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9:01 AM
@Zero yeah... I feel slightly guilty even though I shouldn't :)
the Dark Council has to stick together and all that :)
 
I'm back :)
 
Hello back - how are you? :)
 
Great forward, you?
 
I'm all right
 
Me too (and don't want to feel left out).
 
9:06 AM
Well. Assuming he doesn't get in too much trouble over this, I am never going to let him live it down.
 
@Ffisegydd he should write comprehensive tests for the sopython site as penance :)
 
what did he do?
sorry, went to eat missed out on the action
 
@Games just read up - we don't need to keep re-iterating it
 
@JonClements We should make him change his avatar ;-)
@Ffisegydd :-D (trello)
 
9:12 AM
:3
 
Troll question.
 
There we go - that can be the new avatar as he's so found of catoverflow - it must have distracted him :)
 
cv'd -> closed -> delete vote
 
... and it's gone
 
> This question was removed from Stack Overflow for reasons of moderation.
headshot
 
9:17 AM
@Cerbrus well - nice to meet you here anyway... welcome to the room... shame it's under these circumstances though :)
 
Haha, thanks :P
 
Wow... probably took more time to post this than just read the explanation next to the example in the documentation... amazing... Why do people do that!? growls
 
cbg
 
cbg again @PM2Ring :)
 
@JonClements Maybe someone vaguely familiar with what davidism's script is doing should make a relevant comment on that meta page‌​...
 
9:27 AM
I'll post now.
 
@Ffisegydd did you want to draft on sopython and me to review it?
 
Well I was just going to comment something like...
We've recently been doing a lot of burnination work and to try and help this along, davidism wrote a bot to try and do edits. The bot obviously did not work -_- davidism has now gone to bed and so will wake up to a lovely message from balpha in the morning. He had the best interests of the community at heart, but obviously he has made a mistake and will face up to the consequences. I'd like to apologise on my friends behalf for now, and am sure he'll profusely apologise later.
 
@JonClements My guess is that the OP just doesn't know English well enough to understand the explanation.
 
@Ffisegydd sounds good to me... is it worth mentioning that there's a group of us willing to help in rolling back etc... but don't want to proceed with that as it's uncertain if mods/devs are working on anything?
 
@Jon I'm just adding that in now, but having to reduce the length,.
 
9:32 AM
Or make two comments?
 
Also explain that "we" = "python chat room regulars"
 
@ZeroPiraeus *we refers to Python chat room regulars. In order to define who are regulars and who was not, we set up a meta definition to define users who can potentially be regulars. We set up a meta-meta definition to define users who may define regulars as regulars, who are...
 
define "regular".
 
Does anyone know if davidism's script can be modified to fix the damaged posts?
 
No, even if it could be, it shouldn't be.
 
9:35 AM
He hasn't published it yet :)
 
There's a change it'll break again.
Either the mods can fix it automagically, or we will roll them back manually ourselves.
 
@Ffisegydd Ah, ok. Automagically sounds good to me...
 
Is the script still running? I had the idea it stopped 30 mins before the Meta post.
 
It has stopped, yes.
 
I'm actually surprised the API didn't completely throttle such a mass of edit requests...
 
9:37 AM
^
 
Yeah, just saw Balpha's note in the tavern as well.
 
That he'd messaged David or something else?
 
I'm trying to close an issue through a commit. Has anyone been able to achieve this using SourceTree?
@Cerbrus nice picture of a wolf. :)
I'm assuming it's not an autoportrait? :)
 
Nah, it's just a google'd pic :P
 
Just wondered why my audio stopped working
Stupid sound bar keeps turning itself off
stupid energy saving measures... if you've got audio coming in, don't power off!? Surely...
 
9:49 AM
I love when I plug in my headphones and a little popup comes on and says "Audio jack connected" - "Yes Windows, I know it's connected, I connected it..."
 
cbg(all)
 
cbg @Peter
 
@JonClements @Ffisegydd how the heck can you live with this:
?
 
Err... ?
 
bahahahahahaha. Yeah. I've had that conversation with people from abroad before now.
 
9:52 AM
instead of this:
 
I was once speaking to 3 Swedish women and they couldn't get their heads around it.
 
@Ffisegydd this is madness.. :)
 
Madness? THIS. IS. BRITAIN!
 
:D:D:D
I was waiting for the reply
nicely done.
 
The thing is that a lot of places have the second type of tap, it's not all the first.
 
9:54 AM
Mine are all mixer taps
 
well, my brother's flat has the original one..so..
@JonClements which is the former or the latter?
 
the bath actually has a mixer where you select the temperature
and the shower's digital to select the temperature
 
sweet
 
So, just normally have it on 38 and lift it up, leave it for about 5 mins, and there's the bath
 
I hate mixer taps. I particularly hate mixer taps that you can easily jog to a different position while in the shower.
 
9:55 AM
@ZeroPiraeus that's a fair point
I hate that situation too
but shower is different situation
 
@Zero well... it's difficult in my shower as it's a digital panel that does it... and the buttons aren't overly sensitive
 
because the water at the end comes out from one source
which is fine with me.. but with two mixers and two sources?
that is the madness part :D
 
@ZeroPiraeus get a bigger shower :)
 
@RobertGrant I'll be sure to mention that to my girlfriend's family ...
 
Isn't it amazing that something like this can occur naturally?
 
9:59 AM
Wow. That looks like some sort of Animé MechaSnail
 
@GamesBrainiac I'm in love with the natural/organic form-creation
@JonClements LOL
 
Isn't it scary that nature can come up with something like that?
 
I can't work out what I'm seeing there :)
 
It's a mole - obviously
 
10:00 AM
Naked mole rats are in uncanny valley territory, IMHO: they look unpleasantly penile.
 
@RobertGrant Its obvious, one's a mole-rat, the other is someone's finger.
@PeterVaro Yea, the ratio is just amazing.
 
Right, I'm gonna go stretch my legs while stuff's running, rbrb for a little bit
 
I made the above stereo image using a couple of lines of POV-Ray code. It uses a very simple algorithm devised years ago by Clifford Pickover.
 
It's regrettable that David created that script; I'd have advised against it.
Because I find that a manual retag goes fast enough but also makes sure that you clean up any other glaring problems with the posts.
Anywho, damage is done now, can't do anything but point and grimace.
 
10:16 AM
@Martijn what do you suspect, based on similar things that have happened in the past, that any punishment will be? Edit ban?
 
@MartijnPieters What happened?
 
@Robert read up a bit, you'll find the whole conversation.
 
@Ffisegydd I don't know. I think he may get away with a warning.
 
Oh, sorry
 
A ban is used to make the user stop the behaviour until they can see the moderator message.
 
10:17 AM
@Robert no worries :)
 
6
Q: Replaced " with " in edit

PeterI do not understand the edit made on my question: http://stackoverflow.com/posts/22328191/revisions if it is retag work, why the quotes have been changed? (it even does not work in the code section)

Since his script has stopped already, and it is clear from the circumstances what the intentions were, I don't think a ban is needed here.
 
Yeah. Just the other day I was at a data analytics meetup speaking to some people about Nidaba. They asked whether I'd eventually automate the closing process and I explained to them that if it went wrong, it would be my (or whoever's account was being used) fault.
 
At least it's just a re-tagger, not a paperclip maximizer :)
 
It looks like a script that achieved self-consciousness and is now running rampant. — Jongware 53 mins ago
I like that comment :)
 
@davidism it was 4 months ago :)
 
10:27 AM
@RobertGrant Me too; that's what inspired me to post my paperclip maximizer comment.
 
Oh, sorry yes
 
10:50 AM
@GamesBrainiac It's called the golden ratio. Many things in nature use it. Check sunflower seeds while still on the plant. Or the way some plants position their leaves.
 
11:08 AM
re-cbg
 
cbg
 
Morning
 
cbg @PeeHaa
 
11:25 AM
cbg
 
greetings @Bonifacio
 
11:40 AM
@MartijnPieters that question you just participated in putting on hold: he's not getting very far from his first post (now rolled back twice): stackoverflow.com/posts/27763779/revisions
If he doesn't want it shown, and going to keep reposting... can I get a stackoverflow.com/questions/27763779/…
they're obviously not getting in the spirit of things or improving their posts/listening to comments
 
"fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffdddddddddddddddddddddd please leave this this is my question and i don't want people seeing it"
 
@Martijn for that guys original post, I was sorely tempted to hand him:
with open(classno) as fin, open('class11.txt', 'w') as fout:
    for line in filter(str.rstrip, fin):
        name, *nums = line.split()
        print(max(nums, key=int), name, file=fout)
his teacher's face would be priceless :)
 
One of the devs has been made aware of this by @J. Steen's flag and has notified the author of the script. No idea how the edits will be sorted out though. — BoltClock ♦ 1 min ago
 
Hey @Boltclock
We're happy to go through posts and rollback edits.
 
@BoltClock we're quite happy to split up some work load here and start correcting stuff if that helps
 
11:49 AM
But didn't want to muddy the waters by starting, if there was some magical method that mods/devs could apply.
 
@Ffisegydd That's what I'm not sure of, since the devs haven't taken any other action
Mods don't have any such tools
 
I imagine it'd be easier for the devs to just do a bulk revert... but that means there's a lot of naff posts sitting there
@BoltClock is there a way you can contact shog9/balpha re: what's happening?
 
@JonClements balpha was the one who handled J. Steen's flag
I'll poke him again
 
@JonClements: ah, lets just delete that older post then and hope he has what he wanted. The print() is a nice touch. :-P
 
Cheers, I've just posted in tavern as well...
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 54 secs ago, by balpha
@JonClements I don't think we have an automatic way. I've asked the user in question to go fix it, but he hasn't reacted yet. If you want to help out, that's certainly appreciated
Right.... how many of us wanna go through this?
raise your hands
 
11:56 AM
@Jon ok balpha has replied, I'll start from the end of the pile in 5-10 minutes or so over lunch. You can start from the front if you want and I'll meet you in the middle.
 
There's your answer
 
Right, I'll grab a cuppa - that gives a few minutes to see if anyone else wants to chip in, then I'll get started
 
I think I can help
 
Errr, hang on, are we just reverting the body? eg: the tag changes are valid... ?
 
Not sure how much I can help, will see after lunch.
 
11:59 AM
The only thing that it screwed up was changing all the HTML <>&" chars to entities, right?
 
Yeah, tag changes are valid
 
@vaultah okay, I'm getting ready - you in for this?
 
Yes, what page should I start from?
 
There's almost 12 pages of revisions on stackoverflow.com/users/400617/…
I'll take 1-4, you take 5-8/9, and @Ffisegydd can work from last backwards?
 
Yep cool.
 
12:03 PM
Right, I'll get started then...
oh hang on
so we're looking for html entities and putting them back as actual chars
we can do this slightly more smarter - gimme 2 mins
 
cabbage everyone
 
cbg @Nebril
 
I wonder what his script actually did. I haven't seen a single bad edit yet.
And I don't think it was an automatic script, as they seem to be proper edits. Not sure :/
Starting page 9
 
nope... just look at the second one
 
12:14 PM
the api returns html escaped entities, so when whatever happened saved them back it didn't re-encode the entities
 
Ah right. See he was modifying the script as he went. So all of my edits are fine :P
It was only the later ones that are borked :P
 
So, the API returns &quot; instead of ", but then it saves back as &quot; instead of " etc...
 
I'll keep on working back anyway
Until I hit when the issues began
Ah I've started hitting the issues.
 
Okay, almost finished a script that takes a question using the api, then corrects the encoding errors, and outputs new text that can be used... but we'll do the editing manually :)
Saves searching / replacing etc...
 
Starting 7th page
 
12:22 PM
You can't have done 5 & 6 already?
Nope - that idea isn't going to work
Best approach... take each post in turn, and run html.unescape(...) on the text
the api returns html, so my idea would destroy the markup (although it'd look okay)
 
Finished 9, starting 8, so don't go past 7 @vaultah
 
Ok
 
Then we can go back and do 1-4 while Jon plays with his script :P
 
no... it's too difficult... I'm just going to copy the previous revision body over the re-tagged one
 
hello look at this question :)
 
12:35 PM
I've been rolling back and then re-editing the tag out.
But yeah, same I suppose.
 
Finished 7th page
 
What about when it doesn't actually affect the post? For example if it replaces ' with &quot; in text and so still appears as a '?
I was leaving those as fine, but I may go back and modify them anyway.
 
Any ideas about this one?
He changed more than one tag
 
@vaultah no, the tags were re-ordered.
 
12:39 PM
Yeah I've seen a few of them.
 
:D Okay, sorry
 
Tags are ordered by popularity when edited; if the tag popularity has changed over time that means the tag order can change later on.
Rather than roll-back, use the edit link on the preceding revision and do the tag edit in one go.
 
Hmm, thanks, will do next time
 
@Martijn ahhh... that's a good idea :)
 
Starting 4th page
 
12:43 PM
Okay I've done 8 now, but I might go back and check I didn't miss any.
so there's just 1-4 now I believe.
 
Pregnancy post is gone.
I'll take page 5.
 
I fixed it
 
Ah, already done.
Page 10 then?
 
Page 3 is untouched AFAICT
 
hrm, nothing to fix on page 10; looks like he was fixing an earlier error in the script though.
 
12:47 PM
Just starting page 2
 
page 9 for me
shakes fist ineffectively at @Ffisegydd.
page 8
 
I think I've done 8 too, but I missed some because they were fine (the malformed bit was in text so appeared "fine) but I may go back and do those too.
Ah you're doing those now :) in which case I will finish my lunch then head back to the office.
 
Yeah, I didn't want to rely on eyeballing the change.
 
this guy has some concerns about using with file as f:, which is unusual to me. Isn't it conventional to do with open(whatever) as f:? Why do a with on an existing file object?
 
and it turns out that editing a previous revision will only touch the tags if you not also 'change' the body. I add a useless space, then remove it again.
 
12:56 PM
cbg
@Kevin valid points there
that is so shitty bc docs say: "it is a file-like object"
 
(unless I can remove a thank-you tail or something).
 
@Kevin I met some "files" that didn't do context manager
can't remember what were they, but I needed to close them too :(
 
So it appears that "rollback, change the tags" approach is the best
 
Gonna grab another cup of tea, then start on page 3
1 & 2 are done
 
could it have been gzipfile or sth
 
12:59 PM
@AnttiHaapala That is unfortunate.
 
@MartijnPieters Arghgh... sometimes it appears to sometimes not...
omfg... don't tell me I have to start again
 
D:
 
@MartijnPieters sorry
 
Is @JonClements a mod yet?
;)
 
How do I ask "what are you guys doing that requires revising pages of things?" without possibly being conscripted into the effort myself?
 
1:05 PM
Sup Haidro TerryA :P
 
So me and Martijn met here D:
 
@JonClements: I just went back over my own revision history to check what I'd had missed.
 
OH interesting why does it say Haidro in chat still
 
@vaultah: are we done now then?
 
Scrolling up, it appears to be some kind of quest given by Boltclock, Bearer of the Blue Nametag.
 
1:06 PM
I need to go back over mine (8-12 I think) but I was using Rollback + Edit rather than just Edit so I think I'm okay.
 
I fixed some of those ^
 
@Ffisegydd LOL!
 
@TerryA Hey Haidro! its been ages! How are ya?
 
Hey @GamesBrainiac long time. Just kinda lost interest in SO/coding in general
 
@Ffisegydd Oh, that's unfortunate :-(
 
1:07 PM
@TerryA I've been away from SO for a while too. I think I'm going to get back in it.
 
I just started school and oh boy it's a burden
 
@MartijnPieters I rolled back to your revision
 
anyways I'm going to go sleep now it's actually 12:08am
 
Cases like these are why admins should have a big red "revert all changes made by this user in the last X hours" button.
 
Based on a few random post tests we should be done now.
 
1:08 PM
@TerryA own school?
 
Hello @MartijnPieters @JonClements long time no see for both of you
 
@TerryA been there done that - wait until you start working - that's even more fun :p
 
The button has to be big because it has a lot of text on it. The red is just for dramatic effect.
 
@AnttiHaapala huh?
 
@TerryA indeed... good to see you
 
1:08 PM
@TerryA: Cabbage!
 
oh yes is the vegetable language still existing?
 
but of course
 
Also where's my boy Volatility
 
Not seen Vol in ages actually.
 
:(
I've been passively getting reputation still, this turns out to be a good hit :P
That may probably be my first 100 voted answer :D
Anyways, rbrb all! Goodnight!
 
1:10 PM
rbrb dude
 
(rhubarb is bye, right?)
 
cya haidro
 
KevinScript type system attempt #4 is going pretty well. My specification doc got to 35 lines long before I had the first, "wait, how can I possibly make this work?" moment
Which is like three times better than my previous attempts.
I think I'm an hour away from learning why Python makes a distinction between __new__ and __call__, and why I should too
I'll just look up __new__ in my usual dunder method documentation... It says "Really Complicated". Well, I knew that.
 
@Kevin In a nutshell, its all about the __mro__
other than that they're all just methods.
 
Right now, my design is like: when ClassType.__call__ executes, create an Object instance and add all the functions from ClassType onto that object, with some closure trickery so that self points to the right thing.
 
1:24 PM
@Kevin Good luck ;)
 
...And this works quite well, except for one thing: I can't define special calling behavior for instances of that class, since ClassType.__call__ already exists and must not be replaced by anything else.
Hey, it's the man of the hour :-)
 
cabbage :(
I am so embarrassed.
 
/me gives David a manly hug
 
Just came across a page while browsing that before fully loading renders literally "Welcome to {{VENUE.TITLE}}", then it finishes loading and actually does render the Jinja or whatever their using.

But what causes the template code to ever seep through? I previously thought the replacement was done before it made it to the browser at all.
 
woke up to mod mail
 
1:26 PM
hmm?
 
Before any business, I think we should make it clear that we still love davidism and we're not going to send him to a farm upstate.
 
Weren't we all ready to kill him or something?
 
I wasn't here for that part :-)
 
but I really appreciate the effort that went into those images @Ffisegydd
 
Me neither :P
 
1:27 PM
:3
 
They're on Dark Council board?
 
@OllieFord Wow, that sounds really strange.
 
Yeah, I didn't want to make them public in case davidism wasn't amused. But if he's happy then I can post them in chat.
 
go for it :-|
 
I'm not aware of any primarily client-side rendering frameworks, but I suppose there's no reason they couldn't exist.
 
1:30 PM
@davidism I think we've almost corrected most stuff... but you may wish to consider a bit of humble pie on the meta question :(
 
xfce runs so well, not sure why linux mint doesn't use it as it's "flagship" product
 
Haha
 
@JonClements yes, I&quot;m reading backwards right now
 
:-)
 
@davidism ha you mean I&#39;m
 
@Kevin I'm glad you're surprised too! Here (SFW) if you're curious. It flashes up and corrects more quickly for me now - but when my network connection was much slower a few mins ago, effect was much more pronounced.
 
@davidism don't typo
 
There is no Python highlighting bug, nor do Python posts have the wrong auto-highlighting setting.
@davidism: good morning! :-&lt;
 
Yep, there's "Welcome to {{VENUE.TITLE}}" plain as day
 
1:34 PM
@OllieFord Saw that too; displaying the template before the content has loaded fully.
 
hoho :D
I downvoted jeffs post on "webby language"
and got a popover saying "please consider leaving a message about how the post could be improved"
 
@JonClements I have a meta post about me ;_;
 
@davidism what can we say - you've got your 15 mins of fame :)
Okay, been through them again... pages 1-3 are done
 
Strange... I found this in PEP 8,
> Don't compare boolean values to True or False using == .

Yes: if greeting:
No: if greeting == True:
Worse: if greeting is True:
 
0
A: Replaced " with &quot; in edit

davidismMy sincere apologies to you and everyone else for the trouble I've caused. I decided to use a script without testing and obviously was wrong to do that. Thanks to the efforts of everyone in chat, this is being fixed.

 
1:42 PM
@thefourtheye seems reasonable to me
 
Hey dude, not all bad then, could end up with a meta badge :P
 
@MartijnPieters @Ffisegydd @vaultah what's the status update?
 
@davidism and just in case you missed it: in my strong opinion such retags should be done by hand anyway as there are usually other issues to pick up on, like removing thank you and closing blatantly off-topic posts.
@JonClements I thought it was done.
 
@Kevin It makes sense, but still feels strange...
 
I believe it's all done now yes.
 
1:43 PM
oh okay - I've done 1-3... did someone else do page 4?
 
@thefourtheye Worse, because if you do greeting=1 then if greeting is True: will fail.
 
Yeah vaultah did 4-7 I think, with Martijn filling some gaps that I'd missed and maybe some of vaultah's, not sure.
 
@PM2Ring Actually I found the "Yes" part strange
 
@MartijnPieters yes, this is abundantly clear to me now
thank you everyone for cleaning up my mess, I owe you two each
 
Consider the opposite. If the rule was "replace all boolean expressions with if expression == True:, then you'd never be done, because if greeting: would become if greeting == True: which would become if (greeting == True) == True: which would become if ((greeting == True) == True) == True: which would become...
 
1:44 PM
Yep, I'm 99% sure we've done everything @JonClements
 
Well, let's draw the line here... what's done is done... let's learn from it and move on, okay guys?
 
@thefourtheye Why? The yes part succeeds if greeting is any truthy value.
 
(although @davidism we do reserve the right to mock you about this for the foreseeable future :p)
 
@Jon whoa whoa whoa? Draw the line? Does that mean we can&quot;t make jokes about it?
Ah okay that's fine.
 
1:47 PM
I&#39;ll go through and review, but I've really got to get to work.
 
Or the reworking of that dialogue in Gödel, Escher, Bach
 
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 33 secs ago, by Jon Clements
@balpha @Shog9 and for others with an interest in the re-tagging "Fortran Fiasco" - all changes have been corrected, and also related, http://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/284933/
@davidism I'd be interested in a copy of the message balpha sent you - can you forward it? :p
 
I hope you have a good day at work, davidism.
 
@PM2Ring Interesting read, thanks for sharing.
 
@JonClements still have the jon@sopython.com address?
 
1:51 PM
on friday cabbages are more cabbageous.... cbg all!
 
cbg @Paolo
 
@JonClements sent it to you and @Ffisegydd. rbrb
 
@davidism just read that... it's a remarkably balanced email - just get your ass into gear and get to work, we'll mock you about it later :p
 

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