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user559633
9:00 PM
@Humdinger because internet has a very low barrier to entry and the current sales platform is social
 
user559633
so any mouthbreather with a tumblr/twitter/facebook can inflict their crazy on others
 
@tristan some proposals were made by the government here that the top 500 companies in the UK should enforce (and by law made to do so) employ women on their boards
 
user559633
what the christ.
 
most women I know are dead against it
 
user559633
probably because you know sane people.
 
9:02 PM
@JonClements I am all for equality, but laws like this actually divide equality more than they allow it
 
now knowing if you got the job because you were the best fit, or because you're filling some form of artificial "quota"... I'd hate that
@Humdinger it's called "positive-discrimination"
 
The US Army has done the same type of thing
Women are now held to a lower standard, and there must be a certain percentage of women allowed
Which from a military point of view, is not fair for everyone else
 
nope
I use to run a dev team which was about 90 people
 
user559633
Yeah, especially because some tasks in the army are still very physical.
 
3 were female
 
9:04 PM
@JonClements Actually, it's practically never been called "positive discrimination" except by its enemies ... the preferred term is "positive action".
 
I say, if a woman can pull my injured body off the field of combat, she is welcome to be on my squad, otherwise, sorry.
 
after about 3 years, one was promoted to team leader, the other senior progammer, and the other got her own project lead
 
user559633
that's messed up, but I doubt the 30:1 ratio is because of sexism in the hiring process.
 
@Zero but it's not "positive" in any way means or form!
@tristan over 5 years, I had a total of 7 women apply for a role
 
user559633
yeah, it sucks because we all have anecdotes like that and it is super not progressive that there's this shared opinion in the tech industry
 
9:06 PM
Hey can someone suggest , what web projects I can create with core Python ? (Considering I am new to Python and creating this to learn)
 
user559633
when really, i know a lot of really talented female programmers
 
user559633
@Shashi what kind of web project
 
It is absolutely positive. The status quo discriminates massively against women, and to take your example of MPs, if the only action were to select "equally" from here on, it would take an entire generation to acheive a Parliament that actually represents its constituents. When previous actions have been unjust, restorative justice is sometimes required.
 
I deliberately had my secretary (boy that sounds posh) format the CVs and applications into a format that I'd designed that didn't include name/photos/gender... I wanted experience/work history and education if just fresh out of college/uni...
 
That is what I am asking. I am learning Python and planning on crating a project to improve my Python skills
 
user559633
9:08 PM
@Shashi you somehow managed to give no more information.
 
@Zero then why not black people, Asian people, all the different faiths, etc... etc... where does it end?
 
One issue that people argue is that women don't apply for jobs in tech because they have a perception that it's a men-only job. So that while you may have only had 7 female applicants people want to work on getting more women to apply/convincing them that they can do it.
 
user559633
web application a la client/server app? network protocol?
 
user559633
how low level do you want to go?
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd but that's still recruitment level, not placement level.
 
9:09 PM
@JonClements It ends when people are no longer discriminated against.
 
user559633
@ZeroPiraeus And by law, you can tell me that you assume that I'm racist/sexist and the state has control over my hiring?
 
@Ffisegydd That is a valid statement, but why does it matter. I think men trying to get a typically woman's job receive far more discrimination than the other way around.
 
@Zero since not everyone is using a picture of a cute puppy, I feel discriminated against... I should have more rights...
 
@tristan When I was laerning PHP 2 years ago create simple script with uses Facebook's SDK and posts on my wall. I want somthing like that with Core Python rather than using any frameworks
 
everyone can feel discriminated against / feel offended by every single bloody little thing these days
it's insanity to think that by "positive action" it'll get any better... it's discriminates against the "other side" again...
 
9:11 PM
The existing make-up of a profession has an enormous impact on perceptions and hiring practices. For example, a friend of mine is a qualified (and very good) dentist. She can't get a job in her profession here, and the reason given is always that the patients don't want a Bolivian. They don't want a Bolivian because they think Bolivians aren't up to the job, and they think that because there are no Bolivian dentists here.
 
user559633
@Shashi...so like...you want to control sockets and parse http yourself?
 
You have to break the cycle.
 
@Shashi if you want to just use core Python then you'll struggle to do anything worthwhile, Python's awesomeness comes from the libraries.
 
@Shashi First you have to understand that PHP is a WEB language and python is NOT. Python has frameworks and adaptations that allow it to do web stuff, but its not inherently a web language like php is.
 
user559633
I recommend looking into the C API to do stuff with core python.
 
9:12 PM
@ZeroPiraeus That's they're obviously idiots (sorry)
 
user559633
Also, this conversation is super specific to our respective countries :)
 
@tristan Not at all ... the state intervenes all thetime to acheive goals; that doesn't imply at all that anyone is being punished for wrongdoing; just that the current situation needs to be fixed.
 
I understood as its General purpose unlike PHP with is only Server Side.
 
@Zero people just need to stop making premature assumptions
 
rbrb going to bed
 
9:13 PM
@Jerry rbrb!
 
@JonClements But mountains of evidence shows they won't do that unless pushed.
 
I just want a project , How hard it could be for yo to suggest (I am ready to learn any framework to do that , no an issue).
 
user559633
@ZeroPiraeus so let's use my business as an example. I communicate with people via email addresses and online handles. I've had transactions in which I did not even know that I was responding to a single person, nevermind his/her/their race(s)/gender(s).
 
Apologies for frustrated comment, if that makes sens :p
 
@Shashi You can however use python to write server side cgi stuff using apache. docs.python.org/2/howto/webservers.html
 
9:14 PM
@Zero no... we don't need to push the current generation... as a species we're all so racially/faithfully/mixed now, that future generations don't care or view such things as our ancestors did
 
user559633
As double blind as you can get. If I was to be told that I had to hire certain types of people, by definition, that would be me being told to discriminate.
 
@Shashi the most easy to learn framework for web python is flask
 
user559633
@Shashi ask a real question and we can answer you.
 
user559633
you probably want flask or django even though you want to pretend that you're writing "close to the metal"
 
@Shashi most frameworks have tutorials which have you work on some project.
 
9:16 PM
@Humdinger I understand why you are suggesting Flask but I will rather go with Django as I understand ORMs and stuff inherited with PHP framework knowledge plus I am looking for something through which I can sell my skills.
Flask is more like Slim and Silex in php I guess.
 
@Shashi then make a Django site.
 
user559633
Yeah, good thing that Django is core python.
 
@JonClements Would that it were so ... bear in mind that you live in or near the most diverse part of the UK, and presumably among nice middle-class people who wouldn't dream of consciously discriminating.
 
Micro framewrok
 
user559633
And not a framework.
 
user559633
9:17 PM
@ZeroPiraeus so you'd admit that policies can be too general?
 
@tristan I'm not sure exactly what you mean ...
 
@tristan Django is core Python ? o.O Do you mean that most of the framework are ultimately Core language ?
 
@Shashi Django is not "core Python"
 
One sec... putting the kettle on... (that or checking Tristan hasn't drunk the last few beers I have left in the bridge after my brother came 'round and demolished most of a crate - which was nice of him...)
 
@JonClements How does one leave bears IN a bridge?
 
user559633
9:18 PM
@Shashi I'm fucking with you because you're contradicting the half-baked question you came in with. Python is a general purpose language. You've both stated that you want to work out of the standard library and that you have a preference for a large framework.
 
@tristan Let me rephrase myself, I said that I am ready to use Django because I was told in above comment that Python project cannot be done without choosing a library or framework.
Otherwise I was planning for a core Python project that way It would have improved my Python skill
 
You probably could do it without using a framework, but you will spend weeks/months on something that with a framework would take days.
If you choose to use Django then you will learn some Python as you learn Django.
 
user559633
@ZeroPiraeus nevermind, I'm tapping out. I don't really care for this topic because it forces dumb shit into our industry and creates rifts between people that want to project the image of caring about some social warrior shit and people that earnestly don't care about race/gender/whatever-other-trivialities
 
@Shashi if you just want some basic projects: knightlab.northwestern.edu/2014/06/05/…
@Shashi If you want a core web based project that mock php style web pages, then you can use cgi (see my previous comment)
 
@Humdinger Exactly this is something I want but I need a web project. Is it possible to improve on Python skill with coding Django ?
 
9:23 PM
Yes.
 
Python is core to django, but django is not core to python
 
@tristan Heheheh ... the old "I'm quitting now but insist on getting the last word in" gambit, eh? :-) I'm not interested in projecting any kind of image (except of a ridiculously badass and well-read individual), honest.
 
@Humdinger then any quick suggestion for Django project rather than boring Blog and stuff that I have done tons of time with PHP.
Just tell me one project that is interesting and I am off to that :)
 
@Shashi How about a quick Poll application? docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/intro/tutorial01
 
To be fair... if I read correctly, I think @Zero was alluding that since I was raised in an age where this stuff was not acceptable, and in/near quite possibly the largest multi-cultural/multi-faith city in the world... I may be blind to seeing the other point of view, that other people are capable of seeing
 
9:26 PM
How can we tell you a project that's interesting when we don't know what you're interested in?
 
user559633
no, i'll read your response @ZeroPiraeus, it's just this is an endless back and forth
 
@Shashi Your question is somewhat subjective because we dont understand what you consider interesting, nor do we know your full history and background.
 
@JonClements I wouldn't say "blind" - you've always struck me as a thoughtful and observant person - but our environment dictates what we get to look at.
 
Start suggesting few projects from your side.
 
DSM
@Ffisegydd: but if he could write down a list of things that he was interested in, he could just choose the first and then he wouldn't need us. So I think we've reached a stalemate.
 
9:27 PM
@Humdinger
 
@DSM I agree which is why I think it's ridiculous.
 
@Zero kind words - thank you mate - ditto.
 
Similarly, I've never been more than tangentially responsible for hiring, and I'm sure that red tape can be a royal PITA for those who are, however justified the reasoning behind it.
 
@Zero @tristan we'll call a close to this discussion now... sorry for me starting it, it's one of those things I get het up about, and it didn't need to be here... apologies to all the room members
 
user559633
9:29 PM
that's okay
 
Agreed - I'll shut up now ;-)
 
DSM
@Ffisegydd: what's always seemed odd to me is that I tend to only finish projects I'm really interested in finishing, whether because they're supercool or because I need them. The odds of me finishing something someone randomly suggested are pretty low. Maybe I'm unusual, though.
 
user559633
since we started it, i got so impassioned that i finally hired that woman with a phd that i had been stalling in the hopes that a brony would apply
 
How many of you are in office and chatting while work ? :p
 
@Shashi I'm always in the office and chatting
 
9:30 PM
It's 2230 here.
 
@JonClements and @tristan btw what I was up to last night (morning) it is officially called the "bit-masking-technique" 00 in case anyone cares about the name ;)
 
user559633
it's 1730 here and i'm always working.
 
btw cabbage to all
 
user559633
OOOOOh bit masking, thanks
 
@Peter yup - bit masking
 
9:30 PM
cbg @PeterVaro
 
DSM
EDT for the win!
 
@Peter oh come on, I did a great job for being pinged and woken up at 1am, then explaining basics to you :)
 
@JonClements 110110h bit masking, surely?
 
Its 03:01 here and I work in night shifts.
 
@JonClements umm.. most likely giving me time to figure out myself, but yeah ;)
 
9:32 PM
I think the world needs to all use a standard time. Away with time zones
 
anyway it was interesting, and thanks for mentoring/monitoring ;)
 
@Shashi sounds cool... I work when 1) not sleeping.... struggling to think of a 2) here...
 
@JonClements what do you think about this, as a return -- sadly no lyrics, I know, but still:
 
@JonClements you have flexibility for that , Here in India there is too much competition so we cannot be rigid on time schedules.
 
@Peter awesome driving music
 
9:34 PM
@JonClements wait till 1:13
 
Plus I am working in company which only works in PHP :p If you know what I mean :p
 
user559633
where's the drop @PeterVaro? this is bullshit
 
@Shashi I feel for you :(
 
anyway, I would say it is a nice driving music, however, I can't drive..
@tristan you don't like it?
 
user559633
[i'm just kidding like the unfunny jerk i am]
 
9:35 PM
I found it yesterday night (today morning) on my very very old harddrive
 
I think tristan is making fun of the modern music craze where every song has at least 5 drop beats
 
and Jon was the first one to popped into my mind to show this to
 
user559633
exactly @Humdinger.
 
not the best song I've ever heard, but it has its moments
 
@tristan its at 1:06
 
9:36 PM
Is there someone who transitioned from PHP to Python?
 
user559633
Yes @Shashi. I did.
 
This is my ring tone at the moment: youtube.com/…
 
user559633
19th best choice I ever made.
 
user559633
That's a beautiful ring tone
 
@tristan whats the 3rd?
 
user559633
9:37 PM
 
@Peter but it's also a great bit of driving music
 
WOW, So then I can do that too :) , I was little bit skeptical how would I explain this in my Python interview why I switched to Python ?
 
user559633
@Humdinger getting a robotic arm
 
@tristan does that improve or decrease your programming efficiency?
 
user559633
@Shashi because PHP is a toolbox full of tools that work in unpredictable ways?
 
user559633
9:38 PM
@Humdinger I am Programming.
 
@tristan I have this as ringtone from 0:20 for 10 years now:
 
user559633
Jokes aside, my robotic arm slows down my programming speed because I regularly put my hand through the laptop.
 
I believe that is good and you that is also the reason I am planning for a switch.
I am just not enjoying PHP anymore
most of the time I am forced to do task which are boring.
 
That is good. Because PHP is a cancer
 
omfg... you can buy toy falcors
 
user559633
9:39 PM
PHP is the language of oppression.
 
@Humdinger @tristan ha ha true
 
brb - ebaying
 
DSM
One day I'll have enough money I can just see that things exist and then purchase them.
 
user559633
What are you e-buying?
 
user559633
 
9:40 PM
@Shashi If you read up on the history of PHP you will realzie it was never SUPPOSED to even be a language. It was a macro-type of html for "Personal Home Pages" hence PHP
 
@tristan How many years you have worked in PHP ? I know its personal question but I believe you won't mind telling it.
 
user559633
All of the years.
 
@tristan ahh damn, wrong video: so, I have this one from 9:19
 
@Shashi It evolved into a language and continues to evolve like cancer
 
9:41 PM
@Humdinger Ya I agree, It was more of a personal script for Rasmus than a langauge, now the PHP community is trying too hard to bring it in the list of True progamming language.
 
@Humdinger it was a thin wrapper around C to make CGI easier
 
user559633
PHP is a decent language. It's decently fast and beginners can stand up test pages quickly.
 
user559633
@PeterVaro that's pretty great
 
@tristan and the big one , hosting and development is cheap
 
Hosting is cheap now anyway
 
9:43 PM
@tristan how do you define decently fast? In what way is PHP fast?
 
@tristan that's a bit altered version of the original John Coltrane composition, which is one of the most influential and power suits ever composed
 
weird question, but would it be possible to find all tables in a sqlalchemy database that subclass a specific class?
 
@JonClements For PHP and .NET only. In India there is no hosting provider which provides cheap hosting fot Python or ROR for that matter.
 
A Love Supreme is a studio album recorded by John Coltrane's quartet in December 1964 and released by Impulse! Records in February 1965. It is generally considered to be among Coltrane's greatest works, as it melded the hard bop sensibilities of his early career with the free jazz style he adopted later. The quartet recorded the album in one session on December 9, 1964, at the Van Gelder Studio in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. Coltrane's home in Dix Hills, Long Island, has been suggested as the site of inspiration for A Love Supreme. == Music == The album is a four-part suite, broken up ...
 
I've always found development in PHP (especially maintenance) a lot harder - and since human cost is always more than it cost... it doesn't scale (imho anyway)
@Shashi you can get a server for $5 a month now for linux based stuff...
 
9:44 PM
@Shashi any company that hosts PHP should be able to host python whether they say they do or not. Most PHP servers use apache, which also understands python and django
 
user559633
@Humdinger runtime speed is really decent. i've found it to be considerably faster than ruby
 
@JonClements I agree, Maintenance is something that makes me hate PHP.
 
user559633
@corvid do you have access to the sqlalchemy models or just the data?
 
@Humdinger I know , but companies here in India are lazy enough that they just through PHP and don't install Django there or any other Python library for that matter.
you have to opt VPS for that
 
I spent close enough to 3 months taking a 190k line PHP script and it's ended up as just 2.5k lines of Python code, and 9 templates
 
user559633
9:46 PM
sure, because india is still the place for outsourcing, so it gets all the java, php crap projects
 
@tristan Models too. What I did was make a CRUDMixin, and now I want to moderate who can create, update, delete, read certain tables if that makes sense
 
@Humdinger Indeed, if you assume they use mod_cgi or mod_python... but that's not the way to really do it
 
user559633
oh, then you can just look at the classes for the models @corvid
 
@tristan JAVA is more of a High Paying job in India but here things work very different. If you don't a a CS degree it is very rare that you will land a JAVA job.
 
@Shashi I find that as well... (not just for Java)... Q: "Do you have a CS degree", A: "no, been doing the job for 20 years"...
that normally works out well enough
 
9:48 PM
@JonClements Here you will not be even called for JAVA interview if you don't have a CS degree.
 
user559633
Java...
 
@tristan I dont know how accurate this data is, but according to the last demographic, ruby is faster than php: udemy.com/blog/modern-language-wars
@Shashi That is typically the case because JAVA is usually for enterprise level code.
 
user559633
@Humdinger I'm talking my anecdote, not someone else's anecdote
 
@tristan Oh ok. Good to know
 
user559633
i'm going to throw a stroke if we keep capitalizing java like it's an acronym
 
user559633
9:50 PM
heh enterprise
 
user559633
"code that was written in between a lot of meetings"
 
JAVA
 
@Humdinger I really hate the concept, why not choose programmers based on their skill rather than degree. Altough I have Graduation in IT (.NET and C was our main focus there) but still they want pure CS Engg. degree.
 
user559633
the global "they?"
 
@Shashi Because enterprises need to validate that you have the theoretical background and academic ability. At an enterprise job, it is not about pure skill, it is more than that. If they just wanted your hard-skills they would hire a consultant
 
9:52 PM
ahhhh, you guys are true programmers :p
noticing they :p
Do you guys know about TCS ?
 
@Shashi It is kind of like how law firms only hire people from top schools. Ya, you might know law and have skill, but its about work-ethic, ability to brown-nose, and desire to be the best. Your school degree validates those things, as well as certifies your theoretical knowledge
@Shashi No, what is TCS?
 
user559633
The generic outsourcing company?
 
Yes @tristan you got it.
 
user559633
What do I win for recognizing the acronym of yet another soulless consulting group that churns out mediocre work?
 
Its a company which hires only on Degree basis and they trains non- programmers to be programmer. They have wired concept.
 
user559633
9:57 PM
It's all about billable hours on a project. That's pretty standard.
 
@tristan Really TCS people are that bad, from what I have heard they are really good programmers
 
user559633
It's always a mixed bag, but you make money running a consulting firm by pitching pair programming, agile, and extreme programming to a client and then hiding your noobies behind a few good devs.
 
user559633
10 person project? 1 senior, 3 juniors, 1 project manager, 3 qa, 2 misc. people.
 
@tristan aahhh. I got it.
 
user559633
If you just put 2 senior people on the project and had them get it done in a month, you'd miss billing for 8 headcount and 11 months of refactors
 
9:59 PM
Its impossible for consultants to produce anything above sub-par work just due to the nature of the beast
 
user559633
<--- consultant.
 
user559633
My work is regularly well above par.
 
Are you freelance, or agency?
 
@tristan So who are consultants for that matter ?
because the word is too diverse
can you please explain.
 
user559633
Run my own consulting firm :)
 
user559633
10:01 PM
Consultant = non-employee workers
 
@tristan really? How many people work there?
 
user559633
two of us as anchors, subcontract to N-freelancers based on load
 
what's the website ?
 
user559633
Against rules to promote, but you could easily find it.
 
interesting... Do you bill per-project?
 
user559633
10:03 PM
Depends entirely.
 
Got it :)
 
@tristan umm... can't remember the equation, but the mix of management/lead/senior/intermediate/junior/trainees you put on a project affects the project substantially
 
@tristan How do you overcome the black-hole-project dilemma while still producing above par?
 
user559633
I'll bill per engagement if I know it's going to be a cluster-f, bill per project with milestones as deliverables as a standard, bill per hour if it's digging them out of a shithole
 
user559633
@JonClements yeah, i don't want to out them, but there's one global consulting firm that has that formula down. they will just drain your bank account while training their people.
 
10:05 PM
Do you ask for full code-closure?
 
user559633
@Humdinger How do you mean?
 
user559633
That's the point of defining deliverables and sign-off.
 
@tristan I agree on this, I have been with people who learn experimenting on real world projects.
 
user559633
"i consider Project Duck to be complete when it can quack a hundred times a day and eat a loaf of bread"
 
I mean companies which train while taking projects that they can't handle and they train their employees with that project.
 
10:07 PM
@tristan I bill at 40 hours or milestones, depending on client
 
user559633
oh, that's engagement billing in which you bill over the lifetime of the project at headcount.
 
@tristan A lot of consultants do not have access to all the codes, but only a small portion if any. They often must fix problems while "in a box". full code-closure is where you get access to anything the project touches
 
@Humdinger that's what NDA's are for
 
user559633
yeah @Humdinger, that's back to getting your contract right and sticking to it. i bill for time i spend sitting on my hands because someone is being withholding
 
user559633
if i'm supposed to interface against X, i interface against X and deliver.
 
user559633
10:08 PM
@JonClements yeah, i internally do 40h weeks and set milestones accordingly
 
I invoiced 98 hours last week though :(
vaguely remember getting some sleep and chat in
 
Interesting. To be honest I have often debated switching to consultant work. But have often seen the frustrations other consultants have
 
@Humdinger pick your clients wisely - you don't get sick pay/holidays - if you don't work, you don't get paid
 
user559633
It's good and bad. I have a pretty big contract coming up that will make me very happy because I'll be able to open strong by just throwing hours at it, then it will taper off into a low-volume support contract.
 
Are you constrained more by hours or calender time?
 
user559633
10:11 PM
oh, and the code quality thing -- that's about scoping correctly.
 
user559633
hours.
 
so you never have a deadline on day X and have to work 90 hour weeks?
 
user559633
if i know that i have a client for 6 months, i'll hire someone on to handle the work
 
user559633
@Humdinger scoping correctly.
 
user559633
if i have to do 90 hour weeks, i yammed up or the client yammed up. if it's the later, i'm billing for it.
 
user559633
10:12 PM
and if i come up short when a client asks for me to do a 90 hour week, there is no way that i'm going to take a loss on the exchange.
 
@tristan man you must be good at estimating. That is my weakest aspect of programming
 
user559633
3:1
 
@Humdinger over time - you just learn
 
user559633
it's all about learning how bad you are at estimating and then learning your compensating factor.
 
I am lucky to work at a company that has a no estimate policy. It is basically a "get it done when you can" and keep track of black-hole projects.
 
user559633
10:14 PM
if my gut is to say "Yeah! That's a 24 hour hackathon!" then I'll reply with an estimate of 2 weeks
 
@tristan what type of projects you mostly take ?
 
being a programmer isn't just that - it's about understanding what the company's trying to achieve, what they have, how it works, how it could be better, and understanding their structure and systems...
 
WEB ?
 
user559633
@Shashi web design, infrastructure planning, build automation
 
I never undertake a project without having met the person who's going to sign the contract
 
user559633
10:15 PM
wrote a custom protocol as a prototype once
 
user559633
^^ that's big. and holding him accountable at the end of the day
 
user559633
the lesson of not letting a contract slip into bureaucracy is really a one-time lesson
 
How often do you have to take legal matters into your own hands?
 
@JonClements That is what generates more customers, Understanding what client is trying to accomplish is the key its not just delivering something that has been written in contract.
 
user559633
i haven't had to yet, but i did spend ~30 hours going back and forth with a corporate lawyer once
 
10:17 PM
@Shashi yup... normally meet up, see their offices, have a chat, take 'em to lunch (if I think it's going to be plausible else I've already left), then whatever
then we discuss my T&C's, NDA's and various sorts of SLA
work out either a fixed project cost, hourly cost, milestone cost etc...
 
user559633
i'm going to take off
 
user559633
later all
 
well @JonClements @tristan thanks for the answers.
 
@tristan rbrb - see ya later mate
 
user559633
no worries @Humdinger -- let me know if you have more.
 
10:20 PM
thanks @tristan for your time :)
 
user559633
i'm hoping that next spring, i can hire people to do all the actual work for my company
 
user559633
nw @Shashi good luck on the switch.
 
user559633
see ya @JonClements :)
 
:)
 
umm... bit peckish... jam on toast is in order me thinks, brb
 
10:24 PM
Bye Bye fellas, I am off :)
 
@Shashi hopefully see you around
thanks for popping by - great to meet you
 
@JonClements Sure, it was great with you guys, Love PYTHON COMMUNITY :)
 
@ZeroPiraeus I feel like there is probably a lot more toast on the ceiling
 
You may be right ...
 
10:47 PM
...I may be crazy, but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for?
@Zero referring to youtube.com/watch?v=Jo9t5XK0FhA in case of any doubt :)
 
Does anyone know why Reddit uses a unix timestamp instead of the post id to calculate hot ranking, since both are incremental?
Since they're calculating: ( log10( abs(ups-downs) ) + sign ) + ( timestamp / 45000 ) the difference is always going to look no more than a few numbers
and the output is mostly: 31324, 31325, 31327, 31328, 31322...
There doesn't seem to be that much variance to warrant the use of a unix timestamp over a simple incremental id I think?
 
@Moderateur ask the designers/developers of reddit?
 
@JonClements Are they even reachable somewhere?
 
no idea... I have the same resources available to me that you have... use them and try to find out? :)
 
@JonClements I don't actually know that song ... will just finish listening to Starship ...
 
11:00 PM
@JonClements guess I just wished to quickly discuss with someone with the same or more abilities than me in these matters because I'm coding this part right now. I'll see if I can reach them
maybe someone could've said if there was an issue in my logic or something :)
 
@Moderateur I have no idea why they use that system of ordering... and timestamps are generally not a good thing to involve in resolvable end points anyway... it's a successful and high load site, only they can explain their reasoning
 
Sent the message, let's hope I sent it to the right person
@JonClements As far as timestamps go, by seeing the code I can rule out performance related issues. It seems either generated with Pyrex or Cython
The "stuff" is originally a normal date, but is converted to a unix timestamp at the end anyway
 
Not being rude... but it's your issue... I don't have time to look at the code... hopefully you'll get a response :)
 
@JonClements I was just showing you to what function I was referring to. A 12 lines function ;) Thank you anyway.
I thought we speaked about Python in this room.
 
we do... but not everyone has the time or inclination to look at code bases
 
11:20 PM
@JonClements Man it was a 12 liner function even my niece understands and I didn't even ask you to debug it or something, just discussing.
 
oh far enough... I just generally refuse to open code when I don't know how big it's going to be :)
 
@JonClements You're right, I should've posted the code right here, sorry for that :)
 

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