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Air
5:00 PM
The second interview, head of the division asks me, "So I hear you've worked with sequel before"
And I responded tentatively, "Uh, I'm not familiar with that... I've worked with My Ess Queue Ell..."
 
skwill. Like "squirrel" without the Rs.
 
Air
Wikipedia is descriptive, so it'll show you both. The prescriptive, correct way to say it is to pronounce each letter, because SQL is an initialization, not an acronym.
 
It's all good to me, as long as you pronounce "gif" like "gif" and not like "gif"
 
SQL should be held up forever as an example of how not to name things. It would be like if C++ had been named "Cee" to be cute.
 
Air
5:03 PM
Anyway, this is all just one more reason to prefer PostgreSQL: it helps you pronounce itself correctly. :)
 
Post Gress quill?
 
@Kevin what if I pronounce "gif" like "skippy" ?
 
@Air go tell that to the Oxford English Dictionary..
 
Air
@MartijnPieters You mean the oheid?
 
Oxford has been around since the old timey era, how can they be expected to know anything about computers.
 
@tzaman I'll allow it.
 
Air
Dictionaries are also descriptive, though.
 
It says in the Wiki article that the name es queue ell is just because of trademark issues.
So, calling it sequel sticks it to the man, man.
 
and the original paper named it SEQUEL so there's that
 
And they're both acronyms for the exact same phrase, ha.
 
Air
5:08 PM
No; SEQUEL is an acronym, SQL is an initialism.
Nitpicking aside, it is easier to say "sequel"
> The official way to pronounce “MySQL” is “My Ess Que Ell” (not “my sequel”), but we do not mind if you pronounce it as “my sequel” or in some other localized way.
They do not mind if we pronounce it "My Cabbage"
 
The preferred way to pronounce MySQL is "postgres"
 
ceebeegee
 
Air
Next time the database server goes down:
 
cbg @Antti
 
Cabbage. There is another user named "abhi" over here. :) Every time someone replies to him, I get a notification.
So the reverse must also be true.
 
5:12 PM
seems to be Abhishek
 
Air
@tzaman That joke works better in this form
 
"We have identified the cause of this error and are working on an update to resolve this issue. This update should be released in the coming weeks" - Thanks for not saying "months". So epic...
 
@abhi it is bc ppl generally assume prefixes work ok for notifications :D
 
@AnttiHaapala Maybe. I haven't met him.
 
@Abhishek meet @abhi
I haven't either
 
5:13 PM
The people at my work-place refer to me with the first two alphabets of the English language "A B".
It is somehow easier for the letters "AB" to roll off their tongue
insteaD of calling me "Abhi".
 
"bh" isn't a very common letter combination for us, I suppose
 
if someone calls me "Abhi", the "H" is usually silent.
@Kevin I guess so.
 
Air
baingan BHarta is the only thing that comes to mind
 
The two words that come to my mind are "Bhangra" and "Bhang".
 
BH in swedish means bysthållare aka bra
 
Air
5:17 PM
ah! weBHost!
 
Bhangra is a traditional dance in North India.
 
Not counting compound words like "clubhouse", we'd most often see it in "abhorrent"
 
Bhang is a drink made of milk and a narcotic substance.
 
What do you do about questions that are basically "I would like help designing my program" type questions?

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29778924/chow-to-read-in-from-a-file-and-store-information-into-a-vector
 
Where the H is more or less silent (local dialects may vary of course)
 
5:18 PM
hej is the only swedish word I know @AnttiHaapala
that's from going to Ikea.
and "Poang"
 
On one hand I really like the question because it's the thing you should be asking when you're learning programming, but it's also not a very useful SO question.
 
@QuestionC I usually vote "too broad" if there are multiple reasonable designs for what they're trying to do
Like, more than three.
 
I know at least 5 reasonable designs for detecting cycles in a string. =)
 
@abhi it would be poäng
pronounced like "poeng"
:D
 
That's interesting.
I have a poang chair at home.
what I like about Ikea is that they claim to be swedish and all of their stuff is manufactured in China...
 
Air
5:20 PM
Even the lutfisk?
 
Is anyone following this async/await thread in python-ideas? I am getting really confused.
Is it for a set of new statements that are restricted to only work with async, or a new language feature that other projects could use for their own purposes?
Someone said it was the latter, but people are talking about it like it is the former.
 
@TheBlackCat link to groups?
 
Looks like the question got cv-pls'd out of existance before I could help the guy.
 
@AnttiHaapala Here is the relevant thread: mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2015-April/033007.html
The start of the relevant thread, rather.
 
Are mEmbers of SO rage quitting?
 
5:24 PM
@TheBlackCat it should be the new language feature I guess...
it is my big grieve
basically you could use generators for lightweight threads ...
but the problem is that a function that does not have yield cannot be the other side of the thing...
 
I already don't understand async in 3 languages. Now I can add python to that list.
@Air there is no lutefisk at ikea Conshohocken
Just Salmon or Tilapia.
 
The first time Yury shared with me his idea of new keywords (at Pycon
Montreal 2014), I understood that it was just syntax sugar. In fact, it adds
also "async for" and "async with" which adds new features. They are almost
required to make asyncio usage easier. "async for" would help database ORMs
or the aiofiles project (run file I/O in threads). "async with" helps also ORMs.
 
Air
@abhi I actually don't know if the one near me has it either, I just know they have a lot of ostensibly Swedish food near the checkout area
 
@TheBlackCat it has new features
Finns consider the meatballs very Finnish :D
 
It's probably not so much Swedish food as it is food that Americans think are Swedish. Our Chinese food places run on the same model.
 
Air
5:30 PM
Well whatever their origin, if you give me meatballs I am sure to Finnish them promptly
 
but even in ~2260 G'kar identifies the dish as swedish meatballs :(
 
train cbg
 
I went from 10 fps to 17 fps after changing pygame's pygame.draw.line functions to pygame.draw.lines. Thx cProfile
 
actually when I go to Ikea, I go to sweden
sucks to live in Oulu, have to go shopping furniture construction kits in another country
 
All good meatballs come from Italy.
 
Air
5:39 PM
Oh, no. There are so many good meatballs from so many different cuisines.
 
vietnamese Bún chả is also good :P
 
Yes. In India we have meatless balls, called as Koftas
 
+1 for kofta
 
@AnttiHaapala Still not understanding. Someone in the thread used the example of multiprocessing. If this would implementing, would someone by able to write, say, a pool for that lets someone run the for loop in a multiprocessing.Pool?
 
But in Iran, what they call "Kofta" is a meatball and has meat in it.
 
5:42 PM
@abhi a meatball has meat in it? Say it ain't so!
 
@abhi these are indian/nepalese/bangladeshi/whatever
 
is there a way to lint files and reject a push if the linter comes back with too many errors?
 
never had Iranian "koftas"
@TheBlackCat what I do not understand is what you're asking :D
 
DSM
@corvid: don't see why not, as long as your framework support a precommit hook.
 
framework? As in git?
 
DSM
5:43 PM
Ehh, suppose I don't mean "precommit" there, but you know what I mean.
@corvid: yeah.
 
I think kofta is probably a common word across cultures.
it just means a different thing in india.
In india - kofta = No meat
 
@abhi you are arguing with yourself :D
 
:D
 
@corvid if you use git, you can set up pre-commit-hook
 
Quick Question - How can I put a breakpoint in pydev in eclipse?
 
5:44 PM
write any python script to run...
 
I had done this previously, but I am unable to figure it out now.
 
This is annoying. The chat window doesn't scroll down when a new message appears.
 
@TheBlackCat this is a language feature that is a bit between threads and generators - coroutines
 
@AnttiHaapala Okay, with the proposed approach, you can write async for to use a for loop with async. The question is, async a new keyword, or simply a class (or instance) that implements certain methods, and other classes that implement those methods could be used in a similar way?
 
DSM
@Antti: yeah, but that's why I decided "precommit" wasn't the right word. I think we've already committed, and now we're deciding whether or not to accept a push, so I think it'd be one of the server-side hooks now, no?
 
5:46 PM
cool cool... people keep committing unreadable JavaScript, and JavaScript is already hard enough to read at times
 
async is ofc a new keyword too...
 
So could you add those methods to the multiprocessing.Pool class to let you do pool for in the same way you can do async for.
I guess this would be sort of like a context manager, where a class that implements certain magic methods could be used with with. In this case, a class that implements certain magic methods could be used before for or with.
In that case async wouldn't be a keyword, just a class.
 
nonono
I cannot quite yet grasp exactly how is right... but this is not about a class
 
@Kevin For me it scrolls down sometimes, but doesn't other times.
 
the async def vs def for example is the same as having yield in a function or not...
 
5:59 PM
@AnttiHaapala Oh, that is too bad. That would be really useful.
 
I mean yes, you can use them as a context manager and so...
yes
but async is a keyword
 
No, sorry, I don't mean that they can be used as context managers. I mean that it would add new magic methods. For example a class that implements len can be used with len(), a class that implements add can be used with +, a class that implement call can be called, a class that implements enter and exit can be used with with.
 
The idea is that a class that implements, say, for or cofor or something like that could be used before a for keyword, and a class that implements, say, with or cowith or something like that could be used before a with keyword.
 
DSM
I don't know enough about the usage patterns to know whether adding an async keyword is worth it, but I'm always reluctant to add a keyword for a specific use case. Have to think for a while to see if there's a way to generalize, though.
 
6:10 PM
Hello all. Php programmer, just spent all of last night researching Cython. I am thinking about moving to cython for all of my future projects. At first, it seemed too good to be true. is Cython really the god-send that I think it is? Is it the new standard for python?
 
CPython is currently the standard, rather than Cython. Apparently the latter still requires some specialized knowledge, so it's not entirely suitable for general audiences.
 
DSM
It's very handy if you're doing numerical code, or code with tight inner loops you need to be very fast.
I'm not immediately sure why it would appeal to a PHP guy, though, because the things it's good at aren't things I really associate with PHP.
 
well i use php for building web apps, api integrations, things like that. i also do heavy file processing in php for one of my apps. but even if the extent of the work was crud, i have become obsessed with speed, and starting at the language root of having near C level performace is the best root
 
lol
php
/troll mode off
 
6:15 PM
I am still suffering with eclipse. For some reason I am unable to enable a breakpoint on mycode.
 
How do you 3d print a kickstarter about rockets? ;-)
 
My friend is part of the UCSD team. I've seen some of their previous stuff, it's really impressive.
 
Time to reboot my machine. Rhubarb
 
@abhi just use pycharm ... its very nice
 
DSM
6:17 PM
@davidism: looks cool enough for me to forgive the fact they don't know how to spell "faring" in "spacefaring". ;-)
 
Whoever is doing the promotion for this is obviously new to it, yeah.
 
why doesn't stack overflow support ``` block code goes here ``` syntax yet?
 
DSM
I wonder if 3d printing will help move more people back to the physical-tinkering side of things and away from the code-tinkering side of things -- more Newtonian, less Cartesian.
 
It's all fun and games until someone prints an RPG
^ Note: I am not arguing for restrictions on 3d printers
 
Like... A tabletop RPG?
My wizard casts magic missile at the darkness?
 
6:20 PM
3d printing isn't just consumer affordable plastics
 
Yes. Where the little men have real magic missiles.
 
theres already lots of downloadable models that print fireable guns ... some of them work even made entirely from plastic
well lots may be an overstatement
 
I think the usual argument here is, "any weapon you could make with a 3d printer, you could also make with a moderately appointed metal shop". So if you want to ban the former, you ought to ban the latter too
 
I believe the state of the art in printable firearms is "will probably not blow up in your hands. May not fire more than once."
 
yeah, was just about to say that, although I haven't seen any news about them in a while
 
During WW2, the allies delivered dirt-simple, cheap, single-shot pistols to resistance fighters. The idea was that the gun only had to work once, to shoot a Nazi that had a good firearm. Then you take his.
 
Reminds me of how British soldiers would frequently confiscate fuel cans from German soldiers because the design was so much better.
 
I've got some Jerry cans. Great stuff.
 
After stating that "Use an inner join <link>" was not a vlq answer, George Stoker apparently reversed his decision and deleted the answer anyway.
His response: "oops, I was just looking at the link, undeleted". Just admit it's a bad answer and delete it!
 
:/
 
6:35 PM
does anyone know of a way to check if a float is nan or +/- inf easily?
 
hmm, x == float("NaN") doesn't work...
x == float("inf") and x == float("-inf") do seem to work though
So there's 66% of the problem solved
Oh the math module has an isnan method.
 
x = float('nan'); x.hex() == 'nan'
but yeah you should probably use that isnan method
 
import math

def is_nan_or_some_kind_of_infinity(x):
    return x == float("inf") or x == float("-inf") or math.isnan(x)
 
x = float('nan'); x.as_integer_ratio() raises ValueError
 
math.isfinite(x)
Return True if x is neither an infinity nor a NaN, and False otherwise. (Note that 0.0 is considered finite.)

New in version 3.2.
No school like the new school.
 
DSM
6:41 PM
Aw, man, step away from the chat room to answer a question and people start talking about things I know about. :-/
 
I wonder why they felt the need to indicate that 0.0 is a finite number.
 
I like my silly solutions. I'll just ignore the fact that the math module exists.
 
Note that 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 are also considered finite. and 5.0, 6.0, 7.0, 8.0...
 
DSM
How's this for pretty: (x - x) != (x - x)
 
Uh oh, Kevin's entered an infinite sequence of finite values.
 
6:43 PM
I like dsm's answer :)
 
0.5, 0.25, 0.125, 0.0625, 0.03125, 0.015625, 0.0078125, 0.00390625, 0.001953125...
@davidism Nah, not infinite. Just all the ones that a float can represent.
 
I got my 3D engine from 10 FPS to 18 fps now. I don't know what more i could improve. Someone who want to look into the code?
 
I just have to enumerate all 2**64 possibilities.
 
Funny. That was a logic test in an interview I had "Write 1/16 as a decimal"
 
6:45 PM
@DSM would (x - x) == 0 fail?
 
ehhh dsms will fail for some floats though also no?
 
My gut says it will work for "normal" float values.
 
DSM
@Antti: no, try it.
 
I mean that:
why (x - x) == (x - x)
when (x - x) == 0 would do too
I asked is there any x - x where the result would be nonzero if finite
 
-0 maybe?
 
6:47 PM
yes but -0 == 0
 
x-x==0 works fine
 
DSM
@AnttiHaapala: oh, I see what you mean. No exception comes to mind, I just wanted to use the fact that nan != nan.
 
Mm, nan.
 
NaN bread
 
-0 and 0 have different binary representations in floating point. I wouldn't assume them to compare equal.
 
DSM
6:49 PM
@QuestionC: I think -0 == 0 is part of the spec, though.
 
The IEEE floating point spec says they should compare equal, if I recall.
 
try it:

fn, fp = float('-0.0'), float('0.0')

fn == fp
 
70 minutes to M-Time. Are we ready with the champagne cocktails?
 
DSM
@sebleblanc: to be fair, that shows that they compared equal, not that they're guaranteed to. Although I agree they will.
 
How do I print the binary representation of a floating point?
 
6:51 PM
float.hex(f)
"binary"
 
@Ffisegydd 70 by my watch.
 
It's not strictly binary, but it's a non-ambiguous representation.
 
I thought it was 2000? Blah yeah.
 
2000Z.
 
Can't you use the struct module to get the raw byte data of a float?
 
6:53 PM
struct.pack("f",1.234)
 
Kevin, that would be the correct answer
 
What's this about M-time? Some kind of nice round unix timestamp?
 
Mod-Time.
 
bin(struct.unpack("i",struct.pack("f",1.23))[0])
 
@JoranBeasley I think that's it :-)
 
DSM
6:55 PM
We should be prepared to offer both congratulations and condolences as appropriate. Not sure which of the two goes with victory..
 
dumb mongo :| makes some thing so annoying to do
 
Just having to put up with my flags should make any potential moderator think twice about taking the job.
 
Wow, this was twenty years ago:
feels old
 
Hmm, looks like some kind of hotlinking prevention
 
I'm just gonna assume that's watchmen
Your perception is altered by the relatively recent succesful movie man, that's all.
 
7:01 PM
Watchmen is a little older than 20 years, I think
 
Crap, watchmen is 30 years old.
 
My guess is, superman in his mullet phase.
 
Carrying the 0 is hard man
 
People aren't seeing the image? Works for me in various browsers, via proxy, etc.
 
All I see is "See the original covers at www.comics.org"
 
7:02 PM
 
Must be a pretty sophisticated hotlink prevention thing if the culprit doesn't know anything is wrong
 
Better?
 
Yeah
Don't think I'm familiar with that character.
 
Shade was awesome.
 
Has a Sandman kind of look to it.
 
Air
7:04 PM
Well, it's Vertigo of a certain era, so
 
Same era, same imprint, British writer ... sorta-kinda I guess.
 
Not to mention " Death of The Endless appeared in a subtle cameo in issue 50"
 
Air
Oh, I've read that WP article before. Struck me as a nod to Who, with the whole reincarnation thing
 
I wonder what kind of ceremony they have for mod elects
 
The synopsis is interesting, I'll check it out if I ever get the opportunity
 
7:07 PM
There are parallels ... never considered a DW connection myself, though, and it was my favourite comic pretty much throughout its Milligan run.
 
DSM
Has anyone used plot.ly for anything?
 
I hate mockist unit testing. It's obnoxiously cumbersome.
 
@DSM I believe I had a play with it once upon a time.
 
DSM
@Ffisegydd: I don't quite understand the setup. Is everything handled in client-side JS, or is there work done on their servers?
 
I don't know, didn't think about it at the time.
I think it's all client side.
plot.ly/product/enterprise has a DS Pipeline at the bottom of the page.
Suggests that plot.ly handles the plotting on the frontend.
Plus you've also got plot.ly/product/plotlyjs
 
7:16 PM
@davidism you around?
 
DSM
@Ffisegydd: hmm. Interesting.
 
the plotly.js looks awesome actually.
 
cbg
I have kept Congratulations Ninja and Puppy ready in my text area
:D
 
Don't count your chickens.
 
is there 3 spots or 2?
 
7:24 PM
3
 
3* [* there may be more than 3 at the discretion of the community team]
 
Im pretty sure martijn is gonna win ... jon clemens has some competition
 
The result is almost accurate
Jon is neck to neck with 4 others
:D
:)
 
Dude. Chill. We have no idea what the result will be.
 
Chilly weather outside!
Coincidence!!!
 
7:26 PM
There is absolutely no way to say "Ninja has broken competition" so please don't
 
Okay! I'll stay quiet for the next 36 35 minutes
 
It's taking the p*** majorly. It makes us as a community look smug and big headed just because we have a member who may become mod.
 
Its 90 here...guess that counts as chilly in Southern Florida
 
Fizzy, Can we change the topic then? :)
 
Movie chat time. This weekend I watched The Man From Earth. I forget who recommended it.
I liked it. It basically resembled the kind of goofy thought experiments that I'm prone to, only stretched out to 90 minutes.
 
7:30 PM
Ah! kevin... Got the 10th vote? Or still on 9?
 
@BhargavRao Still nine. I'm not concerned about it though :-)
 
You are not coz you've got hell lotta medals!
 
I've been re-watching Castle, and after that I may re-watch BSG.
 
I'm just looking forward to Avengers (and then Jurassic World)
 
7:32 PM
And Star Wars
 
Jurassic???
 
I have to commend the film for keeping my interest for the whole time despite being 100% people talking in a room.
Well, there are one or two shots of a different room. Same house, though.
 
I also re-watched The Cube the other day (re. people talking in a room :P)
 
Did you mean Jurassic 4 is commin out soon???
 
@Ffisegydd we just finished castle season 4
 
7:33 PM
I last watched it when it first came out (on sky tv) so late 90s.
@Robert it's a great show.
 
@BhargavRao Yeah man, with Andy "Starlord" Dwyer as the head of security.
 
Air
@Ffisegydd don't forget about Kung Fury!
 
My favourite bit is where he's wearing the "space pirate" halloween outfit, and the Firefly music plays
 
@Robert there's so many allusions to Firefly. There's a whole episode based on sci-fi conventions. It involves a sci-fi show that was cancelled prematurely IIRC.
 
Air
I take it the room has already seen the Hoff-infused theme song
 
7:34 PM
Freak! Jurassic makes me nostalgic
 
wait, there's a Firefly "Mel" shout out on Castle?
 
Yes
 
@JGreenwell there's dozens :P
 
DSM
Some are less subtle than others.
 
Air
@JGreenwell Halloween costume."What are you supposed to be?" "A space cowboy!"
 
7:35 PM
My personal favourite is when he speaks some Chinese and then Beckett asks "You speak Chinese?" and he just goes "Oh, yeah, from a show I used to love."
 
I've only watched episode one and two....great now I have something else to watch. Just caught up with Dr. Who
 
DSM
Castle is fun, and that's enough for a show which is basically a cozy procedural.
 
...and rewatch Firefly
 
Indeed. It's not amazing gripping TV. It's a nice episodic TV show with a half-decent continuing story, plus the occasional clever crime/murder.
 
cbg
 
7:37 PM
I just died laughing
 
Then how the hell are you here?
:D
 
:D came to heaven
 
So this chatroom is heaven?
Maan! I never realized
 
@davidism got you a present!
 
Castle always looked interesting to me (I imagined it would be like a comedy Law & Order) and now Firefly references (which I should have guessed)...yep, adding that to my queue
 
7:39 PM
Rubik's cube - The sight of which sends shrills down my spine!
 
cbg @AdamSmith, having a better day today I hope
 
@JGreenwell Not so much. Trying to execute that change and DNS servers are playing up somewhere. Network admin is scrambling to fix it
 
Oops an accept pushes me to 195! Till this happened I was happy, Now I am pushed to make it 200.
 
Somehow his network isn't ready to handle the hostname, even though he's had over a month to get it ready and it's urgent according to his edict.
grumble
My guess is that the site routers are blocking outgoing SSL traffic on all IPs except the one that used to be specified in that config file. Now that we've changed it to a hostname it has a whole gaggle of IPs to choose from and most of them are failing.
but he swears it's a DNS issue. I think he's full of it.
 
DSM
I know what some of those words mean.
 
7:47 PM
that would seem to point to DNS not having names resolved right in the conf.
 
except that nslookup <hostname> on the terminals resolves appropriately
 
@JGreenwell what's up?
 
it could be a zone problem though (ie. one zone was updated while others were not)
 
I'm 90% sure the problem is that the terminal is trying to open an SSL connection to one of the IPs returned from the DNS, but the site router is blocking that connection
 
@Air First time I heard about it. The video is satisfyingly kinetic. I'd watch it, and not for ironic purposes either.
 
7:51 PM
I have a problem: I need to edit a python file to configure an application, but it gives me a syntax error. Could somebody please have a look at those few lines? It tells me the syntax error is at the word "garage".
 
@davidism not much just saw that you fly drones near Miramar and might have had some concerns about where you can fly: Miramar has an RC Flyers group that could probably answer any question you have (if you ever have any)
 
@ByteCommander Needs a comma at the end of the previous line
 
Tip: syntax errors tend to be off by a line.
 
looking and trying...
 
7:52 PM
@DSM it's yet another police procedural that has a civilian tagging along who has some expertise or power, but it's pretty cool :)
 
@JGreenwell nice, I found the San Diego Drone User Group as well
 
@ByteCommander And you'll probably need the same for "tpc" and "au"
 
Always like this? "name": {...} ,
 
spent my first year in Marines at Camp Pendleton so I still have friends in that area
That was back in 05-06 when drones were not really a civilian thing yet :)
 
@Kevin almost like having china in your hand
 
7:54 PM
@ByteCommander Yeah, although the last one on line 42 would be optional
 
I think my brain just isn't wired to parse stuff into a syntax tree
 
Less then 5 minutes to ninja take over time M-time.
 
ah, that group would likely know too then :)
 
@Kevin Thank you very much, that was the problem. Sorry for the noob question, I did not start with Python yet...
 
Nested data types can be a little tricky to get right.
It gets easier, though.
 
7:59 PM
@AdamSmith good luck with the fubar, hope people learn some lessons and it gets better for you
 

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