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4:00 PM
Okay, according to the response I got "Builtin open() in Python 3 (and io.open() in Python 2.7) accept unicode strings, byte strings and integers as the first arguments"
And since that's not true and io.open doesn't accept integers, it's the reason why I get a type error on 2.7
 
docs.python.org/2/library/functions.html#open only says "name is the file name to be opened", which doesn't outright say that it has to be a string, but "file name" usually carries that implication
 
@MoAli io.open does accept integers.
What do you expect us to tell you at this point? I feel like we're playing a game of 20 questions with you, and it's not very fun.
 
DSM
Do all stdlib functions which used to accept filenames now accept Paths?
 
@davidism I'm not trying to be an ass, I was just trying to understand the reasoning why I get a type error in 2.7 and not 3.
Anyway, I'll just use None rather than false for my set variables, thanks.
 
Ok, recap: io.open accepts integers in 3.X. io.open accepts integers in 2.7. Builtin open accepts integers in 3.X. Builtin open does not accept integers in 2.7. In 3.X, builtin open is the same function as io.open. In 2.7, builtin open is not the same function as io.open.
 
4:05 PM
rhubarb folks
 
@Kevin Thanks for clearing that up.
 
I know the Python community generally prefers EAFP over LBYL but maybe just this once you can do if filename: with open(filename) as file: ...
Rather than trying to catch a TypeError.
Maybe in Python 4 they'll decide None is also a valid file descriptor and then you'll be right back where you started. Having to fix your program every fifteen years.
 
@kevin You're right.
Okay, I'll use the conditional statement.
 
Mo's boss calls him up in 2032 to ask him to fix his old program. Mo's retired, but the money is too good. One last job...
I'm thinking Blade Runner meets Indiana Jones. Hologram 1980s Harrison Ford stars.
 
Haha and you'll be like "That jerk didn't use a conditional statement"
 
4:14 PM
I'm the sidekick that gives sensible advice which is promptly ignored by the dashing protagonist
 
@Kevin Too bad there are Crystal Skulls in this one, too
 
You just can't afford to play by the rules when it's a race against time against the Nazis trying to start the third Reich using the mystical power of open(None)
 
Just don't nuke(open(the_fridge))
 
Which has nominally undefined behavior but in the de facto standard implementation, gives the user unlimited cosmic power
 
museum.add(it)
 
4:18 PM
In the climax, the Nazis capture the program's original server, but Mo reveals he switched the interpreter out with Jython, so the bad guys' skulls all melt instead
 
@WayneWerner ;3 Flags flags, I love flags.....
 
That imply that I will have to redevelop the screenshot analyse. Which I will do if I find no library, but if I could save some time with an existing one, i'll use that. — T.Nel 1 min ago
When English isn't their first language. And they haven't practiced nearly enough.
 
I need to become fluent in a second language so I can look down upon people only fluent in 1.3 languages. I mean, I already do, but my satisfaction is tinged by hypocrisy.
 
Hypocrisy is just that extra bit of flavor. At least when you speak English and come from 'Murica.
 
4:26 PM
@Kevin obligatory, "where are you from?" question. - Just to familiarize myself with how common that is around you.
 
New Jersey. My entire social circle speaks only American.
 
You live in Jersey, I'm pretty sure most of them speak New Jerseyan
 
Except for {relative} who knows enough Korean to make brief conversation with the employees at Dolsot House
... I should learn Korean so we can pass secret messages to one another.
 
Can you just sum up your languages? Then I think I know 2.9 languages.
1 + 0.8 + 0.4 + 0.5 + 0.1 + 0.1
 
4:29 PM
English (native), French (4 years in high school, forgot most of it but I can reverse-engineer a lot of verbs from their latin roots), and the small subset of Japanese you can pick up from watching their cartoons
 
almost went and greeted my wife with, "Good morning, cabbage"

Then again, in French that's a term of endearment!
 
Let's say 1 and 0.1 and 0.001 respectively
 
(either that, or someone pulled one over on my Jr. High French teacher)
 
Consider yourself lucky.
 
@WayneWerner My French teacher told me the same, so it's either true or a widespread conspiracy.
 
4:31 PM
@paul23 everybody knows that the Dutch cheat when it comes to languages
 
Dutch, English, French, German (compulsory) and then when I was young I thought it was a great idea to also do Latin and (ancient) Greek for 2 years.
 
All the French people: "Ohn honh honh honh, ve have told those silly Americans that we use cabbage as a term of endearment!"
 
In the Team Fortress video "Meet the Spy", the titular character refers to his old lover as "ma petite chou fleur" which translates to "my (sweetheart|cauliflower)"
@WayneWerner Merely additional evidence that the French are master pranksters
 
rb
 
Before I start reinventing wheels: does there exist some maintained library that converts html-tables into python arrays?
 
4:41 PM
In fact, in Python3, io.open is open returns True
 
I re-discovered Fleetwood Mac. Currently listening to Go Insane. My goodness....what a track.
 
I was surprised when I tried that out. I figured there would be, I dunno, a wrapper around one of the functions or something that broke identity testing. But no.
 
Oh, no, not at all
 
@paul23 Not that I've ever found, but "Kevin was too lazy to look for more than fifteen minutes" is not strong evidence of absence
 
@Kevin They've been pulling one over on an international level.
@paul23 You could possibly do it with beautifulsoup in some kind of reasonable way
 
4:47 PM
@WayneWerner That's a good library, thanks
 
If you're parsing HTML, BS is pretty much the only way to go
anything else will probably make you very, very sad, because HTML is not very strict
 
This error is only replicable in Internet Explorer. Oh joy, what innocuous yet essential built-in function are they neglecting to implement this time?
 
Well I was about to make my "own parser" with regex :P
 
no...no...why...why own parser with regex
why so much pain in this world
why!
stop making things cry
 
4:58 PM
Well it's just for a single website :P
 
@idjaw I didn't know you refer to yourself as 'things'.
 
I keep myself as neutral as possible. Lego does not choose sides.
 
Update: it was startsWith.
 
5:10 PM
Anyone expert here in calculating triples? stackoverflow.com/questions/41702922/…
LOL
 
@MYGz reject that edit please
thx
 
Someone else vote to delete that.
 
Coincidentally, I just got another upvote on this U&L answer that parses URLs out of HTML using grep, but I do warn that it's a bad idea unix.stackexchange.com/questions/181254/…
 
Actually the question I had during that question is: "did you even open your college notes/book you are supposed to study". But I guess that's a bit too arrogant.
 
"not constructive"
deleted
only motivation to get to 20k
 
5:19 PM
that was amazing
 
I've revised my code so instead of catching all exceptions, it only catches AssertExceptions. Luckily this is in js so the "don't catch asserts" rule doesn't apply.
 
is AssertException even a thing?
 
Still not sure why Past Kevin insisted on raising exceptions at all instead of returning a string or something
@AndrasDeak No, I defined it in my code ten minutes ago.
 
I mean, pattern-wise
 
5:20 PM
@AndrasDeak cute, now change the pitch of the sound so it sounds like "omnomnomnom" we expect :P.
 
@WayneWerner People are still pounding on it :D
 
Well Python has AssertionError so the concept exists, broadly
 
didn't know that, thanks:)
 
>>> assert False
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AssertionError
>>> x = False
>>> assert x, 'Nope, {} was Falsy'.format(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AssertionError: Nope, False was Falsy
FWIW
 
why was I thinking that assertions need some module?
it's as if I still had to learn proper python:P
 
5:27 PM
Reps come back when the post is deleted?
 
mostly, yes
rep on upvoted (3<=) posts gets stuck after 60 days or something
right, brain fart
thanks, edited
 
What would time be if we did not orbit around the sun ?
 
dude?
that question is off on so many levels
 
Question from a bored mind with no work to be done ...
 
but it doesn't make any sense:P
 
5:34 PM
No it doesn't, hence why I'm asking in hopes of enlightenment
 
Why does a chicken I don't know why
 
well off to drive in this freezing rain to get lunch, rbrb
 
take care
 
Time exists regardless of the existence of stars. "How would we measure time if we did not orbit around the sun?" is more interesting. If our rogue planet still spins, we can measure days by the passage of constellations. But we won't have years.
Well "day" is a broad term because we'd be plunged into unending night, albeit one with a recognizable cycle
 
Unless there was a regular period of the stars that was more than one full rotation of the planet on its axis
Though even that is kind of arbitrary and weird if you really think about it
because it's totally possible to use math to describe a universe that does, in fact, revolve around me
 
5:40 PM
Can a spherical object have rotational momentum on more than one axis? I'm not sure if this is even a coherent question
 
not freely, no
 
In other words, is it possible for the apparent path of celestial objects over a planet to have a non-circular arc?
 
only if those objects are planets, I think
I hope I don't get scienced by Former Planet Guy
 
Depends on how the planet is moving relative to the celestial objects. If it's orbiting another planet, yeah
 
I think we can assume for this thought experiment that we're relatively free from the influence of any nearby bodies
 
5:42 PM
the planet might be highly inhomogeneous
 
Other than rotation and revolution, the only periodic phenomena that comes to mind is pulsars. Our hypothetical civilization has to invent high precision telescopy before it can invent clocks
Unless it wants to cheat with piezoelectric quartz or monitor the oscillation of Cesium or something
 
or pendulums?
 
So very cheaty.
 
though it's hard to see the pendulum's motion and make notes in the dark
 
Also if we're running with the inhomogeneous idea, then would a pendulum even work consistently if gravity varies in strength on varying parts of the planet?
 
5:46 PM
@Kevin I think it could have homogeneous gravity, but still rotate chaotically
with a proper liquidy core
dunno
 
the other problem is life. I guess if life grew out of crystals instead of something requiring... whatever the heat and light of the Sun
 
Rhubarb folks
 
you'd still need a power source, if we assume that any kind of life is non-equilibrium
probably radioactivity -> geoenergy
or chemosynthesis
 
Harness the massive power of cosmic background radiation. That's 4K right there
 
yeah, geothermal energy was my theory about how life might form
 
5:48 PM
sheesh, power is measured in watts *rolls eyes*
 
wat
 
you saw nothing
 
...t
 
I'll get my physics licence revoked with one of these:D
 
need moar power
 
6:15 PM
o.o
I read on Reddit, that lady passed away...
 
wat:(
 
aww i missed the physic chat about rotation and what not oh well.
 
I wanted to draw a comparison between myself/Andras/Marcus and the id/ego/superego by casting myself as the one that says "here is an outlandish thing I want", Andras as the one that says "here is a way to get that", and Marcus as the one that issues corrections after the fact, but I don't know enough about psychology to know whether that's accurate and/or humorous.
 
cabage
 
6:30 PM
Needs to be bigger.
 
yo, i have a question, does anyone use octal dump, and for what ?
 
@Danilo on unix ?
 
No one uses octal dump. It's unclear why it was ever created.
 
on general in real life. And what would you get with octal dumping instead of hex dumping ?
really ?
 
@Danilo this is the Python room
 
6:36 PM
@davidism yes, and i am trying to make a unversal dumping script, so i though if anyone uses octal dumping, then probably in some near-far future so will i :D
 
No, not reallly, that was incredible sarcasm. Of course someone uses it, it exists.
 
I appreciated that reference.
 
i though that maybe it was a remnant of some earlier generations, but i was curious what advantages does is have in comparison to binary dump or hex dump.
@AndrasDeak ahahaha, that was awesome, to bad it was removed. OP please re instate it :D
 
I don't want to try the taste of the highbrow audience here
 
6:40 PM
Aw I missed it
 
@MarcusS Karma's a yam isn't it ..
 
See what it feels like, @MarcusS? (Not that I, personally, feel it, since I can see message history.)
 
Was just about to say, "So that's what that's like..."
 
i just imagined octagonal ****
 
6:44 PM
For maximum future-proofing, support arbitrary bases from binary to hexadecimal and beyond
The only limit is your imagination and the number of available unicode code points
 
I was going to remark on the maximum number of characters to be used as digits...
 
Base-phi dump or bust
 
When I learned about different bases, my mind kind of went, "Woah"
 
oh, Marcus, due to the way human brains work, I subconsciously blame you for every Project Euler challenge that needs googling
 
I kind of stopped PE when I learned that a bunch of them weren't actually programming challenges, just math
 
6:47 PM
blasphemy
 
yeah, only yesterday I did one where my program was just "print(answer)"
 
There are a couple in the below-tens you can do with just paper and pencil.
 
ahaha God i love this chat, so much humour. But that Euler , i hated him so much in college , he even put some math in art.
 
i find myself doing brute force in PE for sub 200s
 
this was a sixty-something
 
6:48 PM
there was one about some kind of numbers
 
Try the problems 340+ beyond
 
@Danilo Leonhard really doesn't deserve that, he was an amazing dude
 
@MarcusS i finally got around to doing that stupid silver coin one u recommended me... That one gave me many sleepless nights wondering
 
You solved it?
 
apparently there are a heck of a lot more PE problems than there were um... 5 years ago?
 
6:49 PM
I wouldnt say I solved it
I would say that i cheated
 
I was going to say, that problem took me over a month to do the first time I saw it
 
I used a mix of brute force and assumptions and luck played a role in it, I don't even think it's correct...
 
Dec 1 '16 at 20:27, by Kevin
"Find the first four bouncy cling shrimp numbers, whose definition only exist in a safe in my basement"
 
@AndrasDeak yes he was and i agree, but the teacher who though Construction materials, static and dynamics of building had really bad way of teaching Euler :D
 
how can you even teach Euler?
 
6:50 PM
Many problems in the first 100 or so can be brute forced or done on paper
 
that was the one I was thinking of
 
@MarcusS do you have another headache problem you recommend ?
 
@MooingRawr 361, 415
361 is probably one of the craziest problems we have
 
oh joy >.> I know what I'm going to ask santa this year ;3
 
it's one of those things where even when you solve it, you have no idea why it works
I mean, technically you can run through it all and prove each piece -- it's just hard to do before you get the answer
 
6:53 PM
I'm reading it, and I'm already wiki/googling half of the terms... ><. I will let you know when I finish it. ETA 2020(?)
 
just in time for py3
 
The great thing about 361: You don't need Google for it -- it's good for background, but it won't help with this particular problem
 
2020 is impressive. Most of my PE solutions wouldn't finish until the year 2**(2**100)) or so
 
> Find the last 9 digits of
 
Find the last n digits -> find the answer mod 10^n
 
6:56 PM
Oh that's what I assumed but I didn't think was true.
 
Only takes 10**9 guesses to brute force :-)
 
Hey man, our CPU are only getting stronger and stronger, we will hit a cap one day but today is not that day.
 
Hey guys. how u doin? I have a question. When i use socket.send() it won't send data until socket is closed. why and how can i fix this to send data immidiatly?
 
Oh wait we can use GPU on it since it's just simple math
 
@Matarata TCP_NODELAY
 
6:57 PM
@AnttiHaapala i used thi "self.serversocket.setsockopt(socket.IPPROTO_TCP, socket.TCP_NODELAY, 1)" but it didn't work
 
@Matarata but you need to do it for the actual connection socket, not the server socket (the server socket is the one that you listen to)
 
@AnttiHaapala oh yes. let me test it
 
@Matarata presumably you can also do socket.flush(), if that's your thing
 
yeah, that should work too
or then not... idk?
also remember that you'd want to use sendall, not send.
send is about never correct.
 
@AnttiHaapala ok
 
7:04 PM
if you use send, you must inspect the return value and send more data...
 
@WayneWerner Showing you this one for a very particular reason >:] projecteuler.net/problem=470
 
@AnttiHaapala That worked. I was using it for my serversocket which was wrong. Thanks alot
 
awww
can we have Rabbit post alot here?
 
7:09 PM
@Matarata see, if you had named your serversocket as "sock" say, I'd have said "strange, dunno, shrug"
 
@AnttiHaapala lol correct
 
@MarcusS if it has one of those letter-Ms-lying-on-its-side, it has to be hard:P
 
haha
480 is a little less mathy
and the answer is an actual phrase relevant to the theme
 
@MarcusS I'm tempted to make a website solely for 361. Have the whole stupid code laid out and generate the next T9999999999999999999999999999, and just call it a day xD
 
@MarcusS oh that looks like fun
when I'm fed up with googly math problems, I might skip ahead
 
7:12 PM
@MooingRawr You'd need an awful lot of memory
 
@MarcusS yup ;3 .... or I actually sit down and figure out a solution for it lol
 
but how I view the site, If I do it, other people can benefit from it xD
 
they shouldn't
you are explicitly asked not to disclose your solutions
 
Never reveal the Wu Tang Project Euler secret
 
7:17 PM
@AndrasDeak It's a look up table though, is that still disclosing my solution even if it's partial ?
 
??
oh, I see what you mean, I didn't realize you were still talking about your original website idea:P
 
meaning all the site is, is just 1 and 0 following the guide that they gave you
what were you talking about
I'm lost now... thanks lol
 
7 mins ago, by MooingRawr
@MarcusS yup ;3 .... or I actually sit down and figure out a solution for it lol
 
Oh. I haven't gotten a wave of motivation to actually do that yet.
 
I thought you were talking about solving it proper, then disseminating that to help others
 
7:20 PM
Not enough cute animals / anime stuff on my news feed to motivate me to actually think of a solution.
I believe that if you do give your solution to other people, Marcus would phase in from thin air and slap you in the face with an Euler spiral style wipe.
 
awww, I realized that you guys might all be calling him You-ler:D
I met a British colleague not so long ago, who called him You-ler, which made me wonder
 
ewww-ler, I think, with a funny way of pronouncing 'eww' -jk-
 
well i Serbia we call him Oy-ler... probably depends on vowel pronunciation per country.
 
I call him Oy-ler, with the traditional shitty Hungerman accent
 
aaaand Oy-ler for the wiiiiin! :d
 
7:25 PM
Yeah, oyler/oiler -- used to say "you-ler" though before I actually heard someone say it out loud
 
Edmonton Eulers
 
but as he was swiss and swiss have some germanic in their language base, maybe Oy-ler would be trues to the form, since eu in germany is sounded 'oy' - of sorts.
 
I bought a Nespresso latte machine, I am lazy
 
@AnttiHaapala which kind?
 
im curious does Nespresso machine change the taste ?
 
7:29 PM
lattissima touch
so now, if I want to drink coffee, I need to order capsules online from Nestlé...
 
that's a delonghi, not a nespresso
wait what?
 
Just wondering, has anyone used Stripe / Taxjar combo?
 
Nespresso is delonghi? Or is it like "nexus", which is all sorts of brands under the hood?
 
I bought a rocket espresso machine last summer and got a grinder for Christmas. I'm all set for a while :P
 
I'm thoroughly confused
 
7:33 PM
@AndrasDeak delonghi is the manufacturer of this unit... DL is rather like LG to Nexus 4
 
OK, I'm less confused then:)
thanks
 
it is even so that the Nespresso hotline will be the warranty contact.
 
I had no idea it worked like this
 
I call them when I have a problem with my machine, they will send a repairman to fix it, or a send new unit by mail or so
 
sounds European:P
 
7:35 PM
so, warranty is voided if I use any other pods except the ones made by Nestlé :D
 
obviously:D
but nespresso has a very wide and interesting range of pods, so that should be fine
 
Yeah isn't it low price for the machine but high prices for the pods?
 
does this exclude third-party refillable pods?
 
Coffee DRM? :-I
 
the thing is, because the mechanism punctures the pod, if the foil in copycats is of different strength I can see it plausibly breaking the machine
 
7:37 PM
im curious does anyone uses terminal to test the speed and valiablity of function before entering it in script
 
yes...
though unittests would be the proper thing to do instead...
 
dat onebox, yam it
 
Nah, I enter it into the script and then test the speed and valiability of the script. Opening up a terminal is an unnecessary step.
 
nice :P
@AndrasDeak but they're kind of not that easy :D
 
what do you mean?
 
@AnttiHaapala well that's shite
 
@AnttiHaapala I think I have the same one (or at least, a similar model) -- tasty stuff
 
my in-laws have a different kind, made of black plastic
it works fine if you ignore the fact that you can inevitably put less coffee into it
 
@MarcusS that coffee from the linked pic? :P
 
7:41 PM
of course there it was either no ground coffee, or ground coffee in those refillable pods
 
@AnttiHaapala No, the machine
 
I am yet to try the lattes
 
lattes do that
I'm not even sorry
this one looks like what they have, it has mixed reviews though...
 
my friend's startup has got a nice deal, they've got a super cheap office in the GE Healthcare "Health Innovation Village" in Helsinki; but what is even better, it includes all hot coffee that you can drink in the café downstairs...
 
GE Healthcare and unlimited coffee. Admiral Ackbar approves.
 
7:46 PM
so basically, using Helsinki prices as the guide they probably drink barista-made espressos worth twice the amount of the rent of office monthly.
 
> Helsinki
Haven't seen that name since playing Atlantica Online... xD
thanks for the random trigger down memory lane
 
Ah, thanks to a bureaucratic SNAFU, the number of useless meetings I have to attend per week has reduced by half. Nice that the system works for me, for once.
 
@Kevin deducing from available information, you only go to average 2 useless meetings per week?
 
Typically yeah
 
wow lucky you
 
7:48 PM
Hi there, if I correctly understood, the main difference between a bytes object and a bytearray object is that bytes are immutable (eg I can't do bytes[0] = '4') while bytearray are. Am I right?
 
it could be worse
@Trucy yes
 
It could be complete meeting saturation. Come in to work, attend the meeting, leave work, repeat forever.
 
@AnttiHaapala Thanks for your answer, it's much clearer now :)
 
Meeting supersaturation: attending multiple meetings at once, either using online conferencing software or a convincing simulacrum of yourself made out of straw
"Completely motionless" is my default meeting behavior anyway so it's easy to make a lifelike replica
 
XD
You should make an effort to become a possitive influence during those meetings! - or so I am told.
Bring cake to each
 
7:53 PM
I don't have a lot of positivity to give, so I'm going to be hoarding it for my own selfish purposes.
 
Debating with myself if I go now through this freezing cold weather to get breakfast for tomorrow.. Or if I could wake up tomorrow at 7 to bike the single kilometer to the nearest shop.
It's really cold, a -2 degrees Celsius.
 
@paul23 wat. -2. cold?
can't imagine more pleasant winter weather.
 
Yea I know you Finns are robust like the telephone. But I'm not that strong.
 
Check your cold resistance privilege
 

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