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2:00 PM
I'll be lenient if I can tell they're doing it in a winking sort of way where they know they're damning themselves with faint praise
 
I tend not to enjoy movies that recieve Oscars or whatever they are called
 
I had shared this in facebook in 2012: "Hmm... once upon a time... medalspercapita.com/#medals-per-capita:all-time";
 
"Our film is better than getting punched in the nads"
 
I didn't remember even reading that page or even knowing that information before. Facebook remembers better than me
 
user559633
2:02 PM
you really love finland
 
some exceptions exist and are usually "best animated film"
 
user559633
or the version of it that you can create with selective info
 
@tristan I don't :D
 
user559633
bullshit
 
I suspect a lot of awards are actually just virtue-signalling from everyone involved. "I nominate this long and boring movie because then everyone will know how sophisticated I am"
 
2:02 PM
which I take to mean "an animated film you can watch with your kids without going insane"
 
@tristan you should understand the common Finn though
they should grow some skin.
 
user559633
a more terse swede?
 
user559633
finnish people don't have skin? that must be terrible! :O
 
@tristan they do... but...
 
They've got skin, but they need more. They're trying to pioneer in the artificial meat industry, and producing cruelty-free skin cultures would be a leap in the right direction.
 
2:04 PM
wat
 
user559633
referral :)
 
@AndrasDeak Of course now we know that Deckard is a replicant
 
@Kevin industries that throw huge awards parties for their own product are definitely not up their own rears
 
@JGreenwell Yes, you'll only go insane in the following week after the thousandth rendition of the movie's song by your children, who haven't quite grasped the concept of "being on-key"
 
2:08 PM
of course, if my wife is in earshot - I am forbidden to comment on any awards show about TV or Movies
@Kevin currently this is the theme song from the original Pokemon or TMNT
 
Serious question: if I am working on someone else's code base and want to add something to make it work better, but they don't know about the library, how can it be justified?
 
is it more efficent, scalable, or optimized - if so I'd just reference that in the change notes/docs/logs
 
If you're not taking over the code then presumably you need to convince them as to why the library is better
 
@JGreenwell distract them with Let It Go
 
they don't like that movie
 
2:10 PM
Library's got books, innit
 
user559633
how to make a movie that's well received by "awards": starring old people in a movie about the holocaust/disabilities/nothing/being sad in the mid 20th century and have the adversity be racism/sexism/some sort of societal shittiness
 
@JGreenwell :O
 
@RobertGrant yes, and many of them are about Pokemon and TMNT :P :)
 
@JGreenwell mostly, the problem is that it takes forever to load the client initially because it lacks optimziation so it sends tons and tons of resources. Not a problem on production because resources are cached, but on dev, it's slow.
 
that's actually true and gets them reading so I'm okay with it though
 
2:12 PM
Anyone here that enjoys ragging on the Oscars ought to watch this season of Bojack Horseman because like half of the show is dedicated to revealing how empty and meaningless it is
 
user559633
@corvid just add it and move on with your life. it's frontend JS
 
ah, so "this will help you make more efficient use of dev time" should be good (but runs into political problems I assume)
 
user559633
it is my life ambition to befriend an elderly gay couple who both have the name "oscar" so i can watch the oscars with the oscars
 
The Oscars are real and serious and anyone who says otherwise is just jelly because they haven't won one.
 
I just noticed the new season yesterday so I'm definitely going to watch it
 
2:13 PM
The film industry is a good example of the Rob Principle: for a given salary, the better looking the people an in industry, the easier the job.
Modelling being at the extreme end of that; acting not far behind
 
@tristan and after that you can die? :D
 
Management consulting also pretty far along that scale
 
user559633
i'm already dead inside, so what difference does mortality make?
 
Just increases the hassle - feeding, exercise etc.
 
"Bucket list of Tristan Fisher: 1 item(s)
- Watch Oscars with Oscars at Oscars'."
 
2:15 PM
lol
 
I appreciate that apostrophe, Antti.
 
As do I
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala += be publicly disavowed by the "Buffalo Wild Wings" franchise restaurant chain
 
anyone watch Craig Ferguson's stand up? He describes his job as being paid to play make-believe like a 4 year old boy
 
It's not just many people called Oscar; at least two of them own the place you're watching it at
 
user559633
2:15 PM
with the Oscars
 
user559633
maybe bring a nice dip they haven't tried before.
 
@tristan the Oscars would mean that their surname is Oscar
 
This party sounds Wilde
 
user559633
no, their first name has to be Oscar
 
user559633
we can joke about how they've been on the earth so long and have never had a dill-based dip
 
2:16 PM
perhaps they are: mr. Oscar Oscar with his spouse mr. Oscar Oscar.
 
user559633
No.
 
user559633
je refuse
 
dill-based dip?
what's that? dill with hint of sour cream?
 
shakes head
 
You're not supposed to say "no" during life goal brainstorming sessions. There are no bad ideas!
 
user559633
2:17 PM
sour cream
dill
onion
parsley
 
Just nod pleasantly and make a mental note to discard everyone's suggestions once the meeting is over, like a regular person.
 
that's sour-cream-based dip
 
nods
 
user559633
this is my bucket list. stop making it ridiculous. watch the oscars with the elderly gay couple that i become best friends with that i call "the oscars". bring a nice veggie dip.
 
Bonus points: one of them is actually called Oscar; the other is a grouch and knows it
 
2:19 PM
but dill-based dip means that the base of the dip is dill or dill juice.
 
user559633
no. both are named oscar.
 
Alternative ending: one is actually called Oscar, and the other is a plastic replica of an Oscar award that he thinks he married
 
like a "green smoothie"
 
user559633
you're free to fork this bucket list, but it is closed to writes from non-repo owners.
 
user559633
there is a lot of dill, okay?
 
user559633
2:21 PM
also, .dll kind of looks like .dill
 
THANK YOU!
HOW DID SOMEONE NOT MAKE THAT JOKE!?
 
Are YOU in a DLL PICKLE?
 
.dll pickles
 
dlls cause me great pain in my day job, so I try to avoid thinking about them whenever possible.
 
user559633
2:23 PM
I KNOW RIGHT OH MAN I AM BREAKING INTO FRESH COMEDIC GROUNDS LIKE A BARISTA THAT'S KIND OF AMUSING IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES WITH AN APPROPRIATE TOPIC
 
Side bar: Who's going to PyCon? @Rob? @JRich? @Intrepid? @JonC?
 
combining .dlls and pickle sounds like about the most trouble you could get in
 
@Ffisegydd Not booked - Still on the just about possible list.
 
Also @davidism can we modify sopython to list PyCon UK on the front page now?
 
Yeah, make a PR replacing it and I'll deploy it.
 
2:24 PM
Time to write a shenanigans-based SO question
 
@davidism Awesome, I shall do that this eve.
 
@Ffisegydd also not booked; have to do important things but they won't take long then I'll look again
 
@RobertGrant Clearly we need a Shenanigans Docs Topic.
 
user559633
i want to make friends with someone that pickles so i can invite him/her over to netflix and dill
 
2:25 PM
:D
I like your nonspecific sexuality; no matter what someone assumes about you, they'll laugh!
 
Everyone laughs at Tristan's sexuality.
 
user559633
i shouldn't have tested that the whiskey stones don't change the flavor of each of my whiskeys last night.
 
I read bad things about whisky stones. Do you find they work well?
(Sorry, OT from your joke)
 
Now I'm just picturing some random dude wearing a "Hello, my name is Everyone" nametag, just laughing at Tristan while everyone around looks awkwardly
 
I'm going to assume that "whiskey stones" is some kind of disease.
 
user559633
2:28 PM
@RobertGrant well, i used them last night on five or six triples and i feel like shit today, so no, C- would not recommend whisky stones
 
The problem is that whisky stones don't change anything.
 
@MorganThrapp that's what I read - they don't actually make them as cold as ice
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd it's when after drinking your stones don't work for...wait, how do people make flowers again?
 
I've got a set, but they don't actually do a damn thing. Except hit me in the face while I'm trying to drink the last bit in the glass.
 
Willing to sacrifice ♪♪
 
2:29 PM
@RobertGrant They make it slightly colder than room temperature. Maybe 2-3F.
 
@MorganThrapp yes I heard that they do that :)
 
user559633
human reproduction rituals confuse me
 
I'd probably prefer just putting the glass in the fridge for a bit if I particularly want it to be colder
 
whiskey stones get an F from me
 
user559633
yeah, they don't really chill the whiskey and they're stone in a glass that you don't want to scratch
 
2:30 PM
Although I actually just shove some ice or tapwater in
 
user559633
:|
 
frosted glass is still nice if one doesn't want ice
 
Yeah, that's what I do. I always have a rocks glass in the freezer.
 
I have that, a pint glass, and a cocktail glass.
 
2:31 PM
@MorganThrapp @RobertGrant I was the recipient of an overly-long rant from an engineer friend who was FURIOUS at the scam that is whisky stones. Lack of state-change, and an overly long explanation of the heat capacity of the type of stone convinced me.
 
That makes sense
 
One of those "Ok man, I get it, you want some ice then.", and then another 5 minutes of it, repeat.
 
user559633
lack of state change? did he expect the stones to change to a gaseous state?
 
If they did they'd absorb a lot more heat
 
Latent heat, feck yeah!
 
2:32 PM
no, but that was his point. without the state change, they can't really absorb much heat at all. they're basically pointless. hence why, y'know, ice.
 
See also: why doesn't all the water in a kettle disappear into steam when it hits 100 degrees
 
Plus, honestly, most whisky benefits from a touch of ice water to open it up a little.
Otherwise you're just tasting burn.
 
user559633
heathens
 
Especially if it's cask strength.
 
Yeah if it's cask strength you'd be crazy not to add something
 
2:35 PM
Yep, get the alcohol down to 25-30%.
 
or have no sense of taste or cause you were dared to take a pull
 
I have 3 bottles of whisky from work from the last 6 months. Still barely touched it.
 
I got a bottle of Bunnahabhain 18 Year for my birthday, it's lovely.
 
I haven't actually been drinking much whisky lately, I've been getting more into tequila. Which brands me as a heathen, I know.
 
Whisky just isn't that nice.
 
user6568562
2:37 PM
Cabbage, Senseis
 
I just love how weird and vegital it is.
 
@Ffisegydd wishes he was an RO for the kick
 
I've only had one tequila that didn't make me gag, can't remember what it was.
 
It's not actually delicious like hot chocolate, but it is a good drink
 
user6568562
Come on, some Whiskeys I've tried were smooth as smooth can be. Little independant distilleries
 
2:38 PM
Whisky is very nice. I also admit to the "craziness" that Rob highlights.
 
whisky is a huge range of flavours.
 
Mmmhmmm thinks
 
But if your entry point is Bells or something similar which for a lot of people it is, then yeah, it's pretty offputting.
 
@Withnail Give Anejo tequila a try, it's aged for a while so it's close to whisky in taste.
 
user6568562
I thought it was some kind of grains not flowers
 
2:39 PM
righto - rbrb.
 
Whyte & Mackay's my sort of base-level drinkin' whisky.
 
1) Buy him a drink
2) Add two straws to it, and each of you drink from one
 
Whisky and the Tramp.
 
(Sorry, spoilers)
 
user6568562
Whiskey with ice cold bubbly water get rid of any unwanted aftertaste.
 
2:41 PM
That's a paddlin'
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd Sometimes I forget why I hate you, then you remind me. Thanks.
 
Hey, scotch and soda is a decent enough drink with a cheap scotch.
 
user559633
How dare you not appreciate the same flavors that I do?
 
@tristan I watched your entire stream for 5 hours last night. I told you when it wasn't working. I sat and waited while you had a break. But sure, whatever.
 
user6568562
You know, after a couple of cups, any alcohol mixed with any cold drink is acceptable
 
2:42 PM
Friendship over.
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd Haha aww, now I feel bad
 
Actually he didn't watch all of it
 
user559633
sometimes i don't know when it's a dry sense of humor and when i've actually offended someone :X
 
He had it on, but he was also doing other stuff
 
user6568562
He's a multithreader, don't take it against him
 
2:43 PM
That's true, I actually tried to watch as little as possible, but I knew that if that "Number of viewers" went from 2 to 1, you'd probably end up doing something drastic.
 
(Did you know Twitch also streams from the viewers' webcams?)
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd Yeah, I think it peaked at like 6. FTL seems way more winning for a stream option
 
I know because there were definite stretches where I was talking, tristan might or might not have been responding on the video, and no-one else was
 
I definitely enjoy DOOM more.
 
user6568562
@tristan Maybe you didn't show enough cleavage
 
2:44 PM
Next stream some awesome CS skills
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd To watch or play? I vastly enjoy DOOM more to play, but I'd imagine that FTL is more fun to watch because motion
 
user6568562
Yes, live coding I'd watch the yam out of it
 
user559633
@randomhopeful Yeah, that seems to be the easy path.
 
@tristan Both.
 
I don't get jwt authentication :\
 
2:45 PM
I mean Counterstrike but sure, coding :)
 
user559633
@RobertGrant If you're serious, let me know when you want to watch and I'll stream a thing
 
I don't find FTL that entertaining to either play or watch.
 
@corvid it's OAuth for javascripters
 
user559633
I'm going to make it a standing appointment of 1pm on Sundays for regular streams, but can pepper some more in
 
user6568562
@Robert Oh, that's the second best kind of CS
 
user559633
2:46 PM
@Ffisegydd yeah, the random chance determining success more than anything else is draining to me
 
@Ffisegydd sometimes I think it's great, but it is stressful
 
why did I stick to Python 2 for so long, 3 makes text analysis so much easier
 
3 makes everything easier. Except for making bugs
 
@corvid it's worth understanding OAuth in this order: Client Credentials, Authorisation Flow, JWT
 
@RobertGrant So, does it just go to the server, get decoded, serialized to the current user, and then continue to subsequent routes as a current user?
 
2:58 PM
Honestly I'd learn the different flows
 
It goes to the server to get an access token, then you use that in your Authorization header as a Bearer token
(Something like that)
Or does is it actually the bearer token? Now I wish I'd ever used this form of OAuth
 
@JGreenwell every week there are 5 questions about "I am doing NLP, what are these u'...'?"
 
user6568562
>For example, a server could generate a token that has the claim "logged in as admin" and provide that to a client. The client could then use that token to prove that they are logged in as admin.

Wikipedia"s entry for JWT
 
and ... "I get 'ascii' codec cannot encode blabla"
 
3:01 PM
Yes I think I'm right the first time
 
@AnttiHaapala to be fair I had to use 2.7 until this year (March) cause that's how long it took me (and others...mostly others) to convince the Board
 
we should make a photocopiable petition with all of our names
 
user6568562
I have yet to get SO formatting through my head : /
 
and I usually flag those as duplicates
granted I flag like 90% of the questions in NLP and NLTK
 
so that anyone can copy it and just change the title page
 
user559633
3:03 PM
@RobertGrant I looked into Human: Fall Flat. I'll pick it up when it's sub $10
 
Cool!
 
@PM2Ring The More You Know♒★
 
What about a livestream from your phone's front camera of your reactions as you play Pokemon:Go?
 
cause they are mostly "what do I use to this type of analysis" or more often "I don't know statistics or NLP but need to do this - can someone write the code?"
 
user559633
$15 for open-world/sandbox is against my ethics
 
3:04 PM
but everyone seems to upvote and answers anyway :\
 
@tristan GTA5?
 
just because NLP is hard does not mean the bar for good questions is lower
rant end
 
@tristan that game reminds me of the excellent Truck Dismount
 
user6568562
@Robert Hahaha, you summed up everything wrong with humanity usage of the internet.
 
why do some applications send specific templates from the back end, but are otherwise single-page oriented?
 
3:07 PM
@KevinMGranger We get a few types of snake around here, some of them highly venomous, so it's nice to know which ones are (relatively) harmless. Pythons are generally welcome visitors since they are great at dealing with rodent pests. Here's one that spent the winter in our rock wall a few years ago.
 
I'd eat that
 
user559633
@RobertGrant I think that's worth it because it has experience/scenarios that it builds for you
 
@AnttiHaapala We need a SO Python wiki article about Python 3.
7 hours ago, by PM 2Ring
Do we have a "Why you should use Python 3" doc, apart from the brief note in What tutorial should I read?
 
user559633
@RobertGrant I haven't played pokemans. Is it enjoyable?
 
user6568562
@tristan Go isn't worth it. I felt it was a Farmville that make you walk anywhere. But I enjoyed Emerald and XY. Their roms are free, now, I think.
 
3:14 PM
On the other hand, I've never played Pokemon before and I'm digging Go.
 
@tristan never played it
@tristan yeah just kidding - even if it were pure open world, it'd be a ridiculously well made one
 
user6568562
@Morgan I did forget that the city you live in is an important factor for Go. I retract my opinion to "it depends".
 
user559633
 
user559633
from the same developer
 
@randomhopeful Yeah, very true. The town I live in is a college town, and it's completely full with pokestops.
There's also a ton of people out playing it, so it's fun running into others and comparing pokedexes or whatnot.
 
user559633
3:21 PM
@RobertGrant hah, yeah, and to make it grweat, i'd either have to fake my geo, or "hey everyone, i'm here in winnipeg to capture a rare pikachu"
 
The only place that is good for pokestops near me is the college because there are a bunch of pieces of "art". :P
 
user559633
pokedexes and pokestops. being in college has changed since i was a young lad
 
@tristan I just saw your confused emoji on github :)
 
user6568562
I would've enjoyed if there were Poke grill&bar .
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Yeah, I kind of don't know what he's even after
 
3:27 PM
I'd get it if it were called Brokemon, and had an en-UK alternative called Blokemon
 
Does anyone know a good example of an informal software design document?
 
Actual programming chat: I've long had the viewpoint that the only tutorial anyone really needs is the official documentation, but this weekend I hypocritically googled "asyncio tutorial" after boggling at the monolith that is docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio.html.
 
I feel my manager should have some idea of what I'm doing.
 
@QuestionC there's that 37signals one
@Kevin if official documentation is just "API docs" then I disagree
 
user559633
Oh whoops, I meant to add the emoji on his issue, not on your comment @RobertGrant
 
3:29 PM
@Kevin did you manage to find a good writeup?
 
@tristan lol I did wonder
I thought you were just messing with me
 
Lots of the complicated APIs eventually get HOWTO pages in the docs.
 
I place blame mostly on the fact that the docs are still a fairly rough draft. At one point, they use the word "completition" which I'm fairly sure isn't real.
 
@RobertGrant Googling for "37signals design document" returns a page telling me to not do it.
 
user559633
Yeah, sorry, removed it. He just launches into "yeah so i have this problem with the project in that the same syntax i use for a different library doesn't work here"
 
3:30 PM
@Kevin welcome to Futures, bra. You don't have the mindvolts to comprehend async made syncable
 
@davidism Nothing that totally cleared up my confusion. The ones I read assumed that I had a more comprehensive starting knowledge than I really did. "If you've used Promises in javascript, this shouldn't be too hard...", but I've never used Promises, so I'm up Shit Creek.
 
@tristan Not a problem at all
 
Go through the Tornado tutorial, then apply the knowledge to asyncio, maybe?
 
@Kevin Your view may have been a result of the oddly excellent python documentation. Nobody I know was able to learn OpenGL without a tutorial.
 
Hey I had the last word here. By which I mean the discussion moved elsewhere.
 
3:32 PM
@QuestionC I wasn't able to learn it with one either. (At least without switching to C++.)
There needs to be a good modern opengl tutorial for Python.
 
I work at a college with 3 pokestops and have kids which make it a worthwhile way to get out of the house and go exploring/hunting but if single and no group to do it with - I wouldn't recommend Go
 
user6568562
All these indecipherable terms, you're using, reminded me that I need to get back to learning. See you later, everybody [ :
 
@davidism that would be cool
 
Pessimistic option: I only had that view because I settled into a comfortable rut where I didn't need to learn anything truly novel. So all of the times where I read through docs and thought "just give me an example I can run please" were so far in the distant past, I could no longer recall ever experiencing them.
 
Also cool: an easy playground to get going in
 
3:34 PM
Like, no duh if I can read the documentation for a function call and think "yep this all makes sense"
 
@Kevin for learning the concepts of futures and promises, there's some good C++ examples if you know C++
 
I know enough C++ to write functional C++ programs. So, 20% minimum.
 
I've never used, like, template metaframes or whatever.
 
I don't think you'll need to know that but looking at the examples now they use a fair amount of fancy C++11 stuff, so it might be more confusing. Disregard
 
3:36 PM
@KevinMGranger Thanks, I'll take a look.
 
@Kevin nah, look at this instead. Examples! tornadoweb.org/en/stable/guide/async.html
 
Thanks, I'll take a look at this instead.
 
Surely javascript docs would be easier than C++ for futures and promises
 
user559633
the javascripts docs would just tell you to get a chain of libraries
 
Although I think they're the same thing
 
3:39 PM
then point to a second pair of libraries that are similar
 
Basically, think of futures/promises as reified control flow: they give you a way, in code, to compose code that happens in response to getting a value. But in this case, you don't necessarily depend on when you'll get that value
 
Instead of assigning to a value, you assign to a callback, and your code blocks at the point where you first use the value of the callback
(Total guess, and probably different for everything that says it's as promise or a future)
 
Every language seems to kind of jumble up how they do promises / futures and what they call them
 
Right now I'm just confused about when I should be using generators / coroutines / futures / tasks. Every function in asyncio takes exactly one of these and I can never guess which one it is from context, so I'm making a lot of trips to the docs
 
3:42 PM
I just reassigned str to "aaa"
is there a way for me to reassign it back to the str function?
 
reset your python is the easiest
that is, exit()
 
(Tasks are like (Futures are like (Coroutines are like (Generators are like (functions) on steroids) on steroids) on steroids) on steroids)
5
 
lol. Nice
 
I'm running in a playbook environment. If it's possible to do it without reseting it would be nice.
 
user559633
In a playbook? e.g. Ansible?
 
3:44 PM
("On steroids" is defined to mean the difference between the subject and the thing it's being defined against)
 
@LyubenTodorov I think str = __builtins__.str will do it. Or maybe that only works in the interactive environment.
Worth giving it a shot, regardless.
 
what is a playbook?
 
@Kevin That worked and it's what i was after! thanks.
 
I understand "coroutines are like generators" but then I write code like
async def bar():
    yield 42
And it tells me SyntaxError: 'yield' inside async function and I get confused because aren't you supposed to yield stuff in a coroutine?
 
your programming sports stuff? I've always thought that was interesting but gave it up once I realized I make no friends when arguing "fantasy football" using real statistics - or I make too many
 
3:47 PM
Or hang on, is "a function tagged with the async keyword" not the same thing as a coroutine? I guess I need to add a fifth category to the generator/coroutine/future/task quartet.
 
user559633
square should write "final fantasy football"
 
Mario soccer was fun so why not?
 
I suspect my question is the kind of question that, if someone else was asking it, I would think "you have a fundamental lack of understanding about the basic principles of the thing you're trying to learn, and answering this would only confuse you further unless you drop everything and go back to square one so we can start with a stable foundation"
 
I get the feeling that this guy is a cargo-culter: stackoverflow.com/questions/38833054/… It sure looks like he doesn't know much about regex syntax, so I assume he just copy-pasted that regex from somewhere.
 
str = type("a") ?
 
3:50 PM
@Kevin I don't know how to explain why, but you can either await another coroutine, or return a final value.
async def is the new form of asyncio.coroutine, they're conceptually the same
 
Thanks, that's helpful.
 
it's regex - all regex questions get answered so I always suspect cargo culting
 
This makes me suspect that coroutines are a special class of generator which need to yield specific values that make sense to the asyncio event loop, and Python prevents you from using your own yields because humans can't reliably form the return values that the loop could understand.
 
user559633
i suspect it's just a type/py_object, so why not just carry the result via a link
 
@LyubenTodorov And now you've learned the valuable lesson that using the name of a built-in thing for your own variable name is not a Good Idea. :)
 
user559633
3:57 PM
it's a great idea
 
@KevinMGranger I'll pay that.
 
@Kevin docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio-task.html "Things a coroutine can do:"
 
Pay? Also, type("") is shorter
 
type('') is "thinner"
Maybe
''
""
 
async def uses await, @coroutine uses yield from
 
3:58 PM
vowel = type("a")
 
Well, in a non-monospaced font :D
 
Using non-monospaced fonts in a language where indentation is significant!? Now I've seen everything
 

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