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11:00 AM
I'm only a beginner to Python ;)
Thanks though. I know prints can be very useful
 
That's all you need! It's not as though your code has bugs, is it bra?
 
My code? Bugs? NEVER! I am absolutely perfect!
;P
 
They're not bugs, they're unintended features.
 
They're not bugs, they're un intended features.
And I totally didn't have to edit that twice to get it right.
 
they're unindented features
 
11:02 AM
:D
 
Because I'm perfect and never forget how to do something.
@AndrasDeak Pfft! XD
 
Ah lovely, you'll fit right in.
 
yeah we're all perfect
 
Pun indented?
Hmm, Slytherin's programming language is easy; Python. Hufflepuff: JavaScript. But what would Ravenclaw and Gryffindor's be?
 
Gryffindor should be ASM
you have to be very brave for that
 
11:06 AM
I was thinking about Swift.
 
I'd imagine Ravenclaw would be C or Haskell.
 
I've never seen Swift, so I'll allow it:P
 
Swift's a scripting language compiled by Obj-C. It's weird and verbose enough to screw the rules and still get points
 
I thought it was an apple thing
 
I'm not sure Gryffindor would target such price-exclusive hardware, though. I'm afraid they might be Java.
 
11:07 AM
oh, it is an apple thing
 
It IS an apple thing, but it's open source and ported to unix
 
Also, surely hufflepuff would be BASIC?
 
re-cbg
 
Nothing's more hufflepuff than JavaScript. It's so friendly, and huffly
 
@Gemtastic Apple uses Unix; weird if it didn't work on Unix.
 
11:09 AM
@PM2Ring cbg
 
Well, you're supposed to be able to develop it on ubuntu. Also, being unix based only makes OSX better than windows :P
 
Well now you can develop windows on ubuntu. Or is it the other way around? I forget...
 
I've only ever done the Apple Swift
 
I agree with Basic being Hufflepuff, although I guess JavaScript fits too.
And although the Python - Slytherin connection is obvious, I don't think Slytherins would actually write code: they'd outsource to Ravenclaw. :)
 
I wonder what kind of music Apple Swift does. Is it better or worse than her sister Taylor?
 
11:11 AM
if Slytherin weren't so lazy, they'd write in JSF*ck
 
@Gemtastic that explains why Apple products are cheaper than Windows ones, then. They got half their stuff free!
 
@PM2Ring I think they'd outsource it to Hufflepuff then hire Ravenclaw to make sense out of it so they can put it into production :P
@RobertGrant Apple. So Bang for the buck. Very inexpensive. Much Cheap.
 
This is nerdy, even for in here.
 
Sorry, things always go awry when I'm around :/
 
It's awry
 
11:13 AM
:D
 
demonstrating his newly found proper pronunciation of awry
 
Or ree!
 
A la hermione
 
@RobertGrant that's the old version:P
 
Olé?
 
11:15 AM
oh, was it a reference?
I don't watch the movies
 
'with milk'?
 
I can't read the books if I've seen the movie :/
 
you can't, they will ruin those sorry excuses for movies for ever
 
Unless it's something like Claymore where the manga is totally different to the anime
 
HP should qualify then
and I'm not a fanboy, I just feel blazing hate towards the HP movies
 
11:17 AM
@Gemtastic Taylor Swift is ok, but she's no Britney Spears... :)
 
Well, book one started out so alike I couldn't continue once I could get my hand on a copy :/
@PM2Ring But it's Apple Swift I wonder about
 
Didn't you notice half the plot being changed?
 
@Withnail :D
 
I couldn't read that far
 
oh...
I'm sorry for your loss:P
 
11:18 AM
Hey, is anyone here also in the Android room? I requested write access days ago and haven't gotten approval. Does it generally take a while?
 
but if you enjoyed the movies, there's no help for you anyway
 
Thank you, I grieve it every day since I was 13 :(
Not being able to read the HP books started my Teen angst.
 
@TigerhawkT3 i am, they did it within about 10 minutes, that was on Wed
 
Or not.
 
but why are you not able to read the books?
 
11:19 AM
he was sharpening a stick and sneezed
it's a touchy subject
 
I get bored and lose interest in it
 
hmm
 
@Withnail Any clues as to why they won't let me in? Do I need a certain score in the Android tag itself? The rules only mention generic "don't be a leech" sort of requirements.
 
I couldn't read them before the movies because they were lent out for years at the library and I was poor :(
 
I don't think so, I don't have any score on the Android tag
 
11:20 AM
@Gemtastic I read most of book 2 overnight, instead of sleeping
the books get pretty intense
 
@TigerhawkT3 they asked us for a reference and we were pretty brutal
 
Probably just no Room owners around/arsed to do it?
 
@TigerhawkT3 Don't they manually let you in?
They're probably just busy googling cats
 
I don't want to request again because they say that's a paddlin' - I mean a ban.
 
@AndrasDeak So I've heard
 
11:21 AM
I think you probably meet the 80 score requirement for access :p
 
They also leave room for hermione being black
 
@Gemtastic it doesn't come up at all
so, sure
 
Which would have been cool
 
she could also be a dude
 
That would also be cool
A dude with she pronouns. I like it
 
11:22 AM
no, wait, it comes up
"Wait, you're a girl!"
 
Maybe she's a transgirl
I like
 
anyway, if you ever get to do it, read the first 2
 
Inclusive book is inclusive
 
1 and 2 are somewhat different, and the other books are closer to 2
 
FWIW, on that "Britney Spears" site I linked to, there's a great article about Austrian born film star, Hedy Lamarr, and how she co-invented frequency hopping: britneyspears.ac/physics/intro/hedy.htm
 
11:23 AM
if you can live with book 1-2, go for the rest
 
Thanks. Though the next book I'll pick up is probably on python :P
My shelves are so boring. I only read utilitarian books.
 
I found that the movies don't even start to do justice to the books... so you might be missing out
 
Like the entire reference of Java8
:/
 
The movies are way better than the books for HP
 
Movies never do justice to your imagination.
Movies also ruins mine :/
 
11:24 AM
@Gemtastic yes, but I found these movies to be crap
 
Yeah but they also mean you don't have to read JKR's writing
 
@RobertGrant then our mileage clearly varies:P
 
HURRAH IT'S INVOICING DAY
 
In general I agree books are better than films of books, but blimey. Not in this case.
 
@RobertGrant They also mean I get a few more hours to code :D
 
11:25 AM
@RobertGrant ah, I'm safely protected from issues with language by being a non-native
or do you just mean she's a crappy writer?
 
Not that I coded back then. I dunno what I was busy doing. Probably reading books about horses
 
Caligula, that sort of thing?
 
Depends how you judge a writer, but they definitely aren't very well written
 
Because you can't fit in unless you like Horses and know every inch of their anatomy
Kids are weird.
Popularity is weirder.
But not as weird as me :D
 
@Gemtastic and @AndrasDeak If you haven't read Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality you probably should. The author, Eliezer Yudkowsky, is a bit of a prat, but he's also a bit of a genius, and quite a good writer.
 
11:27 AM
Well, I guess I'll keep waiting for Android room access, then. \o/
 
come to think of it, I read most of the books in a brilliant Hungarian translation
that could explain my lack of strong impressions about JKR's style
I did read roughly half of the books afterwards in English though
@PM2Ring thanks for the tip:)
 
@AndrasDeak The core premise is "what if Harry Potter's aunt had married a university professor of physics?", but there are a few other changes as well.
 
I hate reading translations. The only time some translations were nice were in the Tolkien books, because Tolkien used translations from scandinavian when making the names.
Treebeard's name is beautiful in Swedish
 
@PM2Ring yeah I gathered that from a cursory glance:)
sounds...provocative:D
@Gemtastic LotR also has an exquisite translation
HP and LotR and Winnie the Pooh are the three books with amazing translations (that I know of)
Winnie the Pooh is actually better in Hungarian
 
That's interesting
 
11:39 AM
@Gemtastic I assume it doesn't mean "Tree's spouse to cover up the fact that Tree is gay"
 
lol:D
 
And probably the reason as to why translated artworks gives you the copyright to them
@RobertGrant Gay? I thought he was Pan. His pollen goes everywhere and in everyone nearby in spring
 
he's certainly not lumbersexual
 
Dendrosexual would make sense, but what do I know
 
he totally is. I've never thought about it till now, but yeah.
 
11:42 AM
guys, anybody wants to recommend me books about project management?
I need to learn boring stuff
 
Project management?
Git outta here. Make some Agile moves on your way and don't be so Scrummy
 
yeah I need to learn to lead a development. So Agile meme
 
Why do you need to learn/what do you need to learn?
leading != project management though
4
do you need nuts 'n bolts 'get these people to do those things', or do you need 'inspiring leader 101'
 
basically, break down problems(which I can) then assign to right people right tasks
stuff like that
 
Perhaps "How to be a jackass for dummies"
 
11:45 AM
use a whip
 
and are you in a waterfall type environment or an agile one?
 
kek
 
Delegation. Just implement your MVC
 
@Withnail i have no idea really.
I know I shouldn't be the one who does this but we are startup
 
Model = backend devs and sys ops.
View = Frontend devs/webdevs
Controller: You
And in true MVC style, just make an ill fit of everything else into that
;P
 
11:47 AM
ech, poorly defined problem, really.
 
I smell many hats flying onto your shoulders
 
If you've never done anything in this space, I'd probably start with 37signals stuff - gettingreal.37signals.com
since it's a middle ground through most practical 'Stuff' around getting something done.
 
@khajvah Ah, so you've been "volunteered " to be the guy everyone else hates, and blames when stuff doesn't work. :)
 
@PM2Ring I was put in that position by the boss.
 
11:49 AM
I'd have a think about what the question you're asking is, though. What problem are you trying to solve with 'project management'. Project Management is, all too often, a solution in search of a problem the way it's applied. (Says the guy with a bunch of PM 'qualifications')
 
@Withnail so basically, there is a team of 5 developers working on a single project. I need to decide who does what and complete the project.
 
I'm gonna go do some more logging now. This conversation makes me smell all the reasons why I don't wanna work with a startup that isn't my own. Or a "start up" (small companies that has been going for a while with success and structure are nice)
Have fun!
(I know I will)
 
have a nice log
 
@Gemtastic thanks :(
So the keywords I should google is scrum, agile ?
 
11:52 AM
ish. Are you the lead dev?
 
yes
I did the architecture and stuff
 
Then, ime, you have the knowledge of who knows what enough to do the tasks. And the key question as manager you should be asking of your team is "What's stopping you doing what you need to be doing?"
 
I do but I have hard time controlling the project. Am I supposed to read the code other have written?
 
This is what I'm saying about "what's the problem you're trying to solve with PM tools?"
 
@Withnail having control on who is working on what, estimating deadlines, etc...
also releasing, versioning
 
11:58 AM
Ok, the latter is a fairly clear problem. The former isn't.
Because in part it sounds like you need a bug/issue tracker (and/or to use the one you have)
 
I have started using Jira
 
I'd start with the 37signals stuff and go from there, in terms of reading.
 
ok thanks a lot
I will start reading, hopefully I will soon realize what I am looking for
 
@khajvah while there's plenty of sneering at Scrum, it's not a bad template for getting going with what sort of meetings and tools you need to run a team
 
^^ That. That's where I pulled the "What's stopping you doing what you need to be doing?" question from, a modified version of scrums we used to run.
rbrb, need to go for a run
 
12:01 PM
I personally like Agile scrummish workflows.
Keeping your agile work agile is nice
Though that is easier to feel in what's working and what's not after you've experimented with it and gained a feel for it.
 
@khajvah the hard bit is absorbing pressure from outside the team and not blindly transmitting it to the team members, but instead doling out reasonable amounts of work to them and shielding them from the outside pressure as much as possible.
Without letting them just be ignorant of it.
 
No matter how good you get at estimations, they're still only estimated guesses
 
@RobertGrant sounds... interesting i guess
 
Non devs have a hard time understanding that. That, and that you can't just copy paste one thing into a completely different product.
 
good thing my boss knows programming and understands this
 
12:04 PM
One decent method I saw was to give out parcels of work and ask the devs how long they thought it would take
 
Then you're lucky
 
And then see how long it actually took, and work out how well each developer can time estimate. Then compensate accordingly
 
Yeah, I use the analogy of a building with a lot of columns: once you've built one column, you can basically multiply the time it took by the number of columns and you've got your time estimate. Because in programming you only create things once, you never have to estimate repeat work like that, which is why it's so hard to figure out.
 
But that requires good time keeping practises to exist in the beginning
 
(I didn't mean that in a condescending way, I'm sincerely happy for you)
 
12:06 PM
@Gemtastic :D
I like my job though. They put me in completely new positions all the time
 
@IntrepidBrit yeah I think that sort of thing is probably amazing if you're disciplined about it and have the right tools, but I've never worked like that :)
 
Having bosses that also knows what development is like is usually great. They're usually also very keen on adopting the new improvements and upgrades
 
yeah whenever I said I am refactoring, he said nothing other than "nice"
 
Now that's important
Imagine not being able to refactor D;
 
the project would break considering how terrible I was when I just started.
(not that I am not terrible now)
 
12:12 PM
Nods
 
@RobertGrant Even if you can train yourself to write the times down on a notepad next to your desk, it can really help
 
morning everyone
 
@IntrepidBrit that's something that could be in a theoretical tool I make, someday :)
 
I would be lying if I said that it hadn't crossed my mind
 
12:25 PM
I'd need a clever way to tie everything together though, but it is in theory doable
 
49 mins ago, by Withnail
leading != project management though
@Withnail In Finnish unfortunately we do not have separate words for "leading" and "managing" :D
there is a separate word for management, but usually people just use the one word for both :/
 
does it look like this: 💩 ?
rhubarb, be back later
 
@Ffisegydd Hahaha quite possibly :-)
 
Whole thing is a clusterfu*k.
 
I don't get why the labour party is in melt-down
Now is the perfect time for a Corbyn style leader to make some serious strides - especially if Owen Jones is to be believed on the causes of Brexit
 
You just answered your own question :-)
It's now or never for the antis.
 
But, if they do that then they'll never get in either because [New\w?]* Labour will have let them down. Again.
facepalm
 
12:55 PM
They must at all costs prevent the appearance that a genuinely left-wing party can be popular. Much more important to them than another ten or more years out of power.
 
I think with their banishment in Scotland, if English Labour consumes itself then it's good-bye Labour forevever
 
People forget this, but in 1981 the Thatcher govt. was in crisis and Foot was looking likely to sweep to power at the next election. Then David Owen happened.
 
David Owen was before my time. What's his craic? hits up wikipedia
 
Leader of the Gang of Four, founders of the SDP.
He and Galtieri are the two individuals most responsible for the longevity of the 1979-97 Tory government.
 
I suppose I should've looked for a dupe target for this, but I couldn't resist the lure for some quick points. Besides, it's hard to Google for something that specifically addresses this issue. :)
 
1:04 PM
Anything is possible – I wouldn't underestimate the ability of Boris to foul up so badly that even the current disaster in the Labour Party pales into insignificance – but yes, we're obviously going to end up with another split now; the only question is which wing ends up with the Labour name, and whether it'll be worth anything.
 
@tripleee I've already downvoted & close-voted that mess. And in a few days I hope to delete-vote. :)
 
@ZeroPiraeus Yeah. I would feel a bit more chipper about the prospects of the Lib Dems, if they weren't championing "We'll rejoin the EU!"
Uh, wat.
 
I actually think that's a smart move. Buyers regret is only going to get worse.
 
Morning cabbage.
 
I think they should be saying "We will stop the madness and re-ferendum before we do anything insane"
 
1:08 PM
There's value in being seen to stick by your principles, and given that Scottish independence is practically a given now (and the way things are going in the Labour Party), I see long term opportunities there. Will be a long road though.
 
I would agree, if the Lib Dems didn't already have a rep for not listening to what the public wants. And seconded to Bobby's fresh comment.
 
And this time, vote for what you actually want, don't do some moronic protest. Voting is easy, stop screwing it up.
 
@ZeroPiraeus I wouldn't be so sure of IndyRef2. Most folks I talk to feel most strongly against ejecting europeans out of the country. If Brexit is handled properly, and current residents are allowed to remain, then many of the knee-jerk fears will have been met
 
Hey, there were plenty of principled, genuine "I don't like Chinese food" brexit votes ;-)
 
The xenophobes who voted 'leave' wouldn't be happy though. [Disclaimer: not saying all leave voters are bigots]
 
@IntrepidBrit not all leavers are racists, but all racists are leavers
I'm now expert at trolling leave voters
 
Not true, I've met plenty of Anglophobes who voted 'remain' ;)
 
so racists are a strict subset of leavers?
 
Ah :)
 
ok, now they're just two sets with a non-empty intersection
also, cbg all!
 
1:19 PM
cbg(inspector)
 
I find myself in the distinctly odd position right now of hoping Theresa May becomes Tory leader. I can't stand the woman, but she stands a better chance of holding the party together than Boris, and if both they and Labour disintegrate, there's a serious risk of a 1933-like event IMO.
 
FUN FACT GUYS: -1 != 0.
 
No wai
 
Wai.
 
I don't know why, but I never understood politics. Everytime some starts talking politics, it sounds like this to me
 
1:24 PM
@ZeroPiraeus Inclined to agree with the sentiment, but I can't see another national coalition forming. Too many bitter divides.
 
Funner fact guys: doing arr.indexOf(x) < 0 is a stupid way of checking whether an array contains x.
 
maybe that's why I never got into Game of Thrones or anything like that
 
This is the Green's time to shine, they've been plotting this all along.
 
Seeking a dupe target for Is python code safe after delpoyment?. Surely this isn't the first time "Is Python insecure because end-users can see the code?" has ever been asked.
 
Don't tell them about Javascript
 
1:28 PM
@inspectorG4dget Unfortunately, as you can see with events like Brexit and the General Election leading up to it - politics is important, and it's important for everyone to have a vague clue what is going on.
 
@Kevin There's this on Programmers: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/66616/…
 
Yeah I prefer that one
 
@IntrepidBrit Oh I absolutely agree, and see it as an avenue for personal improvement to understand and influence the political landscape. The only problem is that I've never really been able to understand it in any capacity. So, if someone would like to explain it to me, I'm not only happy to listen, but also quite grateful
 
It's the same answer as the one to "What's to stop someone taking my $product (car, wallet, paper) and copying it?"
 
1:31 PM
I mean, the totality of my knowledge of Brexit comes from John Oliver, which though quite accurate, I'm sure is not entirely comprehensive - because c'mon! there's only so much the guy can say in 30 minutes, and he has to make some jokes in between, too
 
It's more a quirk of compilation that older languages just happened to protect your source code
 
@Kevin Zero's link seems to be the preferred dupe target.
 
@inspectorG4dget Thanks for the reminder ... haven't watched the latest one yet.
 
@Kevin Had someone come in on the weekend and was distraught when he found out you can get the python code from pyd files. Was worried that their client would be able to see the code.
 
Maybe you should point him at the code for $YOUR_WEBSERVER and really freak him out ...
 
1:32 PM
@inspectorG4dget How do you know it's accurate if you only know it from him? :P
He could be feeding you LIES.
Like I do on a regular basis.
 
I take such concerns about as seriously as "I'm worried I'll be targeted by a serial killer because my name is in the phone book"
 
@Ffisegydd tell him KevinScript is the language for him, because only one person knows it
 
In fairness, Oliver is mostly good on US and European stuff. Falls down a bit on Latin America; I usually don't know enough to give a strong endorsement when he touches other parts of the world.
 
@Ffisegydd I don't. But I have track-record based evidence to suggest that he's likely not lying about this
 
That's exactly what he wants you to think! Brexit conspiracy! Get your tin foil hats!
 
1:35 PM
I'll pick up a SnFoilHat on my way home today
the real question is "what are they really doing, while distracting us with this Brexit nonsense?"
 
15 mins ago, by Ffisegydd
This is the Green's time to shine, they've been plotting this all along.
 
ahh! it goes up pretty high, then
Sheesh! the last time I was that high, I was trying to decide my major
 
cbg boys and girls
 
Cabbage, idjaw.
 
cbg idjaw
 
1:44 PM
o/
 
I have a question for you guys:

I wrote a function to generate me some `itertools.count`s
Am I using this generator correctly?
def idGenerators():
    while True: yield itertools.count()
somethingIDs = idGenerators()
somethings = collections.defaultdict(lambda : next(somethingIDs))
 
Did you want yield from?
 
Looks alright although I'm curious as to why you would want this.
 
Sort your whitespace out Learn to read before commenting.
Eeek!
 
@Ffisegydd no. I want to generate a lot of those count objects because later on, I have this:
somethingElseIDs = idGenerators()
somethingElses = collections.defaultdict(lambda : next(somethingElseIDs))
 
1:52 PM
Man you really like to butcher code.
 
>>> somethings["foo"]
count(0)
>>> next(somethings["foo"])
0
>>> next(somethings["foo"])
1
>>> next(somethings["bar"])
0
That's what you want, right?
Because that's what you're getting.
 
that's what I want
Fizzy: I'm open to suggestions
 
(I mean that in a loving way btw)
 
@Ffisegydd <3 u2
 
But, hmm, couldn't you just do somethings = collections.defaultdict(itertools.count)?
 
1:54 PM
@Kevin I have a bunch of nominal features in my data. For each one, I need to assign a new integer ID for each subsequent nominal value
you're right, I could!
/me hastily refactors old code
 
Peer review! [success_kid.png]
 
I didn't sleep as well last night, so I figured I should get some coffee on my way in this morning. Since I quit coffee a while ago, this is have a much stronger effect on me than I expected. Unable to hold focus; mind too jittery
 
Well that's my quota for productive thought for the day. Off to imgur to look at cattes.
 

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