last day (181 days later) » 

8:21 AM
so now I have a lander that weighs 50% less
and I'm not gonna dump my transfer stage
and increased the lander dV by 1000 in total.
 
yeah I see your thinking, only land with that most vital weight, but unless you are really well planned, you are almost certainly going to waste more fuel redocking then you are saving from not just landing with return fuel.
 
yeah I see that now
 
it's can be good if you have a big tank with say a bank of nuclear engines that will transfer you from planet to planet on some grand tour
but for just a mun landing, don't bother
 
I heard that minmus was a lot easier
 
maybe have a landing stage and a return stage, and leave behind the landing stage
Minmus is so much easier
does not take much more fuel for the transfer, and you don't even need a proper lander
 
8:34 AM
I don't have a proper lander :P
 
first time I did it eventually fell over, but I was able to take of by running along the ground :P
 
I also fell over
something exploded and I think it was a fuel tank :P
gotta try this one again.
 
I'll have to show a picture of the mun lander I made, I think it looks rather cool as a lander. Though it is not built for a return journey... maybe if I had a docking port under it and tried minimus...
 
right now I have a 12-engine asparagus taking me into Mun orbit
and then a much smaller lander with 2500 dv but landing is such a bitch
also there was that part in the last mission where I accidentally jettisoned what was left of the transfer stage.
I wish you could eject tanks automatically
 
might not always be a good thing though
for example, you might want to use the extra mass to help with orbital tweaking
 
8:47 AM
maybe
so now I have a transfer stage with 1kdv left in it, and a lander stage with 2.5kdv, and my orbit's periapsis is 2km
 
2km? are you mad!
and seriously, circularise first!
 
yeah, I should circularise at 2km.
 
a circular orbit will mean you have slow speed throughout, so you can drop at any point
2km is a dangerously low orbit, some mountains will be taller then that.
 
then screw it, I'll just go straight in.
 
probably safer now yeah
aim for a crater
try not to make another one though
 
8:51 AM
50km up, only 9m/s down and 4km/s across
and I have 2700dv remaining
alright
completely safe landing, not knocked over or anything, and 2300DV
 
iow, you brought too much fuel :P
 
lol
well, functional improvements to this design will be what I'm bringing to other planets, like minmus, dena, etc.
 
So yeah, I started a new game with Deadly Re-entry, but not sure if I want to keep it up
 
how deadly is re-entry
 
if you take the starting capsule, a solid boost and parachute, you will accelerate up so fast the shock heating will destroy the parachute
 
9:03 AM
seems pretty much like normal then
 
so far, I've yet to burn up on reentry, but only did a few missions so not made it into a stable orbit yet.
 
for my regular vessel I had to start bringing seven parachutes to ensure the parachutes didn't start detaching
 
good lord! how much are you trying to re-enter with?
 
it was only about 5T or less.
well to be fair, I went from 1 parachute to 7 parachutes right away cause I was sick of it.
 
I mean, one man capsule, science box, goo thing, sensors, all easily handled by one chute
that said, science box does usually break on landing...
but a girder should prevent that, or legs
 
9:08 AM
not only did mine frequently break off
what also happened is that I would land at about 8m/s and then it would fucking break anyway.
with 7 parachutes it's only 4m/s and everything always survives.
 
are you at 1x speed when deploying the chute and going past the 500m mark?
 
yep
 
is your computer made of shit?
 
nope
 
you need serious mass to rip a chute of in my experience.
 
9:10 AM
well, this time I used the last DV from my lander to slow my descent on top of the parachute
so I touched down at about 1m/s on my legs.
now I got me enough science for four t5 researches
 
get solar power man! then you can make out the SCIENCE!!!
 
I got some photoelectrics already
 
the fold out ones?
 
no
 
get them :P
they look cooler
 
9:15 AM
lol
was actually thinking about the nuclear propulsion
the extra efficiency in space would be a fine addition for some of my engines.
 
I would hold off until you want to go interplanetary
ie, Kerbin, Mun, Minmus, High solar zones all researched
And you should get all the science things first, so that you can ensure when do go to some other body, you can do everything in one trip.
 
I don't even see any other science things except the goo and the pod.
also, landing on Minmus is the last thing to do- I've already been to high solar
 
there is a pressure gauge, gravitron detector, temperature doofer to get as well.
some acoustic thing too IIRC
 
the wiki implied they just measure things, rather than actually give you science.
 
must be out of date, they give you science
things that give you science and where
 
9:23 AM
not functioning in a vacuum means basically all of the more available high-science areas.
I'm not gonna go around Kerbin scrubbing for 9 science at a time taking temperature readings
hmm, my new rocket exploded :(
 
9:41 AM
it's worth more when on other bodies
don't forget, if you land, eva report and surface sample
 
yeah I did that
maybe I should just establish a refuelling depot in orbit.
then I won't have to lift off so much fuel from Kerbin every time.
 
docking can be a real PITA
 
hmm
 
though I think I have finally worked out how to get two ships together. But yet to unlock docking ports so far in career mode.
 
here's what I'm working on right now
the innermost six are nuclear engines for in-orbit use and the outer six are Skippers
controlling it is about OK since I added on a bunch of RCS thrusters but the structure isn't strong enough and falls apart a couple km up
I'm hesitant to add e.g. struts in case that makes separation later difficult
 
9:59 AM
also, theory: fuel takes longer to reach engines which are further away (using fuel ducts)
 
add struts, struts everywhere
 
lol
 
they auto-magically disintegrate when you decouple
 
I wrapped the whole fucking thing in struts and that issue seems to be solved.
now I face the issue that one side of the rocket seems to be using more fuel than the other, even though they're symmetrical.
 
You also need to be careful with the 'piping fuel the core rockets' approach. Ideally, when you drop the outer layers, the remaining rockets are all full of fuel and have enough thrust to at least maintain speed
you probably meesed up the fuel lines
Also thinking about the ISP
 
10:09 AM
nope, they're identical, at least in terms of connections.
turns out that atomic rockets are only good for 60 thrust though, they can't even lift their own weight + a pair of FL800s :P
 
nuclear engines are terrible in atmosphere, so probably not worth having them running at all
 
I swapped them out for TL-45
annoyingly, TL-30 wouldn't fit.
 
wouldn't fit? they are same dia'
 
the Skipper rockets are too big
there wasn't enough space in the center for TL-30 but TL-45 fit fine.
 
you not got tri-coupler?
 
10:15 AM
I do, but don't see how it's applicable
 
I've found three of those starter engines gives you more thrust than one skipper and at better ISP
win win
plus, it looks cooler :P
three engines are more than one engine
 
you'd also need a fuckoff large rocket :P
looks like it's wrapped in spider webbing, lol
gonna go for max apoapsis with this version and then compare to previous version
 
@DeadMG huh? I think you missed the point
 
well, surely there must be some limit on the maximum size of just adding more and more radial engines
 
you have a fuel tank stack like normal, but rather than end it with one skipper, you end it with three smaller engines
 
10:26 AM
OIC.
then I did totally miss that point.
 
you have the same fuel, but more thrust at better ISP than the skipper. thus, win win
and like I said, looks cooler
 
I guess that actually, expecting this to perform better than its predecessor is silly.
without the atomic engines all I really did is add some struts.
 
where you think of using the tri-coupler at the top of the stack? and hacing three fuel tank stack all the way down, with one engine per stack?
start over from scratch
it's all to easy to try to solve a rocket design with more and more crap
often, the simpler rockets work better all round
 
I dunno, I'm happy enough with my current asparagus design for now
I just wanted a little more push from it
 
this is for getting to Mun and back right?
 
10:32 AM
already been there.
I'm thinking of getting to the other planets in the solar system.
my previous design will probably do Minmus too
 
If you want to do interplanetary, it might well be better to do a few launches and dock in orbit.
 
5786 total m/s I got from v2.
 
Lift a main command section that can control the ship and do landings, lift a main engine block, lift some modula fuel pods
and for the love of god remember to add RCS :P
 
haven't had any need for it so far
but yes maybe later I will
 
have you docked yet?
 
10:37 AM
no
 
Try that, then see if you need RCS or not :P
hint: it's not gonna be easy
 
lol
 
you might want to make a space station first then
just to practice those things
unless you just want to do an interplanetary flyby
which could be used to drop unmanned probes all over the place.
 
not really a probe person
 
I would imagine that sooner or latter, kerbal deaths will matter
but if that was balanced with more reward for sending kerbals places...
 
10:43 AM
lol
apparently, version 1 managed to get an escape route from the Sun's orbit.
 
has it just been left drifting through space?
 
but it also achieved about 6350dv, so about 500 more than v2.
dunno
I'm still waiting to see what the game does with it when it leaves the solar system.
 
timewarp!!!
 
at maximum.
 
but I think things would just keep on going
 
10:46 AM
kerbal's in for a long ride.
 
imagine if you hit the SoI of a few planets/moons, and end up getting slingshot right back to Kerbin
 
naw passed them all by now
140 billion metres
@R.MartinhoFernandes: I got a Kerbal on solar escape velocity too.
 
I wonder if the Suns SoI ever ends... or if it just decays to a very slight amount.
 
Xeo
Wasn't there that image which shows 99999 dV needed to escape the sun?
 
the game doesn't seem to have an icon for exiting it's sphere of influence.
but I'm headed almost directly away from it now
 
10:49 AM
are you slowing down much?
 
and the line showing my orbit just... stops.
nope.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Scroll out farther :P
It's just a giant orbit
 
maybe about 2m/s^2, but I'm still heading at 6kms away from the sun.
 
Xeo
not an escape, I'd guess
 
@Xeo I am at the maximum scrolled-out-ness.
and I can see past the line's end anyway.
 
Xeo
10:49 AM
Welp, you'll see when you get there
I don't think you can escape Kerbol that easily
 
what mods you using puppy?
 
editor extensions and flight engineer
no content mods.
 
what does flight engineer do? just show those stats?
 
yep.
it can show a few more stats if you ask for them
 
The peri/apo would be handy to have on the heads up normally IMO
 
10:52 AM
what, -104 billion metres? :P
 
it's boring having to look at the map view to see what they are, and hard to actually see too
 
personally
I think map view and staging should be merged.
I don't see why I shouldn't see stages from the map view
 
Xeo
Kinda annoying, yeah
 
and then just turn "staging" into "Scroll in further".
 
Xeo
At least you can watch your current stage's resources while in map mode
 
10:53 AM
I didn't know that.
 
Xeo
Telling you when to switch back to advance to the next stage
 
although with Flight Engineer, you can see all stages resources in all modes.
 
Xeo
Upper right corner, "resources" button
 
@DeadMG again, it is annoying isn't it
 
and apop/periap as well
 
10:54 AM
@DeadMG top right
 
still
 
by default, it is the entire ship, but you can select just this stage
 
I think the main areas that need improving on are
 
here we go :P
 
the editor is not very friendly
 
10:55 AM
mr two days :P
 
the landing-on-other-bodies interface is poor compared to much of the rest
and frankly, I really wish that timewarp would instantly cut from 100,000 to 1, or that you could set it to automatically turn off.
it's super handy feature, but hard to make good use of because you can't just wait for the bits you want to warp past to be over
 
yeah, the time warp slowly dropping down really is a PITA, has caught me out a few times
 
422 billion metres altitude from Kerbol now
 
@DeadMG 'Kerbos'?
 
and still increasing at 5.5km/s
 
Xeo
10:56 AM
*Kerbol
@DeadMG I'm considering getting MechJeb since it shows actual distance to the surface
and only for that
 
@Xeo Flight Engineer does too.
 
yeah, radar altitude would be a nice addition to the main game
 
MechJeb only shows updated to 0.21, but FE can have some nasty FPS issues I didn't notice before.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG press unwarp 6 times :P
 
hmm
so is it me, or are many of the other types of engines quite weak and uninteresting except the basic liquid ones?
I looked into stuff like atomic and jet engines, and they seem to have much poorer thrust
 
10:59 AM
some of the smaller engines have beter ISP
 
so even once you accounted for their better efficiency
 
Xeo
Jet is for flight
 
what does ISP even stand for
 
jet engines and atomic engines are very high ISP
it's basically a measure of how fuel efficient the engine is
 
hm
well, being twice as fuel efficient isn't very helpful if you have to burn for twice as long to get the burn you need
and TL-30 -> atomic is more like a quarter as much thrust
 
11:00 AM
say one engines is 50kn thrust, at 100 ISP, but another is 25kn Thrust at 1000 ISP you are going to get ALOT more DV overall
@ScottW obviously
20 IIRC
 
yeah, but you're talking about 220KN at 350ISP to 60KN at 800ISP.
 
or free if you are dirty scumbag
 
I don't know exactly what ISP means and how it relates to KN, though.
 
I think it factors in thrust though...
 
but 220 * 350 is nearly double 60 * 800
so unless ISP is already after normalizing for thrust
 
even then, the thing can't lift enough fuel off the ground to be seriously worth it
 
it's not meant for that though
use it for transfers
I think you can think of ISP as "delta V per unit of fuel"
 
850 billion metres and still rising at 5.3km/s
time to go actually land on someshit with it
 
is this the new rocket you have made? or that one you sent into deep space?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG They're not meant for lifting, which the thrust should tell you
 
11:11 AM
the first one.
the new one was a bit worse, embarassingly.
oh wait, I remember one change I needed to make.
typical
make one change to the inside of the rocket -> have to rebuild the whole thing
 
Xeo
Feels like programming in C++, eh?
 
no
 
@Xeo ¬_¬ that has no place here
 
hmm.
you know, virtually all the thrust in space is done by the middle three engines.
I could try replacing just them with atomics instead of the entire inner shell.
now let's see about landing on minmus
huh
the time is flashing red and orange, and I can't timewarp faster than about x100
and the timewarp gui is red.
does it hate me?
 
Xeo
11:39 AM
Physical warp?
@DeadMG Can't go faster than 100x below 120.000km
 
I wasn't
there was a part of the orbit that was, though.
 
Xeo
and if you're in an atmosphere, you can only do physics warp
 
I messed up the periapsis and it was 65km
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Nah, only relevant where you currently are
 
the mission elapsed time changes colour based on how well your computer is able to timewarp
the timewarp arrows change to just four when in atmosphere, they are yellare 3X warp, and red at 4x... presumable to warn you things are derpy
 
11:47 AM
musta been cause my periapsis was too low
 
Xeo
@thecoshman It's physics warp in atmosphere
which can fuck things up majorly
 
does not matter, it only matters where you currently are.
@Xeo same difference :P
 
I was certainly not in atmo at the time.
800k altitude
 
Xeo
Was any of your other ships close at that time?
 
but yeah, you can only warp at certain speeds as you get higher
@Xeo that doesn't matter does it?
 
Xeo
11:49 AM
dunno
 
no
I've never gone with more than one ship out at a time
 
Xeo
would be weird if it didn't tbh - otherwise, why restrict your warp speed if you are close?
@DeadMG I managed to rescue my first ship after coming back from solar orbit :D
Turns out I forgot it still had some fuel
just no charge to turn
so I just burned while it was turned retrograde
 
heh
I had a similar experience in my first solar orbit
 
Xeo
went beautifully
 
although back then I didn't even know it cost charge to turn
 
Xeo
11:51 AM
Also got me the science needed to get nuclear engine
 
yeah, you learn that the hard way :P
 
yeah
 
Xeo
@DeadMG I kinda thought that the command pod from my solar orbit would never ever manage to survive that reentry
 
now all my ships have photovoltaics on the primary component
 
Xeo
It charged at Kerbin with 3000m/s, straight down
@DeadMG Kerbin was being a dick and staying right between me and the sun at one point :|
So I had a nice solar eclipse
but no EC
 
11:54 AM
some engine can generate power during burns too
 
Xeo
@thecoshman yeah, but I had no fuel to try that
 
also IME you'd need a lot of fuel and you'd throw yourself off your flight plan
 
@Xeo o_0 but fuel to burn straight down?
@DeadMG huh?
 
Xeo
@thecoshman different rockets
 
ah ok then
 

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