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2:01 PM
mraw
 
Have some whisky, balance it out G4dg.
#selfmedicating
 
sadly, there's none at work. I might have to do the whole Irish Coffee thing from now on
 
Overcaffeinated was part of the reason I had to go for a run.
Now back to making webapps that look like spreadsheets but aren't actually spreadsheets. :|
 
Heh yeah I know the feeling
 
I find caffeine improves my focus, but not my direction. I might spend four hours on a fun side project instead of the actual important task before me
 
2:05 PM
"We all hate Excel because of what we've heard, but can we still edit data adhoc in exactly the same way in a webapp? Because we assume it's not the way of working that's bad, just the name of the product"
 
Not that that's much different from my baseline behavior :-P
 
It's mostly version control & control of our IP that makes me want to take it out of Excel.
Excellent opportunistic marketing by a London job board: unicornhunt.io/jobs/ceo-at-number-10-downing-street
('CEO Opportunity at No 10 Downing St, London')
 
NB I have never used this, and in fact just discovered it now after wondering whether it was possible.
 
Huh, interesting. THanks!
 
Also those are gonna be some nasty diffs ...
 
2:12 PM
Tbh, at least diffs you can deal with progammatically. currently we're working across, e.g. 26 tabs trying to track changes.
' :) '
 
@ZeroPiraeus Ah, the "fun" one can have when working with files that are disguised zip files... My experience is with .epub files. They have to contain a mimetype file, it must be the first item in the archive, and it must be uncompressed.
 
Epub is zipped HTML right?
Plus bits & pieces obviously.
cbg
 
Ergh, there's construction going on ten feet above my desk :| get to listen to irritating screw driver all day
 
@ZeroPiraeus Mostly HTML or XHTML, but there are a couple of XML files as well that describe the structure. And that mimetype file.
 
2:18 PM
@corvid I hope there is a ceiling and floor in between tho
 
Presumably the restrictions on the mimetype file are so it can act as a magic cookie ...
 
The mimetype file just contains application/epub+zip. It has to be uncompressed so that tools can see it without unzipping the .epub, which I guess is fair enough.
 
#ThatFeelingWhen all of the SO answers are telling you to do it one way that'd be really awkward, but then you find that one person who says "Nah brah, do it this easy way" and you feel justified \o/
 
@ZeroPiraeus Exactly.
@Ffisegydd Of course, that one person may be a looney. :)
 
But it's fine because someone on the internet said it was.
 
2:22 PM
But then again
 
@AnttiHaapala Yeah but still, construction has been ongoing for like a year
 
@ZeroPiraeus typo: it’s “fire”, not “fine”
 
This is fi(r|n)e.
 
Must ... resist ... mind ... blown ...GIF ...
 
WAT :D
so leavers didn't have a plan?
 
2:31 PM
@ZeroPiraeus That reminds me of this: youtube.com/watch?v=cn_HugxlXIk
 
@corvid I thought you got a new job?
 
@Programmer Two week notice dontcha know... awaiting to change jerbs
 
Yoink.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. So is this your second week?
 
Nah, just put it in today actually
 
DSM
2:39 PM
Morning they-still-haven't-upgraded-my-notebook cabbage for all.
The loaner is so old it's running IE9, they didn't give me admin rights to fix it, and IE9 isn't compatible with Slash so I can't even see the PRs I should be reviewing.
 
just install linux
 
DSM
.. you know, I could boot this thing into the Linux I keep on my keychain. It would be a bit of work to get the wireless working, but at least then I'd be able to accomplish something.
 
I haven't had issues with wifi drivers for 2 years
 
I finally get to do some real data science at work. WOOOOOOO!!!
 
2:46 PM
so... from reading the postgresql documentation, I don't get the reason why anyone would use json over jsonb. Anyone know of an example where json is better than using jsonb?
 
Nope
 
I bought a USB wifi dongle a couple of months ago. I was impressed that it came with Linux C source (a tarball) for the driver. The instructions weren't perfect, but it didn't take long for me to compile it for Mepis Linux and a couple of versions of Puppy Linux.
 
Source? :o
I have seen binaries but never source codes
 
3:03 PM
NIDABA folks. Just quickly threw together some code. It's not finished yet, still have plenty of exception catching to handle. But would angrily reject appreciate comments on the code before continuing.
 
> In general, most applications should prefer to store JSON data as jsonb, unless there are quite specialized needs, such as legacy assumptions about ordering of object keys.
 
json is better because it's easier to pronounce.
 
But you can't index JSON, right? Or do I have that backwards
 
@khajvah Yep, source. FWIW, it's an Edimax EW-7811UTC. It was pretty cheap. And I suspect it has a tendency to drop packets, which makes listening to internet radio painful. But apart from that, it works. :)
 
3:05 PM
Right, you can only index jsonb, but you lose the exact representation. Exact representation shouldn't be required, but if it is you can fall back to json.
 
DSM
@Kevin: actually, how do you pronounce it? I've always thought "JAY-sun", as in the name, but they say "jay-SAWN" here.
 
The main use I have for using JSON right now is just stuffing responses from a third party api into those fields, such as from OAuth or some transaction
Right now, using battlenet authentication. On authentication, just need to fetch the list of characters for that user, assume its valid on the server, and stuff it into the characters field on the services_battlenet table
 
DSM
@idjaw isn't around to ask, but do people have a preferred cross-language CI tool? One of the teams around here uses Jenkins(+tox), so unless there's an obviously superior alternative I'm inclined to stick with it.
 
I say JAY-sun.
 
@DSM jay-SAWN, although I don't have a strong opinion about it. If I heard more than one coworker call it Jason, I'd probably switch.
 
3:08 PM
@DSM hey :) I'm around.
 
I say jéson in Hungarian, I'm often too lazy to read abbreviations properly
 
Er, wait, now I'm not sure. I just said it a couple times and they both sound wrong.
 
I'm not a good role model for pronouncing techy terms. I intentionally pronounce "tuple" as "tupple" even though I know it's wrong.
 
@DSM Jenkins is perfectly fine, and we also use tox for our Python based testing. We do have several bundles that are controlled by maven. So Jenkins will trigger "mvn clean <whatever>" and inside the maven steps there will be a step to run a tox command among other "things"
 
Jay-Sohn with the emphasis on the second syllable.
 
3:10 PM
@Kevin That's weird ... I do exactly the opposite, even though I know that's wrong.
 
@Kevin would you say you're a trolle model?
 
Is Jenkins more widely used than, say Ansible?
I have that horrible feeling like I did when I bought minidisc players, that I've backed the wrong horse.
 
I use Jenkins. Make of that what you will.
 
I think I pronounce it as "two-pull"
 
Appeal to authority FTW!
 
3:14 PM
Oh. :(
I always pronounced it 'too-pl' :(
 
Now you can do so with the added thrill of rebellion :-)
 
DSM
Speaking of appeals to authority: "According to Douglas Crockford who introduced JSON, it's pronounced like the name Jason (JAY-sun)."
 
I watched 1.5 seasons of Silicon Valley over the weekend and they pronounce it "two-pull" and they did it in the presence of the character that's hypersensitive about mispronounced words and he didn't say anything, so that's evidence enough for me
 
DSM
Your logic is irrefutable. Not necessarily sensible or correct, but in that I have no response.
8
 
But they're American, and so inherently wrong about English
 
3:17 PM
^^^
 
@Withnail I don't think you can equate Jenkins to Ansible. Jenkins is an integration tool mostly used to facilitate testing software, while Ansible is an orchestration tool used to provision servers.
 
tuple rhymes with couple
 
^^ YES!!! because rhyming with poople makes no sense.
 
Am I the only person that throws a Y in there then? As in, tyoople?
 
ok, that makes sense. The ansible uses I'd seen had included deploying stuff (I guess as the end result of provisioning) so I'd assumed it was more comparable - that's helpful. adds to stuff to learn
yes
weirdo
#latterdayshibboleths
 
3:24 PM
Tuple rhymes with couple. Couple shares letters with "coup", which is pronounced "coo". Therefore, the P in "tuple" is silent and sounds like "towel".
6
 
I forgive Americans for mis-pronouncing "tuple", since it's similar to "Tupelo". :)
 
DSM
@idjaw: is there anything you've found yourself wanting to do which is particularly difficult in Jenkins? Reviews on the web make it sound like it's harder to customize and maintain the further you get away from their default patterns.
 
Am I a bad person if I now flag this comment and request a comment cleanup? :P
 
3:41 PM
@DSM to be very honest. Not really. We leveraged this project to make our lives easier to build pipeline jobs that help with our CI process. Within each job in that pipeline, all we are doing is simply running commands that trigger the necessary tests to validate our bundles. Once they pass, we run a "build artifact and deploy" job. It's fairly straight forward and we don't try to do anything overly fancy with Jenkins.
 
@poke I'm leaning towards "no"
 
If there are any specific things you are thinking about doing with Jenkins that you feel are out of the standard, let me know. I can let you know whether we have done something similar @DSM
 
:D
 
Generally I feel that users have less "ownership" over their messages on SO as compared to other kinds of forums. If deleting content against the author's wishes will make the Q&A better, then so be it.
 
I don't really think of SO as a forum as much as a conversationally-oriented wiki
 
3:43 PM
Yeah, agreed, just felt like I was being an ass requesting deletion after the users explicitly said that they don’t want to delete it.. :P
 
DSM
@idjaw: okay, thanks! One concrete question which I'm still confused about: do you check your pipeline details into the code repo, or are they maintained outside?
 
@DSM yes we do actually. The CI box is managed by puppet. So when we make a change to a template, we commit, and then puppet apply on the CI box. One huge improvement in our new CI stack we introduced is now we have a full CI stack we deploy on our own dev sandbox to ensure changes work before it is live. I can go on to more details just let me know
 
4:00 PM
I had an idea yesterday: how do we feel about adding tags to answers as well? Several answers could be valid for a given question. So if each answer uses a different methodology/toolkit/api, then the answer could be tagged with those attributes as well. So when someone else in the future tries to find an answer to the same question, but is somehow constrained to some methodology or API or (you get the idea), they can search for and can be served answers with those criteria as well
 
My initial thought is that if a question has enough different answers where we need tags, the question is probably too broad.
 
interesting point
 
Yeah.
I think it just adds noise for very little signal gain.
 
Besides, the top tag would just be jQuery
 
If the answer is well-written, then attributes like API or algorithm will be mentioned by name, so a search engine will find them anyway,
 
user559633
4:11 PM
where did we come down on the tuple/couple tuple/two-pull debate?
 
DSM
Can't speak for anyone else, but I was waiting for tristan to arrive and settle the matter.
 
user559633
Smart.
 
It's two-pull. Tuple (rhymes with couple) just sounds like a snooty brit. ;)
 
4:26 PM
@idjaw so you use Chef to maintain your Jenkins jobs? One of the issues I have with Jenkins is the difficulty of source-controlling all its configuration data
Tyoople, btw :-)
 
Does someone want to hammer this one Kevin mentioned earlier? stackoverflow.com/questions/38055072/… The OP's latest comment:
@PM2Ring : None of them. For knowledge purpose and for future reference I'm asking these. — user5259019 7 mins ago
 
@holdenweb Our current CI that my team is transitioning off of is currently managed by puppet. By that, the jenkins configuration and all the pipeline templates, are all defined in a puppetmaster-ci project that gets applied to the CI server for any changes that are made.
@holdenweb Our new one we have migrated about 90% of our projects to as of last week is provisioned by Ansible.
 
4:48 PM
We're using Jenkins to control Ansible jobs. Sometimes that seems like the worst of both worlds
 
@holdenweb Jenkins is strictly used to test our projects. So, we simply run very simple commands that will kick off whatever level of testing we are performing, and then we have jobs pending passing tests that will bundle and deploy artifacts and tag master. For <reasons> we are not automatically deploying in prod ATM. But it's down to something as simple as a "deploy" button. So it's a controlled automation :P
 
user559633
@holdenweb using jenkins to call ansible via python or as stand-alone shell commands?
 
user559633
i tried the prior and i hated it -- the latter is what i'm currently doing and it's "fine"
 
I stick to shell commands as much as possible when writing out code that needs to be executed by Jenkins.
 
Ergh. This framework is doing wonky things with datetime objects :|
 
4:57 PM
What really improved my Jenkins life is Jenkins Job Builder. But it all depends on how many projects you're juggling. Job Builder can be overkill for some.
 
@idjaw the latter, I am happy to say
We're using pipelines.
 
Jenkins Job Builder is what holds the pipeline structure and job definitions. So we simply list what projects use that template and it gets generated. It's wonderful
 
Awwww yeah, new mouse!
 
what you get?
pics pics
 
user559633
a small rodent?
 
Looks photoshopped. Check out that low poly count.
 
Agreed. Nice try, Morgan
 
It's a little weird, because it's enormous compared to my old mouse.
But it feels much nicer, and has more buttons!
Plus, the scroll wheel works.
 
user559633
how's the lateral scrolling and forward/back button placement?
 
Good mousefeel is an important quality among mouse enthusiasts ("mousies")
 
user559633
5:16 PM
You can't underestimate the importance of mousefeel.
 
@tristan It's going to take me a bit to get used to it, but I definitely like it.
I basically just move my thumb slightly up/down and it clicks.
I'm trying to figure out how to bind the side scroll wheel to volume.
 
@MorganThrapp Nice. I'm a gaming.logitech.com/en-gb/product/… man myself.
 
Oooo, that looks really nice too.
Damnit, I'm not allowed to have buyers remorse yet.
 
Got Ctrl, Alt, Shift, Tab bound to the thumb buttons
 
Oooo, nice.
 
5:26 PM
I never got in to programming buttons on my mouse. I just left click, right click and scroll. I'm happy with just that.
 
I want to try using a trackball at work, but I don't know if I'll like it.
 
My only complaint so far is that I don't have a use for the tiny button under the scroll wheel. I do love that the area where my thumb rests is a button.
 
user559633
Are there two scroll modes? On the previous flagship logitech, there was a controlled scrolling and a free-scrolling wherein the mouse wheel would just freely roll
 
Yeah, there are.
I hate the free scroll, so I disabled that first thing.
So I'm trying to find something else to bind it to.
 
user559633
Mute, pg-down, or cmd/alt-tab?
 
5:32 PM
I already have the left thumb button bound to play/pause and the side wheel to alt-tab.
pg-down isn't a bad idea.
 
Soo is this the place to get help in python or just a like-minded python chat room? just wondering
 
Both.
 
Any ctypes experts here currently?
 
user559633
@toshbar it's both, but it's worth checking out our room rules sopython.com/chatroom
 
Will do now
 
user559633
5:33 PM
@toshbar the answer to this question is in the room rules
 
So I need to learn my fruits i guess haha
 
user559633
don't worry so much about that optional silliness
 
The mandatory silliness on the other hand...
 
user559633
Such as "be nice?" Yeah, I wish we'd do away with that nonsense.
 
Hear, hear.
 
user559633
5:37 PM
Kidding not kidding
 
lol. Alrighty I don't have any questions now but I have a rather large python/ctypes issue I've been troubleshooting over the last two weeks. I'm still doing tests on my remaining ideas but once I'm all out and still no fix, I'll be back. Cheers Peaches and Pears
 
user559633
@toshbar there's no harm in posting the code that you have in a gist or pastebin and asking someone to take a look
 
user559633
standard disclaimer that if you don't get a response, or worse, an unhelpful one, that's the nature of public/free help
 
Of course. The nature of my code though is that it's ran on a simulator on a closed network so it's impossible to test outside of it. Unfortunately public help is a true last resort. I'll throw together a pastebin later today
 
user559633
Ah, that's interesting. Hopefully it gets sorted -- and if you figure it out, please do a self-answer question on SO and link it in here
 
5:43 PM
Re-cbg
 
user559633
cbg
 
Any room rules experts in?
 
user559633
/me rolls up a newspaper
 
:D
Bah, my stranglehold on the star board today is at an end
 
anybody here manage to install the scipy stack on windows?
 
5:50 PM
I installed Python and Numpy. That's like 60% of the stack I assume.
 
hmmm... k thanks
 
DSM
@inspectorG4dget: time you spend not using conda is time you don't get back.
 
user559633
Didn't look into why, but I recently had trouble installing the scipy stack, but it went away when i upgraded pip, created a new virtualenv, and used the new pip to install the scipy dependencies
 
+1 for conda, +1/2 for Gohlke if you want to avoid conda for whatever reason.
 
I honestly don't know what I would do without Gohlke.
 
5:55 PM
Cry like a bitch.
 
Basically, yeah.
 
really? I'll check it out. I've already installed a bunch of stuff directly from within PyCharm, so I'm just installing a bunch of whls right now. If that doesn't work, I'll have to go with conda
 
Conda is the shizz.
 
Never heard of either of them. One of them seems to be to do with outdoor pools
 
user559633
Fizzy's Conda don't want none unless you got the whls son
 
5:57 PM
is it the shizz only for windows, or is it also the shizz for max and linux? My understanding is that since osx and linux have package managers, conda did not offer any substantial improvements
 
Conda vs virtualenv and pip?
 
@inspectorG4dget it can be used in all, and can take some work away from even os x and linux.
For example, not having to build the libraries that need compiling, like numpy.
Especially those that require BLAS and ATLAS.
I managed to get Theano working on windows the other day. Literally felt like I'd climbed Everest wearing nothing but a pythong.
 
@ZeroPiraeus I do this, but just because I'm English
 
Not even conda can pre-build Theano properly, still so much extra to do.
But conda definitely makes it easier.
 
that's pretty impressive, Fizzy. Thankfully however, I did manage to install all the relevant whls, so I think I'll pass on anaconda this time. But next time... next time for sure!
 
6:05 PM
cabbage
 
in other news, I'm kinda sad that def func(param, (a, b), (c, d)) no longer works (in 3.4)
o/
 
anyone here done upserts in postgres before?
 
I am not, that syntax is awful :P
 
That upsets me.
The pun master is here, But still I'm taking his place ;)
 
user559633
I'm surprised that doesn't work.
 
user559633
6:08 PM
@corvid just ask your question mr crow
 
@BhargavRao are you upserting the delicate humour ecosystem of the room?
 
Looks like I am
 
you have done well, young Padawan
 
We should stop distracting tristan from his sertup work.
 
user559633
# named params with two-pulls works
def func(param, a=(1, 2), b=(3, 4)):
 
6:10 PM
I want to upsert based on a field in a json object, which may or may not already exist
 
user559633
JS + react + js ecosystem has distracted me from building my failed startup
 
user559633
also slither.io
 
@tristan that's not at all what I'm trying to do
the twopull matching/unpacking works on pattern matching - if you know that you are getting a couple (aka a 2-twopull), then you could call the first of that a, and the second b. This is the same as:
def func(param, couple):
    a,b = couple
however, in py2.7, you could do this:
 
>>> def inspector(a,(b,c)):
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    def inspector(a,(b,c)):
                    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
 
6:14 PM
def func(param, (a,b))
 
>>> def inspector(a,(b,c)):
...      print a,b,c
...
>>> inspector(1,(2,3))
1 2 3
 
yes, that's invalid in 3.4. It was valid in 2.7
 
@inspector This one, right? I miss that too.
@AnttiHaapala cabbage
 
exactly. I miss that so much
cbg, Uncle!
 
the reason why they stopped supporting that unpacking was that getargspec didn't work...
 
6:15 PM
Why though? It's an extra line :/
 
... you couldn't use that with kwargs either...
 
it's an extra line
I'm not using kwargs at the moment
 
We just have fundamentally different opinions on this, and I'm afraid to say that my opinion is correct and yours is wrong.
 
it wasn't widely used and there were some serious downsides to it
standard library itself didn't use it at all
 
user559633
As always, I'll feign strong opinions in an attempt to use hyperbolic humor until I go too far and make someone feel alienated and offended
 
6:17 PM
well that's always true. The chain of command goes Guido (with Fizzy's permission) > Fizzy > everyone else
 
user559633
Yet another case of Python 3.x limiting user freedom on the behest of Big Lizard Federalist EU Government
 
Things will be better after Brexit, no more of the bloody EU making us support 2.7.
Bloody Python 2 programmers coming over here with their print statements, stealing our syntax.
 
user559633
British Memes exchange rates are up against EU Memes after the Brexit.
 
>>> inspect.getargspec(foo)
ArgSpec(args=['a', ['b', 'c']], varargs=None, keywords=None, defaults=None)
 
Vote of no confidence for Jezza C tomorrow.
 
user559633
6:20 PM
Who is Jezza C? Is that some sort of meme'd out jesus christ?
 
@tristan down, though you can get 1.19 European memes for one British
Crobyn
@tristan Corbyn is the Jesus' second coming
Labour MPs in Britain are insane
 
user559633
The fact that there isn't an official Tea Party for the UK government is proof that the world has turned upside down.
 
Vote of no confidence to a Chairman for not cleaning the mess made by another party "well enough"
the logic goes like this "if he'd been parroting Cameron, we'd Remained"
 
@tristan Don't think we could have a "tea" party - all the coffee chains would never vote for it :)
 
Cabbage @jon, Howyadoin?
 
6:31 PM
Same old as always - how's you?
 
1
Q: ctypes, python3.5, OSError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000

toshbarResearching other similar errors, I think that I have an issue with a an illegal operation such as writing to an address that I shouldn't be. I'm not sure how to resolve this. Any help please? Exact error I'm getting: in GetSoftwareVersion() result = f(LCP_Version, FCP_Version) OSError: excepti...

 
@JonClements Life's going on well. :)
 
Ta Tosh, someone will help if they can.
 
=]. I'll be back in 15. going to test some solutions but i'm almost positive none will work
 
user559633
that's the spirit
 
6:35 PM
@toshbar I remember seeing that earlier. It was FFFFFFF before ;)
 
that smells weirdly like the zero sector. I'm glad OSs are catching up and patching the Olypic Torch virus
 
user559633
@toshbar off the top of my head, i'd assume it's because the c_char_p(0) repetition where you probably want create_string_buffer. i'm not sure how c_char_p handles being initialized twice with the same int as a buffer. based on the size out the output, maybe do something like create_string_buffer(10) there instead?
 
user559633
create string buffer should give you nulls at different locations for strcpy to overwrite
 
c_char_p(0) makes a new char* pointing to 0...
then you're strcpying to it...
which is exactly "access violation writing 0x0000000"
 
user559633
ya
 
6:45 PM
just cahnge the 0 to 1 and you should have access violation writing 0x000001
tristan can write an answer.
 
user559633
what about changing 0 to 3? ;) p.s. i knew that taking a swing at it would make someone smarter than me to become interested
 
that would say "exception: Britain exited the EU"
 
user559633
alright, i'll post an answer. i'm going to be using your access violation example in the text, so please let me know if you want to post it instead and i'll take mine down
 
that "britain exited the EU?"
 
Hey cool. Didn't know this happened: python.org/downloads/release/python-352
 
6:53 PM
go ahead
 

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