yes! Let's write android applications together! :D
 
You can use C# can't you? I'd prefer that.
 
@Maverik With ASP.NET, getting to put betas into production typically involves half a day of figuring out dependencies and configuration.... I had to alter an existing web app to support MVC bits in it. Had to use an existing Web.Config, making sure I had just enough in there for the app to run with the mixed-approach
 
12:47 PM
@Nitin right now I'm stuck with .net 4.5 + exchange management tools combo. - 4.5 has broken certain functions in EWS API
 
For android? You can, but it's an ugly shoehorn, also the licenses are more than I'm willing to spend.
 
@Maverik Hmmm.. I've never really touched Exchange APIs
@KendallFrey Mono is pretty much an independent framework... much like Microsoft created J++ and J# without adhering to the Java spec
 
I'm in automations role in my current job
the role has thrown me into apis that I'd never have looked into otherwise
 
@KendallFrey If Java had an official IDE that was as well-built from a user-friendliness perspective as Visual Studio, it would have had more developers for its platform
@KendallFrey MonoTouch for mobile app development is one way to get things done... not sure if it's supported on Android though
 
my latest adventure is writing custom citrix ICA launcher / client
 
12:50 PM
I wish VS supported Java so bad.
 
@KendallFrey Oh, wait, MonoTouch does support Android too
 
it took me two - three weeks to get it to run because nobody on the internet seems to work with CAGs
 
There is a spec for the CLR, but I guess not the framework that uses it.
 
@Billdr They did have J#, but all it gave you was Java 1.1 and AWT - no Swing support
 
@Nitin Yo dawg, I heard you liked managed code, so I put your managed code on my managed code so you can write managed code while you write managed code.
 
Jez
12:51 PM
@Nitin The way MS are forcing everyone to Metro apps, i wouldn't be surprised if GTK# has a brighter future than Winforms
 
@Billdr +!
 
@Billdr Interesting way to explain the phenomenon that was J# :-D
 
lol @ tdwtf
Big indian and little indian
 
Big endian and little endian?
 
@Jez WinForms gained popularity for its simplicity... not all that many folks switched to WPF
 
12:52 PM
3.5 hours before my first college after 7 years!
 
@Billdr lol, i didn't get that one at first!
 
@Billdr Perhaps he's referring to a tall dark Indian guy who speaks Telugu and a short fair Indian guy who speaks Gujarati :-D
 
@Maverik Hardware architecture humor is hard to come by.
 
@Nitin as somebody who switched over.. i find WPF much better / simpler for the stuff i can pull in it compared to winforms
 
@Maverik You could think of it as motorcycles too en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_(motorcycle)
@Maverik Gah, SOChat broke the URL
 
12:54 PM
yea np i fixed it
Interesting! I like that 2006 bad boy
and the 1920 version
brb
 
@Nitin That seems like the start of a Bollywood version of "Live at the Apollo." "Dark Indians be talkin like dis, and light Indians be talking like dis."
 
@Billdr There are a lot of different languages and cultures in India... the folk in each state speak a different language
 
I've heard. I was drawing a parallel to the US, where black people have their own variation of English (Ebonics) - also, a show where comedians point out that difference. I thought it had more multi-national cache than it actually did.
 
@Billdr Yes, but that's a dialect of a language. There's the national language of India, Hindi, and people speak different dialects of it all over the country, but each state has it's own language too.
 

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