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4:00 AM
And this is all my own personal preference. If you don't want to code that way, don't. Just don't be surprised when other people point out that your code is ugly.
 
Awesome, that's half of what I want to hear.
 
@Anfurny Ok maybe your not.
 
It's not really personal preference when nobody else can work on the code without rewriting it
sure the code makes sense to you but it's because YOU wrote it
 
The other half is just if we can all understand that the other people in this room, and other rooms have different ideas and ideals of code (both practical and aesthetic) and that if we can stop arguing about it every time somebody asks an unrelated question we'll all have a lot more fun and learn a lot more
 
SoC is not aesthetics
 
4:02 AM
Using .length in for loops is not aesthetics
 
I can easily make up a principle of "code proximity" that says all code that is run by a certain component (say input type = button) should be near that component (say in an onclick)
 
he does not know what SoC is
 
and I can even make a wikipedia about it, and maybe if I have a twitter cult following get a book out there endorsing it.
So, yes separation of concerns is kind of subjective.
 
if the important things are in place, I have no problem working on code with \n{ or { .. who cares about that shit as long as it's consistent all the way through
 
@Anfurny ITS NOT AN UNRELATED QUESTION
 
4:03 AM
Especially when there are so many different things to call a concern, and so many different measurements of "Separation"
 
@Anfurny bullshit.
Actually \n{ in js is rage. It goes heavily against the community and is rage in return statements because of semi colon insertion. There is a good reason to use {
 
code proximity principle is way fast to code!
 
And also seperations of concerns is important
 
I no rite?! it's the new of the new! omg @Bart
 
@Raynos, I didnt specifically say javascript. I very rarely see \n{ style in javascript anyway
 
4:05 AM
im with you anfurny...
 
Haha, you're supporting your argument with your blog post? (which I had already)
It's not a bad post btw
 
@Esailija this is javascript room
@Anfurny not supporting my argument
 
But the fact is, a lot of times principles conflict with each other.
 
Linking my blog posts is not linking a point of authority
It's linking an argument I dont want to repeat over and over
@Anfurny what conflicts with seperations of concerns.
 
For example, separation of concerns doesn't apply so well in a lot of high-performance environments for one.
 
4:06 AM
Actually fuck that.
I don't need these trolls. And high performance my ass.
 
@Anfurny What high-performance environment are you in that needs to just ignore SoC?
 
I never said "just ignore"
 
What high-performance environment are you in that would make SoC a hindrance?
 
Well, let's say some day you work at a website that has 13 million users, and when you loop, you only want to loop once
 
how many ppl work at SO ?
 
4:08 AM
but you need to display several rows of data, and calculate a total.
 
unroll that loop for 3 nanoseconds bro
 
I guarantee you that the site with 13 million users has separation of concerns
 
Either your calculation of the total will go inside the same loop that displays output (not true SOC) or you'll run the loop twice.
 
Or I'll just create a query that calculates the total for me and still only loop once
 
You can't guarantee me anything. High performance sites use all kinds of caching that make super-super global variables that persist for every single user (it's called memcached)
 
4:10 AM
Your example has no bearing on SoC what-so-ever. Looping multiple times !== SoC
 
@Anfurny ...
 
Work at one of those places and then start guaranteing me stuff.
Yes?
 
memcached breaks SoC
 
Your full of bullshit.
 
Well, it also breaks isolation, and a million other programming principles @Esailija
 
4:11 AM
Everyone knows that if you need to hand optimize real performance bottlenecks no rules apply
 
That's what I was saying. @Raynos
 
If it looks like a troll, walks like a troll, and quacks like a troll, then stop feeding the damned duck !
 
I'm not sure how you can say I'm full of bullshit, then totally agree with what I just said.
 
wasn't that what is all about @raynos ?
 
When did we say "Seperations of concerns" is a silver bullet that always apply
I never said any programming methodology is a silver bullet
and anyone who says deserves to be hit
 
4:12 AM
wtf
 
Anfurny
For example, separation of concerns doesn't apply so well in a lot of high-performance environments for one.
 
There are always edge cases
 
But the fact is, a lot of times principles conflict with each other.
 
this is not the write machine code yourself room
 
The problem is though. You shouldnt worry about edge cases unless your competent
 
4:13 AM
Are you saying I'm not competent?
 
You should apply the methodology to most cases and fix it when it leaks
 
yes, we are saying that
 
even silver bullets can miss the target if you are not a great shooter.
 
No, I'm saying we should tell people to "use methodology X" because the cases it doesn't apply are far too rare to bother mentioning it
And if you do bother mentioning them then those noobs will misinterpret your edge cases and not use methodology X for stupid reason Y
We do the same in science
We give science noobs an incomplete/broken abstractions
Cause they can't handle the truth.
 
That's... pretty presumptuous of scientists
 
4:14 AM
no site will write their code on such a low level that you can't have SoC... wtf? how the hell does memcached break SoC? Am I doin' it wrong?
 
oh yes, I saw that movie... the rabbit hole :)
 
That's a politician's job.
 
More to the point, I can't list the edge cases for methodologies. It's beyond my level of skill and knowledge
 
@Anfurny muahahahaa
 
All I can says is "X works for me most of the time"
 
4:15 AM
have you learned physics ?
are you even old enough to learn physics ?
 
@Esailija Memcached violates "isolation" and other principles
Nobody minds you saying that
 
And nobody minds you answering a question and saying "Here's a link on SOC if you're interested"
 
so we shouln't use databases either?
 
but nobody likes to get into a big argument about style OR pragmatics when they're in the middle of debugging their app.
And if you really want to get people to use principles like SOC you need to make a persuasive case on how it will make their life easier in the long term instead of being angry at them.
Which can be done for a number of principles.
 
4:17 AM
@Anfurny stop hitting that point.
Its perfectly clear that when the answer to a question is "It breaks SOC"
then you bloody well want them to know about SOC
 
One sec...
Okay
so, purmou wasn't asking about SOC
 
in PHP, yesterday, by Anfurny
True, Facebook invented the scaling application... basically you had to buy 1 server per user before facebook.
 
He was asking something different and somebody said " @Purmou Do you understand the previous issue of inlining your javascript events into an HTML element?"
Which, if I understand wasn't directly related to his problem.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
how do I overcome the instinct to feed a troll
 
@Anfurny he was asking "why is onclick bad"
I have said this 5 time
 
4:26 AM
Well I never see him directly asking about it.
I see him admitting to not knowing what it is
THen saying @Incognito are we talking about onclick here? Because that's not what I was upset about
 
Wrong person -.-
 
Then going on a rant about how much he hates teresko.
 
btw , you owner ( or something like it ) , cannot you kickban him ?
 
No.
 
No?
 
4:35 AM
1 message moved to jQuery
Problem solved \o/
1 message moved to jQuery
<_<
 
5:23 AM
Anyone know how to have polylines with arrows that can show direction in google maps?
any library for that?
 
6:03 AM
posted on December 09, 2011 by Vasilis

responsive design ~ nieuws ~ eend It’s not hard to convince nerds of the value of responsive design: just let them scale their browser window and they will end up in an endless resize loop, while shouting “Wow!”. It’s a bit harder to convince people though, you need actual arguments. Do you need to convince people? Just point them to this excellent (Dutch) article by M

 
 
1 hour later…
7:24 AM
.. so typical
 
its a javascript room, of course off topic stuff will be flagged
 
Its 2:30am on the east coast and the chat has been dead for hours
 
well i just got here a lil bit ago
 
Ok, do you need help?
 
no , he's just trolling/whoring for attention
 
7:27 AM
if node.js qs are going to get flagged and moved
which are actual javascript
...
 
Is there not a room for Node.js?
 
is there not a room for casual chat?
 
Well, petition the powers to be that all off-topic chat get binned
I think you're going a tad overboard...its not like people are clamoring to have questions answered
 
 
1 hour later…
8:43 AM
RT @ODevRel: A Christmas Present from the Opera Dragonfly Team! http://my.opera.com/dragonfly/blog/a-christmas-present-from-the-opera-dragonfly-team
 
8:54 AM
Bit flaggy in here!
 
as for "inappropriate" , i consider use of jquery even for things like drop-down menu inappropriate .. though i would not flag people for doing it
 
9:08 AM
i need a logo for my latest JS project
(stack app reminded me)
 
I seriously don't know anything about JavaScript :|, maybe it's time to pick up a book or something
 
@Reno , start by watching yuiblog.com/crockford
 
yes!
watch it while you have a console open to try some of the things
 
9:50 AM
i like second
 
67 messages, my second biggest cleanup ever. Last time you guys were talking bout DEM FAST CARZ.
 
lol
 
good job
 
lol.
How you moved messages to other rooms?
 
Just keep the religious stuff to the general chat rooms. Unless you're implying that God is merely a script with billions of callbacks attached to onbirth and ondeath.
 
9:58 AM
You didnt get them all, though
 
@Thomas: no, I only got the messages I could reach by scrolling
 
@AndyE , why was this moved :
in Casual chat, 50 mins ago, by tereško
no , watch it while you pay full attention to it
 
@tereško: sorry, that may have just been collateral. I was clickin' wild.
 
^&*^#R moders *(*&#^$
 
10:23 AM
Thanks
 
Oh you
 
@AndyE what is your problem now?
 
For added irony, see description for casual chat.

Casual chat

This is the room for casual chat in english, hindi & gujarati....
If you don't want casual discussions moved to casual chat, don't have a room called casual chat. EOD.
 
Andy you are dumping garbage on the neighbors lawn instead of in your trash bin
That is EOD
dump the neighbors toys on the neighbors lawn. dump your trash in the trashbin
 
10:28 AM
@Thomas: there is no trash bin. Only moderators can delete messages. If you or @Lalit have a problem, I suggest you take it up on meta.
(and that is EOD) ;-)
 
@AndyE now its a last warning if now you put messages to casual chat I will dumb aal the messages in this room.
 
My reasoning is still most reasonable
 
@AndyE I already told you have many BIN rooms, so better put the unwanted messages there rather than in casual chat room.
 
but really i am only throwing in my opinion because im bored. off now.
 
4 mins ago, by Andy E
If you don't want casual discussions moved to casual chat, don't have a room called casual chat. EOD.
 
10:31 AM
2 mins ago, by Lalit Poptani
@AndyE now its a last warning if now you put messages to casual chat I will dumb aal the messages in this room.
 
oh shit we got a moderator trolls
is this like when new york gets pissed off at new jersey
because all the trash ends up in jersey
:P
 
lol
 
err
you get what i mean :)
 
10:50 AM
oh .. he's american .. that explains things
 
0
Q: Should off-topic chat messages be moved to more suitable chat rooms?

Andy E's headThis seems like a ridiculous question to ask given the existence of the message admin feature, but I managed to get sucked into a discussion about this in the chat rooms and would like some clarification. As room owners, we're given tools to move messages out of the room into a different, more s...

^ Please continue all discussion regarding your opinions on inappropriate message admin in the preceding meta question
 
11:06 AM
Can anybody helps me with Jquery?
 
I can't.
 
Your sentence has 3 ambiguities: (1)"Anybody" is general. Do you mean someone in this room, or someone in general? (2)While "helps" is nearly the correct form, it doesn't specify enough details. (3)Also linked to point (2). Do you need help with the jQuery source? Are you one of their core members in need of review, or maybe you want to understand a specific snippet in their codebase? Of course, you could also mean "something that uses jQuery doesn't work". We can't know until you tell us.
 
11:22 AM
Zirak thnx for your comment
 
Hi
 
Always glad to help.
 
I have a simple Sencha Touch question. Since the content is made entirely from JavaScript all you do is to add a link to that JS file in a regular html5 file right. So it is correct that I make one html5 and one JS file for each "page/view"?
 
@IshikawaYoshi dont ask to ask, just ask
 
CoR
Hi to all
How can I pass argument to event handler?
Only solution I have found is to request.onsuccess = function (dbn) {
return function (e) {requestSuccess(e, dbn) };
}(dbName);
Is there something better, or simpler?
 
11:28 AM
@CoR You can use bind
 
CoR
can you write simple example please
 
There's a simple example in the linked page
 
CoR
I only want to pass my param to event handler and be able to use e - event
 
Yes, and I've shown you a way to do it. Frankly, I like yours better.
 
CoR
Aaaaaaaaaaaa, thanks :)
 
11:34 AM
Nobody who can help me with Sencha Touch?
 
with what?
 
I just copy what I tried to ask for 10 minutes ago: "I have a simple Sencha Touch question. Since the content is made entirely from JavaScript all you do is to add a link to that JS file in a regular html5 file right. So it is correct that I make one html5 and one JS file for each "page/view"?"
 
@Hyperion Common things should go into a common file (or files.) You can break it up into several html pages, or do server-side magic or client-side logic for everything in a central file, though
 
So you would do inline JavaScript in the html5 file then?
I will use server side Java on this
 
No inline js. Ever. Just branch out.
 
11:41 AM
Should I write: property : value or property: value?
 
I don't see a difference
 
the space between colon
 
No. Nobody gives a rat's ass about spaces. You can write this:
var o = {
    name                     :                                                                      'value'
};
 
I know that whitespace doesn't matter, I was thinking that there may have been some convention
 
oh theres a colon way over there :D
 
11:47 AM
Conventions are personal, or when working in a team, team-wide (teamsonal?) Styling conventions don't make a difference (well, except in one case):
//there's automatic semi-colon insertion in javascript. so for example:
return 4
//becomes
return 4;

//on top of that, when no return value is given, undefined is used
return; //returns undefined

//combine the two with left-hand braces:
return
{};
//becomes
return;
{};
//when you actually meant return {}
 
ah ok
 
Aside of that, you can use all the perversions you have, as long as it doesn't break syntax rules
 
@ThomasBlobaum I try to check table cell with jQuery, and if this cell is eqal '0' then this table row should be hide, maybe you know how to do this?
 
if ($('td.myCell').text() === '0') {
$('td.myCell').parent().hide()
}
 
12:07 PM
@ThomasBlobaum thnx i try it
@ThomasBlobaum ...
 
@Zirak there's a workaround for that problem
return (
    {}
);
 
return (
{});
:D
 
yup :-)
 
0
Q: How can I improve this JavaScript DOM-manipulation data-structure/algorithm?

Niels Bom(this is a crosspost from StackOverflow, it was suggested I asked here) Goal I've got a DOM with about 70 elements on it (divs with some content) . I need to move and toggle the display of those divs quite a lot and also quite fast. The speed is one of the most important things. The trigger for...

 
12:21 PM
@AndyE There's another, more obvious workaround
 
@Feeds what a horrible mess
 
@Zirak: don't spread return statements over multiple lines?
 
You can say it like that.
 
:-)
 
12:46 PM
Why is @Raynos not around when a brother's getting trolled?
 
I should move that but the move police informs me that I may not :\
 
It wasn't casual at all. The last message was srs bsns
 
1:13 PM
@AndyE the reasonable man wins the day in court :P
 
1:55 PM
@AndyE because I nocturnal? :(
 
@Thomas: I thought it was the man with the most money winds the day in court?
 
@AndyE did we have discussions about religion? :O
 
That's only corrupt courts, or if the man with the most money uses it to find the most reasonable man
 
Did I miss out the chance to troll christians
 
@Raynos: nah we had a discussion about moving discussions about religion to somewhere better suited
 
1:57 PM
@AndyE personally I think the main is issue is that the owners of "casual chat"
consider that room to be their own private little room
with their own private little group
 
yeah, that's pretty much what I gathered too. They weren't even speaking English in there earlier.
 
For a second, I thought "Well, JavaScript is pretty exclusive too"
But then I realized there's just a hazing ritual
 
Pretty much anyway
 
Sure, we have regulars here, but we <del>troll</del>welcome new chatters with open arms.
 
Personally I dont think we are that closed
 
1:59 PM
I don't know. Sometimes we have a sort of "Idiot until proven competent" rule.
 
nah. I see new faces here all the time
 
Like I keep thinking who's this @Esailija guy, where did he come from. Your not a regular
 
@Thomas is reasonably new.
 
glare
 
@Raynos lol :P I am new to SO :(
 
1:59 PM
But I have now accepted that @Esailija isn't that bad
 

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